http://money.cnn.com/2005/03/22/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes

Very short extract -- read the article please before commenting

With reform recommendations from a presidential panel due by July 31,
the betting is that at least one of the proposals would move the United
States closer to a model that started in France decades ago, spread
across Europe and is now used by more than 120 countries, including
Singapore, Canada, Japan and Australia.

The model? A hybrid tax code with two key components: a tax on income
and a type of sales tax commonly known as a value-added tax.

"My guess is the panel is playing with a couple of different ideas,"
said Clint Stretch, the director of tax policy at Deloitte Tax, a unit
of the accounting giant Deloitte & Touche. "One is some...reform of the
current income tax system and the second is a value-added tax."



It just might work -- my only fear is that the congress never wants to
give up a tax.

The thing I HATE about a VAT tax is it is a hidden tax. Taxes should be up
front and visable. I would prefer that the income taxes collected go into a
special account that you have to write a check on to the government for your
yearly income tax payment. Then these who say 'Oh, I got a refund this
year'. Would realize they just overpaid, and then maybe we would have
revolt at the ballot box on all the tax and spend politicians.
Bill

"Jim," wrote in message
...

http://money.cnn.com/2005/03/22/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes

Very short extract -- read the article please before commenting

With reform recommendations from a presidential panel due by July 31,
the betting is that at least one of the proposals would move the United
States closer to a model that started in France decades ago, spread
across Europe and is now used by more than 120 countries, including
Singapore, Canada, Japan and Australia.

The model? A hybrid tax code with two key components: a tax on income
and a type of sales tax commonly known as a value-added tax.

"My guess is the panel is playing with a couple of different ideas,"
said Clint Stretch, the director of tax policy at Deloitte Tax, a unit
of the accounting giant Deloitte & Touche. "One is some...reform of the
current income tax system and the second is a value-added tax."



It just might work -- my only fear is that the congress never wants to
give up a tax.

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 21:04:37 GMT, "Jim," wrote:

http://money.cnn.com/2005/03/22/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes

Very short extract -- read the article please before commenting

With reform recommendations from a presidential panel due by July 31,
the betting is that at least one of the proposals would move the United
States closer to a model that started in France decades ago, spread
across Europe and is now used by more than 120 countries, including
Singapore, Canada, Japan and Australia.

The model? A hybrid tax code with two key components: a tax on income
and a type of sales tax commonly known as a value-added tax.

"My guess is the panel is playing with a couple of different ideas,"
said Clint Stretch, the director of tax policy at Deloitte Tax, a unit
of the accounting giant Deloitte & Touche. "One is some...reform of the
current income tax system and the second is a value-added tax."



It just might work -- my only fear is that the congress never wants to
give up a tax.

The value added tax will greatly increase the cost of goods, thus affecting the
poor much more than the wealthy.

In Germany, in late 80's, the value added tax (Mehrwehrsteuer)was 14%. I believe
it's up to 16% now.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
ink.net...
The thing I HATE about a VAT tax is it is a hidden tax. Taxes should be
up
front and visable. I would prefer that the income taxes collected go into
a
special account that you have to write a check on to the government for
your
yearly income tax payment. Then these who say 'Oh, I got a refund this
year'. Would realize they just overpaid, and then maybe we would have
revolt at the ballot box on all the tax and spend politicians.
Bill


Come on up to Canada. We got rid of the old hidden Federal Sales Tax
back in 1993. We call our new national tax GST...(goods & services tax) at
7%.
Here in my corner of the world...3 of the four Atlantic provinces went a
step further. We blended the 7% GST and the old 11% PST (provincial sales
tax) into one 15% HST. Originally it was called BST (blended sales tax)
but everyone started calling it the bull **** tax...so the gov't actually
changed the name to Harmonized Sales Tax....H.S.T.
HST is added at the cash register and clearly shown on any receipt or
invoice.

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 23:32:25 GMT, "Don White"
wrote:


"Calif Bill" wrote in message
link.net...
The thing I HATE about a VAT tax is it is a hidden tax. Taxes should be
up
front and visable. I would prefer that the income taxes collected go into
a
special account that you have to write a check on to the government for
your
yearly income tax payment. Then these who say 'Oh, I got a refund this
year'. Would realize they just overpaid, and then maybe we would have
revolt at the ballot box on all the tax and spend politicians.
Bill


Come on up to Canada. We got rid of the old hidden Federal Sales Tax
back in 1993. We call our new national tax GST...(goods & services tax) at
7%.
Here in my corner of the world...3 of the four Atlantic provinces went a
step further. We blended the 7% GST and the old 11% PST (provincial sales
tax) into one 15% HST. Originally it was called BST (blended sales tax)
but everyone started calling it the bull **** tax...so the gov't actually
changed the name to Harmonized Sales Tax....H.S.T.
HST is added at the cash register and clearly shown on any receipt or
invoice.

So they changed it from the Bull **** Tax to the Horse **** Tax?

BRILLIANT!!

