BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:09:58 +0000, Ron M. wrote:

HEYYYYY, it's time to break out the old "Bayliner Observations." Let's see...
(blows off dust, coughs...)

Now, NONE of these represent my personal or subjective opinions. These are
objective, factual, empirical observations I've made over 40-plus years of
boating experience. OK?


I, too cannot say I've ever owned a Bayliner, but also have over 40 yrs boating
experience. MY observation is that, if they are such crap, why are there SO MANY
of them still around after 20-30 years? Around here, any powerboat over 20 years
old is probably a ChrisCraft, Fibreform, Tolly, Campion, or, most probably, a
Bayliner.

Why haven't they sank, broken up, fallen apart or whatever "everyone" seems to
think they do?

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

Lloyd Sumpter wrote:


I, too cannot say I've ever owned a Bayliner, but also have over 40 yrs boating
experience. MY observation is that, if they are such crap, why are there SO MANY
of them still around after 20-30 years? Around here, any powerboat over 20 years
old is probably a ChrisCraft, Fibreform, Tolly, Campion, or, most probably, a
Bayliner.

Why haven't they sank, broken up, fallen apart or whatever "everyone" seems to
think they do?

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36


Sheer numbers made.

I've never owned a Bayliner. They are usually OK, tape stripes instead
of Gel, smaller or lighter fittings, lighter weight upholstery, other
such things on their runabouts. 1970's Glastrons had lots of integrity
problems with wood in the floors & transoms, but around here the
Glastrons far outnumber the Bayliners. On our small lake, there are 6
Glastrons, zero Bayliners. Only one of the Glastrons came from the
local dealer.

Rob

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

From:

HEYYYYY, it's time to break out the old "Bayliner Observations."
Let's see... (blows off dust, coughs...)

Now, NONE of these represent my personal or subjective opinions. These
are objective, factual, empirical observations I've made over 40-plus
years of boating experience. OK?

1. I've been boating for over 40 years, and know many boat mechanics
personally. Independent mechanics, not dealership mechanics. Guys that
work on every boat made, all day, every day. Without exception, they
say Bayliners are "cheaply made."

2. I remember looking at a 21' Trophy cuddy cabin in a Bayliner
showroom. I pressed the tip of my forefinger against the side, and the
outer layer of fiberglass moved in and out about 1/4 an inch. Try this
with a good boat, like a Mako or Grady or my 1993 Robalo - thump it
with the heel of your hand; it feels like concrete slab. I'm serious:
that's not an exaggeration.

3. BOATING magazine reviewed a Bayliner runabout a few years back.
They described its construction as "flimsy."

4. EVERY time I see some dickhead thumping across the lake with his
fenders bouncing wildly around the hull, he's in a Bayliner. Why is
this? There must be a reason.

5. I live at a large recreational lake (about 30,000 acres), and know
most of the local marina owners and operators, and often take a break
and watch their customers come and go. Usually, when somebody pulls
up to the gas pumps, the gas boys jump up and help them tie off, step
onto the dock, pump their gas, etc. But many, many times I've seen
the guy in a Bayliner (usually the guy in #4 above) pull up, and the
gas boys just sit there talking, like he was invisible.

6. I know many, many major boat dealers, especially along the Texas
coast, who refuse to take Bayliners as tradeins. Interestingly, they
all give the same reasons:
1. We don't want them on our lot. We can't have a bunch of
cheap old Bayliners sitting
there next to these "nice" boats. It just makes the whole
place look cheap.
2. Customers have trouble with them, then blame us for
"selling them a bad boat."
3. They cost too much to get sale-ready. Somebody brings in a
used Bayliner, and you have
to replace just about everything on it.

I also know a number of used boat dealers who will buy just about any
boat made, to sit on their lots for resale: EXCEPT a Bayliner. "We
just can't sell'em," they all say. "Who's gonna walk in here, walk
past all these nice boats and spend eight thousand dollars on some
beat-up, old P.O.S. Bayliner?"

7. When I go down to the Texas coast, I usually launch around the
public docks, where thousands of Trophy-class boats are docked: 18-25
foot center consoles and cuddies. Yet, I will not see ONE SINGLE
TROPHY, even though big Bayliner dealerships are nearby. I asked some
local fishing guides if any of them used Trophys, and they said,
laughing out loud, "No way. When somebody shells out $500 for a
professional fishing trip, they don't want to go out in a Bayliner."

8. Even though it's marketed as a rough-and-tough offshore, bluewater
fishing boat, Sal****er Sportsman described a Bayliner Trophy as
"excellent for sheltered or inshore waters."

Now, I fully expect Skipper to rise from the grave...

Ron M.







All the "facts" from the king of the Bayliner Bashers.

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

My Bayliner Conquest 3250 is now on its 25th Season. Has not sank, is not
falling apart, is as solid as a rock and runs like a top! Perhaps they made
a better boat back then, I don't know. Its always been cared for and she
just keeps on giving year after year. Thankfully I do get dock hands to
help me when I gas er' up. See for yourself at: www.1800doit.com



"RGrew176" wrote in message
...
From:

HEYYYYY, it's time to break out the old "Bayliner Observations."
Let's see... (blows off dust, coughs...)

Now, NONE of these represent my personal or subjective opinions. These
are objective, factual, empirical observations I've made over 40-plus
years of boating experience. OK?

1. I've been boating for over 40 years, and know many boat mechanics
personally. Independent mechanics, not dealership mechanics. Guys that
work on every boat made, all day, every day. Without exception, they
say Bayliners are "cheaply made."

