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OT - Too many Off Topic posts...
Gentlemen,
If you wish to debate endlessly, could you find a more appropriate newsgroup? If your conversation consisted of 20 posts, it would be within reason for an OT series, but these have gone on for more than 1000. Find yourselves a better home. Please. |
"Bob P" wrote in message ... Gentlemen, If you wish to debate endlessly, could you find a more appropriate newsgroup? If your conversation consisted of 20 posts, it would be within reason for an OT series, but these have gone on for more than 1000. Find yourselves a better home. Please. =============== It's just hard not to disuss other things when the ice hasn't gone out yet and you can get your paddle wet. Talking about paddling sometimes gets you down when you can't even get your boat off the rack. Too anxious to get out, but can't find the open water, so the "other" disussions are a diversion. You could just laugh at us though, when we take ourselves too seriously... |
Gentlemen,
If you wish to debate endlessly, could you find a more appropriate newsgroup? If your conversation consisted of 20 posts, it would be within reason for an OT series, but these have gone on for more than 1000. Find yourselves a better home. Please. I'm not sure I agree; at least, my news reader shows almost all on-topic subjects, with a sprinkling of off-topic ones (like the Iraq elections one). And my solution is simple... I just don't read that particular thread anymore. |
It's the same in all news groups I've visited. I read what I wish to read
and ignore the rest. Very simple "Bob P" wrote in message ... Gentlemen, If you wish to debate endlessly, could you find a more appropriate newsgroup? If your conversation consisted of 20 posts, it would be within reason for an OT series, but these have gone on for more than 1000. Find yourselves a better home. Please. |
"Grip" wrote in :
It's the same in all news groups I've visited. I read what I wish to read and ignore the rest. Very simple Sure, it's simple to delete posts that you're not going to read buy why should we? This is a newsgroup about paddling. There are many other newsgroups in which political discussion, and even flaming is on topic. Those that want to read that kind of article can go to those groups. That's the whole point of creating topically based groups. I've been reading this group for about 7 years and this is the worse case of off-topic article posting I've ever seen. I've been participating on usenet for 20 years and the number of off-topic article to on topic articles is just about the highest ratio I've seen as well. Those that continue to post the off topic articles are just flat out rude. "Bob P" wrote in message ... Gentlemen, If you wish to debate endlessly, could you find a more appropriate newsgroup? If your conversation consisted of 20 posts, it would be within reason for an OT series, but these have gone on for more than 1000. Find yourselves a better home. Please. |
John Fereira wrote: "Grip" wrote in : It's the same in all news groups I've visited. I read what I wish to read and ignore the rest. Very simple Sure, it's simple to delete posts that you're not going to read buy why should we? This is a newsgroup about paddling. There are many other newsgroups in which political discussion, and even flaming is on topic. Those that want to read that kind of article can go to those groups. That's the whole point of creating topically based groups. I've been reading this group for about 7 years and this is the worse case of off-topic article posting I've ever seen. I've been participating on usenet for 20 years and the number of off-topic article to on topic articles is just about the highest ratio I've seen as well. Those that continue to post the off topic articles are just flat out rude. "Bob P" wrote in message ... Gentlemen, If you wish to debate endlessly, could you find a more appropriate newsgroup? If your conversation consisted of 20 posts, it would be within reason for an OT series, but these have gone on for more than 1000. Find yourselves a better home. Please. I have been camping for 40 years, and sat around many campfires, where many strange topics have been discussed. Sometimes they even talked about the days fishing or hiking, biking or skiing. If the topic was not of my interest, I could always grab another adult beverage, set back, and contemplate the sparks rising over the campfire. Usually the chatter would lull me into a luxurious state of semi-subconsciousness, which convinced me that a hard day of exercise followed by the campfire, is better than any day at WORK! If the above did not occur, I could always retire to my tent and let the darkness embrace me in slumber. I usually did not last long listening from my tent. If the OT chatter, disturbs your sleep, I apologize! I find this is some of the best part of the day, and talking to fellow paddlers, even OT, is very stimulating. So maybe, next time you should pitch your tent a little further from the campfire IMHO! TnT |
On 5 Mar 2005 16:29:48 -0800, "Tinkerntom" wrote:
I have been camping for 40 years, and sat around many campfires, where many strange topics have been discussed. Sometimes they even talked about the days fishing or hiking, biking or skiing. If the topic was not of my interest, I could always grab another adult beverage, set back, and contemplate the sparks rising over the campfire. Usually the chatter would lull me into a luxurious state of semi-subconsciousness, which convinced me that a hard day of exercise followed by the campfire, is better than any day at WORK! If the above did not occur, I could always retire to my tent and let the darkness embrace me in slumber. I usually did not last long listening from my tent. If the OT chatter, disturbs your sleep, I apologize! I find this is some of the best part of the day, and talking to fellow paddlers, even OT, is very stimulating. So maybe, next time you should pitch your tent a little further from the campfire IMHO! TnT But how does one determine whether the tent should be pitched farther away or that the party around the campfire has just gotten too rowdy? What if they start chanting religious stuff real loud and you can't get to sleep even if you pitch your tent a hundred yards away? Not to disagree with your analogy, just being an ass. Personally, I'd have said that if you don't like what's going on, contribute(help change it) or leave, but don't just whine about it. Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA Illiterate? Write for FREE help |
On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 23:09:08 GMT, John Fereira
