Hey all,

I've been researching the right boat to buy with a buddy for about 4
months now. We are on the cusp of a purchase of a 1999 26' Bayliner
Ciera 2655 boat with 350 hours on it. We've had the survey, agreed on
the price, and all we need to do is sign the paperwork. I feel we're
getting a very good deal on it, and no other boats of the same year and
model on yachtworld are listed for a lower price.

But after learning from the seller all the things that have gone wrong
with it in the last 3 years (replaced starter, a couple of pumps,
props, other piece of the outdrive,) I'm getting cold feet. Already a
bilge blower broke since we first saw the boat and needs to be fixed
(might be minor, like a fuse or switch problem) and the water heater is
showing some rust. A couple of other things have broken (speedometer,
wipers) and were never fixed. In addition we need to paint the
outdrive because we're keeping it in the water (hull is already
painted.)

From what I've seen in other boats, this boat is in average shape for
its age and boats just simply have these kinds of problems. I think
I've come to the conclusion that boating is for people who would enjoy
spending a lot of time working on their boat themselves and
troubleshooting these kinds of things. Since I was hoping to have
something that generally worked and would let me spend a lot more time
enjoying the boat rather than arranging to get it fixed, I'm thinking
of backing out on the deal. I figure that these things to fix that
often crop up, in addition to arranging for regular maintenance (zincs,
oil change, scrub bottom, paint bottom, etc.) would take almost as much
time as I could spend out enjoying the boat.

thoughts?

If you've had a survey, you should be aware of what needs to be repaired and
how urgent the repair is.
The things you mention that have been repaired or need to be repaired are
not a big deal. The problem is that when you don't take care of things when
you're first aware of the need, you end up with a long list of things to be
done. A lot of us have spare light bulbs, fuses and at least a few tools
aboard to take care of the little things right away.
I usually make a note when something's wrong and try to check it out within
a day or two and either fix it or buy what I need to fix it and then repair
it within another couple of days. I trailer a 19' boat: it's hard to check
things out when underway because there isn't much space to move around. Once
I'm back on land it's a lot easier to get to things and work on them.

"sfcarioca" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hey all,

I've been researching the right boat to buy with a buddy for about 4
months now. We are on the cusp of a purchase of a 1999 26' Bayliner
Ciera 2655 boat with 350 hours on it. We've had the survey, agreed on
the price, and all we need to do is sign the paperwork. I feel we're
getting a very good deal on it, and no other boats of the same year and
model on yachtworld are listed for a lower price.

But after learning from the seller all the things that have gone wrong
with it in the last 3 years (replaced starter, a couple of pumps,
props, other piece of the outdrive,) I'm getting cold feet. Already a
bilge blower broke since we first saw the boat and needs to be fixed
(might be minor, like a fuse or switch problem) and the water heater is
showing some rust. A couple of other things have broken (speedometer,
wipers) and were never fixed. In addition we need to paint the
outdrive because we're keeping it in the water (hull is already
painted.)

From what I've seen in other boats, this boat is in average shape for
its age and boats just simply have these kinds of problems. I think
I've come to the conclusion that boating is for people who would enjoy
spending a lot of time working on their boat themselves and
troubleshooting these kinds of things. Since I was hoping to have
something that generally worked and would let me spend a lot more time
enjoying the boat rather than arranging to get it fixed, I'm thinking
of backing out on the deal. I figure that these things to fix that
often crop up, in addition to arranging for regular maintenance (zincs,
oil change, scrub bottom, paint bottom, etc.) would take almost as much
time as I could spend out enjoying the boat.

thoughts?

Apologies for top-posting. Here are a couple of things that I've found since
owning a boat:

1)- It will cost twice as much as you planned for maintenance and repairs.
2)- If you "do-it-yourself", you're sometimes going to end up doing it
yourself, then paying a professional to fix it.
3)- That my Bayliner is like a Ford Probe- it will get you there, but it
will fall apart long before a Cadillac or Oldmobile.
4)- Things will break, you'll get them fixed, and then they'll break again.
5)- That a used boat that has been used regularly and has more hours on it
is much better than one which has been used sporadically, or whose owners
have neglected to repair things. (what else have they neglected?)
6)- That I'm glad I started with a small boat to "get my feet wet" and learn
more about boating before wasting a lot of money and repair expenses on a
bigger boat.

If this is your first boat, my suggestion would be to start with a smaller,
less expensive boat and learn all you can about all of the things that will
inevitably pop up, and also about the general quality and quirks of
different brands and models of boats. Owning our little '85 Bayliner cuddy
and hanging out at the marina has taught us a great deal about boats this
last year, and we now know many of the things to look for when buying our
next boat, and what to avoid. We also now know just how expensive our new
hobby is...

Also, there is very likely a reason you are getting a "very good deal" on
this boat- think about it.