2. I remember looking at a 21' Trophy cuddy cabin in a Bayliner
showroom. I pressed the tip of my forefinger against the side, and the
outer layer of fiberglass moved in and out about 1/4 an inch. Try this
with a good boat, like a Mako or Grady or my 1993 Robalo - thump it
with the heel of your hand; it feels like concrete slab. I'm serious:
that's not an exaggeration.

3. BOATING magazine reviewed a Bayliner runabout a few years back.
They described its construction as "flimsy."

4. EVERY time I see some dickhead thumping across the lake with his
fenders bouncing wildly around the hull, he's in a Bayliner. Why is
this? There must be a reason.

5. I live at a large recreational lake (about 30,000 acres), and know
most of the local marina owners and operators, and often take a break
and watch their customers come and go. Usually, when somebody pulls
up to the gas pumps, the gas boys jump up and help them tie off, step
onto the dock, pump their gas, etc. But many, many times I've seen
the guy in a Bayliner (usually the guy in #4 above) pull up, and the
gas boys just sit there talking, like he was invisible.

6. I know many, many major boat dealers, especially along the Texas
coast, who refuse to take Bayliners as tradeins. Interestingly, they
all give the same reasons:
1. We don't want them on our lot. We can't have a bunch of
cheap old Bayliners sitting
there next to these "nice" boats. It just makes the whole
place look cheap.
2. Customers have trouble with them, then blame us for
"selling them a bad boat."
3. They cost too much to get sale-ready. Somebody brings in a
used Bayliner, and you have
to replace just about everything on it.

I also know a number of used boat dealers who will buy just about any
boat made, to sit on their lots for resale: EXCEPT a Bayliner. "We
just can't sell'em," they all say. "Who's gonna walk in here, walk
past all these nice boats and spend eight thousand dollars on some
beat-up, old P.O.S. Bayliner?"

7. When I go down to the Texas coast, I usually launch around the
public docks, where thousands of Trophy-class boats are docked: 18-25
foot center consoles and cuddies. Yet, I will not see ONE SINGLE
TROPHY, even though big Bayliner dealerships are nearby. I asked some
local fishing guides if any of them used Trophys, and they said,
laughing out loud, "No way. When somebody shells out $500 for a
professional fishing trip, they don't want to go out in a Bayliner."

8. Even though it's marketed as a rough-and-tough offshore, bluewater
fishing boat, Sal****er Sportsman described a Bayliner Trophy as
"excellent for sheltered or inshore waters."

Now, I fully expect Skipper to rise from the grave...

Ron M.







All the "facts" from the king of the Bayliner Bashers.

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

"Jamie Plante" wrote in message
...
My Bayliner Conquest 3250 is now on its 25th Season. Has not sank, is not
falling apart, is as solid as a rock and runs like a top! Perhaps they
made
a better boat back then, I don't know. Its always been cared for and she
just keeps on giving year after year. Thankfully I do get dock hands to
help me when I gas er' up. See for yourself at: www.1800doit.com


I checked your website. Here's a clue as to why the boat hasn't fallen
apart:

"This motor yacht has been in fresh water since 1984."

Nobody has said that Bayliner didn't make a decent boat for inland,
freshwater use. I just wouldn't buy one if I were boating offshore in
sal****er.

Nevertheless, you've taken exceptionally good care of your boat. Good luck
with the sale.

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

I checked your website. Here's a clue as to why the boat hasn't fallen
apart:

"This motor yacht has been in fresh water since 1984."

ROFLAMO.

That's about the silliest bash I've ever heard.

The kindest thing you can do for a boat with a wooden heart, (like an older
Bayliner
and dozens of other brands), is to keep it in salt water.

Salt water retards wood rot. Fresh water promotes it. Keep the rain off a boat
moored in sal****er, (good luck with that here 'bouts), and wood rot is not a
major problem. Back when they built planked commercial boats up this way,
they'd cut bungs into the planks below the waterline, pack them with salt, and
then seal the bung hole. A lot of the old timers still throw
rocksalt into the bilge of a wooden boat.

Furthermore, if you want to see hundreds of older Bayliners "miraculously
surviving" a sal****er experience, come to the Pacific NW. They're everywhere.
In fact, if you see a 25 year old FRP boat up here it's almost always a
Bayliner, a Uniflite, a Tollycraft, a Sea Ray, or a Glas-Ply. Yes, there are
many other brands represented among the older boats, but if you gave me a buck
for every mass-pro boat of that age from the group I listed and I gave you a
buck for every boat *not*, I'd be dollars ahead by the end of the day. :-)

"Sal****er will make a Bayliner fall apart."

yep. probably just dissolve right out from under ya.

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

Around 6/1/2004 4:02 PM, Gould 0738 wrote:

Furthermore, if you want to see hundreds of older Bayliners "miraculously
surviving" a sal****er experience, come to the Pacific NW. They're everywhere.
In fact, if you see a 25 year old FRP boat up here it's almost always a
Bayliner, a Uniflite, a Tollycraft, a Sea Ray, or a Glas-Ply. Yes, there are
many other brands represented among the older boats, but if you gave me a buck
for every mass-pro boat of that age from the group I listed and I gave you a
buck for every boat *not*, I'd be dollars ahead by the end of the day. :-)

Hey, it took a good 35 years for my Glastron's floor and transom to go,
and that's only because the rain got to it when it was briefly kept
outdoors about 15 years ago. Since I've replaced both with marine ply,
keep it covered, and mostly boat in salt, I expect never to have to
replace them again.


--
~/Garth - 1966 Glastron V-142 Skiflite: "Blue-Boat"
"There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing about in boats."
-Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
I checked your website. Here's a clue as to why the boat hasn't fallen
apart:

"This motor yacht has been in fresh water since 1984."

ROFLAMO.

That's about the silliest bash I've ever heard.

The kindest thing you can do for a boat with a wooden heart, (like an
older
Bayliner
and dozens of other brands), is to keep it in salt water.