wrote: Sure, it's simple to delete posts that you're not going to read buy why should we? You don't need to bother deleting them, just have the willpower not to read them. This is a newsgroup about paddling. There are many other newsgroups in which political discussion, and even flaming is on topic. Those that want to read that kind of article can go to those groups. That all sounds just dandy, but it doesn't work in reality. I tried going from the boating news group to the political group to talk politics, and a boating topic broke out. I left my football group and went the flame group to do some flaming and a football discussion broke out. Even the dang political and flaming groups stray off topic. Personally, I think it's all Bush's fault. That's the whole point of creating topically based groups. Stop blaming others for your own lack of willpower. It fairly easy to skip posts that aren't relevant. I've been reading this group for about 7 years and this is the worse case of off-topic article posting I've ever seen. I've been participating on usenet for 20 years and the number of off-topic article to on topic articles is just about the highest ratio I've seen as well. Get used to it because it's not going to go away. Society changes, even use net society. Those that continue to post the off topic articles are just flat out rude. Off topic is now the norm. You may consider it rude, but it is now the norm. bb |
Galen Hekhuis wrote: On 5 Mar 2005 16:29:48 -0800, "Tinkerntom" wrote: I have been camping for 40 years, and sat around many campfires, where many strange topics have been discussed. Sometimes they even talked about the days fishing or hiking, biking or skiing. If the topic was not of my interest, I could always grab another adult beverage, set back, and contemplate the sparks rising over the campfire. Usually the chatter would lull me into a luxurious state of semi-subconsciousness, which convinced me that a hard day of exercise followed by the campfire, is better than any day at WORK! If the above did not occur, I could always retire to my tent and let the darkness embrace me in slumber. I usually did not last long listening from my tent. If the OT chatter, disturbs your sleep, I apologize! I find this is some of the best part of the day, and talking to fellow paddlers, even OT, is very stimulating. So maybe, next time you should pitch your tent a little further from the campfire IMHO! TnT But how does one determine whether the tent should be pitched farther away or that the party around the campfire has just gotten too rowdy? What if they start chanting religious stuff real loud and you can't get to sleep even if you pitch your tent a hundred yards away? Not to disagree with your analogy, just being an ass. Personally, I'd have said that if you don't like what's going on, contribute(help change it) or leave, but don't just whine about it. Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA Illiterate? Write for FREE help Well if it has just gotten too rowdy, we'll be more than willing to tone it down, If you ask us real nice! Like I have been doing between K&r, and they seem to be listening. A couple of the rest of us have been having a discussion on the side, and I have not heard any yelling or chanting so far! I would point out that the OT posting in this group, and in the two threads have been going on for quite awhile, so the post count has gotten high, but it is mainly restricted to these two threads. I have checked out other groups where every thread goes OT shortly after the original post. I am happy to see that most threads here stay on topic. Even the current thread regarding the accident in Florida, has slipped off the original topic, but is certainly within the normal topics of the group. I have found that paddlers have a perspective of many issues that you do not find in the other groups. It may have to do with setting too close to the water, and having to keep your eyes on the current, the wind, the weather, the shore, the goal, and having all the gear on board, and knowing you will get along ok because you forgot something, and still having a great time getting there. Some have even said that we are all sick when there are so many other ways to get there, and we say paddling is the only way to get there. Now I don't have the foggiest idea why someone may suggest that is sick, I just know I enjoy the campfire. TnT |
Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA Illiterate? Write for FREE help Well if it has just gotten too rowdy, we'll be more than willing to tone it down, If you ask us real nice! Good grief, now I've actually contributed to giving Tinkerntom even more of a god complex! Tinkerntom, ferchrissakes, get over yourself. A nut preaching about god is one thing, a nut who thinks he IS god is much worse! Well now see guys, you have him yellin around your campfire! TnT |
in article , Tinkerntom
at wrote on 3/6/05 3:50 AM: Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA Illiterate? Write for FREE help Well if it has just gotten too rowdy, we'll be more than willing to tone it down, If you ask us real nice! Good grief, now I've actually contributed to giving Tinkerntom even more of a god complex! Tinkerntom, ferchrissakes, get over yourself. A nut preaching about god is one thing, a nut who thinks he IS god is much worse! Well now see guys, you have him yellin around your campfire! TnT Does anyone else picture Tinkerntom smoking a spliff the size of a baeball bat 24/7? |
Bob P wrote:
Gentlemen, If you wish to debate endlessly, could you find a more appropriate newsgroup? If your conversation consisted of 20 posts, it would be within reason for an OT series, but these have gone on for more than 1000. Find yourselves a better home. Please. I've started using the 'Auto-Kill Thread' option on my news reader a lot recently. All this does is stop the particular (off-topic) thread ever appearing again in my news reader window, works a treat! Stops people having to post complaints about long threads as well - hopefully... ;-) ....and less draconian than setting up an intricate Kill File - though I do use one of those as well. It's a simple key-combination on my particular reader / computer. |
If the contributor to this newsgroup stay on topic then how the hell are
