SWF,
From you smile, I assume your rant was not an attack on anyone, but just to
a misconception that many people have. If the leader is not used to create
a more attractive "bait" for the fish to hit, what is the reason for the
leader? I understand that a metal leader is used to stop the fish from
cutting the line, but why use a 25 ft leader? In my ignorance, I have
always thought the long leader line was used because it was invisible in the
water, and would look more like a bait fish instead of bait being dragged
though the water.

Is your suggestion that John H. can just use a 2 ft. leader instead of his
30 ft. leader he has been using?


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 19:14:41 GMT, "John Smith"
wrote:

For some reason I thought it was because the leader was less visable to
the
fish, so they are less likely to be spooked.

Oh oh - I feel a rant coming on. :)

I've always been interested in the whole "spook the fish" concept
because I believe it's a superstitution or rational for a poor day on
the water not catching fish.

The whole point of using a bait or attractor is to trigger a fish into
striking. It seems counter intuitive that the same bait would "spook"
a fish into not striking.

Fish don't take bait for any number of other reasons, but "spooking"
fish isn't one of them.

Whew - I got my point across with a rant - Dude!!!!

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
-----------
"Do fishermen eat avocados? This is a question
that no one ever thinks to ask."

Russel Chatham, "Dark Waters" (1988)

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 22:28:01 GMT, "John Smith"
wrote:

SWF,
From you smile, I assume your rant was not an attack on anyone, but just to
a misconception that many people have. If the leader is not used to create
a more attractive "bait" for the fish to hit, what is the reason for the
leader? I understand that a metal leader is used to stop the fish from
cutting the line, but why use a 25 ft leader? In my ignorance, I have
always thought the long leader line was used because it was invisible in the
water, and would look more like a bait fish instead of bait being dragged
though the water.

Is your suggestion that John H. can just use a 2 ft. leader instead of his
30 ft. leader he has been using?

Yes.

A lot of fishing is personal opinion, experience and ability to
translate experience into catching fish. In some things, assumptions
are made that may not be accurate or based on anything scientific. It
seems that most "opinion" is actually anecdotal and not studied with
any type of rigor.

If you read between the lines of the various studies on fish behavior,
it seems more related to time, place and weather than having the color
lure or leader du jour.

If you have ever been to one of those sporting shows where they have
the "hog" tank, you will see what I mean. These fish are transported
from a farm, put into the tank, they are "fished" all weekend in
demonstrations - they sure as hell aren't "spooked".

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
-----------
"Do fishermen eat avocados? This is a question
that no one ever thinks to ask."

Russel Chatham, "Dark Waters" (1988)

Well maybe John can do a scientific study on rock fish and see if he notices
any change between the short leader and the long one. : )

John, let us know what happens.



"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 22:28:01 GMT, "John Smith"
wrote:

SWF,
From you smile, I assume your rant was not an attack on anyone, but just
to
a misconception that many people have. If the leader is not used to
create
a more attractive "bait" for the fish to hit, what is the reason for the
leader? I understand that a metal leader is used to stop the fish from
cutting the line, but why use a 25 ft leader? In my ignorance, I have
always thought the long leader line was used because it was invisible in
the
water, and would look more like a bait fish instead of bait being dragged
though the water.

Is your suggestion that John H. can just use a 2 ft. leader instead of
his
30 ft. leader he has been using?

Yes.

A lot of fishing is personal opinion, experience and ability to
translate experience into catching fish. In some things, assumptions
are made that may not be accurate or based on anything scientific. It
seems that most "opinion" is actually anecdotal and not studied with
any type of rigor.

If you read between the lines of the various studies on fish behavior,
it seems more related to time, place and weather than having the color
lure or leader du jour.

If you have ever been to one of those sporting shows where they have
the "hog" tank, you will see what I mean. These fish are transported
from a farm, put into the tank, they are "fished" all weekend in
demonstrations - they sure as hell aren't "spooked".

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
-----------
"Do fishermen eat avocados? This is a question
that no one ever thinks to ask."

