On 5 May 2005 05:14:09 -0700, wrote:


John H wrote:

bk, why don't you put your head back up your ass and quit messing
with decent
threads!
--
John H

Uh, oh, John's going off the deep end again. I suppose I'll see this
about a thousand times a day for awhile......
So, John, do you think the above rant is adding anything of value to
this thread?

Much more than did yours!
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

Kevin,
What is wrong with you? You had to take an on topic post and turn it into a
political discussion.

Well since you did, let me respond. You Democratic Borgmen just follow
whatever your party bosses tell you, but some of us are smart enough to
think for themselves. You might have been able to think for yourself if
your mind was not destroyed from excessive drug use. Have you ever figured
out if you graduated from Ga. Tech or Univ. of Penn?






wrote in message
oups.com...

Dr. Dr. K.aren Smithers wrote:
The entire North Atlantic is being so severely overfished that it may
completely collapse by 2010, reveals the first comprehensive survey
of the
entire ocean's fishery.

Since when do YOU care about the environment? Don't you like the
republican creed that anything to do with negative affects on the
environment is voodoo science?

"Dr. Dr. K.aren Smithers" Call180bucme@foragoodtime wrote in message
...
Kevin,
What is wrong with you? You had to take an on topic post and turn it into
a political discussion.

Well since you did, let me respond. You Democratic Borgmen just follow
whatever your party bosses tell you, but some of us are smart enough to
think for themselves. You might have been able to think for yourself if
your mind was not destroyed from excessive drug use. Have you ever
figured out if you graduated from Ga. Tech or Univ. of Penn?

There is no Kevin Noble in the alumni directory at Ga.Tech








wrote in message
oups.com...

Dr. Dr. K.aren Smithers wrote:
The entire North Atlantic is being so severely overfished that it may
completely collapse by 2010, reveals the first comprehensive survey
of the
entire ocean's fishery.

Since when do YOU care about the environment? Don't you like the
republican creed that anything to do with negative affects on the
environment is voodoo science?

P.Fritz wrote:
"Dr. Dr. K.aren Smithers" Call180bucme@foragoodtime wrote in
message
...
Kevin,
What is wrong with you? You had to take an on topic post and turn
it into
a political discussion.

Well since you did, let me respond. You Democratic Borgmen just
follow
whatever your party bosses tell you, but some of us are smart
enough to
think for themselves. You might have been able to think for
yourself if
your mind was not destroyed from excessive drug use. Have you ever

figured out if you graduated from Ga. Tech or Univ. of Penn?

There is no Kevin Noble in the alumni directory at Ga.Tech

Could well be, Fritz.

I agree the North Atlantic hs been overfished for years, but I don't
take much stock out of a report filed by a marine biologist from the U
of British Columbia that pretty much says now they're catching sea
cukes in the Gulf of Maine as table fare, when in reality they sell
99.9% of the cukes they dive for to asian countries, and as far as I
know they've never been considered repulsive to the Asian's that eat
them. Same goes for sea urchins,

I also know the US doesn't subsidize US fishing vessels, so this must be
a canadian thing, As a matter of fact the US has had a permit buyback
program going on for several years, Thats the reason you see so many
F/V's tied to the dock with for sale signs. W/O Permit. UD



http://community.webtv.net/capuglyda...inUglyDansJack

On Wed, 4 May 2005 13:37:03 -0400, "Dr. Dr. K.aren Smithers"
Call180bucme@foragoodtime wrote:

The entire North Atlantic is being so severely overfished that it may
completely collapse by 2010, reveals the first comprehensive survey of the
entire ocean's fishery.

"We'll all be eating jellyfish sandwiches," says Reg Watson, a fisheries
scientist at the University of British Columbia. Putting new ocean-wide
management plans into place is the only way to reverse the trend, Watson and
his colleagues say.

North Atlantic catches have fallen by half since 1950, despite a tripling of
the effort put into catching them. The total number of fish in the ocean has
fallen even further, they say, with just one sixth as many high-quality
"table fish" like cod and tuna as there were in 1900. Fish prices have risen
six fold in real terms in 50 years.

