On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 22:22:54 GMT, "Jim," wrote:

John H wrote:
On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 21:06:20 GMT, "Jim," wrote:



He recorded all the payroll taxes he paid into the system (including the
matching amount from his employer), tracked down the return the Social
Security Trust Fund earned for each of the 45 years, and then compared
the result with what he would have gotten had he been able to invest the
same amount of payroll tax money over the same period in the Dow Jones
Industrial Average (including dividends).


Which explains why one should never put all their investment eggs in one basket.
Even the Thrift Savings Plan allows diversification.

We can all find examples which would give a return less than the social security
return.


John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

The Dow is composed of 10 companies supposedly representing a cross
section of American industry (loosely defined of late) and is updated
periodically -- so go back to 1950 and see just how many companies he
invested in. I believe the Dow is a good measure of the economy, and
lists the type of large cap conservative company one should invest in
for their retirement.

Go here and read up:

http://www.djindexes.com/mdsidx/inde... &sitemapid=20

I'm wondering what happened to the other twenty companies that made up the Dow
Jones Industrial Average up to about 10 minutes ago.

Your investment beliefs may not be all that wise.


John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 17:24:51 -0500, "P.Fritz"
wrote:


"John H" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 21:06:20 GMT, "Jim," wrote:



He recorded all the payroll taxes he paid into the system (including the
matching amount from his employer), tracked down the return the Social
Security Trust Fund earned for each of the 45 years, and then compared
the result with what he would have gotten had he been able to invest the
same amount of payroll tax money over the same period in the Dow Jones
Industrial Average (including dividends).

Which explains why one should never put all their investment eggs in one
basket.
Even the Thrift Savings Plan allows diversification.

We can all find examples which would give a return less than the social
security
return.

And it still does NOT account for the fact that you cannot spend the money
the way you see fit, and may not get any of it.

For example, if it is your won retirement account, and at age 72, you find
that you a a disease that will take you life in 2 years, if it is your own
money, you can enjoy life for the next 2 years as you see fit, with SS, you
are stuck with the meager monthly check. If you die at age 59, and your
kids areover 18, the guvmint keeps everything.

If there was no SS at the current time.....no sane preosn would agree to a
system like there is now, where current workers pay for those that are
already retired. In any other industry, it would be called a pyramid
scheme and be illegal.

The fact that the liebrals wish to bury their heads in the sand and pretend
everything is just dandy is mind boggling.

They do seem to enjoy skipping over that part. There seems to be an inclination
amongst many of them to tell only 'part' of the story. I think they get that
from ABC, NBC, CBS, and CNN.


John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

John H wrote:
On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 22:22:54 GMT, "Jim," wrote:


John H wrote:

On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 21:06:20 GMT, "Jim," wrote:




He recorded all the payroll taxes he paid into the system (including the
matching amount from his employer), tracked down the return the Social
Security Trust Fund earned for each of the 45 years, and then compared
the result with what he would have gotten had he been able to invest the
same amount of payroll tax money over the same period in the Dow Jones
Industrial Average (including dividends).


Which explains why one should never put all their investment eggs in one basket.
Even the Thrift Savings Plan allows diversification.

We can all find examples which would give a return less than the social security
return.


John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

The Dow is composed of 10 companies supposedly representing a cross
section of American industry (loosely defined of late) and is updated
periodically -- so go back to 1950 and see just how many companies he
invested in. I believe the Dow is a good measure of the economy, and
lists the type of large cap conservative company one should invest in
for their retirement.


Go here and read up:

http://www.djindexes.com/mdsidx/inde... &sitemapid=20

I'm wondering what happened to the other twenty companies that made up the Dow
Jones Industrial Average up to about 10 minutes ago.

Your investment beliefs may not be all that wise.


John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."
Yes I mistyped -- Dow 30 (in the beginning it was 12)-- BUT how many
companies have been represented since 1950?

Find a list here
http://www.djindexes.com/mdsidx/down..._Hist_Comp.pdf
Some of the companies no longer exist, but were the strong companies of
their time.

All in all I'd consider them reasonably good investments for the long haul.

See
http://www.finfacts.com/Private/cure...erformance.htm

For the returns from 1939 to 2004


The Social Security Act was signed by FDR on 8/14/35. Taxes were
collected for the first time in January 1937 and the first one-time,
lump-sum payments were made that same month. Regular ongoing monthly
benefits started in January 1940.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...


But you think shopping at Wal-Mart is ok...


Apparently. it's ok to love commies if you can save a buck or two on a new
toaster.

Jim, wrote:

John H wrote:

On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 22:22:54 GMT, "Jim," wrote:


John H wrote:

On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 21:06:20 GMT, "Jim," wrote:




He recorded all the payroll taxes he paid into the system
(including the matching amount from his employer), tracked down the
return the Social Security Trust Fund earned for each of the 45
years, and then compared the result with what he would have gotten
had he been able to invest the same amount of payroll tax money
over the same period in the Dow Jones Industrial Average (including
dividends).



Which explains why one should never put all their investment eggs in
one basket.
Even the Thrift Savings Plan allows diversification.
We can all find examples which would give a return less than the
social security
return.

