"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Bert Robbins wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

Bert Robbins wrote:

"Don White" wrote in message
...


"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...


Don, I see that you still can't think for yourself.


Maybe I'd be a good candidate for your army. Would you vouch for me?


No, the US model is to encourage and develop leadership at all levels of
the military. It is one of the principles that makes the US military
second to none in the world.


Really? The U.S. military has not "won" a shooting war against a
signifant enemy since WW II. It fought to a draw in Korea, and got its
ass kicked in Vietnam. It has been victorious fighting third, fourth, and
fifth rate powers like Panama, Iraq, and, of course, Grenada.


The military is civillian controlled.

Nobody won Korea it ain't over yet, there is a cease fire and that cease
fire is going on 50+ years.

Vietnam was run by Johnson during his Tuesday lunches where he and his
lunch guest decided military objectives and truly ****ed things up. The
US lost the will to kill the enemy and we pulled out leaving the South
Vietnamese to fend for themselves.




Richard Nixon racked things up tremendously in Vietnam, including
unrestricted bombing and unparalleled offensive actions. We still lost.

Nixon had to clean up Johnson's mess. Why didn't Johnson run for a second
term? Because, he screwed up Vietnam so badly that he even saw through his
arrogance and knew he was un-reelectable.

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 12:38:31 GMT, "Jim," wrote:

John H wrote:

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 02:45:38 GMT, "Jim," wrote:


John H wrote:

On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 23:20:30 GMT, "Jim," wrote:



John H wrote:


On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 22:22:54 GMT, "Jim," wrote:




John H wrote:



On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 21:06:20 GMT, "Jim," wrote:






He recorded all the payroll taxes he paid into the system (including the
matching amount from his employer), tracked down the return the Social
Security Trust Fund earned for each of the 45 years, and then compared
the result with what he would have gotten had he been able to invest the
same amount of payroll tax money over the same period in the Dow Jones
Industrial Average (including dividends).


Which explains why one should never put all their investment eggs in one basket.
Even the Thrift Savings Plan allows diversification.

We can all find examples which would give a return less than the social security
return.


John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

The Dow is composed of 10 companies supposedly representing a cross
section of American industry (loosely defined of late) and is updated
periodically -- so go back to 1950 and see just how many companies he
invested in. I believe the Dow is a good measure of the economy, and
lists the type of large cap conservative company one should invest in
for their retirement.


Go here and read up:

http://www.djindexes.com/mdsidx/inde... &sitemapid=20

I'm wondering what happened to the other twenty companies that made up the Dow
Jones Industrial Average up to about 10 minutes ago.

Your investment beliefs may not be all that wise.


John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

Yes I mistyped -- Dow 30 (in the beginning it was 12)-- BUT how many
companies have been represented since 1950?

Find a list here
http://www.djindexes.com/mdsidx/down..._Hist_Comp.pdf
Some of the companies no longer exist, but were the strong companies of
their time.

All in all I'd consider them reasonably good investments for the long haul.

See
http://www.finfacts.com/Private/cure...erformance.htm

For the returns from 1939 to 2004


The Social Security Act was signed by FDR on 8/14/35. Taxes were
collected for the first time in January 1937 and the first one-time,
lump-sum payments were made that same month. Regular ongoing monthly
benefits started in January 1940.


You just made the point that the Dow was *not* a good investment. Now you're
saying it was. Something in all this doesn't track for me.


John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

As the article stated it depends on timing. Sometimes you win;
sometimes you lose. Think you can predict where the market will be
30-40 years from now? The SS "trust" fund is backed by by bonds insured
by the "full faith and credit of the United States" (not sure just how
much that's worth these days.)


If I had the choice of where to put my SS money, bonds would be a place I'd
consider. Here are the choices currently available to those entitled to use the
Thrift Savings Plan:

TSP Fund Information Sheets

Each TSP participant has a choice of investing in five investment funds. They
are the G Fund, F Fund, C Fund, S Fund, and I Fund. Review the details of each
fund to fully understand its potential risks and benefits.

G Fund Government Securities Investment Fund

F Fund Fixed Income Index Investment Fund

C Fund Common Stock Index Investment Fund

S Fund Small Capitalization Stock Index Investment Fund. Click here to learn
more about the change to the index that the S Fund tracks.