Yeah, sure. Sal****er does wonders for aluminum and chromed zinc hardware,
non-tinned wiring, and cheap fabric stitching.

Why do boats kept in fresh water draw such a premium?


Salt water retards wood rot. Fresh water promotes it. Keep the rain off a
boat
moored in sal****er, (good luck with that here 'bouts), and wood rot is
not a
major problem. Back when they built planked commercial boats up this way,
they'd cut bungs into the planks below the waterline, pack them with salt,
and
then seal the bung hole. A lot of the old timers still throw
rocksalt into the bilge of a wooden boat.

You seem to know a lot about bung-holes. Not surprising for a liberal from
the Pacific Northwest. ;-)


Furthermore, if you want to see hundreds of older Bayliners "miraculously
surviving" a sal****er experience, come to the Pacific NW. They're
everywhere.
In fact, if you see a 25 year old FRP boat up here it's almost always a
Bayliner, a Uniflite, a Tollycraft, a Sea Ray, or a Glas-Ply. Yes, there
are
many other brands represented among the older boats, but if you gave me a
buck
for every mass-pro boat of that age from the group I listed and I gave you
a
buck for every boat *not*, I'd be dollars ahead by the end of the day. :-)

As a percentage of boats made vs boats still in use today, I'd put Boston
Whaler at the top of the list over any of the ones you've listed.


"Sal****er will make a Bayliner fall apart."

yep. probably just dissolve right out from under ya.

There's more to a boat than a hull supported by non-marine grade stringers
and a superstructure with plywood bulkheads. You're being intentionally
obtuse here.

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

There's more to a boat than a hull supported by non-marine grade stringers
and a superstructure with plywood bulkheads. You're being intentionally
obtuse here.

Not at all. I'm countering your statement,
"Bayliners won't hold up in sal****er" with an actual observation that up here
in the NW, where there are more Bayliners than anywhere else and a lot of
sal****er, that does not prove true in real life. You can always restitch a
seat cushion.

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
There's more to a boat than a hull supported by non-marine grade
stringers
and a superstructure with plywood bulkheads. You're being intentionally
obtuse here.

Not at all. I'm countering your statement,
"Bayliners won't hold up in sal****er" with an actual observation that up
here
in the NW, where there are more Bayliners than anywhere else and a lot of
sal****er, that does not prove true in real life. You can always restitch
a
seat cushion.

....and replace bow rails and deck hardware with 316 stainless...and replace
plastic through-hulls with bronze...and rewire with tinned copper
wiring...and restitch with doubled up Gore-tex stitching...and replace
rotted bulkhead walls with Starboard or Marine ply...and then you'd have a
Sea-Ray not a Bayliner.

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

Said:"....replace
plastic through-hulls with bronze...and rewire with tinned copper
wiring...and restitch with doubled up Gore-tex stitching...and replace
rotted bulkhead walls with Starboard or Marine ply...and then you'd have a
Sea-Ray not a Bayliner.


Well let's see here...
1) Plastic (actually nylon) fittings don't react electrically with anything.
So no galvanic corrosion, etc.
2) My boat has Anchor brand tinned wiring..?
3)No such thing as GORE-TEX *STICHING* (doubled up or other wise..check their
web site..it's a fabric, not a thread).
4)While MARINE grade plywood is nice (more laminations per inch of thickness,
no voids) it's still wood, glued together with waterproof glue, just like
exterior grade ply, and will definitely rot! Could you name me a boat that
uses "Starboard" (your term) for bulkhead wallls? With more proof then your
word.
If SeaRay built the kind of WA Cuddy fishing boat I wanted (even though they
also have Zamark rail fittings) I might have bought one. They don't, and I
didn't.
Like my Trophy 2052 though!
Mike

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

CaptMP wrote:
Well let's see here...
1) Plastic (actually nylon) fittings don't react electrically with anything.
So no galvanic corrosion, etc.
2) My boat has Anchor brand tinned wiring..?
3)No such thing as GORE-TEX *STICHING* (doubled up or other wise..check their
web site..it's a fabric, not a thread).
4)While MARINE grade plywood is nice (more laminations per inch of thickness,
no voids) it's still wood, glued together with waterproof glue, just like
exterior grade ply, and will definitely rot! Could you name me a boat that
uses "Starboard" (your term) for bulkhead wallls? With more proof then your
word.


There are a number of boats that use a structural composite for
bulkheads... popular on high dollar racing sailboats these days is a
Nomex honeycomb sandwich. But your basic point, that NOBBY doesn't know
WTF he's talking about, is a given.

DSK

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

...and replace bow rails and deck hardware with 316 stainless...and replace
plastic through-hulls with bronze...

Were marelon through hulls around 25 years ago?

.and rewire with tinned copper
wiring..

"The only reason your boat hasn't fallen apart is that it is in fresh water"

Do the wires hold a boat together in FLA?
Would you replace circuits that had not failed in 25 years simply because they
might in the future?

.and restitch with doubled up Gore-tex stitching...

"The only reason your boat hasn't fallen apart is that it has been in fresh
water"

Few 25 year old boats have the original cushions and upholstery. You are
absolutely right, you can (and will) restitch with anything you like.

..and replace
rotted bulkhead walls with Starboard or Marine ply...

"The only reason your boat hasn't fallen apart is that it has been in fresh
water."

Rotted bulkheads (walls) are not endemic on older Bayliners. I wouldn't say
they are unheard of, but you will find them spread throughout a wide spectrum
of boats at this age. Usually caused by fresh water.
Guess the OP is just doubly lucky.

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
...and replace bow rails and deck hardware with 316 stainless...and
replace
plastic through-hulls with bronze...