John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."


The Dow is composed of 10 companies supposedly representing a cross
section of American industry (loosely defined of late) and is
updated periodically -- so go back to 1950 and see just how many
companies he invested in. I believe the Dow is a good measure of the
economy, and lists the type of large cap conservative company one
should invest in for their retirement.



Go here and read up:

http://www.djindexes.com/mdsidx/inde... &sitemapid=20


I'm wondering what happened to the other twenty companies that made up
the Dow
Jones Industrial Average up to about 10 minutes ago.
Your investment beliefs may not be all that wise.


John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

Yes I mistyped -- Dow 30 (in the beginning it was 12)-- BUT how many
companies have been represented since 1950?

Find a list here
http://www.djindexes.com/mdsidx/down..._Hist_Comp.pdf
Some of the companies no longer exist, but were the strong companies of
their time.

All in all I'd consider them reasonably good investments for the long haul.

See
http://www.finfacts.com/Private/cure...erformance.htm

For the returns from 1939 to 2004


The Social Security Act was signed by FDR on 8/14/35. Taxes were
collected for the first time in January 1937 and the first one-time,
lump-sum payments were made that same month. Regular ongoing monthly
benefits started in January 1940.

Of possible interest are the charts at
http://www.djindexes.com/mdsidx/inde...t=showAverages
Which overlay a graph of the Dow with historical events

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Bert Robbins wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

Calif Bill wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...


NOYB wrote:


"DSK" wrote in message
.net...



NOYB wrote:



I'd happily forgo my Social Security check later in life as long as
I

am


exempt from paying FICA today.


Same here, and I'm a lot closer to collecting than you are. If Bush &
Cheney were seriously interested in reforming or fixing Social
Security
(instead of their plan being a subterfuge to harvest campaign
contributions from Wall St), they'd offer that option.



They can't. That's the fundamental flaw of the system. We're not

putting


money away for our retirement. We're paying for the retirement of
those

who


are now retired.




Those who are now retired made it possible for you.



No, we have a "Trust Fund" of money. It is a "lock box" of money.




Sorry, I'm talking here about the opportunities created for today's
generations by those those who came before.


Isn't that what every preceeding generation does for the next throught
the whole of history?



It was until recently. Social Security is part of that legacy.

Social Security is a waste of money. If we get private accounts then people
will be able to retire at an earlier age freeing up positions for the next
generation to move up.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Bert Robbins wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message
...

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

elections.

Still, a good commie is a dead commie!



Bert...most of us have left the 50's far behind. We don't mind a little
'50s
rock & roll on occasion...but that's it!


Communism is still bad and should be stamped out wherever it is and
whenever it rears its ugly head again.



But you think shopping at Wal-Mart is ok...

Didn't we go over this last night? China is an oligarchy.

"Don White" wrote in message
...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...


But you think shopping at Wal-Mart is ok...


Apparently. it's ok to love commies if you can save a buck or two on a new
toaster.

Don, I see that you still can't think for yourself.

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...


Don, I see that you still can't think for yourself.


Maybe I'd be a good candidate for your army. Would you vouch for me?

On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 23:20:30 GMT, "Jim," wrote:

John H wrote:
On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 22:22:54 GMT, "Jim," wrote:


John H wrote:

On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 21:06:20 GMT, "Jim," wrote:




He recorded all the payroll taxes he paid into the system (including the
matching amount from his employer), tracked down the return the Social
Security Trust Fund earned for each of the 45 years, and then compared
the result with what he would have gotten had he been able to invest the
same amount of payroll tax money over the same period in the Dow Jones
Industrial Average (including dividends).


Which explains why one should never put all their investment eggs in one basket.
Even the Thrift Savings Plan allows diversification.

We can all find examples which would give a return less than the social security
return.


John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

The Dow is composed of 10 companies supposedly representing a cross
section of American industry (loosely defined of late) and is updated
periodically -- so go back to 1950 and see just how many companies he
invested in. I believe the Dow is a good measure of the economy, and
lists the type of large cap conservative company one should invest in
for their retirement.


Go here and read up:

http://www.djindexes.com/mdsidx/inde... &sitemapid=20

I'm wondering what happened to the other twenty companies that made up the Dow
Jones Industrial Average up to about 10 minutes ago.

Your investment beliefs may not be all that wise.


John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."
Yes I mistyped -- Dow 30 (in the beginning it was 12)-- BUT how many
companies have been represented since 1950?

Find a list here
http://www.djindexes.com/mdsidx/down..._Hist_Comp.pdf
Some of the companies no longer exist, but were the strong companies of
their time.

All in all I'd consider them reasonably good investments for the long haul.

See
http://www.finfacts.com/Private/cure...erformance.htm

For the returns from 1939 to 2004


The Social Security Act was signed by FDR on 8/14/35. Taxes were
collected for the first time in January 1937 and the first one-time,
lump-sum payments were made that same month. Regular ongoing monthly
benefits started in January 1940.

You just made the point that the Dow was *not* a good investment. Now you're
saying it was. Something in all this doesn't track for me.


John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."