I've just visited the Boston Boat Show and i'd like to people's input
regarding the comparison of these two boats.

Wow, that would be like comparing apples and oranges but both are well
made - what kind of sailing are you intending to do? What are your
priorities? Where do you intend to sail?

Eric

(Gusty) wrote in message om...
I've just visited the Boston Boat Show and i'd like to people's input
regarding the comparison of these two boats.

Gusty wrote...
I've just visited the Boston Boat Show and i'd like to people's input
regarding the comparison of these two boats.

I assume you mean the Island Packet 350 and the Sabre 386, or are you talking about older boats?



Eric wrote:

Wow, that would be like comparing apples and oranges but both are well
made - what kind of sailing are you intending to do? What are your
priorities? Where do you intend to sail?

These two boats are very different. The IP 350 is basically a motorsailer. An older Island Packet would
be an acceptable passagemaker but IMHO the newer ones have added many dockside amenities and have very
impractical & uncomfortable deck layouts for working & handling the boat.

The Sabre is a great boat. Not as much of a passagemaker but if you want to sail for enjoyment of
sailing, the Sabre is a much better choice.. Under most conditions it will sail rings around the IP.
"Apples & oranges" is a bit of an understatement in trying to compare these two boats.

They are both high-dollar boats with good reputations for quality.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Just returned from the Boston Boat show and have two boats in mind -
the interest rates make me believe this is a worthwile time to do this
- anyways, I loved both the Sabre and the Island Packet. From what I
can tell, there hasn't been a debate relating to these boats, or ones
like it, recently - so I truly would appreciate your input.

The plan for the boat:
Its home port will be Rockland ME with many mostly weekend cruises
during each summer but hopefully an annual week of cruising down east
and every couple of years a longer trip to Fla or Bermuda. Also, the
grand plan may be to sail the Mediteranean or some place further...
Dreamin for now.

Anyways, I'm thinking this may be the boat for the next 10 years.
Here are my questions: With the IP, I doubt I could even consider
racing in the 'Round the Island' race and have a chance - no matter
who sails it. Is that true and if it was the Sabre, you could
compete?
Is the IP going to be enjoyable for a short day sail? Some of the
older posts give me the impression that with their sail configuration
they may be good to reach and sail down wind but not for the short
upwind leg.
Also, for a couple, is either too much work? Some times we will have
nieces and nephews or friends, but mostly it will just be the two of
us?
With the Sabre, I could plan to race it and be happy with it's
cruising comfortability?
Both are as safe for bluewater sailing?
Is there another boat that you would suggest I be looking at? These
two should give you the level as to the most expensive that I am
considering.
What are some experiences that people have had with either boat?

DSK wrote in message ...
Gusty wrote...
I've just visited the Boston Boat Show and i'd like to people's input
regarding the comparison of these two boats.

I assume you mean the Island Packet 350 and the Sabre 386, or are you talking about older boats?



Eric wrote:

Wow, that would be like comparing apples and oranges but both are well
made - what kind of sailing are you intending to do? What are your
priorities? Where do you intend to sail?

These two boats are very different. The IP 350 is basically a motorsailer. An older Island Packet would
be an acceptable passagemaker but IMHO the newer ones have added many dockside amenities and have very
impractical & uncomfortable deck layouts for working & handling the boat.

The Sabre is a great boat. Not as much of a passagemaker but if you want to sail for enjoyment of
sailing, the Sabre is a much better choice.. Under most conditions it will sail rings around the IP.
"Apples & oranges" is a bit of an understatement in trying to compare these two boats.

They are both high-dollar boats with good reputations for quality.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Gusty wrote:

The plan for the boat:
Its home port will be Rockland ME with many mostly weekend cruises
during each summer but hopefully an annual week of cruising down east
and every couple of years a longer trip to Fla or Bermuda. Also, the
grand plan may be to sail the Mediteranean or some place further...
Dreamin for now.

You might be more comfortable with the Island Packet for passages offshore to Bermuda, the Caribbean, or the
Med. But the Sabre is capable of doing it too, and would be far more enjoyable for short local cruises &
daysailing.




Anyways, I'm thinking this may be the boat for the next 10 years.
Here are my questions: With the IP, I doubt I could even consider
racing in the 'Round the Island' race and have a chance - no matter
who sails it. Is that true

Not at all. The issue here is not how the boat sails, but how it sails compared to it's rating. The IP is a
slow boat, and has a slow rating (185 or so, which puts it with the average 28 to 30 footers). Island Packets
occasionally win races under handicap. But they do so in the slow fleet, and are not particularly rewarding
to sail for performance.

OTOH the Sabres rate considerably faster, and are more responsive. They too have won enough events to show
that their rating is not a stab in the back.




and if it was the Sabre, you could
compete?

You could race either one. The issue is, would you enjoy racing (or sailing for the fun of *sailing*) in the
heavy, slow IP? If yes, there's nothing wrong with that, and I'd say go for it. But the IP is not going to
shine in races with light air, or shorter legs & lots of maneuvering. Every boat has it's favorite
conditions, and this one will like heavy air and chop.



Is the IP going to be enjoyable for a short day sail?

Depends both on the conditions & what you like. If you enjoy bopping around on a spirited responsive boat
(sail a Laser much?) then prob'ly not.