I Fund International Stock Index Investment Fund. Click here to view the
reasons why the change in the I Fund share price does not always correspond to
the change in the EAFE Index which it tracks.

Here's the site: http://www.tsp.gov/rates/fundsheets.html

Click on the "G Fund" to get information on the government securities fund and
see how it has performed.

We keep the investment spread throughout the funds, changing the spread every
now and then.

John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."
Since the "G" fund is government securities, the question arises "Why
doesn't the SS administration invest in it?" I believe the latest bonds
in the SS trust fund are earning about 3%

They're already investing in Treasury Bonds. I would guess there's a law
somewhere that prescribes how they can invest.

My point is that if I were able to invest my FICA, I could be just as
conservative as the SS administration has been, and therefore just as risk free.

Other than the cost to initiate personal investment accounts, I simply cannot
understand the liberal position on this issue, except that it's anti-Bush, or
course.

Hell, half these folks were in favor of personal accounts a few years back.


John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 12:40:18 GMT, "Jim," wrote:

John H wrote:

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 03:46:11 GMT, "Jim," wrote:


NOYB wrote:


"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...


Bert Robbins wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...



Don White wrote:



"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...




Don, I see that you still can't think for yourself.



Maybe I'd be a good candidate for your army. Would you vouch for me?



Bert is again making nasty comments about fellow posters?


What's your point, asshole!

Some people cannot behave?

Some of us aren't puppets like you are a puppet.


...with Gepetto as the craftsman who carved him from wood.






Less than a week! --- what will it take, or is this group beyond redemption?


Implying that Harry is made of wood is not name-calling. It may even be a
compliment.


John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

Perhaps All YOUR decisions are the result of binary thinking, But I know
an insult when I see one.

I said, "...may..."!

All decisions *are* the result of binary thinking, not just mine.
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Jim," wrote in message
...
Calif Bill wrote:
"Jim," wrote in message
...

John H wrote:

On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 21:06:20 GMT, "Jim," wrote:




He recorded all the payroll taxes he paid into the system (including
the
matching amount from his employer), tracked down the return the
Social
Security Trust Fund earned for each of the 45 years, and then
compared
the result with what he would have gotten had he been able to invest
the
same amount of payroll tax money over the same period in the Dow
Jones
Industrial Average (including dividends).


Which explains why one should never put all their investment eggs in
one

basket.

Even the Thrift Savings Plan allows diversification.

We can all find examples which would give a return less than the
social

security

return.


John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

The Dow is composed of 10 companies supposedly representing a cross
section of American industry (loosely defined of late) and is updated
periodically -- so go back to 1950 and see just how many companies he
invested in. I believe the Dow is a good measure of the economy, and
lists the type of large cap conservative company one should invest in
for their retirement.


there are presently 30 companies that make up the DJ Industrials. They
started in the 1884 with 12.
http://djindexes.com/mdsidx/download..._Hist_Comp.pdf


And I think the total return for the DJ over the last 30 years is 9%.
This
will sure beat the heck out of Treasuries over the same period. You
have to
calculate dividends reinvested as part of the return. Motley Fool
probably
has the returns on their site for total return with reinvested
dividends.


So why doesn't the government take the plunge if it's such a sure thing?
Pay the shortfall in SS; bring down the deficit; and as a shareholder
be able to influence cooperate decisions.

What part of the government do you not understand?

I think all of it.

It is an unnatural act
for them to spend less than they take in, and you know the politicians do
not like to do unnatural acts in public. Other than when Newt Grindrich
controlled Congress for a couple of years, the Congress has spent mucho
excess money every year, for at least 50 years. Worse thing we have is
"Zero Based Budgeting"! A built in inflation factor of a great % and when
they cut spending 2%, they still raised spending 5%+. They should be
required to budget like the rest of us.

And the other factor is that SS is part of the "online" budgeting thanks to
Johnson.........so all the SS 'surplus' is spent just like every other
dollar that the feds receive. The whole problem from the guvmint perspective
WRT privitizing SS is that they have already spent the money.....there is no
"trust fund" just empty IOU's to themselves.

