On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:12:11 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 20:37:57 -0500, John H
wrote:

Many of the folks who troll for striped bass (rockfish or stripers)
use a leader which totals about 30' in length. Is that much leader
necessary? I use braided line, so I need *some* leader to allow for
pulling a 40" fish from the water without cutting my fingers off. I'm
wondering why I couldn't get by with about 8' or so.

Ideas?

For stripers, I use the slip sinker rig (1 - 1 1/2 oz)

http://www.vaboatandbeach.com/images/tacksliprig6.jpg

with 18/20 inches of florocarbon leader (25 lb test) to a snelled
hook, usually a barbless circle hook. Sometimes I might use a 5 or
6/0 barbless O'Shaugnessy depending on which bait - live eels or Ledge
Runner eel imitations.

I don't like wire leaders for inshore work and prefer florocarbon up
to 30 lb. Having said that, I made up some blood red wire leaders
this winter - same configuration as above. In theory, the leaders are
supposed to disappear underwater. We'll see.

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
-----------
"Do fishermen eat avocados? This is a question
that no one ever thinks to ask."

Russel Chatham, "Dark Waters" (1988)

I use a similar rig when bottom fishing, but I was asking about the
"requirement" for 30 feet of leader when trolling. That's the one I
can't understand.

Thanks for the reply.

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:47:47 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:12:11 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 20:37:57 -0500, John H
wrote:

Many of the folks who troll for striped bass (rockfish or stripers)
use a leader which totals about 30' in length. Is that much leader
necessary? I use braided line, so I need *some* leader to allow for
pulling a 40" fish from the water without cutting my fingers off. I'm
wondering why I couldn't get by with about 8' or so.

Ideas?

For stripers, I use the slip sinker rig (1 - 1 1/2 oz)

http://www.vaboatandbeach.com/images/tacksliprig6.jpg

with 18/20 inches of florocarbon leader (25 lb test) to a snelled
hook, usually a barbless circle hook. Sometimes I might use a 5 or
6/0 barbless O'Shaugnessy depending on which bait - live eels or Ledge
Runner eel imitations.

I don't like wire leaders for inshore work and prefer florocarbon up
to 30 lb. Having said that, I made up some blood red wire leaders
this winter - same configuration as above. In theory, the leaders are
supposed to disappear underwater. We'll see.

I use a similar rig when bottom fishing, but I was asking about the
"requirement" for 30 feet of leader when trolling. That's the one I
can't understand.

Thanks for the reply.

Sorry John, I misunderstood. My bad. Then again, I couldn't half
see this morning. :)

That's a good question. Just a guess on my part, it probably has to
do with how the some think the bait is taken. That seems to come up a
lot at seminars and taking to various charter captains. Longer leader
means a better feel to the fish and more hook ups.

I'm not convinced of that.

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
-----------
"Do fishermen eat avocados? This is a question
that no one ever thinks to ask."

Russel Chatham, "Dark Waters" (1988)

For some reason I thought it was because the leader was less visable to the
fish, so they are less likely to be spooked.


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:47:47 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:12:11 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 20:37:57 -0500, John H
wrote:

Many of the folks who troll for striped bass (rockfish or stripers)
use a leader which totals about 30' in length. Is that much leader
necessary? I use braided line, so I need *some* leader to allow for
pulling a 40" fish from the water without cutting my fingers off. I'm
wondering why I couldn't get by with about 8' or so.

Ideas?

For stripers, I use the slip sinker rig (1 - 1 1/2 oz)

http://www.vaboatandbeach.com/images/tacksliprig6.jpg

with 18/20 inches of florocarbon leader (25 lb test) to a snelled
hook, usually a barbless circle hook. Sometimes I might use a 5 or
6/0 barbless O'Shaugnessy depending on which bait - live eels or Ledge
Runner eel imitations.

I don't like wire leaders for inshore work and prefer florocarbon up
to 30 lb. Having said that, I made up some blood red wire leaders
this winter - same configuration as above. In theory, the leaders are
supposed to disappear underwater. We'll see.

I use a similar rig when bottom fishing, but I was asking about the
"requirement" for 30 feet of leader when trolling. That's the one I
can't understand.

Thanks for the reply.

