Dan Krueger wrote:

Union carpenters and materials from a small, union, lumberyard, right?

Harry Krause wrote:


Uh, I'm having the basement finished in a house I built last year.


Here's the site you need...

http://towrating.trailerboats.com/

Dan


The crews I have coming in are, indeed, union members. I have two union
carpenters to do the rough and finish carpentry, a union electrician and
an apprentice, and a union plumber, and when they are finished, a union
tilesetter. No and I mean no union contractors will touch residential
work in my area, so I usually call union business agents I know and ask
if they have some guys between jobs, or just coming back after an
injury. They usually do. I pay the hourly rate. I know enough tradesmen
now that I usually just call them direct and pay them the hourly rate. I
get top-drawer work and for less than the scab contractors charge.

So you pay less than non-union workers? You say you are paying them directly
(cash - probably no 1099) so their unions are not paid their dues since they are
officially 'unemployed' and their employers who were footing the bill for their
benefits, WC claims, etc. are also not benefiting from your payments for their
work?

I read your response twice and it seems like you are acknowledging that union
work is too (OK, more) expensive so you have found a way to hire the same,
skilled, people at competitive rates through your connections. How many others
have the same connections to make union labor economical?

Last year I read that the largest trade show in the US - the National Hardware
Show had pulled out of Chicago and moved to Las Vegas. Reasons cited were
costs. I know that it cost at least $100 to have a union worker PLUG IN a phone
line and the same charges were assessed in the booth operator di the same thing.

Wouldn't "scab" mean a person who works when a strike is taking place?

Do you know where your moonlighters are buying their materials?

We can debate this for a decade in another forum but I personally know of some
very dedicated and qualified union workers who HATE their unions because of the
slackers who earn the same pay increases that they do (by contract) and push the
real work on the few and the proud...

Dan




Harry Krause wrote:

Dan Krueger wrote:


Union carpenters and materials from a small, union, lumberyard, right?

Harry Krause wrote:


Uh, I'm having the basement finished in a house I built last year.


Here's the site you need...

http://towrating.trailerboats.com/

Dan



The crews I have coming in are, indeed, union members. I have two union
carpenters to do the rough and finish carpentry, a union electrician and
an apprentice, and a union plumber, and when they are finished, a union
tilesetter. No and I mean no union contractors will touch residential
work in my area, so I usually call union business agents I know and ask
if they have some guys between jobs, or just coming back after an
injury. They usually do. I pay the hourly rate. I know enough tradesmen
now that I usually just call them direct and pay them the hourly rate. I
get top-drawer work and for less than the scab contractors charge.

On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 20:47:44 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Dan Krueger wrote:

Union carpenters and materials from a small, union, lumberyard, right?

Harry Krause wrote:


Uh, I'm having the basement finished in a house I built last year.


Here's the site you need...

http://towrating.trailerboats.com/

Dan


The crews I have coming in are, indeed, union members. I have two union
carpenters to do the rough and finish carpentry, a union electrician and
an apprentice, and a union plumber, and when they are finished, a union
tilesetter. No and I mean no union contractors will touch residential
work in my area, so I usually call union business agents I know and ask
if they have some guys between jobs, or just coming back after an
injury. They usually do. I pay the hourly rate. I know enough tradesmen
now that I usually just call them direct and pay them the hourly rate. I
get top-drawer work and for less than the scab contractors charge.

Interesting and the only thing I will ever say on this subject.

Last year, we decided to have the fireplaces in the living room and
den torn down and completely redone. Because my wife is heavily
involved in Union activities, and because of the general reputation of
Union Masons, I did like Harry - called the Union hall and asked if
they had somebody between jobs who could do the work - same pay
rate and I'd pay two laborers to assist the Mason.

Worst experience of my life.The first one took two days just to take
down one fireplace taking a break every ten minutes - the laborers
were useless - they smoked in the house even when I asked them not to
and at the end of the second day, they just left a pile of crap in
the living room - I had to take it all out back. Needless to say I
was ****ed. I called the Union and complained, had a friend of mine
who is a IBEW big shot rattle some cages and they sent out another
three guys. These were marginally better and actually got one
fireplace done, but they would only work five hours a day and
afterwards had the freakin' nerve to bill me for eight.

I had the building inspector come out to inspect the fireplace before
I used it and he condemned it and showed me why - it was a whole
litany of things that were directly against building code. And it
wasn't an anti-union thing - nothing was mentioned as to who did the
job. The BI asked me if I had done it.

Here's the kicker - I had a non-Union mason contractor who did both
fireplaces in three days, used one laborer who worked like a banshee
and was one hell of a guy (methodone maintainence who was learning the
trade as he cleaned his life up) and it cost me slightly more than
what I paid the union people.

And it was done right.

Maybe I ran into a couple of losers or something, but it was less than
a positive experience.

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
-----------
"Do fishermen eat avocados? This is a question
that no one ever thinks to ask."

Russel Chatham, "Dark Waters" (1988)