we going to find out what they are like? I would hate to invite some of the members of this group on an extreme descent because though they may be the best kayak paddler out there I just could not get along with them because of their known attitude to the local population! Now a less than extreme descent where there are no external stress factors to deal with then I can tolerate having a redneck rafter along to move the beer! (AND before you flame me NOT all rafters are Rednecks) In message , bb writes On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 23:09:08 GMT, John Fereira wrote: Sure, it's simple to delete posts that you're not going to read buy why should we? You don't need to bother deleting them, just have the willpower not to read them. This is a newsgroup about paddling. There are many other newsgroups in which political discussion, and even flaming is on topic. Those that want to read that kind of article can go to those groups. That all sounds just dandy, but it doesn't work in reality. I tried going from the boating news group to the political group to talk politics, and a boating topic broke out. I left my football group and went the flame group to do some flaming and a football discussion broke out. Even the dang political and flaming groups stray off topic. Personally, I think it's all Bush's fault. That's the whole point of creating topically based groups. Stop blaming others for your own lack of willpower. It fairly easy to skip posts that aren't relevant. I've been reading this group for about 7 years and this is the worse case of off-topic article posting I've ever seen. I've been participating on usenet for 20 years and the number of off-topic article to on topic articles is just about the highest ratio I've seen as well. Get used to it because it's not going to go away. Society changes, even use net society. Those that continue to post the off topic articles are just flat out rude. Off topic is now the norm. You may consider it rude, but it is now the norm. bb -- Dave Manby Details of the Coruh river and my book "Many Rivers To Run" at http://www.dmanby.demon.co.uk |
KMAN wrote: in article , Tinkerntom at wrote on 3/6/05 3:50 AM: Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA Illiterate? Write for FREE help Well if it has just gotten too rowdy, we'll be more than willing to tone it down, If you ask us real nice! Good grief, now I've actually contributed to giving Tinkerntom even more of a god complex! Tinkerntom, ferchrissakes, get over yourself. A nut preaching about god is one thing, a nut who thinks he IS god is much worse! Well now see guys, you have him yellin around your campfire! TnT Does anyone else picture Tinkerntom smoking a spliff the size of a baeball bat 24/7? If it helps you relax, there are a few here that could use one! TnT |
Keith wrote: Bob P wrote: Gentlemen, If you wish to debate endlessly, could you find a more appropriate newsgroup? If your conversation consisted of 20 posts, it would be within reason for an OT series, but these have gone on for more than 1000. Find yourselves a better home. Please. I've started using the 'Auto-Kill Thread' option on my news reader a lot recently. All this does is stop the particular (off-topic) thread ever appearing again in my news reader window, works a treat! Stops people having to post complaints about long threads as well - hopefully... ;-) ...and less draconian than setting up an intricate Kill File - though I do use one of those as well. It's a simple key-combination on my particular reader / computer. That is another reason why it is good for the OT stuff to stay on a couple threads, and not matastisize to all! IMO TnT |
bb wrote in
: On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 23:09:08 GMT, John Fereira wrote: Sure, it's simple to delete posts that you're not going to read buy why should we? You don't need to bother deleting them, just have the willpower not to read them. When did I claim that I've been reading them? For about a week on a typical day I would open up my newsreader, select r.b.p. (one of about a dozen groups that I subscribe to) and will see that 50-100 new messages have been posted. From the subject lines I can see a handful of what appear to be paddling related articles so I pick them out and read them. I also see a bunch of threads that are clearly off topic, some with subject lines that are essentially calling one of the participants names. As is the case with most newsreaders, if I don't want to see the same articles the next time I read the group I have to mark the articles as read (even if I don't read them). So even though I'm not actually reading every article posted to the group I have to take action to indicate that I don't want to see them. Furthermore, when 80-90% of the articles posted are off topic, it become more difficult to find articles that *are* paddling related. This is a newsgroup about paddling. There are many other newsgroups in which political discussion, and even flaming is on topic. Those that want to read that kind of article can go to those groups. That all sounds just dandy, but it doesn't work in reality. I tried going from the boating news group to the political group to talk politics, and a boating topic broke out. I left my football group and went the flame group to do some flaming and a football discussion broke out. Even the dang political and flaming groups stray off topic. Personally, I think it's all Bush's fault. I don't expect that every newsgroup is going to remain 100% on topic, but when 80-90% of the group consist of off topic posts, to the point where some of the participants in those threads are essentially just calling each other names and creating new thread solely for that purpose it's getting a bit out of hand. That's the whole point of creating topically based groups. Stop blaming others for your own lack of willpower. It fairly easy to skip posts that aren't relevant. Again, I'm not reading the off topic posts. I still have to read the subject line for the thread to know if they're off topic and then mark them as read. It's much easier to skip posts that are not relevant if they're posted in a group that I haven't subscribed to. I've been reading this group for about 7 years and this is the worse case of off-topic article posting I've ever seen. I've been participating on usenet for 20 years and the number of off-topic article to on topic articles is just about the highest ratio I've seen as well. Get used to it because it's not going to go away. Society changes, even use net society. Those that continue to post the off topic articles are just flat out rude. Off topic is now the norm. You may consider it rude, but it is now the norm. At least in this newsgroup, off topic is not the norm, which is one of the reasons that I have continued to read it for 7 years. |
"Tinkerntom" wrote in news:1110068988.426962.125150