Sorry John, I misunderstood. My bad. Then again, I couldn't half
see this morning. :)

That's a good question. Just a guess on my part, it probably has to
do with how the some think the bait is taken. That seems to come up a
lot at seminars and taking to various charter captains. Longer leader
means a better feel to the fish and more hook ups.

I'm not convinced of that.

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
-----------
"Do fishermen eat avocados? This is a question
that no one ever thinks to ask."

Russel Chatham, "Dark Waters" (1988)

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 19:14:41 GMT, "John Smith"
wrote:

For some reason I thought it was because the leader was less visable to the
fish, so they are less likely to be spooked.

Oh oh - I feel a rant coming on. :)

I've always been interested in the whole "spook the fish" concept
because I believe it's a superstitution or rational for a poor day on
the water not catching fish.

The whole point of using a bait or attractor is to trigger a fish into
striking. It seems counter intuitive that the same bait would "spook"
a fish into not striking.

Fish don't take bait for any number of other reasons, but "spooking"
fish isn't one of them.

Whew - I got my point across with a rant - Dude!!!!

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
-----------
"Do fishermen eat avocados? This is a question
that no one ever thinks to ask."

Russel Chatham, "Dark Waters" (1988)

SWF,
From you smile, I assume your rant was not an attack on anyone, but just to
a misconception that many people have. If the leader is not used to create
a more attractive "bait" for the fish to hit, what is the reason for the
leader? I understand that a metal leader is used to stop the fish from
cutting the line, but why use a 25 ft leader? In my ignorance, I have
always thought the long leader line was used because it was invisible in the
water, and would look more like a bait fish instead of bait being dragged
though the water.

Is your suggestion that John H. can just use a 2 ft. leader instead of his
30 ft. leader he has been using?


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 19:14:41 GMT, "John Smith"
wrote:

For some reason I thought it was because the leader was less visable to
the
fish, so they are less likely to be spooked.

Oh oh - I feel a rant coming on. :)

I've always been interested in the whole "spook the fish" concept
because I believe it's a superstitution or rational for a poor day on
the water not catching fish.

The whole point of using a bait or attractor is to trigger a fish into
striking. It seems counter intuitive that the same bait would "spook"
a fish into not striking.

Fish don't take bait for any number of other reasons, but "spooking"
fish isn't one of them.

Whew - I got my point across with a rant - Dude!!!!

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
-----------
"Do fishermen eat avocados? This is a question
that no one ever thinks to ask."

Russel Chatham, "Dark Waters" (1988)

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 22:28:01 GMT, "John Smith"
wrote:

SWF,
From you smile, I assume your rant was not an attack on anyone, but just to
a misconception that many people have. If the leader is not used to create
a more attractive "bait" for the fish to hit, what is the reason for the
leader? I understand that a metal leader is used to stop the fish from
cutting the line, but why use a 25 ft leader? In my ignorance, I have
always thought the long leader line was used because it was invisible in the
water, and would look more like a bait fish instead of bait being dragged
though the water.

Is your suggestion that John H. can just use a 2 ft. leader instead of his
30 ft. leader he has been using?

Yes.

A lot of fishing is personal opinion, experience and ability to
translate experience into catching fish. In some things, assumptions
are made that may not be accurate or based on anything scientific. It
seems that most "opinion" is actually anecdotal and not studied with
any type of rigor.

If you read between the lines of the various studies on fish behavior,
it seems more related to time, place and weather than having the color
lure or leader du jour.

If you have ever been to one of those sporting shows where they have
the "hog" tank, you will see what I mean. These fish are transported
from a farm, put into the tank, they are "fished" all weekend in
demonstrations - they sure as hell aren't "spooked".

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
-----------
"Do fishermen eat avocados? This is a question
that no one ever thinks to ask."

Russel Chatham, "Dark Waters" (1988)

Well maybe John can do a scientific study on rock fish and see if he notices
any change between the short leader and the long one. : )

John, let us know what happens.



"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 22:28:01 GMT, "John Smith"
wrote:

SWF,
From you smile, I assume your rant was not an attack on anyone, but just
to
a misconception that many people have. If the leader is not used to
create
a more attractive "bait" for the fish to hit, what is the reason for the
leader? I understand that a metal leader is used to stop the fish from
cutting the line, but why use a 25 ft leader? In my ignorance, I have
always thought the long leader line was used because it was invisible in
the
water, and would look more like a bait fish instead of bait being dragged
though the water.

