How many perspectives can there be when all the brain above the stem is
gone?

Sciavo's injury deprived the brain of oxygen. For 15 years! The stem,
at the base of the brain, controls heart and respiratory functions and
can initiate some reflexive motions. There is no capacity for thought,
for emotion, or for learning. Few people would ever look at Terri S and
say, "Please leave me in that condition for as long as I can hang on if
I ever suffer the same fate." There has been testimony from several
people that before the accident Terri had expressed a preference for
death vs. life as a vegetable if she was ever in the state that she is
in now.

Sciavo's parents may be like the retired folks we all know who turn a
household pet into a surrogate child or grandchild. Referrring to
thenselves as the dog's "Mom" or "Dad", dressing it up in goofy
clothes, and organizing daily life around its every need doesn't change
the basic fact that the dog is a dog. A dog has far more cognitive
ability than Terri Sciavo's breathing corpse has now, or will ever have
in the future.

If a miracle worker walked into her hospital room, healed her severed
spine, and turned the fluid in her skull back into functioning brain
cells she'd recover. Short of that, nothing could be done. Couldn't the
same thing be said about every one of he hundreds of thousands of
people in the same or similar situation every year? Should we keep
everybody in a persistant vegetative state and with no (reasonable)
hope of recovery alive forever, wishing and hoping for a miracle?

wrote in message
oups.com...
How many perspectives can there be when all the brain above the stem is
gone?

Sciavo's injury deprived the brain of oxygen. For 15 years! The stem,
at the base of the brain, controls heart and respiratory functions and
can initiate some reflexive motions. There is no capacity for thought,
for emotion, or for learning. Few people would ever look at Terri S and
say, "Please leave me in that condition for as long as I can hang on if
I ever suffer the same fate." There has been testimony from several
people that before the accident Terri had expressed a preference for
death vs. life as a vegetable if she was ever in the state that she is
in now.

Sciavo's parents may be like the retired folks we all know who turn a
household pet into a surrogate child or grandchild. Referrring to
thenselves as the dog's "Mom" or "Dad", dressing it up in goofy
clothes, and organizing daily life around its every need doesn't change
the basic fact that the dog is a dog. A dog has far more cognitive
ability than Terri Sciavo's breathing corpse has now, or will ever have
in the future.

If a miracle worker walked into her hospital room, healed her severed
spine, and turned the fluid in her skull back into functioning brain
cells she'd recover. Short of that, nothing could be done. Couldn't the
same thing be said about every one of he hundreds of thousands of
people in the same or similar situation every year? Should we keep
everybody in a persistant vegetative state and with no (reasonable)
hope of recovery alive forever, wishing and hoping for a miracle?


Did you listen to the interviews?

No one can say for sure what her mental condition is. And there are now
many questions about Michael Shiavo's past treatment of Terri.

One has to err on the side of life when dealing with human life.

"JimH" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
How many perspectives can there be when all the brain above the stem is
gone?

Sciavo's injury deprived the brain of oxygen. For 15 years! The stem,
at the base of the brain, controls heart and respiratory functions and
can initiate some reflexive motions. There is no capacity for thought,
for emotion, or for learning. Few people would ever look at Terri S and
say, "Please leave me in that condition for as long as I can hang on if
I ever suffer the same fate." There has been testimony from several
people that before the accident Terri had expressed a preference for
death vs. life as a vegetable if she was ever in the state that she is
in now.

Sciavo's parents may be like the retired folks we all know who turn a
household pet into a surrogate child or grandchild. Referrring to
thenselves as the dog's "Mom" or "Dad", dressing it up in goofy
clothes, and organizing daily life around its every need doesn't change
the basic fact that the dog is a dog. A dog has far more cognitive
ability than Terri Sciavo's breathing corpse has now, or will ever have
in the future.

If a miracle worker walked into her hospital room, healed her severed
spine, and turned the fluid in her skull back into functioning brain
cells she'd recover. Short of that, nothing could be done. Couldn't the
same thing be said about every one of he hundreds of thousands of
people in the same or similar situation every year? Should we keep
everybody in a persistant vegetative state and with no (reasonable)
hope of recovery alive forever, wishing and hoping for a miracle?


Did you listen to the interviews?

No one can say for sure what her mental condition is. And there are now
many questions about Michael Shiavo's past treatment of Terri.

One has to err on the side of life when dealing with human life.


Bush only said that last line so as to not **** off his big voter block.
He's trying to stay away from Schiavo overall, and leave the screaming to
others. The interviews are propaganda because the MRI's, scans, and brain
activity don't lie. If Michael is guilty of something then investigate and
punish. That doesn't change the fact that she's a breathing corpse and that
her parents and small group of supporters are in denial and desperate,
resorting even to lies to maintain "hope". This is a sad thing for all
involved.

-W

"Clams Canino" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JimH" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
How many perspectives can there be when all the brain above the stem is
gone?