Some of the
older posts give me the impression that with their sail configuration
they may be good to reach and sail down wind but not for the short
upwind leg.

It's all relative. They go to windward about 350% better than a gaff rigged fishing smack ballasted with cod
& sandbags, but alongside a fin keeler with a good rig & better ratios, they don't look too good.


Also, for a couple, is either too much work? Some times we will have
nieces and nephews or friends, but mostly it will just be the two of
us?

Depends very much on how it's rigged & maintained. With a proper deck layout, either would be quite
manageable by one of you. Two is nice for docking though.

Speaking of which, that is an issue... a heavy boat like the IP will require more practice & forethought to
maneuver. Docking the Sabre is likely to be easier.



Both are as safe for bluewater sailing?

The nod here would definitely go to the Island Packet. That's what it's prmarily designed for. But there no
reason why the Sabre couldn't also make passages, given the right skipper & proper outfitting. BTW these last
two points are very much overlooked by cruisers... there is NO boat that is so inherently safe that poor
decision-making and iadequate gear cannot put her under. Some boats do gve one a wider margin though.



Is there another boat that you would suggest I be looking at?

Sure, lots! Hallberg-Rassey, Bavaria, Oyster, Baltic, the J-boats, ETAP, Morris, Freedom.... one of my
favorites is the New York 40 (hate the name, but then I am a Southerner), it's a great looking boat that is
comfortable and relatively fast. Carroll Marine is another builder of remarkable boats... most of theirs were
high-end racing craft but they built a number of performance-oriented cruisers too.

My opinion FWIW is that the more data you have, the more boats you look at, the easier it is to pick the
right one. It's like choosing a wife.... if you only ever saw two women in your life, and picked between them
to marry, how would you feel the first time you walked into a room with 100 other women?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Doug,

Much thanks!

Although maybe this is not the appropriate place to ask, what other
places would you suggest for chat rooms. Your feedback has been very
helpful.

Over the last two years my wife and I have looked extremely closely at
a J35 and a Catalina 35 but we never made the final move. I'm pretty
sure we're going to act between now and this summer. As the son of a
Cruising Club member and Bermuda racer, I'm trying to find the best of
both worlds.

Being a Red Sox fan, I can't imagine spending the next 10 years on a
NY 40.

Thanks again.

Gusty wrote:
Doug,

Much thanks!

Although maybe this is not the appropriate place to ask, what other
places would you suggest for chat rooms. Your feedback has been very
helpful.

You're much welcome! This is a perfectly appropriate place to act, but
most of this newsgroup is taken up by fishing and political blowhards.
There is occasionally a flurry of talk about electrical systems &
engines which I try to follow, and leap on any sailing topic.

Try a similar newsgroup titled 'rec.boats.cruising' or 'alt.sailing.asa'
or the Cruising World forum

http://www.cruisingworld.com/forum.jsp?categoryID=205



Over the last two years my wife and I have looked extremely closely at
a J35 and a Catalina 35 but we never made the final move.

Kinda different boats there too... I sense that you are one with duality

If you liked the J-35, do yourself a favor and check out an Express 37
http://www.practical-sailor.com/pub/...ew/1173-1.html

It's roomy enough to cruise, fun to sail, and fast enough to pop
eyeballs. Darn good looking boat too. The biggest drawbacks as a
daysailer/weekender are that it requires an attentive helmsman (although
I bet it behaves just fine with an autpilot) and it would be rather
bouncy on passages (but less so than a J-35). Some of them have tillers!


... I'm pretty
sure we're going to act between now and this summer. As the son of a
Cruising Club member and Bermuda racer, I'm trying to find the best of
both worlds.

That means a different thing to everybody. My wife and I wanted a boat
with enough room for us to stay aboard for a few months at a time &
occasionally make passages (with sensible planning & caution), yet would
be enough fun to sail (SA/D 18 or higher, PHRF 110 or lower) to be worth
the effort. We were concentrating on 38~40 footers in the range of 180 ~
200 D/L... and we also wanted shoal draft, which cut the choices to very
few.




Being a Red Sox fan, I can't imagine spending the next 10 years on a
NY 40.

I'm embarrassed to admit how much I like these boats... it's certainly
not due to the name. I was racing a semi-custom (ie rather fast) 35
footer and we were dusting most 42 and 45 footers, and we kept facing
off with this very classy looking (at first I thought it was a custom
design) nearly flush-deck sloop that could pass us given half a chance.
After a while I made it a point to make friends with the folks sailing
it, and went aboard... my jaw dropped at the cabin furnishings & the
roominess. I blurted out (sounding like a country bumpkin I'm sure)
"Damn! What kind of boat is this again?" and they said "New York 40...
like the Herreshoff design, only modern"

Fast forward about 20 years. My wife and I are boat hunting. We go to
look at a very nice French centerboarder (sadly abused and very
ill-equipped with a high asking price, which is why we didn't buy it).
It is sitting next to a NY-40, which I recognize at a glance. My wife
admires it, and of course assumes I'll know what kind of boat it is. The
broker gallantly allows us to check it out, and my wife becomes more and
more enthusiastic... I knew she was going to say it but couldn't
forestall her... she asked "Do they make this boat in a shoal draft model?"

Fresh Breezes- Doug King