OK, so here's the dilemma. I yanked out the 68 Ford 427 from my 70 Century
Resorter last fall. It's now at the rebuild show - and I just heard the bad
news... cracked block (freeze).

I'm debating... find another block (probably a 428 cause those damn
cobra-heads have driven up the cost of a 427), or repower with something
modern. I talked to Vince @ Discount Inboard Marine, and I'm tempted by the
Pleasurecraft 6.0L EFI 375 HP, Aluminum Heads, Fresh Water Cooled for around
$8200. Is it a sin to put a modern powerplant in (somewhat) of a classic
boat? I can't decide. I'd appreciate your opinion on the matter.

Thanks

Excuse my ignorance - what's the difference between Crusader and PCM?
They're both by Pleasurecraft, and the descriptions of the two models are
identical for the 6.0L.




"HarryKrause" wrote in message
...
Douglas St. Clair wrote:
OK, so here's the dilemma. I yanked out the 68 Ford 427 from my 70
Century
Resorter last fall. It's now at the rebuild show - and I just heard the
bad
news... cracked block (freeze).

I'm debating... find another block (probably a 428 cause those damn
cobra-heads have driven up the cost of a 427), or repower with something
modern. I talked to Vince @ Discount Inboard Marine, and I'm tempted by
the
Pleasurecraft 6.0L EFI 375 HP, Aluminum Heads, Fresh Water Cooled for
around
$8200. Is it a sin to put a modern powerplant in (somewhat) of a
classic
boat? I can't decide. I'd appreciate your opinion on the matter.

Thanks




I'd go with the modern engine and enjoy the additional complexity and
perhaps better reliability (not necessarily mutually exclusive).

Seriously, go with the modern engine. And check Crusader Marine. I
always thought they offered the best gas engine marine conversions.




--
Bush and the NeoConvicts who control him
are destroying the once-great United States.

"Douglas St. Clair" wrote in message
...
Excuse my ignorance - what's the difference between Crusader and PCM?
They're both by Pleasurecraft, and the descriptions of the two models are
identical for the 6.0L.



Never mind Krause. He is lost somewhere in outer space.

PCM uses Crusader engines....in the case of the 6 liter marinized GM
engines.

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:23:34 GMT, "Douglas St. Clair"
wrote:

OK, so here's the dilemma. I yanked out the 68 Ford 427 from my 70 Century
Resorter last fall. It's now at the rebuild show - and I just heard the bad
news... cracked block (freeze).

I'm debating... find another block (probably a 428 cause those damn
cobra-heads have driven up the cost of a 427), or repower with something
modern. I talked to Vince @ Discount Inboard Marine, and I'm tempted by the
Pleasurecraft 6.0L EFI 375 HP, Aluminum Heads, Fresh Water Cooled for around
$8200. Is it a sin to put a modern powerplant in (somewhat) of a classic
boat? I can't decide. I'd appreciate your opinion on the matter.

I'm an outboard kind of guy so I'm probably not qualified to discuss
this for you, but just from the antique aspect, I'd go with the 427
block and put it back to original. What the heck - it's an antique
now.

I know a guy who is paying an incredible amount of money to put a '68
Donzi into original condition just because it's an antique. If all
you need to do is install an original engine type, that's what I'd do.

You'd be gaining something by upgrading to newer technology, but it
probably isn't as much as you might think.

Later,

Tom

Not familiar with that boat but unless it is going to be a true classic and
worth money as an original boat I would go w/ the 6.0L EFI.
From a usability, fuel economy, ease of operation, performance, be happy
when your boating point of view there is no doubt in my mind.

--
Tony
my boats and cars at http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com
"Douglas St. Clair" wrote in message
...
OK, so here's the dilemma. I yanked out the 68 Ford 427 from my 70
Century
Resorter last fall. It's now at the rebuild show - and I just heard the
bad
news... cracked block (freeze).

I'm debating... find another block (probably a 428 cause those damn
cobra-heads have driven up the cost of a 427), or repower with something
modern. I talked to Vince @ Discount Inboard Marine, and I'm tempted by
the
Pleasurecraft 6.0L EFI 375 HP, Aluminum Heads, Fresh Water Cooled for
around
$8200. Is it a sin to put a modern powerplant in (somewhat) of a classic
boat? I can't decide. I'd appreciate your opinion on the matter.

Thanks

"JimH" wrote in message
...

"Douglas St. Clair" wrote in message
...
Excuse my ignorance - what's the difference between Crusader and PCM?
They're both by Pleasurecraft, and the descriptions of the two models are
identical for the 6.0L.



Never mind Krause. He is lost somewhere in outer space.