Russel Chatham, "Dark Waters" (1988)

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 04:15:43 GMT, "John Smith"
wrote:

Well maybe John can do a scientific study on rock fish and see if he notices
any change between the short leader and the long one. : )

John, let us know what happens.


You got it.

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 08:04:00 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 04:15:43 GMT, "John Smith"
wrote:

Well maybe John can do a scientific study on rock fish and see if he notices
any change between the short leader and the long one. : )

John, let us know what happens.

You got it.

Make sure that you have at least twelve references, properly annotated
and cross referenced with illustrations.

Then we can all sit back and say "Well, in MY experience..." :)

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
-----------
"Do fishermen eat avocados? This is a question
that no one ever thinks to ask."

Russel Chatham, "Dark Waters" (1988)

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 13:09:40 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 08:04:00 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 04:15:43 GMT, "John Smith"
wrote:

Well maybe John can do a scientific study on rock fish and see if he notices
any change between the short leader and the long one. : )

John, let us know what happens.

You got it.

Make sure that you have at least twelve references, properly annotated
and cross referenced with illustrations.

Then we can all sit back and say "Well, in MY experience..." :)

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
-----------
"Do fishermen eat avocados? This is a question
that no one ever thinks to ask."

Russel Chatham, "Dark Waters" (1988)

Do I have to provide pictures of me kissing the (striped) bass?

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"John H" wrote in message
...

Do I have to provide pictures of me kissing the (striped) bass?

No, kissing rockfish is easy, kissing blue fish taks a real man

Bert

Pictures of the fish in the fryer would be acceptable. :^)



John H wrote:

Do I have to provide pictures of me kissing the (striped) bass?

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 09:07:33 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 13:09:40 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 08:04:00 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 04:15:43 GMT, "John Smith"
wrote:

Well maybe John can do a scientific study on rock fish and see if he notices
any change between the short leader and the long one. : )

John, let us know what happens.

You got it.

Make sure that you have at least twelve references, properly annotated
and cross referenced with illustrations.

Then we can all sit back and say "Well, in MY experience..." :)

Do I have to provide pictures of me kissing the (striped) bass?

On the first date?

Hell no!!! :)

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
-----------
"Do fishermen eat avocados? This is a question
that no one ever thinks to ask."

Russel Chatham, "Dark Waters" (1988)

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 22:28:01 GMT, "John Smith"
wrote:

SWF,
From you smile, I assume your rant was not an attack on anyone, but just to
a misconception that many people have. If the leader is not used to create
a more attractive "bait" for the fish to hit, what is the reason for the
leader? I understand that a metal leader is used to stop the fish from
cutting the line, but why use a 25 ft leader? In my ignorance, I have
always thought the long leader line was used because it was invisible in the
water, and would look more like a bait fish instead of bait being dragged
though the water.

Is your suggestion that John H. can just use a 2 ft. leader instead of his
30 ft. leader he has been using?


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 19:14:41 GMT, "John Smith"
wrote:

For some reason I thought it was because the leader was less visable to
the
fish, so they are less likely to be spooked.

Oh oh - I feel a rant coming on. :)

I've always been interested in the whole "spook the fish" concept
because I believe it's a superstitution or rational for a poor day on
the water not catching fish.

The whole point of using a bait or attractor is to trigger a fish into
striking. It seems counter intuitive that the same bait would "spook"
a fish into not striking.

Fish don't take bait for any number of other reasons, but "spooking"
fish isn't one of them.

Whew - I got my point across with a rant - Dude!!!!

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
-----------
"Do fishermen eat avocados? This is a question
that no one ever thinks to ask."

Russel Chatham, "Dark Waters" (1988)


Two feet is too short. I use braided line which will cut right through
flesh. Therefore, I need a leader (heavy duty monofilament - 80lb test
is common) that I can grab and use to pull the fish into the net. To
do so, I must first put the rod down. That means I need about 8 feet
or so of leader. But I don't need 30 feet of leader to accomplish
that. Using that much leader just creates a hell of a mess to
straighten out once the fish is put in the cooler.

This year I'm going with shorter leaders. If I catch nothing and
others are catching limits, then I'll switch. I haven't had a good
reason for the 30' leaders, other than "that's the traditional way."

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!