On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 13:10:44 -0500, "Gene Kearns"
wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:31:02 -0500, DSK wrote:

del cecchi wrote:
Maybe we should have tolls or permits or licences to use ICW? Collect
from every boat. $50 for less than 20 feet, $250 for less than 28 feet,
$1000 for 36 feet. Some appropriate price for commercial vessels. Add
daily and weekly options and away you go. Why should the poor folks
money be spent on recreation for the rich? Folks should pay their own
way.

Well, we already do. If the fiscal burden of paying for the ICW is
levied specifically on users, all other taxes should go down, right?


SNIP

DSK

You could make the same argument for hard surfaced roads. Would you?

I can't believe I'm going to jump in here, but I'm bored.

Actually, no - that dog won't hunt so to speak.

Take the Mass Pike for instance. When first envisioned, the Pike was
designated as a toll road only for the time needed to pay for the road
itself. What eventually happened was that the Pike started to eat
it's own money with patronage, incredible amounts of pilferage,
unnecessary road "repairs/improvements" so that essentially, the Pike
became a breakeven operation - it cost as much as it made. With the
advent of the "Big Dig", it became a monster cash cow contributing to
the money pit for the 30 second improvement in traffic flow through
Boston. Add to that the concept of "General Funding" in which all
fees, taxes, fines and other revenue are not designated but allocated
by a budgetary process from a "general revenue pool", obfuscating
fiscal accountability for individual departments and state
organizations and presto - the toll just becomes, in essence, another
tax disguised as a "user fee". To put it another way, because the
revenue is placed into a general budgetary process it's not a
pay-to-pay system at all - the person paying income taxes in Revere is
contributing to the health of the Pike as I do when I drive up to the
Northshore for a weekend of striper fishing.

And it's pretty much the same in other states that have tolls on
interstates

In Connecticut, tolls were actually removed from our three interstate
routes (395/95 and older portions of 84) and have never been replaced.
It was the result of a very bad accident involving a runaway cement
truck and 10/12 cars stopped at a toll booth. The reasoning is that
we can maintain the roads with Federal matching funds, so why add
another tax/user fee which in this state, is an amazing concept. ;)

So essentially, "user fees" will not allow for other "taxes" to go
down because it's all one general revenue pool - the "General Fund"
revenue stream/budgetary process does not allow for reduction of one
source of as a result of increasing another one.

I hope I explained that properly - I'm not an accountant.

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
----------

Basic Fishing Program:

10 - Fish
20 - Eat
30 - Sleep
40 - Goto 10

Blah, blah, blah...... just how many boats, not yachts, transit the ICW for
anything more than a short cruise or fishing trip, EXCEPT FOR COMMERCIAL
TRAFFIC?

Reread my original post carefully, if you can read well.

Think you can or could transit the Panama Canal for free? Why not?

Butch

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:31:02 -0500, DSK wrote:

del cecchi wrote:
Maybe we should have tolls or permits or licences to use ICW?
Collect
from every boat. $50 for less than 20 feet, $250 for less than 28
feet,
$1000 for 36 feet. Some appropriate price for commercial vessels.
Add
daily and weekly options and away you go. Why should the poor
folks
money be spent on recreation for the rich? Folks should pay their
own
way.

Well, we already do. If the fiscal burden of paying for the ICW is
levied specifically on users, all other taxes should go down, right?


SNIP

DSK

You could make the same argument for hard surfaced roads. Would you?

--

Sales tax on Cars and Trucks, License plates, gas tax. Maybe not the
whole bill but goes a long way. Sure, so long as I don't have to pay
for other peoples goodies. Rain forests in Iowa, etc.

del cecchi

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
del cecchi wrote:

"DSK" wrote in message
news
Florida Keyz wrote:

unbelivably, there is now NO funding for the Atlantic ICW.

Actually, this isn't quite true. A small amount of money (a paltry few
million) was allocated to Florida.

.... If this continures
there will soon be no ICW, it shall be impassable.

Oh, I dunno, it will be there for a long time to come, it just will be
"impassable" to boats over 3' draft.

But the issue is a fairly serious one. The economic impact of the ICW
includes a few billion doallars for commercial traffic, probably ten
times that for recreational boaters. Think of all the marinas and gas
docks and visitors centers along the ICW.

Also, if there is little or no money for maintenance along the ICW,
think what would be allocated for rescue of boaters trying to go
outside
around Cape Hattaras.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Maybe we should have tolls or permits or licences to use ICW? Collect
from every boat. $50 for less than 20 feet, $250 for less than 28 feet,
$1000 for 36 feet. Some appropriate price for commercial vessels. Add
daily and weekly options and away you go. Why should the poor folks
money be spent on recreation for the rich? Folks should pay their own
way.

del cecchi

Yeah, and how about user fees for everything else, so Bush can continue
to siphon off the taxpayers' money for his insane war?