PCM uses Crusader engines....in the case of the 6 liter it is a marinized
GM engines.




edit

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 23:18:06 GMT, "tony thomas"
wrote:

From a usability, fuel economy, ease of operation, performance, be happy
when your boating point of view there is no doubt in my mind.

=========================================

I agree. If you use the boat, as opposed to showing it around as an
antique, I'd go with the new engine, maybe even a 496 MPI. They are
some sweet running engine, with tons of power and decent economy
compared with a carburated 454.

HarryKrause wrote:
Douglas St. Clair wrote:

OK, so here's the dilemma. I yanked out the 68 Ford 427 from my 70
Century
Resorter last fall. It's now at the rebuild show - and I just heard
the bad
news... cracked block (freeze).

I'm debating... find another block (probably a 428 cause those damn
cobra-heads have driven up the cost of a 427), or repower with something
modern. I talked to Vince @ Discount Inboard Marine, and I'm tempted
by the
Pleasurecraft 6.0L EFI 375 HP, Aluminum Heads, Fresh Water Cooled for
around
$8200. Is it a sin to put a modern powerplant in (somewhat) of a classic
boat? I can't decide. I'd appreciate your opinion on the matter.

Thanks




I'd go with the modern engine and enjoy the additional complexity and
perhaps better reliability (not necessarily mutually exclusive).

Seriously, go with the modern engine. And check Crusader Marine. I
always thought they offered the best gas engine marine conversions.


As usual non boating liar Krause tries to bluff his way through a
boating answer & falls flat on his lying arse again:-)

The new engine sounds great of course but hooly dooly!!! US$8200???,
that's of lot of hooch (forgone:-)) for a converted GM petrol engine.

I'm sure you can get the same HP rebuilt, from GM or stick with Ford &
then spend some getting closed cooling (FWC) this is almost a must anyway.

Anyway thanks for the price info still amazed.

K

Here's your Krause lie for the day:-) Yes no trouble at all you're
welcome;-)


So here's just some of the sewerage he's posted about yet "another"
boat he claims to own the fabled "Lobster boat". He's just full of it he
really is, it's a tad long but you need to see the trouble he goes to
try to be believed.

He just a lying union fund mail room employee or in normal speak a
sad bludger. The lying idiot magazine dreams then trawls the net to make
up stories.



Sure. I'm in the market for a new marine diesel of 420-480 shp. I'm
especially
interested in Volvo's TAMD74P EDC, because Volvo has had a lot of
experience with electronic controls in that size diesel. I've dismissed
getting a Cat 3208TA because the technology is so old and because a
couple of
commercial fishermen I know who have had 3208's have, basically,
burned them out.

Thanks. Yes, Cummins is talked about favorably by some of the guys
I've been talking to. Most of them have had experience with Cats,
especially
the 3208, and in recent years some have moved to Volvos.
These are commercial fishermen, mostly, running hulls somewhat
similar to what
we're doing.

No, the diesel is for a new boat we're having built.

Hmmm. A fishing/day cruising boat with some range, nice speed, a
real soft ride, offshore capabilities and sleeping/full head
(with standup shower enclosure)/galley accommodations. Fiberglass,
although the
architect did try to convince me to go with cold-molded wood, which I
do like.
More specifically, I suppose, a lobsta' boat, sort of, if that
brings up a mental image for you.

She'll measure 36' sans a bowsprit x a little more than 12' in beam.
The hull buttom is built down to the keel. There are no chines.
The hull is efficient at displacement and planing speeds. According
to the hull builder, if we keep the weight within certain limits,
we'll achieve
a WOT of about 37-38 mph, and a very easy cruise of 30-32 mph on a single
diesel of about 420-450 hp. She'll cruise slow and economically, too.
We expect a very smooooooooooth riding boat, able to take on a big
headsea at a pretty good clip without beating up the folks inside.
Fitting out a boat like this is going to be an interesting and
stimulating experience. Basically, we get to spec everything and we
end up with
a custom boat

It's Lou Codega. He's a widely known and respected naval architect.
He does Regulator's hulls, too. He's done the Navigator 37. I believe
he's also done designs for Carolina Classic.

Cummins faxed me a bunch of computer generated data today on engine
choices for the new boat.

On the 36-footer, 16,000 pounds displacement:

QSM11 635 hp, 36.3 mph WOT, 32.1 mph at sustained cruise, marine
gear ratio of 1.77, turning a four blade 26x35 prop on a 2.50 inch
Aquamet 22
shaft. Too much engine.

QSM11 535 hp at 2300 rpm, 33.3 mph WOT, 29.5 mph at sustained cruise
of 2100
rpm, same gear ratio, 24x34 prop. Right on the money.

6CTA8.3 450 hp, 30.6 mph WOT, 27.5 mph at sustained cruise, 2.00:1
gear ratio, 24x31 four blade prop on Aquamet 22 2" shaft.