Were marelon through hulls around 25 years ago?

.and rewire with tinned copper
wiring..

"The only reason your boat hasn't fallen apart is that it is in fresh
water"

Do the wires hold a boat together in FLA?
Would you replace circuits that had not failed in 25 years simply because
they
might in the future?

.and restitch with doubled up Gore-tex stitching...

"The only reason your boat hasn't fallen apart is that it has been in
fresh
water"

Few 25 year old boats have the original cushions and upholstery. You are
absolutely right, you can (and will) restitch with anything you like.

..and replace
rotted bulkhead walls with Starboard or Marine ply...

"The only reason your boat hasn't fallen apart is that it has been in
fresh
water."

Rotted bulkheads (walls) are not endemic on older Bayliners. I wouldn't
say
they are unheard of, but you will find them spread throughout a wide
spectrum
of boats at this age. Usually caused by fresh water.
Guess the OP is just doubly lucky.


So a 15 year old Yugo is a great car as long as it's frame is intact? You're
in used boat/car salesman mode, Chuck.

There is more to a boat than it's hull...and I never implied that the hull
would have failed quicker if it were used in sal****er.

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

So a 15 year old Yugo is a great car as long as it's frame is intact? You're
in used boat/car salesman mode, Chuck.

There is more to a boat than it's hull...and I never implied that the hull
would have failed quicker if it were used in sal****er.

How would you define "fall apart"?

There is no doubt that Bayliner wasn't building the best available boats 25
years ago. Few would say that Bayliner builds the "best" available boats today.
I certainly would not.

What has happened over the years is that
non-boating dock gossips and competing
sales people have painted a picture of Bayliner that is worse than the boat
actually deserves. Those who are predisposed to believe the worst about every
thing and everybody clamor the loudest about the deck hardware, the threads in
the upholstery, etc.

In spite of the fact that "everybody knows" a new Bayliner will be worthless
piece of
totalled junk in just a few years, "everybody knows" the hull is likely to
split in half and drown your family underway, "everybody knows" the boats are
unsuited to any water with anything more severe than a ripple on the surface,
and all the other things "everybody knows"...........somebody forgot to tell
the boats!

In this neck of the woods, older Bayliners are everywhere. The older boats were
not built as well as the newer Bayliners (and the newer Bayliners are not built
as well, in some respects, as more expensive competing brands), yet they
continue to provide good service in a sal****er environment where a typical
summer afternoon involves a steep, short period, 1-2 foot chop. Worse weather
brings worse water, and we still don't see Bayliners splitting down the keel,
losing transoms,
or suffering the sudden, catastrophic failures that the most energetic bashers
imply are commonplace.

Notice that the OP didn't pull a Stan the Mann on the NG and claim that his
boat was "far superior" to most others, just remarked that in spite of the
constant bashing and disparaging remarks about Bayliner his boat continues to
give good service after a many, many years.

His experience is not all that unusual.
(You can counter with a horror story of an abused and beat up old Bayliner if
you like, I didn't say that you can't ruin a boat
with neglect or misuse).

Another factor that makes Bayliner the butt of so many jokes is that it has
traditionally been a popular choice for newbies. Those same newbies make the
same stupid mistakes that they'd make if they had purchased any other boat
instead, but we see more of those goof-ups in a Bayliner than in other boats
due to the sheer numbers sold. It becomes easy to stereotype anybody owning a
Bayliner as an inexperienced rookie, and the logical extension is that if they
had "known better" they would have purchased another brand. The logical
extension supports that position that the boats must be dramatically
substandard....and so it goes.

Some of those rookies must be very slow learners. Bayliner enjoys an owner
loyalty
that most other brands would kill for. (Insert old saw: "The owner loyalty is
because you'll be thrown off any other dealer's lot if you show up with a used
Bayliner to trade in....they would rather pass on your business than make any
money on a customer who previously bought a Bayliner"....here)

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

"NOYB" wrote in message news:LpWdnVy8Qq-xoiDdRVn-
...and replace bow rails and deck hardware with 316 stainless...and replace
plastic through-hulls with bronze

Of course, so you can have that electrolytic action going for you, so
that you can replace those fittings every couple of years. Why would
you use plastic, that lasts for years and years. It's 2004, synthetic
materials are a great thing.
and restitch with doubled up Gore-tex stitching...

What to HELL is Gore-Tex stitching???

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"NOYB" wrote in message news:LpWdnVy8Qq-xoiDdRVn-
...and replace bow rails and deck hardware with 316 stainless...and
replace
plastic through-hulls with bronze

Of course, so you can have that electrolytic action going for you, so
that you can replace those fittings every couple of years. Why would
you use plastic, that lasts for years and years. It's 2004, synthetic
materials are a great thing.

Plastics are still inferior to bronze when used below the waterline...no
matter what you think.


and restitch with doubled up Gore-tex stitching...

What to HELL is Gore-Tex stitching???

http://www.ez2cy.com/other_enclosures/e_printable.html

Here's an excerpt:
"At about the same time, GORE-TEX thread (now known as TENARA) was
introduced in a strength compatible for the rigors of a marine enclosure and
promised to change the weakest link into the longest lasting component used
in the enclosure."

Feel stupid, bassie?

BTW--did you google up a thread yet where I said that our invasion in Iraq
had nothing to do with oil? LOL. I didn't think so.

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

CaptMP,
I checked Gore-Tex's web site, http://www.gore.com/creative/tanara.html
, it listed thread as one of their products. Gore-tex is a fabric, but it's
made from a thread, gore-tex thread.
Paul

"CaptMP" wrote in message
...


Said:"....replace
plastic through-hulls with bronze...and rewire with tinned copper
wiring...and restitch with doubled up Gore-tex stitching...and replace
rotted bulkhead walls with Starboard or Marine ply...and then you'd have
a
Sea-Ray not a Bayliner.


