It didn't ever occur to you that Social Security shouldn't be your main
retirement plan, that it is neither an investment program nor insurance,
and yet you try to make pinheaded comparisons to "prove" that Social
Security is somehow bad.

No wonder the country is in such a mess, with politics based on such
stupidity.


Bill McKee wrote:
You must not comprehend what you read.

No, I comprehend quite well.

You have made false claims, and made several misrepresentations about
what Social Security is, and what SS does. Then, having ranted against
the evils of socialism, you announce that you'll accept socialism quite
happily when it puts money in your pocket even when you don't need it.


... I have argued for a long time that
SS is not a retirement plan. But lots here think it is the national
retirement plan. Keep the old living large.

???

Who exactly is "living large" on Social Security?


DSK

Bill McKee wrote:
Why are you so bitter?

???

Am I the one making false claims?
Am I the one who is revealed as a hypocrit?
Am I the one who's been lying to promote his political ideas?

I'm not bitter at all, just mildly amused at the moral bankruptcy of
those try to "reform" Social Security for the benefit of the wealthy.

... You have no money are are depending on SS?

Hardly.


... Keep working and
sending me that money. Will pay for the new motor for the boat in about 6
months.


Good. I hope your coronary holds off long enough to get some use out of
it. Meanwhile, enjoy your socialist benefits, comrade... just don't call
yourself "conservative."

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
It didn't ever occur to you that Social Security shouldn't be your main
retirement plan, that it is neither an investment program nor insurance,
and yet you try to make pinheaded comparisons to "prove" that Social
Security is somehow bad.

No wonder the country is in such a mess, with politics based on such
stupidity.


Bill McKee wrote:
You must not comprehend what you read.

No, I comprehend quite well.


You lie.

You have made false claims, and made several misrepresentations about what
Social Security is, and what SS does. Then, having ranted against the
evils of socialism, you announce that you'll accept socialism quite
happily when it puts money in your pocket even when you don't need it.



I made no false claims. You lie again. I paid in, I will take the money.
and then the Goverment will take back some via taxation.

... I have argued for a long time that SS is not a retirement plan. But
lots here think it is the national retirement plan. Keep the old living
large.

???

Who exactly is "living large" on Social Security?


DSK

You lying idiot. I made no false claims, you are the one saying that the SS
money returns more to you via the government than though private investment.
You are the hypocrite. You figure you are rich and smart, and the poor are
to stupid to figure out that they have been screwed by the government. You
may be right on the last part. The poor are the ones who need SS reform.
Even Roosevelt, stated there need to be some privatization of SS.

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
Bill McKee wrote:
Why are you so bitter?

???

Am I the one making false claims?
Am I the one who is revealed as a hypocrit?
Am I the one who's been lying to promote his political ideas?

I'm not bitter at all, just mildly amused at the moral bankruptcy of those
try to "reform" Social Security for the benefit of the wealthy.

... You have no money are are depending on SS?

Hardly.


... Keep working and sending me that money. Will pay for the new motor
for the boat in about 6 months.

Good. I hope your coronary holds off long enough to get some use out of
it. Meanwhile, enjoy your socialist benefits, comrade... just don't call
yourself "conservative."

DSK

Bill McKee wrote:
You lie.


Let me get this straight- you've stated that one can buy a private
insurance policy that will cover everything Social Security offers,
cheaper... and you say that I lie.

You claim that Social Security is an investment program that should
offer better retirement income... and you say that I lie.


I made no false claims. You lie again.

Apparently, your idea of "truth" could be better defined as "any fact
which makes me uncomfortable.

And you have no better way of grasping reality than to call others names.

Getting back to Social Security:
... I paid in, I will take the money.

But it's not your money that you're taking. It's an entitlement that
comes straight from other's tax payments. No better, morally, than welfare.



Who exactly is "living large" on Social Security?


And you apparently can't answer this question, either.

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
Bill McKee wrote:
You lie.


Let me get this straight- you've stated that one can buy a private
insurance policy that will cover everything Social Security offers,
cheaper... and you say that I lie.


You can buy and invest the annual amount of SS contributions and get a much
better return. SS has an annual return of -0.1%. Pretty easy to beat that
return.

You claim that Social Security is an investment program that should offer
better retirement income... and you say that I lie.