P.Fritz wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 12:38:31 GMT, "Jim," wrote:


John H wrote:


On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 02:45:38 GMT, "Jim," wrote:



John H wrote:


On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 23:20:30 GMT, "Jim," wrote:




John H wrote:



On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 22:22:54 GMT, "Jim," wrote:





John H wrote:




On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 21:06:20 GMT, "Jim,"
wrote:







He recorded all the payroll taxes he paid into the system
(including the
matching amount from his employer), tracked down the return the
Social
Security Trust Fund earned for each of the 45 years, and then
compared
the result with what he would have gotten had he been able to
invest the
same amount of payroll tax money over the same period in the Dow
Jones
Industrial Average (including dividends).


Which explains why one should never put all their investment eggs
in one basket.
Even the Thrift Savings Plan allows diversification.

We can all find examples which would give a return less than the
social security
return.


John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

The Dow is composed of 10 companies supposedly representing a cross
section of American industry (loosely defined of late) and is
updated
periodically -- so go back to 1950 and see just how many companies
he
invested in. I believe the Dow is a good measure of the economy,
and
lists the type of large cap conservative company one should invest
in
for their retirement.


Go here and read up:

http://www.djindexes.com/mdsidx/inde... &sitemapid=20

I'm wondering what happened to the other twenty companies that made
up the Dow
Jones Industrial Average up to about 10 minutes ago.

Your investment beliefs may not be all that wise.


John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

Yes I mistyped -- Dow 30 (in the beginning it was 12)-- BUT how many
companies have been represented since 1950?

Find a list here
http://www.djindexes.com/mdsidx/down..._Hist_Comp.pdf
Some of the companies no longer exist, but were the strong companies
of
their time.

All in all I'd consider them reasonably good investments for the long
haul.

See
http://www.finfacts.com/Private/cure...erformance.htm

For the returns from 1939 to 2004


The Social Security Act was signed by FDR on 8/14/35. Taxes were
collected for the first time in January 1937 and the first one-time,
lump-sum payments were made that same month. Regular ongoing monthly
benefits started in January 1940.


You just made the point that the Dow was *not* a good investment. Now
you're
saying it was. Something in all this doesn't track for me.


John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

As the article stated it depends on timing. Sometimes you win;
sometimes you lose. Think you can predict where the market will be
30-40 years from now? The SS "trust" fund is backed by by bonds insured
by the "full faith and credit of the United States" (not sure just how
much that's worth these days.)


If I had the choice of where to put my SS money, bonds would be a place
I'd
consider. Here are the choices currently available to those entitled to
use the
Thrift Savings Plan:

TSP Fund Information Sheets

Each TSP participant has a choice of investing in five investment funds.
They
are the G Fund, F Fund, C Fund, S Fund, and I Fund. Review the details
of each
fund to fully understand its potential risks and benefits.

G Fund Government Securities Investment Fund

F Fund Fixed Income Index Investment Fund

C Fund Common Stock Index Investment Fund

S Fund Small Capitalization Stock Index Investment Fund. Click here to
learn
more about the change to the index that the S Fund tracks.

I Fund International Stock Index Investment Fund. Click here to view the
reasons why the change in the I Fund share price does not always
correspond to
the change in the EAFE Index which it tracks.

Here's the site: http://www.tsp.gov/rates/fundsheets.html

Click on the "G Fund" to get information on the government securities
fund and
see how it has performed.

We keep the investment spread throughout the funds, changing the spread
every
now and then.

John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

Since the "G" fund is government securities, the question arises "Why
doesn't the SS administration invest in it?" I believe the latest bonds
in the SS trust fund are earning about 3%

They're already investing in Treasury Bonds. I would guess there's a law
somewhere that prescribes how they can invest.


They are borrowing money from themselves, so it is pointless. Second, the
SS payments are made at the whim of congress.....there is no guarantee.



Imagine what will happen to all the bonds held by foreign countries
(such as PRC), should the country default to it's own citizens.

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 13:52:56 +0000, Jim, wrote:

Imagine what will happen to all the bonds held by foreign countries (such
as PRC), should the country default to it's own citizens.

Well, that would be one way to cure the deficit spending in Washington. ;-)

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 09:49:08 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

Isn't it wonderful the peace of mind deficit spending buys?

I'm not comfortable with it. We're giving it away, and, for the life of
me, I don't see the return. It's like a race to the bottom, and we're
winning.