Well let's see here...
1) Plastic (actually nylon) fittings don't react electrically with
anything.
So no galvanic corrosion, etc.
2) My boat has Anchor brand tinned wiring..?
3)No such thing as GORE-TEX *STICHING* (doubled up or other wise..check
their
web site..it's a fabric, not a thread).
4)While MARINE grade plywood is nice (more laminations per inch of
thickness,
no voids) it's still wood, glued together with waterproof glue, just like
exterior grade ply, and will definitely rot! Could you name me a boat
that
uses "Starboard" (your term) for bulkhead wallls? With more proof then
your
word.
If SeaRay built the kind of WA Cuddy fishing boat I wanted (even though
they
also have Zamark rail fittings) I might have bought one. They don't, and
I
didn't.
Like my Trophy 2052 though!
Mike

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

basskisser,
See, http://www.gore.com/creative/tanara.html , I would think it's using
gore-tex thread to stitch a cushion together as opposed to say nylon thread.
Paul

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"NOYB" wrote in message news:LpWdnVy8Qq-xoiDdRVn-
...and replace bow rails and deck hardware with 316 stainless...and
replace
plastic through-hulls with bronze

Of course, so you can have that electrolytic action going for you, so
that you can replace those fittings every couple of years. Why would
you use plastic, that lasts for years and years. It's 2004, synthetic
materials are a great thing.
and restitch with doubled up Gore-tex stitching...

What to HELL is Gore-Tex stitching???

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote in message
...
basskisser,
See, http://www.gore.com/creative/tanara.html , I would think it's
using
gore-tex thread to stitch a cushion together as opposed to say nylon
thread.

Grin bassie's silence is deafening.

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

NOYB,
Have you ever read a statement by Bassie that was not totally off base? The
funny part is even when he is dead wrong, he still doesn't know it.


"NOYB" wrote in message
...

"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote in message
...
basskisser,
See, http://www.gore.com/creative/tanara.html , I would think it's
using
gore-tex thread to stitch a cushion together as opposed to say nylon
thread.

Grin bassie's silence is deafening.

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

"NOYB" wrote in message ...
"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote in message
...
basskisser,
See, http://www.gore.com/creative/tanara.html , I would think it's
using
gore-tex thread to stitch a cushion together as opposed to say nylon
thread.

Grin bassie's silence is deafening.

You stupid idiot!! You definitively used "Gore-Tex". Now, I care
nothing about Tanera textiles. SHOW ME some "Gore-Tex thread".

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote in message ...
basskisser,
See, http://www.gore.com/creative/tanara.html , I would think it's using
gore-tex thread to stitch a cushion together as opposed to say nylon thread.
Paul

Nowhere on that site, NOWHERE is there a mention of Gore-Tex, a
fabric, go to THEIR website, not some generic drivel, and look around,
here is the link:

http://www.gore-tex.com

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

"John Smith" wrote in message news:FUvvc.38200$eY2.16779@attbi_s02...
NOYB,
Have you ever read a statement by Bassie that was not totally off base? The
funny part is even when he is dead wrong, he still doesn't know it.

Prove me wrong. NOYB said "Gore-Tex", NOT Tanera. Sooooo, go visit the
website for "Gore-Tex", not some generic drivel, and get back to me.
Show me on THEIR website where this "Gore-Tex" stitching (ie: thread)
is found.

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

On 3 Jun 2004 05:21:38 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote in message ...
basskisser,
See, http://www.gore.com/creative/tanara.html , I would think it's using
gore-tex thread to stitch a cushion together as opposed to say nylon thread.
Paul

Nowhere on that site, NOWHERE is there a mention of Gore-Tex, a
fabric, go to THEIR website, not some generic drivel, and look around,
here is the link:

http://www.gore-tex.com

Actually, there is mention of gore-tex thread on thier website. You
just didn't look hard enough.

Here are links of people using gore-tex thread:

http://www.kron4.com/Global/story.asp?S=1511515

"The gore-tex thread, which looks like dental floss, is run up the check
then attached on the side of the head."

http://www.nordstromhospital.fi/eLips.htm

"Gore-tex thread is soft and elastic and around 1,8 mm in diameter."

http://www.perineology.com/files/vag_tape2.htm

"Then, with a constant visual control, stitches of Gore-Tex® threads set
on a small but strong needle are passed, right and left, through the
outer parts of the arcuate ligament."

Now, if you want to find it on their webside, go to
http://www.gore-tex.com and click on the link at the bottom, Medical
Products. Then click on one of the products links, general should be
fine. Near the bottom you'll find a line for gore-tex suture that will
lead you to:

http://www.goremedical.com/English/P...ture/Index.htm

Steve

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

Steven,
Basskisser's loves to take a stand and continue to believe it even when you
provide proof that he is wrong. I loved his strong position concerning
whiskey and schnapps even when his own link showed that the key component of
whiskey was that it needed to be aged in oak casts.

I can now see BassK stating that your link is incorrect because it is used
for medical purposes and not to be used on a boat.

Here is a link showing the benefits of Gore-Tex sewing thread on a boat
cover or awning. "We know that GORE-TEX® sewing thread never fails due to
exposure to the environment. We back up that claim with a full lifetime
warranty. If the seams on your boat cover or awning fail before the end of
the usual life of the fabric, we'll pay for the repair work."

http://www.americana.com/fabricawnings/goretex.htm




"Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message
...
On 3 Jun 2004 05:21:38 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote in message
...
basskisser,
See, http://www.gore.com/creative/tanara.html , I would think it's
using
gore-tex thread to stitch a cushion together as opposed to say nylon
thread.
Paul

Nowhere on that site, NOWHERE is there a mention of Gore-Tex, a
fabric, go to THEIR website, not some generic drivel, and look around,
here is the link:

http://www.gore-tex.com

Actually, there is mention of gore-tex thread on thier website. You
just didn't look hard enough.

Here are links of people using gore-tex thread:

http://www.kron4.com/Global/story.asp?S=1511515

"The gore-tex thread, which looks like dental floss, is run up the check
then attached on the side of the head."

http://www.nordstromhospital.fi/eLips.htm

"Gore-tex thread is soft and elastic and around 1,8 mm in diameter."

http://www.perineology.com/files/vag_tape2.htm

"Then, with a constant visual control, stitches of Gore-Tex® threads set
on a small but strong needle are passed, right and left, through the
outer parts of the arcuate ligament."

Now, if you want to find it on their webside, go to
http://www.gore-tex.com and click on the link at the bottom, Medical
Products. Then click on one of the products links, general should be
fine. Near the bottom you'll find a line for gore-tex suture that will
lead you to:

http://www.goremedical.com/English/P...ture/Index.htm

Steve

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...
On 3 Jun 2004 05:21:38 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote in message ...
basskisser,
See, http://www.gore.com/creative/tanara.html , I would think it's using
gore-tex thread to stitch a cushion together as opposed to say nylon thread.
Paul

Nowhere on that site, NOWHERE is there a mention of Gore-Tex, a
fabric, go to THEIR website, not some generic drivel, and look around,
here is the link:

http://www.gore-tex.com

Actually, there is mention of gore-tex thread on thier website. You
just didn't look hard enough.

Here are links of people using gore-tex thread:

http://www.kron4.com/Global/story.asp?S=1511515

"The gore-tex thread, which looks like dental floss, is run up the check
then attached on the side of the head."

http://www.nordstromhospital.fi/eLips.htm

"Gore-tex thread is soft and elastic and around 1,8 mm in diameter."

http://www.perineology.com/files/vag_tape2.htm

"Then, with a constant visual control, stitches of Gore-Tex® threads set
on a small but strong needle are passed, right and left, through the
outer parts of the arcuate ligament."

Now, if you want to find it on their webside, go to
http://www.gore-tex.com and click on the link at the bottom, Medical
Products. Then click on one of the products links, general should be
fine. Near the bottom you'll find a line for gore-tex suture that will
lead you to:

http://www.goremedical.com/English/P...ture/Index.htm

Steve

Hmm, Steve, even you can do better than that. You say that Gore-Tex
has thread on their website, yet you show other websites. Now you know
that NONE of those products uses the Gore-Tex trademark.

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"John Smith" wrote in message
news:FUvvc.38200$eY2.16779@attbi_s02...
NOYB,
Have you ever read a statement by Bassie that was not totally off base?
The
funny part is even when he is dead wrong, he still doesn't know it.

Prove me wrong. NOYB said "Gore-Tex", NOT Tanera. Sooooo, go visit the
website for "Gore-Tex", not some generic drivel, and get back to me.
Show me on THEIR website where this "Gore-Tex" stitching (ie: thread)
is found.

Tenara is a Gore-Tex product you bonehead! Calling Tenara sewing thread
"Gore-tex thread" would be the same as calling a Pontiac a "GM automobile".
Sheesh...

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

"basskisser" wrote in message
m...

Hmm, Steve, even you can do better than that. You say that Gore-Tex
has thread on their website, yet you show other websites. Now you know
that NONE of those products uses the Gore-Tex trademark.
From:

http://www.americana.com/fabricawnings/goretex.htm
The Thread Solution
Whether it's your boat canvas, awning or other outdoor fabric structure,
seam failure always results from thread that's adversly affected by the
elements. Now that problem is solved forever.

Why does stiching fail?
Outdoor canvas is exposed to ultraviolet(UV) radiation, cleaning agents,
pollution, sal****er and air, rain and snow. While these elements are
detrimental to both the fabric and seam thread, the thread usually fails
first. Polyester thread was traditionally used for sewing seams even though
it would often need replacement every few years. Today the latest fabrics
last 5 to 10 years. Why not have seams that last just as long?

Now there's GORE-TEX® sewing thread
This remarkable thread is manufactured from 100% expanded PTFE fiber, a
unique form of PTFE known as Teflon®. GORE-TEX® sewing thread will not
deteriorate from exposure to the elements. It's an ideal choice for sewing
outdoor fabric products, because it's immune to ultraviolet degredation, the
primary cause of seam failure.

Our Guarantee
We know that GORE-TEX® sewing thread never fails due to exposure to the
environment. We back up that claim with a full lifetime warranty. If the
seams on your boat cover or awning fail before the end of the usual life of
the fabric, we'll pay for the repair work.

Always ask for GORE-TEX® sewing thread
When it's time to restitch an awning or order a new boat cover or any other
outdoor fabric product, request GORE-TEX® sewing thread.

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"NOYB" wrote in message
...
"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote in message
...
basskisser,
See, http://www.gore.com/creative/tanara.html , I would think it's
using
gore-tex thread to stitch a cushion together as opposed to say nylon
thread.

Grin bassie's silence is deafening.

You stupid idiot!! You definitively used "Gore-Tex". Now, I care
nothing about Tanera textiles. SHOW ME some "Gore-Tex thread".

Tenara thread is a Gore-Tex product. Calling it Gore-tex thread is the same
as calling a Buick, Chevy, Pontiac, etc. a GM car.

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

From: "NOYB"

Plastics are still inferior to bronze when used below the waterline...no
matter what you think.

My Bayliner has no plastics used below the waterline, both of my below the
waterline pickups are bronze. Hmmmmmmm.

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

On 3 Jun 2004 12:31:01 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...
On 3 Jun 2004 05:21:38 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote in message ...
basskisser,
See, http://www.gore.com/creative/tanara.html , I would think it's using
gore-tex thread to stitch a cushion together as opposed to say nylon thread.
Paul

Nowhere on that site, NOWHERE is there a mention of Gore-Tex, a
fabric, go to THEIR website, not some generic drivel, and look around,
here is the link:

http://www.gore-tex.com

Actually, there is mention of gore-tex thread on thier website. You
just didn't look hard enough.

Here are links of people using gore-tex thread:

http://www.kron4.com/Global/story.asp?S=1511515

"The gore-tex thread, which looks like dental floss, is run up the check
then attached on the side of the head."

http://www.nordstromhospital.fi/eLips.htm

"Gore-tex thread is soft and elastic and around 1,8 mm in diameter."

http://www.perineology.com/files/vag_tape2.htm

"Then, with a constant visual control, stitches of Gore-Tex® threads set
on a small but strong needle are passed, right and left, through the
outer parts of the arcuate ligament."

Now, if you want to find it on their webside, go to
http://www.gore-tex.com and click on the link at the bottom, Medical
Products. Then click on one of the products links, general should be
fine. Near the bottom you'll find a line for gore-tex suture that will
lead you to:

http://www.goremedical.com/English/P...ture/Index.htm

Hmm, Steve, even you can do better than that. You say that Gore-Tex
has thread on their website, yet you show other websites. Now you know
that NONE of those products uses the Gore-Tex trademark.

Not true. The goremedical site is the Gore-Tex® official corporate
website for Gore-Tex® medical products. It is *their* website. Look at
the official Gore-Tex® medical products website at this link:

http://www.goremedical.com/English/P...ture/Index.htm

and you will see that their website shows the surgical thread labled
with their registered trademark GORE-TEX.®

Did you look at their medical products website? Do you still not
believe that Gore-Tex® makes surgical suture thread?

Steve

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...
On 3 Jun 2004 12:31:01 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...
On 3 Jun 2004 05:21:38 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote in message ...
basskisser,
See, http://www.gore.com/creative/tanara.html , I would think it's using
gore-tex thread to stitch a cushion together as opposed to say nylon thread.
Paul

Nowhere on that site, NOWHERE is there a mention of Gore-Tex, a
fabric, go to THEIR website, not some generic drivel, and look around,
here is the link:

http://www.gore-tex.com

Actually, there is mention of gore-tex thread on thier website. You
just didn't look hard enough.

Here are links of people using gore-tex thread:

http://www.kron4.com/Global/story.asp?S=1511515

"The gore-tex thread, which looks like dental floss, is run up the check
then attached on the side of the head."

http://www.nordstromhospital.fi/eLips.htm

"Gore-tex thread is soft and elastic and around 1,8 mm in diameter."

http://www.perineology.com/files/vag_tape2.htm

"Then, with a constant visual control, stitches of Gore-Tex® threads set
on a small but strong needle are passed, right and left, through the
outer parts of the arcuate ligament."

Now, if you want to find it on their webside, go to
http://www.gore-tex.com and click on the link at the bottom, Medical
Products. Then click on one of the products links, general should be
fine. Near the bottom you'll find a line for gore-tex suture that will
lead you to:

http://www.goremedical.com/English/P...ture/Index.htm

Hmm, Steve, even you can do better than that. You say that Gore-Tex
has thread on their website, yet you show other websites. Now you know
that NONE of those products uses the Gore-Tex trademark.

Not true. The goremedical site is the Gore-Tex® official corporate
website for Gore-Tex® medical products. It is *their* website. Look at
the official Gore-Tex® medical products website at this link:

http://www.goremedical.com/English/P...ture/Index.htm

and you will see that their website shows the surgical thread labled
with their registered trademark GORE-TEX.®

Did you look at their medical products website? Do you still not
believe that Gore-Tex® makes surgical suture thread?

Steve

Hmm, so, how many boats do YOU see that use "Gore-Tex" thread, Steve?

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

On 4 Jun 2004 04:21:44 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...
On 3 Jun 2004 12:31:01 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...
On 3 Jun 2004 05:21:38 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote in message ...
basskisser,
See, http://www.gore.com/creative/tanara.html , I would think it's using
gore-tex thread to stitch a cushion together as opposed to say nylon thread.
Paul

Nowhere on that site, NOWHERE is there a mention of Gore-Tex, a
fabric, go to THEIR website, not some generic drivel, and look around,
here is the link:

http://www.gore-tex.com

Actually, there is mention of gore-tex thread on thier website. You
just didn't look hard enough.

Here are links of people using gore-tex thread:

http://www.kron4.com/Global/story.asp?S=1511515

"The gore-tex thread, which looks like dental floss, is run up the check
then attached on the side of the head."

http://www.nordstromhospital.fi/eLips.htm

"Gore-tex thread is soft and elastic and around 1,8 mm in diameter."

http://www.perineology.com/files/vag_tape2.htm

"Then, with a constant visual control, stitches of Gore-Tex® threads set
on a small but strong needle are passed, right and left, through the
outer parts of the arcuate ligament."

Now, if you want to find it on their webside, go to
http://www.gore-tex.com and click on the link at the bottom, Medical
Products. Then click on one of the products links, general should be
fine. Near the bottom you'll find a line for gore-tex suture that will
lead you to:

http://www.goremedical.com/English/P...ture/Index.htm

Hmm, Steve, even you can do better than that. You say that Gore-Tex
has thread on their website, yet you show other websites. Now you know
that NONE of those products uses the Gore-Tex trademark.

Not true. The goremedical site is the Gore-Tex® official corporate
website for Gore-Tex® medical products. It is *their* website. Look at
the official Gore-Tex® medical products website at this link:

http://www.goremedical.com/English/P...ture/Index.htm

and you will see that their website shows the surgical thread labled
with their registered trademark GORE-TEX.®

Did you look at their medical products website? Do you still not
believe that Gore-Tex® makes surgical suture thread?

Hmm, so, how many boats do YOU see that use "Gore-Tex" thread, Steve?

Ah, wonderful! You've finally admitted you're wrong and that there is
such a thing as Gore-Tex thread.

How would I know how many boats I've seen that use Gore-Tex thread?
It's not the kind of question I usually ask when going on someone's
boat.

Steve

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message
...
On 3 Jun 2004 12:31:01 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message
...
On 3 Jun 2004 05:21:38 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote in message
...
basskisser,
See, http://www.gore.com/creative/tanara.html , I would think
it's using
gore-tex thread to stitch a cushion together as opposed to say
nylon thread.
Paul

Nowhere on that site, NOWHERE is there a mention of Gore-Tex, a
fabric, go to THEIR website, not some generic drivel, and look
around,
here is the link:

http://www.gore-tex.com

Actually, there is mention of gore-tex thread on thier website. You
just didn't look hard enough.

Here are links of people using gore-tex thread:

http://www.kron4.com/Global/story.asp?S=1511515

"The gore-tex thread, which looks like dental floss, is run up the
check
then attached on the side of the head."

http://www.nordstromhospital.fi/eLips.htm

"Gore-tex thread is soft and elastic and around 1,8 mm in diameter."

http://www.perineology.com/files/vag_tape2.htm

"Then, with a constant visual control, stitches of Gore-Tex® threads
set
on a small but strong needle are passed, right and left, through the
outer parts of the arcuate ligament."

Now, if you want to find it on their webside, go to
http://www.gore-tex.com and click on the link at the bottom, Medical
Products. Then click on one of the products links, general should be
fine. Near the bottom you'll find a line for gore-tex suture that
will
lead you to:

http://www.goremedical.com/English/P...ture/Index.htm

Hmm, Steve, even you can do better than that. You say that Gore-Tex
has thread on their website, yet you show other websites. Now you know
that NONE of those products uses the Gore-Tex trademark.

Not true. The goremedical site is the Gore-Tex® official corporate
website for Gore-Tex® medical products. It is *their* website. Look at
the official Gore-Tex® medical products website at this link:

http://www.goremedical.com/English/P...ture/Index.htm

and you will see that their website shows the surgical thread labled
with their registered trademark GORE-TEX.®

Did you look at their medical products website? Do you still not
believe that Gore-Tex® makes surgical suture thread?

Steve

Hmm, so, how many boats do YOU see that use "Gore-Tex" thread, Steve?

Chaparral, for one.


http://www.boatingmag.com/article.as...article_id=152

Here's an excerpt:
The 263 Sunesta has a semicircular cockpit seating design that makes a great
conversation pit. The seat cushions are made from heavy, comfortable
40-ounce vinyl, stitched with weatherproof *Gore-Tex thread*.

BAYLINER BASHERS..
 

basskisser,
I'm starting to get the impression that none can come up with enough
proof to satisfy you and that you argue just for the sake of argument. This
isn't the sign of a reasonable person. I don't offer this statement in order
to get into a confrontational situation with you but to bring to your
attention your lack of willingness to listen to the majority opinion. I
think it's obvious from the preceding posts that there is a gore-tex product
that is a thread. I like to think of a newsgroup as a source for information
rather than a debating area where winning the debate is paramount.
Paul

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message
...
On 3 Jun 2004 12:31:01 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message
...
On 3 Jun 2004 05:21:38 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote in message
...
basskisser,
See, http://www.gore.com/creative/tanara.html , I would think
it's using
gore-tex thread to stitch a cushion together as opposed to say
nylon thread.
Paul

Nowhere on that site, NOWHERE is there a mention of Gore-Tex, a
fabric, go to THEIR website, not some generic drivel, and look
around,
here is the link:

http://www.gore-tex.com

Actually, there is mention of gore-tex thread on thier website. You
just didn't look hard enough.

Here are links of people using gore-tex thread:

http://www.kron4.com/Global/story.asp?S=1511515

"The gore-tex thread, which looks like dental floss, is run up the
check
then attached on the side of the head."

http://www.nordstromhospital.fi/eLips.htm

"Gore-tex thread is soft and elastic and around 1,8 mm in diameter."

http://www.perineology.com/files/vag_tape2.htm

"Then, with a constant visual control, stitches of Gore-Tex® threads
set
on a small but strong needle are passed, right and left, through the
outer parts of the arcuate ligament."

Now, if you want to find it on their webside, go to
http://www.gore-tex.com and click on the link at the bottom, Medical
Products. Then click on one of the products links, general should be
fine. Near the bottom you'll find a line for gore-tex suture that
will
lead you to:

http://www.goremedical.com/English/P...ture/Index.htm

Hmm, Steve, even you can do better than that. You say that Gore-Tex
has thread on their website, yet you show other websites. Now you know
that NONE of those products uses the Gore-Tex trademark.

Not true. The goremedical site is the Gore-Tex® official corporate
website for Gore-Tex® medical products. It is *their* website. Look at
the official Gore-Tex® medical products website at this link:

http://www.goremedical.com/English/P...ture/Index.htm

and you will see that their website shows the surgical thread labled
with their registered trademark GORE-TEX.®

Did you look at their medical products website? Do you still not
believe that Gore-Tex® makes surgical suture thread?

Steve

Hmm, so, how many boats do YOU see that use "Gore-Tex" thread, Steve?