Later,

Tom

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 23:32:25 GMT, "Don White"
wrote:


"Calif Bill" wrote in message
hlink.net...
The thing I HATE about a VAT tax is it is a hidden tax. Taxes should be
up
front and visable. I would prefer that the income taxes collected go
into
a
special account that you have to write a check on to the government for
your
yearly income tax payment. Then these who say 'Oh, I got a refund this
year'. Would realize they just overpaid, and then maybe we would have
revolt at the ballot box on all the tax and spend politicians.
Bill


Come on up to Canada. We got rid of the old hidden Federal Sales Tax
back in 1993. We call our new national tax GST...(goods & services tax)
at
7%.
Here in my corner of the world...3 of the four Atlantic provinces went a
step further. We blended the 7% GST and the old 11% PST (provincial sales
tax) into one 15% HST. Originally it was called BST (blended sales tax)
but everyone started calling it the bull **** tax...so the gov't actually
changed the name to Harmonized Sales Tax....H.S.T.
HST is added at the cash register and clearly shown on any receipt or
invoice.

So they changed it from the Bull **** Tax to the Horse **** Tax?

BRILLIANT!!

Later,

Tom

Watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat......

The value added tax will greatly increase the cost of goods, thus
affecting the
poor much more than the wealthy.

**************

That's why sales taxes are usually considered regressive. The poor are
compelled to spend 100% of their income on basic needs. The wealthy
spend as little as only a few percent on basic needs and merchandise
subject to VAT or sales tax, with a higher percentage spent on services
and travel and a very high percentage on investment.

When you go to a poor person and say, "VAT is 20%, so give me 20% of
what your earn" that can hurt a lot worse, (even though it's a lot less
money), than approaching a wealthy person with "VAT is 20% and you
spend 25% of your earnings on taxable items so hand over 5%".

Flat tax, flat tax, flat tax, flat tax, flat tax. No tax on the first
$30,000 or so per family per year, then a fixed rate of 15-20% on all
earnings above that regardless of source. It's very fair, doesn't
burden the poor with any tax at all, and takes a fixed, predictable,
even percentage from everybody else without special favors or
exemptions.

On 24 Mar 2005 15:47:31 -0800, wrote:

The value added tax will greatly increase the cost of goods, thus
affecting the
poor much more than the wealthy.

**************

That's why sales taxes are usually considered regressive. The poor are
compelled to spend 100% of their income on basic needs. The wealthy
spend as little as only a few percent on basic needs and merchandise
subject to VAT or sales tax, with a higher percentage spent on services
and travel and a very high percentage on investment.

When you go to a poor person and say, "VAT is 20%, so give me 20% of
what your earn" that can hurt a lot worse, (even though it's a lot less
money), than approaching a wealthy person with "VAT is 20% and you
spend 25% of your earnings on taxable items so hand over 5%".

Flat tax, flat tax, flat tax, flat tax, flat tax. No tax on the first
$30,000 or so per family per year, then a fixed rate of 15-20% on all
earnings above that regardless of source. It's very fair, doesn't
burden the poor with any tax at all, and takes a fixed, predictable,
even percentage from everybody else without special favors or
exemptions.

Thanks for clarifying that.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

wrote:
The value added tax will greatly increase the cost of goods, thus
affecting the
poor much more than the wealthy.

**************

That's why sales taxes are usually considered regressive. The poor are
compelled to spend 100% of their income on basic needs. The wealthy
spend as little as only a few percent on basic needs and merchandise
subject to VAT or sales tax, with a higher percentage spent on services
and travel and a very high percentage on investment.

When you go to a poor person and say, "VAT is 20%, so give me 20% of
what your earn" that can hurt a lot worse, (even though it's a lot less
money), than approaching a wealthy person with "VAT is 20% and you
spend 25% of your earnings on taxable items so hand over 5%".

Flat tax, flat tax, flat tax, flat tax, flat tax. No tax on the first
$30,000 or so per family per year, then a fixed rate of 15-20% on all
earnings above that regardless of source. It's very fair, doesn't
burden the poor with any tax at all, and takes a fixed, predictable,
even percentage from everybody else without special favors or
exemptions.

This is why I asked you to read the article before commenting. The VAT
would be partially refunded based on income, and there would be an
income tax on those earning in excess of 100k/yr

Please read the article!

The advantage of a VAT tax, (and partially refunding it based upon income),
is everyone would pay the tax. Today, there is a large underground economy
that manages to avoid all tax.


"Jim," wrote in message
...
wrote:
The value added tax will greatly increase the cost of goods, thus
affecting the
poor much more than the wealthy.

**************

That's why sales taxes are usually considered regressive. The poor are
compelled to spend 100% of their income on basic needs. The wealthy
spend as little as only a few percent on basic needs and merchandise
subject to VAT or sales tax, with a higher percentage spent on services
and travel and a very high percentage on investment.

When you go to a poor person and say, "VAT is 20%, so give me 20% of
what your earn" that can hurt a lot worse, (even though it's a lot less
money), than approaching a wealthy person with "VAT is 20% and you
spend 25% of your earnings on taxable items so hand over 5%".

Flat tax, flat tax, flat tax, flat tax, flat tax. No tax on the first
$30,000 or so per family per year, then a fixed rate of 15-20% on all
earnings above that regardless of source. It's very fair, doesn't
burden the poor with any tax at all, and takes a fixed, predictable,
even percentage from everybody else without special favors or
exemptions.

This is why I asked you to read the article before commenting. The VAT
would be partially refunded based on income, and there would be an income
tax on those earning in excess of 100k/yr

Please read the article!