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: John Fereira wrote: "Grip" wrote in : It's the same in all news groups I've visited. I read what I wish to read and ignore the rest. Very simple Sure, it's simple to delete posts that you're not going to read buy why should we? This is a newsgroup about paddling. There are many other newsgroups in which political discussion, and even flaming is on topic. Those that want to read that kind of article can go to those groups. That's the whole point of creating topically based groups. I've been reading this group for about 7 years and this is the worse case of off-topic article posting I've ever seen. I've been participating on usenet for 20 years and the number of off-topic article to on topic articles is just about the highest ratio I've seen as well. Those that continue to post the off topic articles are just flat out rude. "Bob P" wrote in message ... Gentlemen, If you wish to debate endlessly, could you find a more appropriate newsgroup? If your conversation consisted of 20 posts, it would be within reason for an OT series, but these have gone on for more than 1000. Find yourselves a better home. Please. I have been camping for 40 years, and sat around many campfires, where many strange topics have been discussed. Sometimes they even talked about the days fishing or hiking, biking or skiing. If the topic was not of my interest, I could always grab another adult beverage, set back, and contemplate the sparks rising over the campfire. Usually the chatter would lull me into a luxurious state of semi-subconsciousness, which convinced me that a hard day of exercise followed by the campfire, is better than any day at WORK! If the above did not occur, I could always retire to my tent and let the darkness embrace me in slumber. I usually did not last long listening from my tent. If the OT chatter, disturbs your sleep, I apologize! I find this is some of the best part of the day, and talking to fellow paddlers, even OT, is very stimulating. So maybe, next time you should pitch your tent a little further from the campfire IMHO! TnT If that's the analogy you want to use I'll play along. Your analogy doesn't exactly represent what's going on. In this case a group of camper have pitched their tents around a campfire and have settled into a choice spot they like. Then several others decide to pitch their tents in the same spot and proceed to cause a ruckus. When the original campers complain about the ruckus the new campers have the gall to tell the original campers if they don't want to listen that they should move their tents elsewhere. |
"Tinkerntom" wrote in message oups.com... KMAN wrote: in article , Tinkerntom at wrote on 3/6/05 3:50 AM: Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA Illiterate? Write for FREE help Well if it has just gotten too rowdy, we'll be more than willing to tone it down, If you ask us real nice! Good grief, now I've actually contributed to giving Tinkerntom even more of a god complex! Tinkerntom, ferchrissakes, get over yourself. A nut preaching about god is one thing, a nut who thinks he IS god is much worse! Well now see guys, you have him yellin around your campfire! TnT Does anyone else picture Tinkerntom smoking a spliff the size of a baeball bat 24/7? If it helps you relax, there are a few here that could use one! TnT KMAN, I think you missed the part where TnT was assuring rbp that 'he was talking to us and calming us down'. He's quite good at redefining the reality around himself so that he is God. Tom, your analogy about the campfire is nice as far as it goes. But imagine that same campfire with this one irritating someone who insists on controlling the conversations, talking the most loudly and making rules for how others can talk, then smarmingly saying 'gee, I love campfire talking'. --riverman |
Tinkerntom wrote:
KMAN wrote: Does anyone else picture Tinkerntom smoking a spliff the size of a baseball bat 24/7? If it helps you relax, there are a few here that could use one! Let us offer each other some smoke of peace... http://www.user.shentel.net/riburr/p...ing070401.html -- "This president has destroyed the country, the economy, the relationship with the rest of the world. He's a monster in the White House. He should resign." - Hunter S. Thompson, speaking to an antiwar audience in 2003. |
"John Fereira" wrote in message .. . bb wrote in : On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 23:09:08 GMT, John Fereira wrote: Sure, it's simple to delete posts that you're not going to read buy why should we? You don't need to bother deleting them, just have the willpower not to read them. When did I claim that I've been reading them? For about a week on a typical day I would open up my newsreader, select r.b.p. (one of about a dozen groups that I subscribe to) and will see that 50-100 new messages have been posted. From the subject lines I can see a handful of what appear to be paddling related articles so I pick them out and read them. I also see a bunch of threads that are clearly off topic, some with subject lines that are essentially calling one of the participants names. As is the case with most newsreaders, if I don't want to see the same articles the next time I read the group I have to mark the articles as read (even if I don't read them). So even though I'm not actually reading every article posted to the group I have to take action to indicate that I don't want to see them. Furthermore, when 80-90% of the articles posted are off topic, it become more difficult to find articles that *are* paddling related. This is a newsgroup about paddling. There are many other newsgroups in which political discussion, and even flaming is on topic. Those that want to read that kind of article can go to those groups. That all sounds just dandy, but it doesn't work in reality. I tried going from the boating news group to the political group to talk politics, and a boating topic broke out. I left my football group and went the flame group to do some flaming and a football discussion broke out. Even the dang political and flaming groups stray off topic. Personally, I think it's all Bush's fault. I don't expect that every newsgroup is going to remain 100% on topic, but when 80-90% of the group consist of off topic posts, to the point where some of the participants in those threads are essentially just calling each other names and creating new thread solely for that purpose it's getting a bit out of hand. That's the whole point of creating topically based groups. Stop blaming others for your own lack of willpower. It fairly easy to skip posts that aren't relevant. Again, I'm not reading the off topic posts. I still have to read the subject line for the thread to know if they're off topic and then mark them as read. It's much easier to skip posts that are not relevant if they're posted in a group that I haven't subscribed to. I've been reading this group for about 7 years and this is the worse case of off-topic article posting I've ever seen. I've been participating on usenet for 20 years and the number of off-topic article to on topic articles is just about the highest ratio I've seen as well. Get used to it because it's not going to go away. Society changes, even use net society. Those that continue to post the off topic articles are just flat out rude. Off topic is now the norm. You may consider it rude, but it is now the norm. At least in this newsgroup, off topic is not the norm, which is one of the reasons