Cummins tells me its program is "about 8% too conservative."


Looks like the QSM11 535 will be the right engine. Its fuel use is
only a little

more than the 450's and a lot less than the 635 hp engine. What I
want is a 30 mph sustained cruise speed, and 535 hp will do it.
Cummins also
figured the boat at 1000 pounds heavier than our target, which is
probably the
smart thing to do.
Besides, the QSM is a new, all computerized design.

The hull form is what got to me. The boat has a substantial keel
and it is a built-down keel, right to its bottom, not just "tacked"
on. It
backs down beautifully. And it seems to roll one heck of a lot less
in a beam
sea than the semi-vee 36 footers I've been on, and especially some
large deep
vee fishing boats of about the same size its been my pleasure to fish
aboard. I
believe it is a function of the keel and the really low center of
gravity.
Amazing, for a boat that is round bilged and fairly flat under the
transom. No
chines. Just splash rails forward and aft. A soft, soft ride...which
is what I
wanted.

For a complete engine w/ EFI to include starter, alternator, belts,
computer, everything ready to go w/ 375 hp that is not bad.

You can get a Chevy 350 Short Block for about 1400 and a long block for
about 1800 but that is not the same engine as this and it really does not
include everything ready to run.

Price an EFI aftermarket kit and see what that adds to the price by itself.

--
Tony
my boats and cars at http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com
"K. Smith" wrote in message
...
HarryKrause wrote:
Douglas St. Clair wrote:

OK, so here's the dilemma. I yanked out the 68 Ford 427 from my 70
Century
Resorter last fall. It's now at the rebuild show - and I just heard the
bad
news... cracked block (freeze).

I'm debating... find another block (probably a 428 cause those damn
cobra-heads have driven up the cost of a 427), or repower with something
modern. I talked to Vince @ Discount Inboard Marine, and I'm tempted by
the
Pleasurecraft 6.0L EFI 375 HP, Aluminum Heads, Fresh Water Cooled for
around
$8200. Is it a sin to put a modern powerplant in (somewhat) of a
classic
boat? I can't decide. I'd appreciate your opinion on the matter.

Thanks




I'd go with the modern engine and enjoy the additional complexity and
perhaps better reliability (not necessarily mutually exclusive).

Seriously, go with the modern engine. And check Crusader Marine. I always
thought they offered the best gas engine marine conversions.


As usual non boating liar Krause tries to bluff his way through a boating
answer & falls flat on his lying arse again:-)

The new engine sounds great of course but hooly dooly!!! US$8200???,
that's of lot of hooch (forgone:-)) for a converted GM petrol engine.

I'm sure you can get the same HP rebuilt, from GM or stick with Ford &
then spend some getting closed cooling (FWC) this is almost a must
anyway.

Anyway thanks for the price info still amazed.

K

Here's your Krause lie for the day:-) Yes no trouble at all you're
welcome;-)


So here's just some of the sewerage he's posted about yet "another"
boat he claims to own the fabled "Lobster boat". He's just full of it he
really is, it's a tad long but you need to see the trouble he goes to try
to be believed.

He just a lying union fund mail room employee or in normal speak a sad
bludger. The lying idiot magazine dreams then trawls the net to make up
stories.



Sure. I'm in the market for a new marine diesel of 420-480 shp. I'm
especially
interested in Volvo's TAMD74P EDC, because Volvo has had a lot of
experience with electronic controls in that size diesel. I've dismissed
getting a Cat 3208TA because the technology is so old and because a
couple of
commercial fishermen I know who have had 3208's have, basically,
burned them out.

Thanks. Yes, Cummins is talked about favorably by some of the guys
I've been talking to. Most of them have had experience with Cats,
especially
the 3208, and in recent years some have moved to Volvos.
These are commercial fishermen, mostly, running hulls somewhat
similar to what
we're doing.

No, the diesel is for a new boat we're having built.

Hmmm. A fishing/day cruising boat with some range, nice speed, a
real soft ride, offshore capabilities and sleeping/full head
(with standup shower enclosure)/galley accommodations. Fiberglass,
although the
architect did try to convince me to go with cold-molded wood, which I
do like.
More specifically, I suppose, a lobsta' boat, sort of, if that
brings up a mental image for you.

She'll measure 36' sans a bowsprit x a little more than 12' in beam.
The hull buttom is built down to the keel. There are no chines.
The hull is efficient at displacement and planing speeds. According
to the hull builder, if we keep the weight within certain limits,
we'll achieve
a WOT of about 37-38 mph, and a very easy cruise of 30-32 mph on a
single
diesel of about 420-450 hp. She'll cruise slow and economically, too.
We expect a very smooooooooooth riding boat, able to take on a big
headsea at a pretty good clip without beating up the folks inside.
Fitting out a boat like this is going to be an interesting and
stimulating experience. Basically, we get to spec everything and we
end up with
a custom boat

It's Lou Codega. He's a widely known and respected naval architect.
He does Regulator's hulls, too. He's done the Navigator 37. I believe he's
also done designs for Carolina Classic.