Want to get on an interstate? $5 each way.
Want your beef inspected? $2 a pound.
Want to watch TV? An additional $1.00 a day tax to access the public
airwaves.



Folks should be willing to pay their own way for everything.


Well, here in the Democratic Republic of the SF Bay area. They do this.
Costs $2 for a 2 axle vehicle to cross any bridge except the Golden Gate. 4
axles gets you $6.25. So car towing tandem trailer boat trailer. $6.25!
There is a measure on the Ballot to raise tolls on the Bridges (except GG,
is not run by the state, is run by local Democrats and they charge more!) an
extra buck to fund mass transit not on the bridge. Seems as if the
Democrats in Control (DOC) have no problem socking the public with more fees
for their pet projects. Same DOC's who ran up a deficit in the last 4 years
of $39 billion in this state. And Speaker Mr. Burton can only come up with
raising taxes to cover the overspending! Raise spending 39% in 4 years when
inflation and population growth accounts for a 9% requirement to stay even.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
DSK wrote:

That was a *joke* Harry. Surely you are familiar with the concept, even
if you don't have an actual sense of humor?

DSK

Harry Krause wrote:


Halliburton is advertising heavily on TV in the DC metro area, trying
to
convince everyone it is a patriotic company, only interested in service
our national interests, and hiding the fact it is a war-mongering,
taxpayer cheating tool of the neocon fascists who currently control our
government. Or is the government a tool of Halliburton?


Of course I got it. But the Halliburton ads running on TV now in my
metro market are an even funnier joke.

Would you be acceptable if Sea-Land got the contracts? Nice Democrat
controlled business.

Calif Bill wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
DSK wrote:

That was a *joke* Harry. Surely you are familiar with the concept, even
if you don't have an actual sense of humor?

DSK

Harry Krause wrote:


Halliburton is advertising heavily on TV in the DC metro area, trying
to
convince everyone it is a patriotic company, only interested in service
our national interests, and hiding the fact it is a war-mongering,
taxpayer cheating tool of the neocon fascists who currently control our
government. Or is the government a tool of Halliburton?


Of course I got it. But the Halliburton ads running on TV now in my
metro market are an even funnier joke.

Would you be acceptable if Sea-Land got the contracts? Nice Democrat
controlled business.



It would be more acceptable if these contracts were not handed out as
the spoils of war to friends of the politicians in charge. We've sort of
Saddamized the process, eh?

Subject: ICW may be shut down.
From:

Reread my original post carefully, if you can read well.

What are you kidding me, it was barely worth the first read.

Capt. Bill

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Calif Bill wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
DSK wrote:

That was a *joke* Harry. Surely you are familiar with the concept,
even
if you don't have an actual sense of humor?

DSK

Harry Krause wrote:


Halliburton is advertising heavily on TV in the DC metro area,
trying
to
convince everyone it is a patriotic company, only interested in
service
our national interests, and hiding the fact it is a war-mongering,
taxpayer cheating tool of the neocon fascists who currently control
our
government. Or is the government a tool of Halliburton?


Of course I got it. But the Halliburton ads running on TV now in my
metro market are an even funnier joke.

Would you be acceptable if Sea-Land got the contracts? Nice Democrat
controlled business.



It would be more acceptable if these contracts were not handed out as
the spoils of war to friends of the politicians in charge. We've sort of
Saddamized the process, eh?

Maybe learned from your mentors, the Johnson's. Lady Bird owned a bunch of
Sea Land. And in 4 years, LBJ went from near bankrupt to $4mm++.

"Calif Bill" wrote in message news:Eve_b.4401
Maybe learned from your mentors, the Johnson's. Lady Bird owned a bunch of
Sea Land. And in 4 years, LBJ went from near bankrupt to $4mm++.

Please post any and all references which back up your wild allegations
that Harry's "mentors" were the Johnsons.

I can't hardly believe you guys.

Your all talk and NO action.

You are Turning this into a political discusioin while you may be loosing the
icw!

http://www.atlintracoastal.org/index.htm

Follow the link I send, contact your congress, your senators, and your
government.

Spend 5 friggin dollars and join the Atlantic Intracoastal orginization.

SH*t or get off the pot! or better said, Sh*t or stay off the ICW.

Take Five miniutes of your valuable time and email them SOBs before its too
late.

And Butch,
Stay off shore. Sail to the horizon if you wanna, but try an NOT use the ICW,
see where you end up.


Sterling

http://floridakeys.homestead.com/Cruisingnotes.html