"sfcarioca" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hey all,

I've been researching the right boat to buy with a buddy for about 4
months now. We are on the cusp of a purchase of a 1999 26' Bayliner
Ciera 2655 boat with 350 hours on it. We've had the survey, agreed on
the price, and all we need to do is sign the paperwork. I feel we're
getting a very good deal on it, and no other boats of the same year and
model on yachtworld are listed for a lower price.

But after learning from the seller all the things that have gone wrong
with it in the last 3 years (replaced starter, a couple of pumps,
props, other piece of the outdrive,) I'm getting cold feet. Already a
bilge blower broke since we first saw the boat and needs to be fixed
(might be minor, like a fuse or switch problem) and the water heater is
showing some rust. A couple of other things have broken (speedometer,
wipers) and were never fixed. In addition we need to paint the
outdrive because we're keeping it in the water (hull is already
painted.)

From what I've seen in other boats, this boat is in average shape for
its age and boats just simply have these kinds of problems. I think
I've come to the conclusion that boating is for people who would enjoy
spending a lot of time working on their boat themselves and
troubleshooting these kinds of things. Since I was hoping to have
something that generally worked and would let me spend a lot more time
enjoying the boat rather than arranging to get it fixed, I'm thinking
of backing out on the deal. I figure that these things to fix that
often crop up, in addition to arranging for regular maintenance (zincs,
oil change, scrub bottom, paint bottom, etc.) would take almost as much
time as I could spend out enjoying the boat.

thoughts?

A maintenance and repair budget of $500 to $2000 a year is not unreasonable
for a 5 year old 26' I/O. Hope you have that much in your plans.


J



"sfcarioca" wrote in news:1111381207.373524.172670
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:

Hey all,

I've been researching the right boat to buy with a buddy for about 4
months now. We are on the cusp of a purchase of a 1999 26' Bayliner
Ciera 2655 boat with 350 hours on it. We've had the survey, agreed on
the price, and all we need to do is sign the paperwork. I feel we're
getting a very good deal on it, and no other boats of the same year and
model on yachtworld are listed for a lower price.

But after learning from the seller all the things that have gone wrong

On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 05:45:06 GMT, "Stanley Barthfarkle"
wrote:

Apologies for top-posting. Here are a couple of things that I've found since
owning a boat:

1)- It will cost twice as much as you planned for maintenance and repairs.
2)- If you "do-it-yourself", you're sometimes going to end up doing it
yourself, then paying a professional to fix it.
3)- That my Bayliner is like a Ford Probe- it will get you there, but it
will fall apart long before a Cadillac or Oldmobile.
4)- Things will break, you'll get them fixed, and then they'll break again.
5)- That a used boat that has been used regularly and has more hours on it
is much better than one which has been used sporadically, or whose owners
have neglected to repair things. (what else have they neglected?)
6)- That I'm glad I started with a small boat to "get my feet wet" and learn
more about boating before wasting a lot of money and repair expenses on a
bigger boat.

If this is your first boat, my suggestion would be to start with a smaller,
less expensive boat and learn all you can about all of the things that will
inevitably pop up, and also about the general quality and quirks of
different brands and models of boats. Owning our little '85 Bayliner cuddy
and hanging out at the marina has taught us a great deal about boats this
last year, and we now know many of the things to look for when buying our
next boat, and what to avoid. We also now know just how expensive our new
hobby is...

Also, there is very likely a reason you are getting a "very good deal" on
this boat- think about it.

Knowledge is the best defense.

Nice post.

Later,

Tom

If you keep an outdrive boat in the water all the time you need to double
any earlier annual maintenance budget suggestions you have heard. In
addition to the extra cost of maintaining outdrives kept in water you'll
have at least the annual cost of hauling to do bottom work.

YMMV.

Butch
"sfcarioca" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hey all,

I've been researching the right boat to buy with a buddy for about 4
months now. We are on the cusp of a purchase of a 1999 26' Bayliner
Ciera 2655 boat with 350 hours on it. We've had the survey, agreed on
the price, and all we need to do is sign the paperwork. I feel we're
getting a very good deal on it, and no other boats of the same year and
model on yachtworld are listed for a lower price.

But after learning from the seller all the things that have gone wrong
with it in the last 3 years (replaced starter, a couple of pumps,
props, other piece of the outdrive,) I'm getting cold feet. Already a
bilge blower broke since we first saw the boat and needs to be fixed
(might be minor, like a fuse or switch problem) and the water heater is
showing some rust. A couple of other things have broken (speedometer,
wipers) and were never fixed. In addition we need to paint the
outdrive because we're keeping it in the water (hull is already
painted.)

