BoatBanter.com - Canada's health care crisis

BoatBanter.com (https://www.boatbanter.com/)

- General (https://www.boatbanter.com/general/)

- - Canada's health care crisis (https://www.boatbanter.com/general/29324-canadas-health-care-crisis.html)

Further to rick's post:
=================

http://www.pentictonherald.ca/?nopic...ate=2004/09/15

==============

This article also nicely puts to rest Scott's notions of some huge
bureaucracy of socialist technocrats pulling the healthcare strings in
Canada.

In the case in question, the lone orthopedic surgeon in a small town
can't cope with the waiting list for joint replacements. Why, if there
are such bureaucrats, don't they just "order" some orthopedic surgeons
from more urban centers to go to this community to help out? Could it
be that there are no such bureaucrats. And, on top of that, could it be
that doctors operate as entrepreneurs and most choose not to live in
smaller communities.

frtzw906

KMAN disparages:
=============
Agh. More snotty types of coffee too :-)
===========

Hmmmm... not that I'm aware of. I generally wipe the barista's nose
before I let him near my lattes.

We have been known, however, to be a tad snooty about quality of the
biscotti we'll ingest -- only imported, don't you know.

Wilf

"BCITORGB" wrote in message
oups.com...
rick reports:
============
Despite the jingoistic spewing of others, here is a ase of a
man,
not a teen, waiting for new knees. 2 1/2 years. It's so bad
that it is now bone on bone and his pain meds have been upped
to
morphine.
http://www.pentictonherald.ca/?nopic...ate=2004/09/15

This guy isn't willing to wait. Why would you support that he
has to?
================

rick, that's an interesting article that presents us with a
number of
factors to consider.

First of all, we're not exactly talking an urban setting here.
Penticton is a small town which has only one orthopedic
surgeon. THIS
surgeon's waiting list is 290-plus. Further, let's examine why
there
might be that many on the waiting list. Penticton is not only
an
orchard/vineyard agricultural center, but it is also a
preferred
retirement center for many Canadians. Hence, there are a great
many
older, retired folk in this community. Net result: high demand
for
joint replacements.
=============================
Let's also see that there are other sugeons in the area. This
guy just cannot avail himself of them because of a have, have-not
system. He is loked into a waiting list despite there being
available capacity.

I suspect the man in question, in this article, could get
referred to
orthopedic surgeons in other centers (perhaps Vancouver) where
there
are likely to be more orthopedic surgeons (greater supply,
hence less
waiting). The guy in question, however, is unwilling to shut
down his
business for a few days to have the procedure done elsewhere.
At this
point, I take a Scott Weiser approach to him: "Tough ****!"
====================
Looks like you're reading that into the story, not reading it.
Why would he have looked into going to the states for treatment
if he was unwilling to leave at all. I doubt that he can go to
other facilities in the health system he is tied to.

I think it unrealistic, living in a nation as sparsely populatd
as
Canada, to expect every medical convenience in every nook and
cranny of
this huge nation. For purposes of efficiency and economies,
some
services (medical and otherwise) are only going to be available
in
major centers. This guy bemoans the fact that shutting down his
business, to have the surgery done elsewhere, will cost him
$220/day.
Hey, I live in an urban center, and just on house values alone
I'll bet
I spend $400-$500 more per month on my mortgage than he does.
The
Weiser sapproach again: "Suck it up buddy, and take a trip to
Vancouver
and get your surgery done."

An interesting quote: "Binfet said it would cost $45,000 US to
have the
surgery done in Bellingham, Wash., and that's for one knee
only. "I
can't afford it," he said."

Hey the guy needs two knees done. That's $90,000. He can't
afford it.

The bottom line is, I thinks there's much more to the story
than just
the headline.

Interesting, nonetheless.

frtzw906

"BCITORGB" wrote in message
oups.com...
rick:
==============
http://www.ices.on.ca/file/14_CVA_Chapter12.pdf .
=================

Thanks also for this very informative source:

Some key points:

Urgent Coronary By-pass surgery done almost immediately...
semi-urgent
had a wait of about 5 days... elective about 55 days... that
doesn't
seem bad to me...

Waiting List Mortality for Cardiac Surgery in Ontario: 0.5
percent (I
have no idea how that compares with stats around the world -
it's
cardiac surgery, i guess there'll always be people dying...)

Perhaps there are medical professionals out there who could
answer:
should the people of Ontario be concerned by those numbers?
==========================
There are doctors there that think so...
http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/170/3/354

frtzw906

"BCITORGB" wrote in message
ups.com...
rick reckons:
==============
By the way you've been reasoning that means making sure that
everyone again waits weeks, months, years for teatment.
====================

Not at all. How do you figure that?
=================
Because what you really want is for 'special' treatment to end,
thereby making everyone wait like they do now. You aren't going
to 'fix' the problems you have now. That's why these private
clinics are coming into being.

rick again:
===================
If you were aware of the exceptions, then why have you been
arguing like there were none?
===============

Where did you see me arguing as though there were none?
Everyone (in BC
anyway, if they follow media reports) is aware of the WCB
exemptions,
and many are opposed to it. As I said: a flaw, so let's fix it.
==================
You've continued to argue that no one has any special treatment.
That there are no ways to get ahead o the waiting lists.

frtzw906

"Michael Daly" wrote in message
...

On 26-Mar-2005, "rick" wrote:

They do get
to step out of line and go to private surgical clinics instead
o
waiting like the rest o the minions...

This is bull**** as well. There are a lot of folks that can go
to
private clinics and avoid lines. The health care ministers
pretend that this doesn't happen.
==================
LOL Thanks for admitting I'm right. There is a dual system
already in place in Canada. The prefered get to have their
treatment first, regardless of how many more serious cases may be
in front of them. Maybe the ministers pretend it doesn't happen
because they also take advantage of the system.

Mike

LOL Thanks for admitting I'm right. There is a dual system
already in place in Canada. The prefered get to have their
treatment first, regardless of how many more serious cases may be
in front of them. Maybe the ministers pretend it doesn't happen
because they also take advantage of the system.

As one who lives in Ottawa I can assure you that Minsters and their staff
are among the preferred. Queue jumping among those in control occurs in
every socialist system. It only works according to the theory for the
little people who pay the cost.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned