On Wed, 4 May 2005 17:44:19 -0400, "JimH" wrote:


"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JimH" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JimH" wrote in message
...
To the 4 students killed at Kent State on May 4, 1970, may you continue
to rest in peace.

http://kent.state.tripod.com/

Peace? If they were acting peacefully, they wouldn't have been shot.
How many students who stayed in their rooms studying were shot that day?
Hmmmmmmmmmmm?



Yeah sure.....unarmed students deserved to be shot dead.

Where the hell is your head NOYB?

Two days before the shootings, the demonstrators burned down the ROTC
building, and then pelted the cops and firefighters with rocks, and
slashed the firehoses with knives.

Biker groups showed up, store windows were smashed, and shops were looted.
There was talk about "revolutionaries" showing up to destroy the campus
and city and tip off a violent political revolution in the US.


The Governor warned against the Demonstration on May 4th, yet they held it
anyhow. When the crowd was ordered to disperse, they ignored the demand.
Tear gas was used to disperse the crowd, but it was only thrown back at
the Guardsmen. A crowd of 1000 students pursued a retreating group of 70
armed Guardsmen...and the Guardsmen opened fire.

WTF did they think would happen when they started pursuing *armed*
Guardsmen with rocks, tear gas canisters, and other projectiles?

It's sad that 3 of the 4 who were killed appear to have been "observers",
rather than participants. But the blood of those three is on the hands of
the 1000's of demonstrators who incited the defensive response from the
Guardsmen.



Someone (Gov. Rhodes?) decided to allow the troops to use real bullets.
What a brilliant idea.....NOT!

No one deserved to be shot. No one deserved to be killed.

One can control a crowd with other means......rubber bullets, horses, water
cannons. All those options were available.

You also have to understand the sentiment about the war at that stage in
time, especially amongst college students.

Did you live through this experience NOYB....how old were you in 1970?


Having been involved in riot control training, I can say that we did *not* have
rubber bullets for the M-14. Maybe they exist for the M-16 now, but I've not
heard of them.

Nor is the National Guard issued horses for riot control. Perhaps the police had
them, but if the police could have handled the problem, why were the Guard
called out?
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 4 May 2005 17:44:19 -0400, "JimH" wrote:


"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...

"JimH" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JimH" wrote in message
...
To the 4 students killed at Kent State on May 4, 1970, may you
continue
to rest in peace.

http://kent.state.tripod.com/

Peace? If they were acting peacefully, they wouldn't have been shot.
How many students who stayed in their rooms studying were shot that
day?
Hmmmmmmmmmmm?



Yeah sure.....unarmed students deserved to be shot dead.

Where the hell is your head NOYB?

Two days before the shootings, the demonstrators burned down the ROTC
building, and then pelted the cops and firefighters with rocks, and
slashed the firehoses with knives.

Biker groups showed up, store windows were smashed, and shops were
looted.
There was talk about "revolutionaries" showing up to destroy the campus
and city and tip off a violent political revolution in the US.


The Governor warned against the Demonstration on May 4th, yet they held
it
anyhow. When the crowd was ordered to disperse, they ignored the
demand.
Tear gas was used to disperse the crowd, but it was only thrown back at
the Guardsmen. A crowd of 1000 students pursued a retreating group of
70
armed Guardsmen...and the Guardsmen opened fire.

WTF did they think would happen when they started pursuing *armed*
Guardsmen with rocks, tear gas canisters, and other projectiles?

It's sad that 3 of the 4 who were killed appear to have been
"observers",
rather than participants. But the blood of those three is on the hands
of
the 1000's of demonstrators who incited the defensive response from the
Guardsmen.



Someone (Gov. Rhodes?) decided to allow the troops to use real bullets.
What a brilliant idea.....NOT!

No one deserved to be shot. No one deserved to be killed.

One can control a crowd with other means......rubber bullets, horses,
water
cannons. All those options were available.

You also have to understand the sentiment about the war at that stage in
time, especially amongst college students.

Did you live through this experience NOYB....how old were you in 1970?


Having been involved in riot control training, I can say that we did *not*
have
rubber bullets for the M-14. Maybe they exist for the M-16 now, but I've
not
heard of them.

Nor is the National Guard issued horses for riot control. Perhaps the
police had
them, but if the police could have handled the problem, why were the Guard
called out?
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

No one is blaming the reserve troops.....they did what they were ordered to
do. The blame goes to the person actually ordering the troops to use live
ammo.

On Wed, 04 May 2005 20:03:41 -0400, JimH wrote:


No one is blaming the reserve troops.....they did what they were ordered
to do. The blame goes to the person actually ordering the troops to use
live ammo.

While the Kent State shootings were a tragedy for all concerned, the
investigation afterwords is truly an embarrassment for this country. In
the bitter divisiveness of that time, the search for any truth took a
backseat.

http://members.aol.com/nrbooks/chronol.htm

For those that are interested, a rather comprehensive site covering the
incident:

http://www.may4archive.org/index.shtml

On Thu, 05 May 2005 07:47:03 -0400, thunder
wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2005 20:03:41 -0400, JimH wrote:


No one is blaming the reserve troops.....they did what they were ordered
to do. The blame goes to the person actually ordering the troops to use
live ammo.

While the Kent State shootings were a tragedy for all concerned, the
investigation afterwords is truly an embarrassment for this country. In
the bitter divisiveness of that time, the search for any truth took a
backseat.

http://members.aol.com/nrbooks/chronol.htm

For those that are interested, a rather comprehensive site covering the
incident:

http://www.may4archive.org/index.shtml

You know what amazes me about this?

It still engenders passions and debate 30/35 years later.

I wonder why? It's not like anybody is ever going to know the
complete truth of what happened so why bother?

Seriously, without looking it up, can you name the girl in the famous
photograph? I sure as hell can't and that photo still haunts me when
I think of Kent State.

We should just leave it alone.

Later,

Tom

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 05 May 2005 07:47:03 -0400, thunder
wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2005 20:03:41 -0400, JimH wrote:


No one is blaming the reserve troops.....they did what they were ordered
to do. The blame goes to the person actually ordering the troops to use
live ammo.

While the Kent State shootings were a tragedy for all concerned, the
investigation afterwords is truly an embarrassment for this country. In
the bitter divisiveness of that time, the search for any truth took a
backseat.

http://members.aol.com/nrbooks/chronol.htm

For those that are interested, a rather comprehensive site covering the
incident:

http://www.may4archive.org/index.shtml

You know what amazes me about this?

It still engenders passions and debate 30/35 years later.

I wonder why? It's not like anybody is ever going to know the
complete truth of what happened so why bother?

Seriously, without looking it up, can you name the girl in the famous
photograph? I sure as hell can't and that photo still haunts me when
I think of Kent State.

We should just leave it alone.

Later,

Tom



One must learn from past mistakes. Using your logic one should not discuss
any past historical events.

There is nothing wrong with this discussion Tom.

On Thu, 5 May 2005 08:41:15 -0400, "JimH" wrote:


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 05 May 2005 07:47:03 -0400, thunder
wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2005 20:03:41 -0400, JimH wrote:


No one is blaming the reserve troops.....they did what they were ordered
to do. The blame goes to the person actually ordering the troops to use
live ammo.

While the Kent State shootings were a tragedy for all concerned, the
investigation afterwords is truly an embarrassment for this country. In
the bitter divisiveness of that time, the search for any truth took a
backseat.

http://members.aol.com/nrbooks/chronol.htm

For those that are interested, a rather comprehensive site covering the
incident:

http://www.may4archive.org/index.shtml

You know what amazes me about this?

It still engenders passions and debate 30/35 years later.

I wonder why? It's not like anybody is ever going to know the
complete truth of what happened so why bother?

Seriously, without looking it up, can you name the girl in the famous
photograph? I sure as hell can't and that photo still haunts me when
I think of Kent State.

We should just leave it alone.

One must learn from past mistakes. Using your logic one should not discuss
any past historical events.

Her. Oh yes - the good old "learn from history" card.

If the human race and "learned from history" where do you think we
would be now Jim?

Please - humans don't learn from history. If they did, we'd be in a
far better place and time.

There is nothing wrong with this discussion Tom.

I didn't say there was anything "wrong" - it's just useless.

Or provocative which I suspect is the purpose in any case.

Later,

Tom

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 5 May 2005 08:41:15 -0400, "JimH" wrote:


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 05 May 2005 07:47:03 -0400, thunder
wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2005 20:03:41 -0400, JimH wrote:


No one is blaming the reserve troops.....they did what they were
ordered
to do. The blame goes to the person actually ordering the troops to
use
live ammo.

While the Kent State shootings were a tragedy for all concerned, the
investigation afterwords is truly an embarrassment for this country.
In
the bitter divisiveness of that time, the search for any truth took a
backseat.

http://members.aol.com/nrbooks/chronol.htm

For those that are interested, a rather comprehensive site covering the
incident:

http://www.may4archive.org/index.shtml

You know what amazes me about this?

It still engenders passions and debate 30/35 years later.

I wonder why? It's not like anybody is ever going to know the
complete truth of what happened so why bother?

Seriously, without looking it up, can you name the girl in the famous
photograph? I sure as hell can't and that photo still haunts me when
I think of Kent State.

We should just leave it alone.

One must learn from past mistakes. Using your logic one should not
discuss
any past historical events.