From what I've seen in other boats, this boat is in average shape for
its age and boats just simply have these kinds of problems. I think
I've come to the conclusion that boating is for people who would enjoy
spending a lot of time working on their boat themselves and
troubleshooting these kinds of things. Since I was hoping to have
something that generally worked and would let me spend a lot more time
enjoying the boat rather than arranging to get it fixed, I'm thinking
of backing out on the deal. I figure that these things to fix that
often crop up, in addition to arranging for regular maintenance (zincs,
oil change, scrub bottom, paint bottom, etc.) would take almost as much
time as I could spend out enjoying the boat.

thoughts?

sfcarioca wrote:
Hey all,

I've been researching the right boat to buy with a buddy

Hmmm, could be trouble. Owning a boat in partnership is a very touchy
relationship.


... We are on the cusp of a purchase of a 1999 26' Bayliner
Ciera 2655 boat with 350 hours on it. We've had the survey, agreed on
the price, and all we need to do is sign the paperwork. I feel we're
getting a very good deal on it, and no other boats of the same year and
model on yachtworld are listed for a lower price.

But after learning from the seller all the things that have gone wrong
with it in the last 3 years (replaced starter, a couple of pumps,
props, other piece of the outdrive,) I'm getting cold feet.

Maybe you're finding out why it's at such a low price.

BTW boat prices are truly a free-for-all. Very few boats change hands at
asking price or even within 10%. It's not uncommon for a boat that
"needs TLC" to go for half or less than what the same model in cherry
condition would fetch.

... Already a
bilge blower broke since we first saw the boat and needs to be fixed
(might be minor, like a fuse or switch problem) and the water heater is
showing some rust. A couple of other things have broken (speedometer,
wipers) and were never fixed. In addition we need to paint the
outdrive because we're keeping it in the water (hull is already
painted.)


Sounds like this boat is basically going to need everything replaced.

From what I've seen in other boats, this boat is in average shape for
its age and boats just simply have these kinds of problems.

Not really. It's true that boats are relatively work-intensive but for
the most part, a properly designed & built & maintained boat should not
have constant breakdowns.

... I think
I've come to the conclusion that boating is for people who would enjoy
spending a lot of time working on their boat themselves and
troubleshooting these kinds of things.

Definitely. If you're not a "fix it yourself" kind of guy then buying a
16 year old IO with maintenance problems is going to be an expensive
nightmare.


... I figure that these things to fix that
often crop up, in addition to arranging for regular maintenance (zincs,
oil change, scrub bottom, paint bottom, etc.) would take almost as much
time as I could spend out enjoying the boat.

Not really. There is a fair amount of regular maintenance but it should
be a burden. But if you hate working on the boat, then you're going to
dodge maintenance and things are going to break down and/or need
replacing more often, as well as the boat will be less reliable.

Fair Skies
Doug King

It sounds to me like time maintaining the boat, not money, is you major
issue. Of course you don't want to spend more than you need to and everyone
has a budget, but it seems that you are more concerned about time spent than
money spent. ~ If this is the case, I'd suggest you get a smaller & newer
boat with fewer problems. The bigger the boat the bigger the problems. Boats
with hot-water heaters, DC and AC electrical systems, twin engines, fresh
water storage tanks, etc. etc. have a lot more to go wrong with them than
smaller boats. Of course, if you want and/or need all those things then,
well, you need them. But you might at least consider if you'ld get more
enjoyment out of a smaller boat.

Boat prices are a weird thing too. Some here have suggested that the reason
the price on this particular boat is so low relative to others in it's class
is because it has more problems. That may well be true. But my (limited)
experience indicates that used boat prices are very different than used car
prices. In the car market it's pretty clear what the car is worth and what
the market will bear. In any given area there are probably 100s or 1000s of
cars very similar to that one. With boats, it's often not that way. With
boats, the owner often gets to a point that he just wants to sell, and the
price really isn't as big a factor.

Boat partnerships. I shared a boat with a guy and it works out fine. We
didn't even know each other that well before we did it. But I think our case
was unusual. Sharing a boat with someone is a tricky thing. Who pays for
what? If something breaks when he's out, is it his fault or do you share it?
When you use the boat and leave some stuff on board at the end of the day,
will he get mad you didn't clean it back to perfect condition? I'm not
saying it can't work - just think it through.

Again, I'd say consider a smaller, newer boat that you can own all by
yourself. It might be a better chioice for you.

Gary





"sfcarioca" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hey all,

I've been researching the right boat to buy with a buddy for about 4
months now. We are on the cusp of a purchase of a 1999 26' Bayliner
Ciera 2655 boat with 350 hours on it. We've had the survey, agreed on
the price, and all we need to do is sign the paperwork. I feel we're
getting a very good deal on it, and no other boats of the same year and
model on yachtworld are listed for a lower price.

