"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...


What happened? China joined the WTO in December? That's a good thing.
They'll make agreements through the WTO, and then the WTO will ensure that
they're living up to their agreements.

What an interesting comment. You profess that the U.N. is a useless,
toothless organization, but you now think the WTO is worthwhile and
effective.

NOBBY wrote
What happened? China joined the WTO in December? That's a good thing.
They'll make agreements through the WTO, and then the WTO will ensure that
they're living up to their agreements.


Doug Kanter wrote:
What an interesting comment. You profess that the U.N. is a useless,
toothless organization, but you now think the WTO is worthwhile and
effective.


Which is particularly ironic, considering that the WTO has already tried
to slap China's fingers and have been laughably ineffective...
"toothless" in other words...

But y'know, it seems that Bush/Cheney supporters are prone to this kind
of tail-biting in their attempts at logic. They don't seem to mind...
many times they don't even notice...

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
What a laugh. China could trash the US economy with the stroke of a pen.


NOYB wrote:
And we could do the same to them.

How?

Their economy is totally dependent on US purchases.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...


What happened? China joined the WTO in December? That's a good thing.
They'll make agreements through the WTO, and then the WTO will ensure
that they're living up to their agreements.

What an interesting comment. You profess that the U.N. is a useless,
toothless organization, but you now think the WTO is worthwhile and
effective.

It's only useful to sway world opinion. To China, that's a big deal. China
buys very little from the rest of the World, but exports a ton. If the
World quit buying US products, we'd be hurt, but we wouldn't wither and die.
If the world quit buying Chinese products, their economy would be decimated.

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
What a laugh. China could trash the US economy with the stroke of a
pen.


NOYB wrote:
And we could do the same to them.

How?

Their economy is totally dependent on US purchases.

The PRC is NOT totally dependent on the USA. Where did you ever get that
impression? China is a HUGE trading partner for the whole of Europe,
Japan, Australia, Canada, Mexico and some of the Countries of South American
and South Africa. You need to get a Global Education and not be so narrow
minded.

Jim

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
What a laugh. China could trash the US economy with the stroke of a pen.


NOYB wrote:
And we could do the same to them.

How?

Their economy is totally dependent on US purchases.


You better hope your president fears Wal Mart's wrath more than the god he
pretends to worship.

"HarryKrause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"HarryKrause" wrote in message
...

Doug Kanter wrote:

"HarryKrause" wrote in message
...


NOYB wrote:


"HarryKrause" wrote in message
...

From ABC NEws:


China passes Taiwan anti-secession law

China's parliament has unanimously passed a law giving the Chinese
military the legal basis to attack Taiwan if it moves towards
independence.

The National People's Congress passed the legislation by an
overwhelming majority of 2,896 votes for and none against. Two
delegates abstained.

The text of the draft, according to the Xinhua news agency, calls for
the use of "non-peaceful means and other necessary measures to
protect China's sovereignty and territorial integrity", if all else
fails.

This will be necessary "in the event that the 'Taiwan independence'
secessionist forces should act under any name or by any means to
cause the fact of Taiwan's secession from China", the draft law said.

It does not specify what is meant by "non-peaceful means" but
analysts believe it would cover anything from blockade to surgical
missile strikes and all-out invasion.

The law takes effect immediately.

On his appointment as China's top military chief, President Hu Jintao
told the army to prepare for war to safeguard the country's
territorial integrity, in an apparent reference to Taiwan.


- - -

You won't see or hear much from the Bush neoconvicts on this; if
you've got the ability to fight back, the good ol' USA will give you
a pass.


That'd be a little too much on our plate right now. Let the Middle
East situation continue to come into shape. Once there are stable
pro-US governments in the oil-producing countries, the World will have
a have a more potent economic weapon to use against the Chinese.


Apples and oranges. I stated Bush wouldn't have the balls to play
military footsie with the PRC. We only take on ****ant military powers
militarily.



NPR news reported last week that China is years away from being able to
coordinate its various forces in the way we can now, and that this keeps
them from being as big a threat some would like to believe.


China *has* WMDs, including nukes, and the ability to deliver them where
they want.


Go to www.npr.org and browse last week's story archives for either the
morning or afternoon shows. Not sure when I heard it. They have the toys,
but the DoD veteran they interviewed said that they'd have a hard time
defending against certain common types of military action, due to their
lack of modern coordination methods.

I think you are missing my point. What I stated was this: China can
*deliver* large-scale WMDs onto our shores. The fact that it has a large
standing army is not relevant. If we play footsie with the PRC, we will
have nukes and suchlike raining down on us.

Then you've just answered your own question as to why we pick on 3rd rate
military powers and ignore nuclear armed countries like China and North
Korea. Once the WMD cat is let out of the proverbial bag in these 3rd
rate countries, all of the arm-twisting in the world no longer works. It's
not too late to prevent that from happening in the Middle East.

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:32:19 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...

Closer to perfecting? If you leave Boston, driving to Texas, and your car
dies and ends your trip just north of Hartford CT, yes, you are closer
than when you left Boston, but not enough to user the word "closer" with
any sense of celebration.

That's not an apt analogy. A better one would be:
You make a trip to Texas 8 different times. Two of those times, your car
dies somewhere in the midwest...and once, it once wouldn't start in the
driveway. The other 5 trips went just as planned. The missile defense
tests have hit their mark 5 out of 8 times. I'd say we're "closer to
perfecting" the system. I would estimate that before the end of Bush's
second term, we'll have at least some semblance of a working system in
place.

Just one problem: The system could have two purposes.

1) Prevent an attack which we had absolutely nothing to do with provoking.
This is a good thing.

2) Prevent a RESPONSE to a situation created by a group consisting of one
idiot and a handful of madmen, who think that a good way to free up some oil
supply would be to cripple or eliminate the world's *other* legitimate
customer, China.

#2 is highly likely, considering the fact that your master and his crew have
already shown that they like to create mayhem where there was none before.




What's happening now is nothing new. Didn't you follow the space program
before we successfully landed on the moon? Would you argue that with each
test...some successful, and some not...that we weren't any "closer to
perfecting" our ability to reach the moon?

Moon missions could've have failed endlessly for 20 years and it would not
have been the same, since the systems being developed were not needed to
back up the threats of a madman. There was nothing to lose but the lives of
volunteers, and a lot of time spent debating the budget of the thing in
Congress.


Would you rather the response be successful?

--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:32:19 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

wrote:

"NOYB" wrote in message
hlink.net...

Closer to perfecting? If you leave Boston, driving to Texas, and your
car
dies and ends your trip just north of Hartford CT, yes, you are closer
than when you left Boston, but not enough to user the word "closer"
with
any sense of celebration.

That's not an apt analogy. A better one would be:
You make a trip to Texas 8 different times. Two of those times, your
car
dies somewhere in the midwest...and once, it once wouldn't start in the
driveway. The other 5 trips went just as planned. The missile defense
tests have hit their mark 5 out of 8 times. I'd say we're "closer to
perfecting" the system. I would estimate that before the end of Bush's
second term, we'll have at least some semblance of a working system in
place.

Just one problem: The system could have two purposes.

1) Prevent an attack which we had absolutely nothing to do with provoking.
This is a good thing.

2) Prevent a RESPONSE to a situation created by a group consisting of one
idiot and a handful of madmen, who think that a good way to free up some
oil
supply would be to cripple or eliminate the world's *other* legitimate
customer, China.

#2 is highly likely, considering the fact that your master and his crew
have
already shown that they like to create mayhem where there was none before.




What's happening now is nothing new. Didn't you follow the space
program
before we successfully landed on the moon? Would you argue that with
each
test...some successful, and some not...that we weren't any "closer to
perfecting" our ability to reach the moon?

Moon missions could've have failed endlessly for 20 years and it would not
have been the same, since the systems being developed were not needed to
back up the threats of a madman. There was nothing to lose but the lives
of
volunteers, and a lot of time spent debating the budget of the thing in
Congress.


Would you rather the response be successful?

The point was that NOYB thinks the system, which is seriously hobbled by
technical problems, is close to be "good enough". In fact, the system has to
be perfect if it will be placed in operation while Bush is in office because
as you know, your president *will* say or do something stupid and bust open
yet another hornet's nest, just like he did in Iraq.

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
What a laugh. China could trash the US economy with the stroke of a
pen.


NOYB wrote:
And we could do the same to them.

How?

Their economy is totally dependent on US purchases.

The PRC is NOT totally dependent on the USA. Where did you ever get that
impression? China is a HUGE trading partner for the whole of Europe,
Japan, Australia, Canada, Mexico and some of the Countries of South
American
and South Africa. You need to get a Global Education and not be so
narrow
minded.

Nearly 18% of Chinese exports go to the US. Since we're discussing the
effect that Chinese aggression against Taiwan would have, then it's safe to
say that China would lose the following trade partners in the event of a war
with Taiwan: US, Japan, and Taiwan. Together, those three countries make
up 3 of China's top 5 trade partners...and almost 44% of China's total
exports. It's also likely that China would lose the following as trade
partners: Hong Kong, S. Korea, and Germany. That'd account for 70% of
China's trade.

Keep in mind, that this says nothing about the effect that our corporations
would have in pulling their factories out China.