"Jim," wrote in message
...
John H wrote:

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 02:45:38 GMT, "Jim," wrote:


John H wrote:

On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 23:20:30 GMT, "Jim," wrote:



John H wrote:


On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 22:22:54 GMT, "Jim," wrote:




John H wrote:



On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 21:06:20 GMT, "Jim,"
wrote:






He recorded all the payroll taxes he paid into the system
(including the
matching amount from his employer), tracked down the return the
Social
Security Trust Fund earned for each of the 45 years, and then
compared
the result with what he would have gotten had he been able to
invest the
same amount of payroll tax money over the same period in the Dow
Jones
Industrial Average (including dividends).


Which explains why one should never put all their investment eggs
in one basket.
Even the Thrift Savings Plan allows diversification.

We can all find examples which would give a return less than the
social security
return.


John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

The Dow is composed of 10 companies supposedly representing a cross
section of American industry (loosely defined of late) and is
updated
periodically -- so go back to 1950 and see just how many companies
he
invested in. I believe the Dow is a good measure of the economy,
and
lists the type of large cap conservative company one should invest
in
for their retirement.


Go here and read up:


http://www.djindexes.com/mdsidx/inde...nentWeights&rp
tsymbol=DJI&sitemapid=20

I'm wondering what happened to the other twenty companies that made
up the Dow
Jones Industrial Average up to about 10 minutes ago.

Your investment beliefs may not be all that wise.


John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

Yes I mistyped -- Dow 30 (in the beginning it was 12)-- BUT how many
companies have been represented since 1950?

Find a list here
http://www.djindexes.com/mdsidx/down..._Hist_Comp.pdf
Some of the companies no longer exist, but were the strong companies
of
their time.

All in all I'd consider them reasonably good investments for the long
haul.

See
http://www.finfacts.com/Private/cure...erformance.htm

For the returns from 1939 to 2004


The Social Security Act was signed by FDR on 8/14/35. Taxes were
collected for the first time in January 1937 and the first one-time,
lump-sum payments were made that same month. Regular ongoing monthly
benefits started in January 1940.


You just made the point that the Dow was *not* a good investment. Now
you're
saying it was. Something in all this doesn't track for me.


John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

As the article stated it depends on timing. Sometimes you win;
sometimes you lose. Think you can predict where the market will be
30-40 years from now? The SS "trust" fund is backed by by bonds insured
by the "full faith and credit of the United States" (not sure just how
much that's worth these days.)


If I had the choice of where to put my SS money, bonds would be a place
I'd
consider. Here are the choices currently available to those entitled to
use the
Thrift Savings Plan:

TSP Fund Information Sheets

Each TSP participant has a choice of investing in five investment funds.
They
are the G Fund, F Fund, C Fund, S Fund, and I Fund. Review the details
of each
fund to fully understand its potential risks and benefits.

G Fund Government Securities Investment Fund

F Fund Fixed Income Index Investment Fund

C Fund Common Stock Index Investment Fund

S Fund Small Capitalization Stock Index Investment Fund. Click here to
learn
more about the change to the index that the S Fund tracks.

I Fund International Stock Index Investment Fund. Click here to view the
reasons why the change in the I Fund share price does not always
correspond to
the change in the EAFE Index which it tracks.

Here's the site: http://www.tsp.gov/rates/fundsheets.html

Click on the "G Fund" to get information on the government securities
fund and
see how it has performed.

We keep the investment spread throughout the funds, changing the spread
every
now and then.

John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."
Since the "G" fund is government securities, the question arises "Why
doesn't the SS administration invest in it?" I believe the latest bonds
in the SS trust fund are earning about 3%

What "trust fund"?

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Jim," wrote in message
...
John H wrote:

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 02:45:38 GMT, "Jim," wrote:


John H wrote:

On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 23:20:30 GMT, "Jim," wrote:



John H wrote:


On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 22:22:54 GMT, "Jim,"
wrote:




John H wrote:



On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 21:06:20 GMT, "Jim,"
wrote:






He recorded all the payroll taxes he paid into the system
(including the
matching amount from his employer), tracked down the return the
Social
Security Trust Fund earned for each of the 45 years, and then
compared
the result with what he would have gotten had he been able to
invest the
same amount of payroll tax money over the same period in the Dow
Jones
Industrial Average (including dividends).


Which explains why one should never put all their investment eggs
in one basket.
Even the Thrift Savings Plan allows diversification.

We can all find examples which would give a return less than the
social security
return.


John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

The Dow is composed of 10 companies supposedly representing a cross
section of American industry (loosely defined of late) and is
updated
periodically -- so go back to 1950 and see just how many companies
he
invested in. I believe the Dow is a good measure of the economy,
and
lists the type of large cap conservative company one should invest
in
for their retirement.