that I have continued to read it for 7 years. Hi John: this is a post i wrote but did not send (RWBNS) in response to an earlier one in this thread from you, but it seems to fit in here, in support of what you are saying. "John Fereira" wrote in message Those that continue to post the off topic articles are just flat out rude. Rudeness is hard to define, and according to some, thats a useless exercise. Although there are not FORMAL usenet rules, the thing I always liked about rbp in the past, the most recent calm period nonwithstanding, is the informal set of rules that had evolved and the cameraderie that evolved. And in that vein, I would define 'rude' as being contrary to that spirit. RBP is not a real-world space, and most folks here have not met IRL, but nontheless the longtimers had some intense shared experiences. The death of Scott, the invasion of Burntballs, the invasion of Sponsonboy.... and throughout it all we still posted friendly posts about river running, adventuring and a lot of folks managed to get together in the real world at times and share a paddle and/or a beer. We maintained our identity, folks had differing roles here and contributed accordingly, and visitors who dropped in either found it homey and welcoming and stayed, or found it too small-towny, too inbred, and left. In a lot of ways, rbp has been like a little-known special river, one that the locals know about, took care of, and although there is no organized effort to keep it secret, we all appreciated that it hadn't been discovered by the world at large. Sure, a lot of rbp-ers went over to Boatertalk and some other forums, but it wasn't the same, I hear. I seriously doubt if the denizens of those groups ever made 'BoaterTalk' t-shirts or stickers like we did here. There was something up close and family about this place, and the inside joke of the 'clique' was just one way of recognizing those who were part of the family and got the joke. A family, I might add, that was completely open to anyone who wanted to join, as long as they wanted to JOIN and not CONQUER, recognized the aura of the place and contributed to it rather than tried to redefine it. However, recently it seems like we've been discovered by some folks who would rather conquer, to redefine according to their own wants, and the effect is not unlike watching a big commercial river running outfit set up shop on that favorite little-known river. They have their lawyers, running legal defense and offense, cutting off protestations and insisting on equal access. They have their belligerant outfitters, used to being able to get their own way and well-able to bulldoze the put-in beach and pour a cement slab, changing the aura of the place forever to their own liking. And they have their dozens of innocent clients, helping to destroy that same private little river by their tacit participation with the outfitter, with no idea of what had been before. They have their experts at all aspects except the most important one; the ability to sit on the sidelines, watch the interactions, and get a feel for the aura before joining in to contribute. Oh, they're not doing anything wrong in the legal sense, but it sure feels wrong watching it all go away. Somehow, I don't think rbp will really recover from this last invasion. There are some players out there with a whole new set of rules...rules that are legal and legitimate, just rude and insensitive to what rbp was when it was a nicer place, and they aren't going to go away, and they don't care. By the time the dust settles, there will be dozens of new posters with legitimate definitions as 'locals', and the changes will be here to stay. Thats how it goes, and we all know that it doesn't always get better. I don't think I'll be posting too many 'back in the day' trip reports, as the handful of people that I had a personal connection to seem to be lost in the mob these days. Hopefully it will change, but I don't see it coming. Its just become too rude. --riverman |
John Fereira wrote: bb wrote in : On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 23:09:08 GMT, John Fereira wrote: Sure, it's simple to delete posts that you're not going to read buy why should we? You don't need to bother deleting them, just have the willpower not to read them. When did I claim that I've been reading them? For about a week on a typical day I would open up my newsreader, select r.b.p. (one of about a dozen groups that I subscribe to) and will see that 50-100 new messages have been posted. From the subject lines I can see a handful of what appear to be paddling related articles so I pick them out and read them. I also see a bunch of threads that are clearly off topic, some with subject lines that are essentially calling one of the participants names. As is the case with most newsreaders, if I don't want to see the same articles the next time I read the group I have to mark the articles as read (even if I don't read them). So even though I'm not actually reading every article posted to the group I have to take action to indicate that I don't want to see them. Furthermore, when 80-90% of the articles posted are off topic, it become more difficult to find articles that *are* paddling related. This is a newsgroup about paddling. There are many other newsgroups in which political discussion, and even flaming is on topic. Those that want to read that kind of article can go to those groups. That all sounds just dandy, but it doesn't work in reality. I tried going from the boating news group to the political group to talk politics, and a boating topic broke out. I left my football group and went the flame group to do some flaming and a football discussion broke out. Even the dang political and flaming groups stray off topic. Personally, I think it's all Bush's fault. I don't expect that every newsgroup is going to remain 100% on topic, but when 80-90% of the group consist of off topic posts, to the point where some of the participants in those threads are essentially just calling each other names and creating new thread solely for that purpose it's getting a bit out of hand. That's the whole point of creating topically based groups. Stop blaming others for your own lack of willpower. It fairly easy to skip posts that aren't relevant. Again, I'm not reading the off topic posts. I still have to read the subject line for the thread to know if they're off topic and then mark them as read. It's much easier to skip posts that are not relevant if they're posted in a group that I haven't subscribed to. I've been reading this group for about 7 years and this is the worse case of off-topic article posting I've ever seen. I've been participating on usenet for 20 years and the number of off-topic article to on topic articles is just about the highest ratio I've seen as well. Get used to it because