...in Rochester NY due to the Kodak plant closings
 

"Mark Browne" wrote in message
news:tAK2c.80876$PR3.1149716@attbi_s03...

"NOYB" wrote in message
om...
snip
How many reservists are you talking about? How many will actually be
reentering the job market and displacing other workers?

We have approximately 146.43 million potential workers in this country.
8.2
million of them are unemployed...giving us an unemployment rate of 5.6%.

If you add 150,000 people to our labor market (although there won't be
150,000 returning all at once), and NONE of them find a job (very
unlikely),
then we'd have an increase that wouldn't even be noticed by any of the
major
statistics that the BLS uses.

Example:
We'd then have 146.58 million workers
We'd have 8.15 million unemployed
We'd still have an unemployment rate of 5.6%!!!

The monthly job creation figures are in the 100,000 to 200,000 range.
Current estimates are 20,000 returning from the big sand box. Each of
these
people, directly or indirectly, will be competing for these new jobs.
Twenty
thousand is a fair sized number when balanced against the number of new
jobs
created.

It may not make a difference in your constant Pollyanna posts of how
wonderful things are, but if these folk experience the same kind of
problems
getting work that my sons are going through, that's a lot of pain.


I can't address your son's hardships since I don't know enough about them.
What skills do they have? Has there been a change in technology that might
have made those skills obsolete? What area in the country do they live in?
What area are they willing to move to? Do they expect to be paid the same
pay that they were receiving before they became unemployed? What,
specifically, could Bush have done differently which would have assured that
both of your sons could find employment?

Finger-pointing is easy. It's harder, sometimes, to look in the mirror and
find where the problem lies.

...in Rochester NY due to the Kodak plant closings
 

"Mark Browne" wrote in message
news:coK2c.517748$na.1175331@attbi_s04...

"NOYB" wrote in message
m...
snip
Dr. Tooth,

I will add that I have two sons seeking work right now. So far I can't
fault
the effort they are putting into their search.

Perhaps it has nothing to do with their effort. What is their work
background/training?


One is a Unix sys-admin with the right credentials; the other one has a
high
school diploma. Oddly enough, they are both getting about the same
response
in the job market - nothing.

The high school diploma son should be able to get a job anywhere, 7-11,
warehouse, auto shop, retail clerk. The Unix Sys-Admin son might have to
move to an area that has employers seeking his skills.

Now, lets move on to your fascinating implied statement.

You seem to be validating Kerry's (and Deans) assertion about two
Americas!

One for well to do folks like yourself, and one for the left behind. You
are
implying that because they did to choose to be part of the minority that
made the right (or lucky) moves and is doing OK right now, that they are
not
going to be part of the good times.

Nobody is being held back. If you want it work hard for it, don't sit around
and complain about people not giving it to you.

Depending upon your defintion of well to do folks you could be talking about
80% or less of the population. What is your criteria for well to do folks.

You do realize that with your income, you are definably part of the
minority, the top few percent of the economy. You might not think that
there
was any luck in your achieving the position you are in but reflect on
this;
there are doctors that have spent as much time as yourself in medical
training (maybe more) and are working for an HMO pulling down crappy
wages.
When they started their training many years ago, the HMO thing was not
even
on the radar screen.

Just because you pick a career when you are young doesn't mean that society
owes you a job in that field for the rest of your life. Times change, needs
change and those that don't change sit around wondering why they don't have
any money.

Since this is almost at one-person, one-vote country, the coming elections
may well sample the number of people that think they are doing well under
the current administration, and the number of people that think that they
are not and want a change. They both get the same right to vote.

It will be an interesting election, a Liberal vs. a Moderate.

...in Rochester NY due to the Kodak plant closings
 

snip
I don't know anything about Unix, other than it's an operating system.
My
knowledge of operating systems, as limited as it is, is Windows-based. I
remember that the operating system at my engineering school was Unix...but
that was more than 10 years ago. Is it still used a lot? Perhaps that's
part of the problem? A change in technology?

Hmmm, it would seem that the zeitgeist of technology is not your strong
suit. It is a virtual certainty that your post came via a Linux or BSD Unix
system. The bulk of ISPs currently use Linux or BSD as they are *bunches*
more reliable in production internet plumbing than anything Microsoft has
every produced. If you use google or Amazon you are using Linux. I have
noticed many reference to Linux use from members of this mailing list. The
bulk of supercomputers and mainframes are running some sort of UNIX system.
It is far from behind the times, and Minneapolis is certainly not out of the
loop when it come to IT technology. On my local TCLUG mailing list, several
members who were IBM employees members have had their jobs outsourced to
India. I am not aware that any of them have found work yet.