Go here and read up:


http://www.djindexes.com/mdsidx/inde...nentWeights&rp
tsymbol=DJI&sitemapid=20

I'm wondering what happened to the other twenty companies that made
up the Dow
Jones Industrial Average up to about 10 minutes ago.

Your investment beliefs may not be all that wise.


John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

Yes I mistyped -- Dow 30 (in the beginning it was 12)-- BUT how many
companies have been represented since 1950?

Find a list here
http://www.djindexes.com/mdsidx/down..._Hist_Comp.pdf
Some of the companies no longer exist, but were the strong companies
of
their time.

All in all I'd consider them reasonably good investments for the long
haul.

See
http://www.finfacts.com/Private/cure...erformance.htm

For the returns from 1939 to 2004


The Social Security Act was signed by FDR on 8/14/35. Taxes were
collected for the first time in January 1937 and the first one-time,
lump-sum payments were made that same month. Regular ongoing monthly
benefits started in January 1940.


You just made the point that the Dow was *not* a good investment. Now
you're
saying it was. Something in all this doesn't track for me.


John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

As the article stated it depends on timing. Sometimes you win;
sometimes you lose. Think you can predict where the market will be
30-40 years from now? The SS "trust" fund is backed by by bonds
insured
by the "full faith and credit of the United States" (not sure just how
much that's worth these days.)


If I had the choice of where to put my SS money, bonds would be a place
I'd
consider. Here are the choices currently available to those entitled to
use the
Thrift Savings Plan:

TSP Fund Information Sheets

Each TSP participant has a choice of investing in five investment
funds.
They
are the G Fund, F Fund, C Fund, S Fund, and I Fund. Review the details
of each
fund to fully understand its potential risks and benefits.

G Fund Government Securities Investment Fund

F Fund Fixed Income Index Investment Fund

C Fund Common Stock Index Investment Fund

S Fund Small Capitalization Stock Index Investment Fund. Click here to
learn
more about the change to the index that the S Fund tracks.

I Fund International Stock Index Investment Fund. Click here to view
the
reasons why the change in the I Fund share price does not always
correspond to
the change in the EAFE Index which it tracks.

Here's the site: http://www.tsp.gov/rates/fundsheets.html

Click on the "G Fund" to get information on the government securities
fund and
see how it has performed.

We keep the investment spread throughout the funds, changing the spread
every
now and then.

John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."
Since the "G" fund is government securities, the question arises "Why
doesn't the SS administration invest in it?" I believe the latest bonds
in the SS trust fund are earning about 3%

What "trust fund"?

The liebrals are still in denial. There is no trust fund...........the
guvmint has borrowed the money from itself......i.e. spent it.......

It would be the equivalent of you going to the banking and 'borrowing' the
money from your savings acoount, and spending it. The only way to replace
it is to earn addition to replace it (in the guvmint's case...higher taxes)
or reduce your current spending to repay the "loan" (and when have we ever
seen the guvmint reduce spending)

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Bert Robbins wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

NOYB wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...


Bert Robbins wrote:


"Don White" wrote in message
...



"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...



Don, I see that you still can't think for yourself.


Maybe I'd be a good candidate for your army. Would you vouch for me?


No, the US model is to encourage and develop leadership at all levels
of the military. It is one of the principles that makes the US
military second to none in the world.


Really? The U.S. military has not "won" a shooting war against a
signifant enemy since WW II.


Thanks to the pussification of our military. I suspect that the "rules
of engagement" were quite a bit different when Patton was sweeping
through Germany than when our troops were operating in Vietnam (even
*if* a certain US Senator/Former patrol boat captain *did* shoot wounded
unarmed Vietnamese).




Our loss in Vietnam had to do with the fact that we were facing a highly
motivated, dogged, group of people willing to fight to the death in
massive numbers to get us the hell out of their country. We lost, they
won. Period.


If we had given the military the objective of winning the war and had
Johnson stay out of the hour to hour war fighting decisions then the war
would have been won. Tet in '68 was a bad time for the VC and NVA and we
should have pursued the VC and NVA and killed and the war would have been
over by 1970.

Well, Bert, I disagree. Oh. I was there. You were not.

You weren't there, you can say it all you want but that won't make it true!