Her. Oh yes - the good old "learn from history" card.

If the human race and "learned from history" where do you think we
would be now Jim?

If we didn't, where do you think we would be now Tom?



Please - humans don't learn from history. If they did, we'd be in a
far better place and time.

If they didn't we'd be in a far worse place and time.



There is nothing wrong with this discussion Tom.

I didn't say there was anything "wrong" - it's just useless.

Or provocative which I suspect is the purpose in any case.

Later,

Tom

Provocative as in inciting a mature discussion and remembering the
event...yes. Provocative as in trying to start a flame war....no.

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 5 May 2005 08:41:15 -0400, "JimH" wrote:


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 05 May 2005 07:47:03 -0400, thunder
wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2005 20:03:41 -0400, JimH wrote:


No one is blaming the reserve troops.....they did what they were
ordered
to do. The blame goes to the person actually ordering the troops to
use
live ammo.

While the Kent State shootings were a tragedy for all concerned, the
investigation afterwords is truly an embarrassment for this country.
In
the bitter divisiveness of that time, the search for any truth took a
backseat.

http://members.aol.com/nrbooks/chronol.htm

For those that are interested, a rather comprehensive site covering the
incident:

http://www.may4archive.org/index.shtml

You know what amazes me about this?

It still engenders passions and debate 30/35 years later.

I wonder why? It's not like anybody is ever going to know the
complete truth of what happened so why bother?

Seriously, without looking it up, can you name the girl in the famous
photograph? I sure as hell can't and that photo still haunts me when
I think of Kent State.

We should just leave it alone.

One must learn from past mistakes. Using your logic one should not
discuss
any past historical events.

Her. Oh yes - the good old "learn from history" card.

If the human race and "learned from history" where do you think we
would be now Jim?

Please - humans don't learn from history. If they did, we'd be in a
far better place and time.

There is nothing wrong with this discussion Tom.

I didn't say there was anything "wrong" - it's just useless.

Or provocative which I suspect is the purpose in any case.

Later,

Tom

Leaving to help my buddy paint his old Lyman.

Later.

"JimH" wrote in message
news

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 05 May 2005 07:47:03 -0400, thunder
wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2005 20:03:41 -0400, JimH wrote:


No one is blaming the reserve troops.....they did what they were
ordered
to do. The blame goes to the person actually ordering the troops to
use
live ammo.

While the Kent State shootings were a tragedy for all concerned, the
investigation afterwords is truly an embarrassment for this country. In
the bitter divisiveness of that time, the search for any truth took a
backseat.

http://members.aol.com/nrbooks/chronol.htm

For those that are interested, a rather comprehensive site covering the
incident:

http://www.may4archive.org/index.shtml

You know what amazes me about this?

It still engenders passions and debate 30/35 years later.

I wonder why? It's not like anybody is ever going to know the
complete truth of what happened so why bother?

Seriously, without looking it up, can you name the girl in the famous
photograph? I sure as hell can't and that photo still haunts me when
I think of Kent State.

We should just leave it alone.

Later,

Tom



One must learn from past mistakes. Using your logic one should not
discuss any past historical events.

There is nothing wrong with this discussion Tom.

Except that it's not boat related, *AND* you didn't put OT in front of it.

You've jumped into several OT posts (that were marked as such), and
complained that people keep posting OT. And now you've created your own OT
post.

"NOYB" wrote in message
news

"JimH" wrote in message
news

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 05 May 2005 07:47:03 -0400, thunder
wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2005 20:03:41 -0400, JimH wrote:


No one is blaming the reserve troops.....they did what they were
ordered
to do. The blame goes to the person actually ordering the troops to
use
live ammo.

While the Kent State shootings were a tragedy for all concerned, the
investigation afterwords is truly an embarrassment for this country.
In
the bitter divisiveness of that time, the search for any truth took a
backseat.

http://members.aol.com/nrbooks/chronol.htm

For those that are interested, a rather comprehensive site covering the
incident:

http://www.may4archive.org/index.shtml

You know what amazes me about this?

It still engenders passions and debate 30/35 years later.

I wonder why? It's not like anybody is ever going to know the
complete truth of what happened so why bother?

Seriously, without looking it up, can you name the girl in the famous
photograph? I sure as hell can't and that photo still haunts me when
I think of Kent State.

We should just leave it alone.

Later,

Tom



One must learn from past mistakes. Using your logic one should not
discuss any past historical events.

There is nothing wrong with this discussion Tom.

Except that it's not boat related, *AND* you didn't put OT in front of it.

You've jumped into several OT posts (that were marked as such), and
complained that people keep posting OT. And now you've created your own
OT post.


So sue me. Jeesh....have a bad day dude?