Sciavo's injury deprived the brain of oxygen. For 15 years! The stem,
at the base of the brain, controls heart and respiratory functions and
can initiate some reflexive motions. There is no capacity for thought,
for emotion, or for learning. Few people would ever look at Terri S and
say, "Please leave me in that condition for as long as I can hang on if
I ever suffer the same fate." There has been testimony from several
people that before the accident Terri had expressed a preference for
death vs. life as a vegetable if she was ever in the state that she is
in now.

Sciavo's parents may be like the retired folks we all know who turn a
household pet into a surrogate child or grandchild. Referrring to
thenselves as the dog's "Mom" or "Dad", dressing it up in goofy
clothes, and organizing daily life around its every need doesn't change
the basic fact that the dog is a dog. A dog has far more cognitive
ability than Terri Sciavo's breathing corpse has now, or will ever have
in the future.

If a miracle worker walked into her hospital room, healed her severed
spine, and turned the fluid in her skull back into functioning brain
cells she'd recover. Short of that, nothing could be done. Couldn't the
same thing be said about every one of he hundreds of thousands of
people in the same or similar situation every year? Should we keep
everybody in a persistant vegetative state and with no (reasonable)
hope of recovery alive forever, wishing and hoping for a miracle?


Did you listen to the interviews?

No one can say for sure what her mental condition is. And there are now
many questions about Michael Shiavo's past treatment of Terri.

One has to err on the side of life when dealing with human life.


Bush only said that last line so as to not **** off his big voter block.
He's trying to stay away from Schiavo overall, and leave the screaming to
others. The interviews are propaganda because the MRI's, scans, and brain
activity don't lie. If Michael is guilty of something then investigate and
punish. That doesn't change the fact that she's a breathing corpse and
that
her parents and small group of supporters are in denial and desperate,
resorting even to lies to maintain "hope". This is a sad thing for all
involved.

-W



A great perspective from a conservative that feels she should be allowed to
die

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/n...20050324.shtml

I too think it is time for her to be 'let go'

One thing I can't stand about you right-wing nutbags is your perfect
willingness to twist facts and ignore scientific evidence whenever and
wherever it suits your needs.

As any competent internist would be more than happy to tell you is that
this sort of fracture response is a relatively common
osteoporosis-mediated response in comatose patients and is often a
result of prolonged tetanus (severe involuntary muscle contractions)
caused by electrolyte imbalance. I would point out that an electrolyte
imbalance is exactly what put this person in a vegetative coma to begin
with.

This nonsense is being propagated, purely, solely and only for
political gain, by the republican conservatives that are running our
country all to score more votes from the right-to-life hard-right
religious base.

This sad and painful nonsense is being orchestrated by George Bush and
his cohorts who, while he was Governor of Texas facilitated a bill
allowing for-profit hospitals to discontinue feeding, for comatose
patients who were indigent, broke, or whose health insurance had run
out - even against family wishes.

Bush is a callous and uncaring politician who works for the
uber-wealthy money changers who have polluted god's temple and who
personally doesn't give a rat's ass about the common working family
struggling to put bread on the table. Bush is nothing more than a
hypocrite who will surely burn in hell for his crimes. "it is easier
for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to
enter the gates of heaven".

Bush's cuts to medicare would ensure that people like Terri would
never even get 3 months of care much less for 14 years! In addition his
proposal to limit malpractice claims would mean that no one would be
able to claim the type of money that has kept Terri under 24-7 care for
the past 14 years. Terri is being made to needlessly suffer for nothing
more that cheap political shots to gather more republican votes. If she
wasn't famous and if her family hadn't been adopted by the
well-funded right-to-life coalition and if the republicans didn't
think they could score some votes, Terri would have been allowed to
pass on peacefully and gracefully a long time ago.

wrote in message
oups.com...

big snip of liebral whining

Terri would have been allowed to
pass on peacefully and gracefully a long time ago.


And this is Bush's fault how?

Free hint to the clueless...................it was Terri's parents that have
prolong the issue for the last decade.

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:27:00 -0500, "P.Fritz"
wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

A great perspective from a conservative that feels she should be allowed to
die

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/n...20050324.shtml

I too think it is time for her to be 'let go'

What would please me greatly, would be that Terri Schivao, just before
she passes on, wakes up, looks her husband and parents in the eye and
says "You *******s".

Later,

Tom

JimH wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

How many perspectives can there be when all the brain above the stem is
gone?

Sciavo's injury deprived the brain of oxygen. For 15 years! The stem,
at the base of the brain, controls heart and respiratory functions and
can initiate some reflexive motions. There is no capacity for thought,
for emotion, or for learning. Few people would ever look at Terri S and
say, "Please leave me in that condition for as long as I can hang on if
I ever suffer the same fate." There has been testimony from several
people that before the accident Terri had expressed a preference for
death vs. life as a vegetable if she was ever in the state that she is
in now.