it's not going to go away. Society changes, even use net society. Those that continue to post the off topic articles are just flat out rude. Off topic is now the norm. You may consider it rude, but it is now the norm. At least in this newsgroup, off topic is not the norm, which is one of the reasons that I have continued to read it for 7 years. I agree with you whole heartedly, calling people names is totally rude, and they are wasting our time if we have to sort through all the crap, to find a gold nugget that is worth holding on to. Flaming and insulting is also rude, and I realize that there were certain ones on another thread, that is all they seem to be interested in doing. Even for those of us having a nice OT discussion it has been very frustrating. I have even spent a lot of time attempting to settle their meaningless dispute, which recently has settled down some. Sadly, I suspect that they both have thoughts that would be profitable to share in a civil fashion. It reminds me of some kids standing 5 feet apart, yelling invectives at each other. For us watching, it is amusing in a way at first, for awhile, but then it becomes annoying and rude. It is also rude, and certainly poor usenet practice, to diagnose certain people, in such a way as to put them down, not for what they have to say, by addressing what they say, but by a personal assault on their character or personality. This being a discussion group, address the issue being discussed. If you don't like the discussion, or don't agree with the way the discussion is going, you are free to ignore, but noone is making you listen. riverman, in his current post to you says some things have changed, and I am sure he is right. That is the nature of life, and we all love to talk about the good old days. I am approaching 60, and I have seen a few gallons of water go under the bridge, and it is definitely different than it was so long ago. My favorite camping spot was overrun by 4x4 with little plastic boats on top, and that was 20 years ago, back in the good old days. I hate to venture the thought of how it would be today. I use to set at night around the campfire, and listen to coyote sing there song. Last time I was at the old campsite, all I could hear were some of those rowdy paddlers I think trying to sing, while at the same time yelling and screaming, and throwing beer cans and bottles at each other. Now that was really rude and annoying. The next day they were all gone on to the next river to conquer, I suppose, and I went over and picked up several bags full of cans and beer bottles. It was very sad! Use to be you could pitch your tent where ever, but now with the influx of overnighter, who don't seem to think there are any civil rules that apply to them, and crap where ever, you don't want to plan on pitching your tent just where ever. And when you get your tent pitched, you sure want to watch where you step. None of those solo moonlit walks among the purple sage to smell the night air. If you are not careful, when you get back to camp, you will smell like a crapper. Now the only advantage of the RV crowd with their generators and portable TVs is that when they bulldosed and laid a slab of concrete so they could just "drive on, and be level", is that most of them are self contained. Also representing maybe a little higher life form than those rowdy river folk, they don't seem to throw so many beer cans and bottles around either. Alas though, I can not hear the coyote singing now over their generator. Now despite his protest in the accompaning post, riverman seems willing to start OT subjects, call folks name, diagnose folks personality, and make generally inflamatory comments about what they have to say. And He invites his friends to make similar comments where upon he comliments them for being cute in the use of the English language, or even better in the "secret code and mysterious Laguage" of a couple little kids in their treehouse. And I realize that being a fisherman at heart myself, and he being a published fisherman, trolling is almost a natural reflex, which I have seen him practice on a few ocassions. Now I could have posted this directly to his post, and the exercise of the usenet code would have been happier, however, I have been instructed recently that it is debatable that posting on the usenet is never trully directed. So what I say is not directed personally to the riverman, but to all in general. If I had bought that old campsite, then it would have been mine to run the way I wanted it to be. However, being a poor old codger I never had the foresight to save the money to buy it, or to even think that I needed to buy it. I would suggest that if you want a good old moderated website where everything is always the way it always was, and no bad things happen, and no one talks about taboo subjects, that you set up your own private little website where all you good old boys can meet and talk about the good old days. I could even suggest that riverman be the moderator, Oci-One knows computers and could do the design, and Wilko already has a lot of very good articles to be contributed, along with riverman. I am sure that there are many others that would be more than willing to join, and you could write all the love letters to each other, and arrange clandestine meetings down on the river to paddle or fish. Which would be fine with me, and maybe others. You could even make some t-shirts with your website address on, so all the wantabees could envy you your t-shirt, and your private membership, which you of course would not want to open to just anyone, since that would eventually lead to the ruin of how it used to be! Yeah things have changed, get use to it, some of you may have been in that crowd of rowdys messing up my old campsite back in the good old days. The biggest change may be I have my own 4x4, plastic boat, and RV with self contained crapper. So, can anyone point me to the boatramp? TnT |
riverman wrote: "Tinkerntom" wrote in message oups.com... KMAN wrote: in article , Tinkerntom at wrote on 3/6/05 3:50 AM: Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA Illiterate? Write for FREE help Well if it has just gotten too rowdy, we'll be more than willing to tone it down, If you ask us real nice! Good grief, now I've actually contributed to giving Tinkerntom even more of a god complex! Tinkerntom, ferchrissakes, get over yourself. A nut preaching about god is one thing, a nut who thinks he IS god is much worse! Well now see guys, you have him yellin around your campfire! TnT Does anyone else picture Tinkerntom smoking a spliff the size of a baeball bat 24/7? If it helps you relax, there are a few here that could use one! TnT KMAN, I think you missed the part where TnT was assuring rbp that 'he was talking to us and calming us down'. He's quite good at redefining the reality around himself so that he is God. Tom, your analogy about the campfire is nice as far as it goes. But imagine that same campfire with this one irritating someone who insists on controlling the conversations, talking the most loudly and making rules for how others can talk, then smarmingly saying 'gee, I love campfire talking'. --riverman Yeah, I notice that when you walk up to the campfire, everyone else is expected to be quiet while you make your proclamation, and even now making the rules. It does put the damper on the converstion between us common folk. TnT |