The shortage of table fish has forced a switch to other species. "The
jellyfish sandwich is not a metaphor - jellyfish is being exported from the
US," says Daniel Pauly, also at the University of British Columbia. "In the
Gulf of Maine people were catching cod a few decades ago. Now they're
catching sea cucumber. By earlier standards, these things are repulsive," he
says.

Off limits
The only hope for the fishery is to drastically limit fishing, for instance
by declaring large portions of the ocean off-limits and at the same time
reducing the number of fishing ships. Piecemeal efforts to protect certain
fisheries have only caused the fishing fleet to overfish somewhere else,
such as west Africa.

"It's like shuffling the deckchairs on the Titanic," says Andrew Rosenberg,
at the University of New Hampshire. He says the number of boats must be
reduced: "Less is actually more with fisheries. If you fish less you get
more fish."

Normally, falling catches would drive some fishers out of business. But
government subsidies actually encourage overfishing, Watson says, with
subsidies totalling about $2.5 billion a year in the North Atlantic.

However, Rosenberg was sceptical that any international fishing agreements
currently on the table will turn the tide in a short enough timescale. The
UN's Food and Agriculture Organization and the OECD have initiatives but
these are voluntary, he says. A UN-backed monitoring and enforcement plan of
action is being discussed but could take 10 years to come into force.

Pauly says only a public reaction like that against whaling in the 1970s
would be enough to bring about sufficient change in the way the fish stocks
are managed.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn1940



Over fishing for menhaden is affecting the water quality and other species of
fish in the bay. The government will probably put more restrictions on sport
fishermen and say they've done a good job.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 4 May 2005 13:37:03 -0400, "Dr. Dr. K.aren Smithers"
Call180bucme@foragoodtime wrote:

The entire North Atlantic is being so severely overfished that it may
completely collapse by 2010, reveals the first comprehensive survey of the
entire ocean's fishery.

"We'll all be eating jellyfish sandwiches," says Reg Watson, a fisheries
scientist at the University of British Columbia. Putting new ocean-wide
management plans into place is the only way to reverse the trend, Watson
and
his colleagues say.

North Atlantic catches have fallen by half since 1950, despite a tripling
of
the effort put into catching them. The total number of fish in the ocean
has
fallen even further, they say, with just one sixth as many high-quality
"table fish" like cod and tuna as there were in 1900. Fish prices have
risen
six fold in real terms in 50 years.

The shortage of table fish has forced a switch to other species. "The
jellyfish sandwich is not a metaphor - jellyfish is being exported from
the
US," says Daniel Pauly, also at the University of British Columbia. "In
the
Gulf of Maine people were catching cod a few decades ago. Now they're
catching sea cucumber. By earlier standards, these things are repulsive,"
he
says.

Off limits
The only hope for the fishery is to drastically limit fishing, for
instance
by declaring large portions of the ocean off-limits and at the same time
reducing the number of fishing ships. Piecemeal efforts to protect certain
fisheries have only caused the fishing fleet to overfish somewhere else,
such as west Africa.

"It's like shuffling the deckchairs on the Titanic," says Andrew
Rosenberg,
at the University of New Hampshire. He says the number of boats must be
reduced: "Less is actually more with fisheries. If you fish less you get
more fish."

Normally, falling catches would drive some fishers out of business. But
government subsidies actually encourage overfishing, Watson says, with
subsidies totalling about $2.5 billion a year in the North Atlantic.

However, Rosenberg was sceptical that any international fishing agreements
currently on the table will turn the tide in a short enough timescale. The
UN's Food and Agriculture Organization and the OECD have initiatives but
these are voluntary, he says. A UN-backed monitoring and enforcement plan
of
action is being discussed but could take 10 years to come into force.

Pauly says only a public reaction like that against whaling in the 1970s
would be enough to bring about sufficient change in the way the fish
stocks
are managed.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn1940



Over fishing for menhaden is affecting the water quality and other species
of
fish in the bay. The government will probably put more restrictions on
sport
fishermen and say they've done a good job.