Sciavo's parents may be like the retired folks we all know who turn a
household pet into a surrogate child or grandchild. Referrring to
thenselves as the dog's "Mom" or "Dad", dressing it up in goofy
clothes, and organizing daily life around its every need doesn't change
the basic fact that the dog is a dog. A dog has far more cognitive
ability than Terri Sciavo's breathing corpse has now, or will ever have
in the future.

If a miracle worker walked into her hospital room, healed her severed
spine, and turned the fluid in her skull back into functioning brain
cells she'd recover. Short of that, nothing could be done. Couldn't the
same thing be said about every one of he hundreds of thousands of
people in the same or similar situation every year? Should we keep
everybody in a persistant vegetative state and with no (reasonable)
hope of recovery alive forever, wishing and hoping for a miracle?



Did you listen to the interviews?

No one can say for sure what her mental condition is. And there are now
many questions about Michael Shiavo's past treatment of Terri.

One has to err on the side of life when dealing with human life.



That's why Bush and DeLay passed a law in Texas giving hospitals the
right to "pull the plug" when things look hopeless (and parents have run
out of money)

"Texas law allows hospitals to discontinue life-sustaining treatment,
even if a patient's family members disagree, under certain circumstances.

Under the statute, "Life-sustaining treatment" means treatment that,
based on reasonable medical judgment, sustains the life of a patient and
without which the patient will die. The term includes both
life-sustaining medications and artificial life support, such as
mechanical breathing machines, kidney dialysis treatment, and artificial
nutrition and hydration. [V.T.C.A., Health & Safety Code § 166.002]

Under the law, "A patient's inability to pay for medical care combined
with a prognosis that renders further care futile are two reasons a
hospital might suggest cutting off life support". Chief medical officer
at St. Luke's Episcopal Hospital, Houston.

Last week, Sun, the 17-pound, nearly 6-month-old son of Wanda Hudson was
allowed to die in Houston's Texas Children's Hospital. Sun's death marks
the first time a U.S. judge has allowed a hospital to discontinue an
infant's life-sustaining care against a parent's wishes, according to
bioethical experts.

Another case involving a patient on life support — a 68-year-old man in
a chronic vegetative state whose family wants to stop St. Luke's
Episcopal Hospital from turning off his ventilator — is pending in Houston.

This statute was signed into law by then-governor George W. Bush.
Houston is in the Congressional District of GOP Whip Tom Delay. The same
Tom Delay who was the point man for the special law passed on behalf of
Terri Schiavo."

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 05:37:01 GMT, "Clams Canino" wrote:

Best quote I've seen:

"Her heart failure deprived her Cerebral Cortex of oxygen causing it to
die. The dead brain cells were absorbed into her system and replaced
with cerebral fluid. So we don't have a case where there is a brain that
might suddenly kick into life and she recovers. The brain is gone...
absent... a void. Her recovery, assuming brains are important, would
require divine intervention and creation of a new brain. Some day they
may be able to transplant a new brain... but then there would be someone
else in her head. She's dead and they are keeping her body alive
artificially to play with and pretend it's their daughter. This is not
only wrong in many ways, it's macabre... like the movie Psycho."


I've seen that also (somewhere), and agree that this one seems to ring much more
true than the guy who said he could fix her.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

On 24 Mar 2005 08:30:43 -0800, wrote:

One thing I can't stand about you right-wing nutbags is your perfect
willingness to twist facts and ignore scientific evidence whenever and
wherever it suits your needs.

As any competent internist would be more than happy to tell you is that
this sort of fracture response is a relatively common
osteoporosis-mediated response in comatose patients and is often a
result of prolonged tetanus (severe involuntary muscle contractions)
caused by electrolyte imbalance. I would point out that an electrolyte
imbalance is exactly what put this person in a vegetative coma to begin
with.

This nonsense is being propagated, purely, solely and only for
political gain, by the republican conservatives that are running our
country all to score more votes from the right-to-life hard-right
religious base.

This sad and painful nonsense is being orchestrated by George Bush and
his cohorts who, while he was Governor of Texas facilitated a bill
allowing for-profit hospitals to discontinue feeding, for comatose
patients who were indigent, broke, or whose health insurance had run
out - even against family wishes.

Bush is a callous and uncaring politician who works for the
uber-wealthy money changers who have polluted god's temple and who
personally doesn't give a rat's ass about the common working family
struggling to put bread on the table. Bush is nothing more than a
hypocrite who will surely burn in hell for his crimes. "it is easier
for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to
enter the gates of heaven".

Bush's cuts to medicare would ensure that people like Terri would
never even get 3 months of care much less for 14 years! In addition his
proposal to limit malpractice claims would mean that no one would be
able to claim the type of money that has kept Terri under 24-7 care for
the past 14 years. Terri is being made to needlessly suffer for nothing
more that cheap political shots to gather more republican votes. If she
wasn't famous and if her family hadn't been adopted by the
well-funded right-to-life coalition and if the republicans didn't
think they could score some votes, Terri would have been allowed to
pass on peacefully and gracefully a long time ago.

How is she being made to needlessly suffer?
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."