Cummins faxed me a bunch of computer generated data today on engine
choices for the new boat.

On the 36-footer, 16,000 pounds displacement:

QSM11 635 hp, 36.3 mph WOT, 32.1 mph at sustained cruise, marine
gear ratio of 1.77, turning a four blade 26x35 prop on a 2.50 inch
Aquamet 22
shaft. Too much engine.

QSM11 535 hp at 2300 rpm, 33.3 mph WOT, 29.5 mph at sustained cruise
of 2100
rpm, same gear ratio, 24x34 prop. Right on the money.

6CTA8.3 450 hp, 30.6 mph WOT, 27.5 mph at sustained cruise, 2.00:1
gear ratio, 24x31 four blade prop on Aquamet 22 2" shaft.

Cummins tells me its program is "about 8% too conservative."


Looks like the QSM11 535 will be the right engine. Its fuel use is only a
little

more than the 450's and a lot less than the 635 hp engine. What I
want is a 30 mph sustained cruise speed, and 535 hp will do it.
Cummins also
figured the boat at 1000 pounds heavier than our target, which is
probably the
smart thing to do.
Besides, the QSM is a new, all computerized design.

The hull form is what got to me. The boat has a substantial keel
and it is a built-down keel, right to its bottom, not just "tacked"
on. It
backs down beautifully. And it seems to roll one heck of a lot less
in a beam
sea than the semi-vee 36 footers I've been on, and especially some
large deep
vee fishing boats of about the same size its been my pleasure to fish
aboard. I
believe it is a function of the keel and the really low center of
gravity.
Amazing, for a boat that is round bilged and fairly flat under the
transom. No
chines. Just splash rails forward and aft. A soft, soft ride...which
is what I
wanted.

tony thomas wrote:
For a complete engine w/ EFI to include starter, alternator, belts,
computer, everything ready to go w/ 375 hp that is not bad.

You can get a Chevy 350 Short Block for about 1400 and a long block for
about 1800 but that is not the same engine as this and it really does not
include everything ready to run.

Price an EFI aftermarket kit and see what that adds to the price by itself.


I take your point Tony, but knowing GM powertrain sell "complete crate"
marine setups to OEMs at pretty good prices; including the Vortec 8100
which this probably is????, I was surprised.

The "marine" injection systems, marine ECMs, marine specific cams etc
are not after market (although GM might have outsourced) they're all GM
stuff not Brunswick etc, if an OEM orders a marine crate with all the
options it's all in there, even up to 420HP.

Of course using closed coolant cooling obviates the need for a specific
"Marine" core, so save the cam profile it's potentially cheaper again.
I'm not suggesting it isn't a marine core, just pointing out that going
closed cooling opens up to some bigger HP options.

If that's the going rate then that's the going rate, besides HP for HP
it looks bloody cheap compared to some of the new OBs:-)

K

Todays Krause lie is a recent one, not wanting anyone to think he's
reformed:-) He lies now just as he always has:-)

It's the total idiot who can never even enter a real boating thread,
trying to convince the really gullible he is the real boating deal,
which he aint:-)

Note if you will, the school boy liar rouse if excessive detail??? then
the need to pretend "he" was special as always & the pre dealing &
explanantions with the implausible parts of the lie; trouble is the
uneducated dumb liar still knows next to nothing about boats nor boating!!!



I took my *first* course, in piloting, with my then best friend, Steve, when
we were about 11-12 years old, by special dispensation of the US Power
Squadron in New Haven, Connecticut. The class was held in the evenings
in the
basement of one of the Sheffield scientific buildings, on Prospect
Street, if
I recall, on the campus of Yale University, across from Woolsey Hall. Our
parents dropped us off and picked us up; the classes were in the evenings.

We were at that time the two youngest enrollees in such a course in the
history of the USPS. We completed the course successfully. It was about 45
years ago, when piloting and navigation were done with hand instruments.

How did we get in at such an early age? Both of us had started yacht club
sailboat racing in dinghies at the age of 8, and by the time we were 11,
were
working individually and as a team, competing successfully in southern
Connecticut junior racing circuits. It also didn't hurt that my father was a
boat dealer and marina operator and also a by-then retired boat racer of
some
fame, and that Steve's dad was a well-known sailboater out of the Branford,
Connecticut, area.

Steve now sails out of the Maritime Provinces.