Last year, Florida introduced new regulations to curb the overfishing of
grouper. Commercial guys hit their quota around September, and no more Gulf
grouper could be caught commercially for the rest of the year. The
recreation guys were told that we could keep no more than 5 grouper
total...and only 2 of them could be red grouper (5/2)

This year, the commercial guys seem to have successfully lobbied to get the
recreational limit curbed even further. We may be facing a limit decrease
from 5/2 to 3/1. We also may be facing a *CLOSED* season from October
through December.

What strikes me as incredibly unfair is the fact that recreational anglers
are being assigned equal blame for the decline. We're the majority, yet we
account for only about 10% of the grouper taken from the Gulf.

Overfishing is a problem created by commercial fisherman, and not the fault
of the recreational angler.

"John H" wrote in message
...


Over fishing for menhaden is affecting the water quality and other species
of
fish in the bay. The government will probably put more restrictions on
sport
fishermen and say they've done a good job.

How does it affect water quality?

On Wed, 04 May 2005 21:21:35 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
.. .


Over fishing for menhaden is affecting the water quality and other species
of
fish in the bay. The government will probably put more restrictions on
sport
fishermen and say they've done a good job.

How does it affect water quality?


From: http://www.chesbay.org/forageFish/menhaden.asp

"Atlantic menhaden are the most important and one of the most abundant fish
species in the Chesapeake Bay. During summer months, these fish swim in large
schools and their silvery bodies can often be seen near the water's surface.
Juveniles primarily feed on zooplankton, but adults are mainly herbivores, but
retain the ability to feed on zooplankton. The adults are very adaptable and
will feed on several species of phytoplankton, as well as suspended organic
plant detritus. Atlantic menhaden are an ecologically critical fish species.
They consume and redistribute a significant amount of energy within and between
the Chesapeake Bay and other estuaries, and the coastal ocean. This is due, in
part, to their tremendous numbers, individual growth rate, filter feeding
capacity, and seasonal movements. An adult fish can filter up to a million
gallons of water every 180 days. ***A healthy Atlantic menhaden population has
the potential to consume up to 25% of the Bay's nitrogen in 1-year.*** Menhaden
are also an extremely important prey species for many predatory fish such as
striped bass, bluefish, weakfish, and spanish mackerel. Because or their
schooling behavior, they are also a favorite target for the common loon, herons,
egrets, ospreys, and eagles.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 04 May 2005 21:21:35 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
. ..


Over fishing for menhaden is affecting the water quality and other
species
of
fish in the bay. The government will probably put more restrictions on
sport
fishermen and say they've done a good job.

How does it affect water quality?


From: http://www.chesbay.org/forageFish/menhaden.asp

"Atlantic menhaden are the most important and one of the most abundant
fish
species in the Chesapeake Bay. During summer months, these fish swim in
large
schools and their silvery bodies can often be seen near the water's
surface.
Juveniles primarily feed on zooplankton, but adults are mainly herbivores,
but
retain the ability to feed on zooplankton. The adults are very adaptable
and
will feed on several species of phytoplankton, as well as suspended
organic
plant detritus. Atlantic menhaden are an ecologically critical fish
species.
They consume and redistribute a significant amount of energy within and
between
the Chesapeake Bay and other estuaries, and the coastal ocean. This is
due, in
part, to their tremendous numbers, individual growth rate, filter feeding
capacity, and seasonal movements. An adult fish can filter up to a million
gallons of water every 180 days. ***A healthy Atlantic menhaden population
has
the potential to consume up to 25% of the Bay's nitrogen in 1-year.***
Menhaden
are also an extremely important prey species for many predatory fish such
as
striped bass, bluefish, weakfish, and spanish mackerel. Because or their
schooling behavior, they are also a favorite target for the common loon,
herons,
egrets, ospreys, and eagles.

Amazing! It's like....if the filter on your aquarium dies when you're on
vacation!