Is your suggestion that John H. can just use a 2 ft. leader instead of
his
30 ft. leader he has been using?

Yes.

A lot of fishing is personal opinion, experience and ability to
translate experience into catching fish. In some things, assumptions
are made that may not be accurate or based on anything scientific. It
seems that most "opinion" is actually anecdotal and not studied with
any type of rigor.

If you read between the lines of the various studies on fish behavior,
it seems more related to time, place and weather than having the color
lure or leader du jour.

If you have ever been to one of those sporting shows where they have
the "hog" tank, you will see what I mean. These fish are transported
from a farm, put into the tank, they are "fished" all weekend in
demonstrations - they sure as hell aren't "spooked".

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
-----------
"Do fishermen eat avocados? This is a question
that no one ever thinks to ask."

Russel Chatham, "Dark Waters" (1988)

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 22:28:01 GMT, "John Smith"
wrote:

SWF,
From you smile, I assume your rant was not an attack on anyone, but just to
a misconception that many people have. If the leader is not used to create
a more attractive "bait" for the fish to hit, what is the reason for the
leader? I understand that a metal leader is used to stop the fish from
cutting the line, but why use a 25 ft leader? In my ignorance, I have
always thought the long leader line was used because it was invisible in the
water, and would look more like a bait fish instead of bait being dragged
though the water.

Is your suggestion that John H. can just use a 2 ft. leader instead of his
30 ft. leader he has been using?


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 19:14:41 GMT, "John Smith"
wrote:

For some reason I thought it was because the leader was less visable to
the
fish, so they are less likely to be spooked.

Oh oh - I feel a rant coming on. :)

I've always been interested in the whole "spook the fish" concept
because I believe it's a superstitution or rational for a poor day on
the water not catching fish.

The whole point of using a bait or attractor is to trigger a fish into
striking. It seems counter intuitive that the same bait would "spook"
a fish into not striking.

Fish don't take bait for any number of other reasons, but "spooking"
fish isn't one of them.

Whew - I got my point across with a rant - Dude!!!!

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
-----------
"Do fishermen eat avocados? This is a question
that no one ever thinks to ask."

Russel Chatham, "Dark Waters" (1988)


Two feet is too short. I use braided line which will cut right through
flesh. Therefore, I need a leader (heavy duty monofilament - 80lb test
is common) that I can grab and use to pull the fish into the net. To
do so, I must first put the rod down. That means I need about 8 feet
or so of leader. But I don't need 30 feet of leader to accomplish
that. Using that much leader just creates a hell of a mess to
straighten out once the fish is put in the cooler.

This year I'm going with shorter leaders. If I catch nothing and
others are catching limits, then I'll switch. I haven't had a good
reason for the 30' leaders, other than "that's the traditional way."

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 19:09:41 -0500, John H
wrote:

I haven't had a good
reason for the 30' leaders, other than "that's the traditional way."
==========================================

30 feet sounds like a lot to me. I troll with wire line and use about
10 feet of heavy mono for a leader, but I'm no expert. Some days I
catch fish and some days I don't.

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 19:09:41 -0500, John H
wrote:

~~ snippity do da ~~

Two feet is too short. I use braided line which will cut right through
flesh. Therefore, I need a leader (heavy duty monofilament - 80lb test
is common) that I can grab and use to pull the fish into the net. To
do so, I must first put the rod down. That means I need about 8 feet
or so of leader. But I don't need 30 feet of leader to accomplish
that. Using that much leader just creates a hell of a mess to
straighten out once the fish is put in the cooler.

Use what you will - that's my point. Two feet works for me inshore
because my inshore boat has low freeboard and I almost never take a
fish out of the water once it get's to the boat. I measure and take
pictures while they are in the water, tag 'em and let 'em go.

Offshore is a whole different story.

What works for me might not work for you. That's the beauty of it
all.

This year I'm going with shorter leaders. If I catch nothing and
others are catching limits, then I'll switch. I haven't had a good
reason for the 30' leaders, other than "that's the traditional way."

Which is often the case. :)

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
-----------
"Do fishermen eat avocados? This is a question
that no one ever thinks to ask."

Russel Chatham, "Dark Waters" (1988)