Frederick Burroughs wrote: Tinkerntom wrote: KMAN wrote: Does anyone else picture Tinkerntom smoking a spliff the size of a baseball bat 24/7? If it helps you relax, there are a few here that could use one! Let us offer each other some smoke of peace... http://www.user.shentel.net/riburr/p...ing070401.html -- "This president has destroyed the country, the economy, the relationship with the rest of the world. He's a monster in the White House. He should resign." - Hunter S. Thompson, speaking to an antiwar audience in 2003. That may be part of the difficulty, I don't smoke. Any other suggestions? TnT |
Melissa wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160 Hi Tinkerntom, On 6 Mar 2005 13:35:28 -0800, you wrote: Let us offer each other some smoke of peace... http://www.user.shentel.net/riburr/p...ing070401.html That may be part of the difficulty, I don't smoke. Any other suggestions? TnT You could cook it into some brownies. :-) - -- Melissa PGP Public Keys: http://www.willkayakforfood.tk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQCVAwUBQit/rjEYqNTZBqoEAQO40AQAqqp8IhUCK1d1oTuVFlCEtXDExjOOzS HO 9C4RL/4j+X2C8mKw88cQOEL84ktSXmEmC6XjzYHxRRWx1hoycnDs44h3 FbftS3QP pDUVDWIiyB3NbbYeZZJDb0OAqHOxmDwhMvJkoIzI6hAflwk5y9 kOqSSSRnn0zX1g /OgM6DmWsvI= =vpVv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Yeah, but I like brownies too much! And I, always trying to be polite, would not want anyone to think that I am rude by eating all of them. There might not be any left for the rest of you.:-_) Tnt with a mouthful of brownies! |
Tinkerntom wrote:
Frederick Burroughs wrote: Tinkerntom wrote: KMAN wrote: Does anyone else picture Tinkerntom smoking a spliff the size of a baseball bat 24/7? If it helps you relax, there are a few here that could use one! Let us offer each other some smoke of peace... http://www.user.shentel.net/riburr/p...ing070401.html That may be part of the difficulty, I don't smoke. Any other suggestions? TnT Here, just breath normally. There's plenty of smoke to go around. Don't try to hold your breath. The contact buzz will still get you. See: http://www.user.shentel.net/riburr/p...ng070401b.html -- "This president has destroyed the country, the economy, the relationship with the rest of the world. He's a monster in the White House. He should resign." - Hunter S. Thompson, speaking to an antiwar audience in 2003. |
John Fereira wrote: "Tinkerntom" wrote in news:1110068988.426962.125150 @g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: John Fereira wrote: "Grip" wrote in : It's the same in all news groups I've visited. I read what I wish to read and ignore the rest. Very simple Sure, it's simple to delete posts that you're not going to read buy why should we? This is a newsgroup about paddling. There are many other newsgroups in which political discussion, and even flaming is on topic. Those that want to read that kind of article can go to those groups. That's the whole point of creating topically based groups. I've been reading this group for about 7 years and this is the worse case of off-topic article posting I've ever seen. I've been participating on usenet for 20 years and the number of off-topic article to on topic articles is just about the highest ratio I've seen as well. Those that continue to post the off topic articles are just flat out rude. "Bob P" wrote in message ... Gentlemen, If you wish to debate endlessly, could you find a more appropriate newsgroup? If your conversation consisted of 20 posts, it would be within reason for an OT series, but these have gone on for more than 1000. Find yourselves a better home. Please. I have been camping for 40 years, and sat around many campfires, where many strange topics have been discussed. Sometimes they even talked about the days fishing or hiking, biking or skiing. If the topic was not of my interest, I could always grab another adult beverage, set back, and contemplate the sparks rising over the campfire. Usually the chatter would lull me into a luxurious state of semi-subconsciousness, which convinced me that a hard day of exercise followed by the campfire, is better than any day at WORK! If the above did not occur, I could always retire to my tent and let the darkness embrace me in slumber. I usually did not last long listening from my tent. If the OT chatter, disturbs your sleep, I apologize! I find this is some of the best part of the day, and talking to fellow paddlers, even OT, is very stimulating. So maybe, next time you should pitch your tent a little further from the campfire IMHO! TnT If that's the analogy you want to use I'll play along. Your analogy doesn't exactly represent what's going on. In this case a group of camper have pitched their tents around a campfire and have settled into a choice spot they like. Then several others decide to pitch their tents in the same spot and proceed to cause a ruckus. When the original campers complain about the ruckus the new campers have the gall to tell the original campers if they don't want to listen that they should move their tents elsewhere. Your analysis is faulted in that though you have been camping here and setting up your tent on certain choice sites over the last few years, you do not own the site. It is a general public camping area. so if you pitch your tent, and someone new comes along, and pitches their tent next to yours, and you find you don't like your neighbors! Your site is no longer choice, and you are free to move. You are not free to take out your shotgun and explain that the others should leave. Now in the analogy, there is a campfire, and there most likely are many different campfires going in the general area that is used for camping. If you don't like the conversation, at a particular fire ring, you are free to browse around until you find one that is to your liking. If the converstion at the ring near your tent, is not to your liking, again your site is no longer your choice site, you are free to move. And someone else may find it very choice. It is not the site that has changed, just your choice! Now if someone is actually causing a ruckus, you can definitely go and talk to them and try to get them to settle down. But you are not the Sherrif! Most folks though, if approached in a civil