But after learning from the seller all the things that have gone wrong
with it in the last 3 years (replaced starter, a couple of pumps,
props, other piece of the outdrive,) I'm getting cold feet. Already a
bilge blower broke since we first saw the boat and needs to be fixed
(might be minor, like a fuse or switch problem) and the water heater is
showing some rust. A couple of other things have broken (speedometer,
wipers) and were never fixed. In addition we need to paint the
outdrive because we're keeping it in the water (hull is already
painted.)

From what I've seen in other boats, this boat is in average shape for
its age and boats just simply have these kinds of problems. I think
I've come to the conclusion that boating is for people who would enjoy
spending a lot of time working on their boat themselves and
troubleshooting these kinds of things. Since I was hoping to have
something that generally worked and would let me spend a lot more time
enjoying the boat rather than arranging to get it fixed, I'm thinking
of backing out on the deal. I figure that these things to fix that
often crop up, in addition to arranging for regular maintenance (zincs,
oil change, scrub bottom, paint bottom, etc.) would take almost as much
time as I could spend out enjoying the boat.

thoughts?

I no longer own a boat but during the many years that I did own one it seems
to me that I spent as much time working on it, or working overtime to afford
repairs, insurance, fuel etc, as I did riding in it. Also, I would guess
that If I divided the total cost of boat ownership by the weight of fish I
caught then the cost of the fish would be well over $100 per pound. Having
said that however, some of my fondest memories are of fishing in my boat out
on the ocean. If my financial situation ever improves enough that I can
afford another boat I will not hesitate to buy one. You are a long time
dead, might as well enjoy life while you can.
"Butch Davis" wrote in message
et...
If you keep an outdrive boat in the water all the time you need to double
any earlier annual maintenance budget suggestions you have heard. In
addition to the extra cost of maintaining outdrives kept in water you'll
have at least the annual cost of hauling to do bottom work.

YMMV.

Butch
"sfcarioca" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hey all,

I've been researching the right boat to buy with a buddy for about 4
months now. We are on the cusp of a purchase of a 1999 26' Bayliner
Ciera 2655 boat with 350 hours on it. We've had the survey, agreed on
the price, and all we need to do is sign the paperwork. I feel we're
getting a very good deal on it, and no other boats of the same year and
model on yachtworld are listed for a lower price.

But after learning from the seller all the things that have gone wrong
with it in the last 3 years (replaced starter, a couple of pumps,
props, other piece of the outdrive,) I'm getting cold feet. Already a
bilge blower broke since we first saw the boat and needs to be fixed
(might be minor, like a fuse or switch problem) and the water heater is
showing some rust. A couple of other things have broken (speedometer,
wipers) and were never fixed. In addition we need to paint the
outdrive because we're keeping it in the water (hull is already
painted.)

From what I've seen in other boats, this boat is in average shape for
its age and boats just simply have these kinds of problems. I think
I've come to the conclusion that boating is for people who would enjoy
spending a lot of time working on their boat themselves and
troubleshooting these kinds of things. Since I was hoping to have
something that generally worked and would let me spend a lot more time
enjoying the boat rather than arranging to get it fixed, I'm thinking
of backing out on the deal. I figure that these things to fix that
often crop up, in addition to arranging for regular maintenance (zincs,
oil change, scrub bottom, paint bottom, etc.) would take almost as much
time as I could spend out enjoying the boat.

thoughts?

On 20 Mar 2005 21:00:07 -0800, "sfcarioca"
wrote:
From what I've seen in other boats, this boat is in average shape for
its age and boats just simply have these kinds of problems. I think
I've come to the conclusion that boating is for people who would enjoy
spending a lot of time working on their boat themselves and
troubleshooting these kinds of things. Since I was hoping to have
something that generally worked and would let me spend a lot more time
enjoying the boat rather than arranging to get it fixed, I'm thinking
of backing out on the deal. I figure that these things to fix that
often crop up, in addition to arranging for regular maintenance (zincs,
oil change, scrub bottom, paint bottom, etc.) would take almost as much
time as I could spend out enjoying the boat.

===========================================

Sounds like normal stuff to me. All boats are high maintenance and it
is not unusual to spend between 5 and 10% of the original purchase
price on annual repairs and upgrades, sometimes more. You can save
some of that by doing the work yourself if you have the time and
expertise, but other things will require cash expenditures. Unless
you can afford to pay others, expect to spend a fair amount of time
working on the boat. You might be happier with a small outboard
powered boat with minimal electronics and other systems. As a rule
these are more maintenance free than larger inboard or stern drive
boats.

As an FYI, maintenance and upgrades are a frequent point of contention
on partnership boats. Most often one partner will feel that they are
getting stuck with all of the work, or one partner will want to spend
money on upgrades that the other partner does not want.

It has been said that the most important section of any partnership
agreement are the terms and conditions for breaking up the deal.