Steven Shelikoff wrote:
... A friend of mine has never tipped his hobie 16,
and he's sailed it for going on 15 years. I've only tipped mine a
couple of times, and only when I was sailing like I was in a Pepsi
commercial, as Doug says.


If you're flying a hull in a Hobie 16, you're courting a capsize. They
simply don't have enough reserve bouyancy.

If you only sail in winds less than 10 knots, then it should be easy to
avoid capsizes. OTOH I doubt very seriously that it's even manageable in
30 knot winds, unless you have cut-down or reefable sails.


.. I once pitchpoled a Hobie 14... over it's
sterns... in no wind at all, just sitting too far aft and not paying
close enough attention as the aft most part of the hulls snuck under water.


You might need to lose some weight.

Not really. 6' & 170#. The issue is the lack of hull volume & reserve
bouyancy.


... I sail with 4 people on my 16
with no problem.


While breathing helium, no doubt.


A Hobie 16 probably wouldn't capsize with both hulls planted, but it's
still possible in moderate conditions... I've seen one go over from a
motorboat wake that put the lee bow under...


A big motorboat wake can do all sorts of things to small boats. But a
Hobie 16 is a lot less likely to be swamped or capsized by the same wake
than a sunfish.


Hardly. The Sunfish has a great deal of reserve bouyancy & stability. It
probably has twice the hull volume (ie bouyancy) of the Hobie 16.

The problem with catamarans in general and Hobie 14s & 16s in particular
is that their stability is all front-end. They generate their max
righting moment at small angles of heel, and from there on they get
easier and easier to heel further. A gust of wind under the tramp and
ka-splash. With the Hobies, it's made worse by the tiny hulls. Once the
lee hull goes under... or even partially under, you have lost all
righting moment at that point and the boat just falls over.


30 knots??!?!?


That was an extreme. However, I have been out in mine by accident in
more than 30 knots. I got caught in a bad storm a couple of miles
offshore. I had to reef the main while out there, bobbing around in big
waves, high winds and lightning all around, standing at the front of the
pontoons trying to get the little ball on the halyard unsnapped and set
at the reef ball. It wasn't fun at all. But once I got the main
reefed, we screamed in towards shore with all that wind. Didn't capsize
either. It was great until the storm passed and we were hit by a calm
with about a mile to go and had to paddle in by hand the rest of the
way. Man were my arms sore the next day.


You were lucky you had reef points in the main. I hate halyard locks,
had a few similar episodes with them, but they do reduce compression on
the mast. Summer T-storms are a way of life.


.... If one
cannot accept that, and learn capsize drills, then one should not be
sailing small boats.


I agree that it's good to practice capsizing and righting small
sailboats. Having righting lines rigged on the hobie make it a lot
easier. But I still stand by my statement that you can sail one for
years without ever capsizing if you don't push the boat to the point
where one of the hulls comes out of the water and if you keep your
weight aft so you don't sink the forward part of a hull.


Obviously, it can be done. i wouldn't count on it though. And I wouldn't
sit too far aft.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

If you're flying a hull in a Hobie 16, you're courting a capsize. They
simply don't have enough reserve bouyancy.


Steven Shelikoff wrote:
Which is why I said, if you don't want to capsize, keep both hulls in
the water.

Or just leave it upside down to start with

... And it's not reserve bouyancy that's the problem *if* you
keep your weight aft when flying (moving too far foward is when you
pitchpole).

It can still pitchpole if the bow digs in hard enough, such as when
encountering a big wake. And can capsize no matter what the fore/aft
weight placement if one hull submerges enough to lose righting moment.

... It's the fact that unlike a balasted monohull, righting
moment decreases with increasing heel. The thing that saves you is that
the side force from the wind decreases with increasing heel

Until it gets under the tramp.

.... so it's not
hard to find a balancing point.

Agreed, it's not too difficult. It's certainly much easier to sail a
Hobie Cat than one of the double-trap skiffs.

... I like the thrill
of hiking out on the trapeze while flying a hull low, or even with both
in the water. The sense of speed is greater when your body is suspended
way off the boat, just over the water.

True. It's even better with a spinnaker IMHO.

... There's nothing like the thrill
of being suspended just over the water while going 20kts. Of course,
you can do that in a monohull too. But the difference is that you go
way higher on a hobie cat when you start to heel more.


I sailed a friends Mystere 6m a number of times. It had hiking wings, a
very nice luxury, but when the boat heeled it put you *WAY* up in the air!


The boat seems to sail fastest with one hull just barely out of the
water.

In theory, that should be correct. AFAIK it's true in practice as well.


If you keep both hulls in the water, it can support a lot of weight.
It's rated max capacity is 800lbs

!!!!


... and I've had almost that much with no
problem at all. Of couse you notice a difference in handling and
responsiveness. But you're in no danger of capsizing if you keep both
hulls in the water, which isn't hard to do with 800lbs on board.

Can one hull support 800#? I'd be very very surprised. And my whole
point has been that once one hull is fully laden, and starting to
submerge, it contributes *nothing* to righting moment and the boat just
falls over. I suggest that if you carry 800# on a Hobie Cat, you're
flirting with this even if you don't realize it.






Hardly. The Sunfish has a great deal of reserve bouyancy & stability. It
probably has twice the hull volume (ie bouyancy) of the Hobie 16.


Lol. Hit a Sunfish and a Hobie 16 broadside by a hugh cruiser wake and
I gaurantee you that the sunfish will go over first.

Not if the Sunfish doesn't have a very large & heavy klutz on board.
I've never capsized a monohuls due to being hit by a wake, even when
planing. OTOH I've seen Hobie 16s go over both by pitchpoling, tripping
over a steep wake, and simply having the lee hull driven under.

... The form stability
of the Hobie 16 (a wide catamaran) is many times greater than a Sunfish
(a narrow monohull.)

That's true, as long as both hulls have a remaining margin of freboard
(un-immersed volume). You seem to keep skipping over this point.

... And you're wrong about the reserve bouyancy. The
Hobie 16 has about 300lbs more than a Sunfish.


Baloney. Look at the difference in hull volume... that *is* reserve
bouyancy. Two long very skinny triangular hulls have less volume than
one shallow V-bottom surfboard shaped hull... and the Hobie weighs more too.



And again, which is why I say that if you want to assure that you're not
going to capsize, keep both hulls in the water.

IMHO it is both wrong, and dangerous, to try and tell people that they
can guarantee not capsizing.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King