You pose the question, "a change in technology"? I say a change in the
entire IT infrastructure. For the few that can find work there has been a
15% to 25% drop in wage rates. So much for my son training for a better
job - It's looks like it has been shipped off to a low wage country.

A few leeks later, my techno-geek son is still looking for suitable
employment.


As for your other son with a high school diploma...
What kind of jobs is he applying to? I find it hard to believe he can't
find "any" job. I can't blame him for not wanting a job at minimum wage,
but what skills does he have and what makes him more "employable" than
somebody else that is earning minimum wage?

snip

Oddly, when I sit down with him and do the math, if he works 37.5 hours a
week he will *not* make enough to pay for rent, utilities, food and medical
care. If he works two jobs he will not have the time to go to school and get
more education to get a better job. Even then, health care is a deal buster.
I certainly can't imagine that you, a staunch conservative, would recommend
that he *not* accept personal responsibility and carry health insurance.

Fortunately, he has a support system with us, so he can do things like go
back to school and gain the training he needs for a better job. We have been
trying to work out what will do OK in tomorrow's out-sourced job market. If
you look at most jobs with an open mind, you find that a big chunk of
potential jobs are vulnerable; precious few are a sure bet. And the few jobs
that are left will be flooded with the outsourced.

I wonder about all the McJobbers who do not have a support system such as my
son has. Certainly a Hobson's choice if ever I heard one. It would seem that
they are doomed to work at a McJob until they get too sick to work. Then
they will join the ranks of the welfare population so you can pay for them
with your generous tax contribution. Many have found that they can't get
off the dole because they can't get needed health care working at a McJob.

Of course, If we manage "starve the beast" to the point where there are not
more social programs we can get back to the glorious days depicted in
Dickens literature; you can still see what this sort of unfettered free
market capitalism looks like in many third-world countries. I am sure that
this thought warms the cockles of your conservative heart!

Don't get me wrong, I don't advocate a swing to protectionism. The free
market is a very powerful engine of market efficiency. But like any powerful
tool, if must be used with adult supervision. I can't help but think that
there is a workable middle ground between laze fair capitalism and
communism. From where I sit, we are not at that point right now.

Mark Browne

...in Rochester NY due to the Kodak plant closings
 

"Mark Browne" wrote in message
news:c_M7c.61530$Cb.927821@attbi_s51...

snip
I don't know anything about Unix, other than it's an operating system.
My
knowledge of operating systems, as limited as it is, is Windows-based.
I
remember that the operating system at my engineering school was
Unix...but
that was more than 10 years ago. Is it still used a lot? Perhaps
that's
part of the problem? A change in technology?

Hmmm, it would seem that the zeitgeist of technology is not your strong
suit. It is a virtual certainty that your post came via a Linux or BSD
Unix
system. The bulk of ISPs currently use Linux or BSD as they are *bunches*
more reliable in production internet plumbing than anything Microsoft has
every produced. If you use google or Amazon you are using Linux. I have
noticed many reference to Linux use from members of this mailing list. The
bulk of supercomputers and mainframes are running some sort of UNIX
system.
It is far from behind the times, and Minneapolis is certainly not out of
the
loop when it come to IT technology. On my local TCLUG mailing list,
several
members who were IBM employees members have had their jobs outsourced to
India. I am not aware that any of them have found work yet.

You pose the question, "a change in technology"? I say a change in the
entire IT infrastructure. For the few that can find work there has been a
15% to 25% drop in wage rates. So much for my son training for a better
job - It's looks like it has been shipped off to a low wage country.

A few leeks later, my techno-geek son is still looking for suitable
employment.


As for your other son with a high school diploma...
What kind of jobs is he applying to? I find it hard to believe he can't
find "any" job. I can't blame him for not wanting a job at minimum
wage,
but what skills does he have and what makes him more "employable" than
somebody else that is earning minimum wage?

snip

Oddly, when I sit down with him and do the math, if he works 37.5 hours a
week he will *not* make enough to pay for rent, utilities, food and
medical
care. If he works two jobs he will not have the time to go to school and
get
more education to get a better job.

The answer isn't to work two jobs. The answer is to work *one* job to pay
*some* of the expenses...and get Stafford student loans to pay his school
and any additional expenses. He may need to meet a minimum number of credit
hours to maximize the the loans however. When he graduates, he can
consolidate any student loans and amortize them out to 30 years with a very
low fixed interest rate.