Never said that. I said SS is a poor return on the money contributed.
There is no investment to SS.

I made no false claims. You lie again.

Apparently, your idea of "truth" could be better defined as "any fact
which makes me uncomfortable.

And you have no better way of grasping reality than to call others names.

Getting back to Social Security:
... I paid in, I will take the money.

But it's not your money that you're taking. It's an entitlement that comes
straight from other's tax payments. No better, morally, than welfare.



Who exactly is "living large" on Social Security?


And you apparently can't answer this question, either.

DSK


You are beyond comprehending. Go back to the first person who retired on
SS. She paid in about $26.30 and got back thousands. She is one of the
last people to get this big a return. Figure someone 80 years old. SS pays
them about $1600 a month and the wife gets 70% of her husband. That person
and their employer paid $660 a year until about 1964, They get a very good
return on their minimum contributions. Now lets jump forward to the 25 year
old making $85k a year. Also maximum payments into SS. They (and the
employer) are paying about 16%+ of the that $85k about $14,000 a year. They
reach 70 and they collect maybe $1700 a month ignoring inflation (which is
also ignored on the contribution side. They live 15 years and get a return
of $306,000 but they have paid in 45*18,000=$810,000 And you say they could
not get a better insurance policy for this much money. You better get a
better financial advisor.

Bill McKee wrote:
You can buy and invest the annual amount of SS contributions and get a much
better return. SS has an annual return of -0.1%. Pretty easy to beat that
return.


True, but Social Security is not an investment program.

Is this a red herring to distract yourself from your previous outright
lies? Just a little misdirection and obfuscation, it always helps
doesn't it...




Who exactly is "living large" on Social Security?


And you apparently can't answer this question, either.

DSK



You are beyond comprehending. Go back to the first person who retired on
SS. She paid in about $26.30 and got back thousands. She is one of the
last people to get this big a return.

Again you miss the point... Social Security is not an investment program.

If you want to paint Social Security as a failure, try something other
than blatant lies and not-so-artful misdirection.

Who exactly is "living large" on Social Security?

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Bill McKee wrote:
You can buy and invest the annual amount of SS contributions and get a
much better return. SS has an annual return of -0.1%. Pretty easy to
beat that return.


True, but Social Security is not an investment program.

Is this a red herring to distract yourself from your previous outright
lies? Just a little misdirection and obfuscation, it always helps doesn't
it...




Who exactly is "living large" on Social Security?


And you apparently can't answer this question, either.

DSK



You are beyond comprehending. Go back to the first person who retired on
SS. She paid in about $26.30 and got back thousands. She is one of the
last people to get this big a return.

Again you miss the point... Social Security is not an investment program.

If you want to paint Social Security as a failure, try something other
than blatant lies and not-so-artful misdirection.

Who exactly is "living large" on Social Security?

DSK


I always said it was not an investment proigram. As well as not the
national retirement program.

Bill McKee wrote:
I always said it was not an investment proigram.

Then why do you keep comparing it to investment programs, and talking
about "returns"?

Can you not discuss the issue without some kind of inherent dishonesty
in your approach? Or would that leave the only option of abandoning your
preconceived "solutions"?

... As well as not the
national retirement program.


You're right, it isn't... except for those who are either too poor or
too dumb to save up for their own future. Your point is... ??

And please answer the question... just exactly *who* are you accusing of
"living large" on Social Security?

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
Bill McKee wrote:
I always said it was not an investment proigram.

Then why do you keep comparing it to investment programs, and talking
about "returns"?

Can you not discuss the issue without some kind of inherent dishonesty in
your approach? Or would that leave the only option of abandoning your
preconceived "solutions"?

... As well as not the national retirement program.

You're right, it isn't... except for those who are either too poor or too
dumb to save up for their own future. Your point is... ??

And please answer the question... just exactly *who* are you accusing of
"living large" on Social Security?

DSK


You and your side are the ones saying it is the national retirement plan and
you get a good return on you money. Neither is true. And the plan put
forward by Bush allows you to either leave the tax money in SS (WHICH THE
GOVERNMENT IS HAPPILY SPENDING NOW) or put part in a private investment
account. You do not get to keep and spend the money each month like a raise
in pay.