fashion, non-threatening, and respectfully, are more than willing to listen and try to modify their behavior. We are all here to have a good time, so if you are really troubled, feel free to talk to the offending parties. It certainly does not help to make a big scene yourself, adding to the ruckus, and further polarizing the various parties. Especially calling them names, or sounding like you are whining may do nothing more than entrench them in their behavior. Infact, you might find you would accomplish more by inviting them over to your favorite campfire and offering them an adult beverage, and including them instead of just hanging with all your good old buddies, and looking at them as the "invaders". That way they get vested as well in the general peace and order of the camp, and everyone is happier. Of course you might find that it is not good to start to many off topic discussions, because you don't know how this will inspire and stimulate their reaction. Though you may have been able to discuss these topics with your good old buddies, having know them for a long time, times are changing. However if it is just what they are saying that bothers your tender sensitivities, then just ignore them, and if that is not possible, get out your earplugs. Being thinskinned about what they are saying, also proves nothing, except that you are thinskinned. If you have infact been around for awhile, you probably already know all this stuff, so I am sure I am not saying anything profound to you. Though I realize that when it is your choice site that is being disturbed, it is disturbing! TnT |
Frederick Burroughs wrote: Tinkerntom wrote: Frederick Burroughs wrote: Tinkerntom wrote: KMAN wrote: Does anyone else picture Tinkerntom smoking a spliff the size of a baseball bat 24/7? If it helps you relax, there are a few here that could use one! Let us offer each other some smoke of peace... http://www.user.shentel.net/riburr/p...ing070401.html That may be part of the difficulty, I don't smoke. Any other suggestions? TnT Here, just breath normally. There's plenty of smoke to go around. Don't try to hold your breath. The contact buzz will still get you. See: http://www.user.shentel.net/riburr/p...ng070401b.html -- "This president has destroyed the country, the economy, the relationship with the rest of the world. He's a monster in the White House. He should resign." - Hunter S. Thompson, speaking to an antiwar audience in 2003. But I don't like any smoke! In fact, I don't like anything, that dulls me to the wonderful feeling of being alive. If you have never died, you may not be familiar with the extreme delight of being alive! Apparently Thompson did not share that delight! Maybe to much smoke? TnT |
On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 12:41:20 GMT, John Fereira
wrote: At least in this newsgroup, off topic is not the norm, which is one of the reasons that I have continued to read it for 7 years. Just jerkin' yer chain a little dude. Although I seem to have a higher tolerance than you for off topic posting, a lot, most, of what you say I agree with. bb |
in article , riverman at
wrote on 3/6/05 8:00 AM: "Tinkerntom" wrote in message oups.com... KMAN wrote: in article , Tinkerntom at wrote on 3/6/05 3:50 AM: Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA Illiterate? Write for FREE help Well if it has just gotten too rowdy, we'll be more than willing to tone it down, If you ask us real nice! Good grief, now I've actually contributed to giving Tinkerntom even more of a god complex! Tinkerntom, ferchrissakes, get over yourself. A nut preaching about god is one thing, a nut who thinks he IS god is much worse! Well now see guys, you have him yellin around your campfire! TnT Does anyone else picture Tinkerntom smoking a spliff the size of a baeball bat 24/7? If it helps you relax, there are a few here that could use one! TnT KMAN, I think you missed the part where TnT was assuring rbp that 'he was talking to us and calming us down'. He's quite good at redefining the reality around himself so that he is God. Yes, I recently made note of that myself. Tom, your analogy about the campfire is nice as far as it goes. But imagine that same campfire with this one irritating someone who insists on controlling the conversations, talking the most loudly and making rules for how others can talk, then smarmingly saying 'gee, I love campfire talking'. --riverman |
Tinkerntom wrote:
Frederick Burroughs wrote: Here, just breath normally. There's plenty of smoke to go around. Don't try to hold your breath. The contact buzz will still get you. See: http://www.user.shentel.net/riburr/p...ng070401b.html But I don't like any smoke! In fact, I don't like anything, that dulls me to the wonderful feeling of being alive. If you have never died, you may not be familiar with the extreme delight of being alive! Apparently Thompson did not share that delight! Maybe to much smoke? TnT HST(hompson), by his own count, was documented to have died sixteen times by 2003. Unfortunately he wasn't able to perform the final tally himself. (Guess he was off by at least one, by necessity.) Though, it is said he made adequate arrangements in case of an unredeemable and irreversable demise. It can't be argued HST didn't live a full life, or that his life was devoid of any delight. Personally, my life has been perilously close to the edge a few times. The fact that I'm still here gives me pause. Each incident is like a skin has been shed from a progressing metamorphosis. Most people I know have stood at death's door once or twice, but were denied admittance by luck or attentive guardian angel. Absent any inhalation or ingestion of psychotropic substances, paddling offers a number of opportunities for a natural high. There's the endorphin rush from strenuous exercise. We've probably all experienced frequent jolts from adrenaline rushes, which are no stranger to the paddle sports. Sunshine has a direct affect on melatonin and vitamin D levels in the body, resulting subtle changes in consciousness. The constant bobbing and tipping of a canoe or kayak is stimulating to the inner ear and our sense of balance. Flowing water generates an electric current. What are the effects of this current on the nervous system? On fla****er and slow rivers the absence of sound is a form of sensory deprivation, relative to the noise of normal modern developed environments. Sensory deprivation can cause profound changes in consciousness. The sparkling of sunshine across wavelets and ripples can have a stroboscopic effect. Strobe lights are well known and used to induce changes in consciousness. So, you're right. With all the psychedelic pandemonium going on in your canoe or kayak, why on earth would you need a joint? -- "This president has destroyed the country, the economy, the relationship with the rest of the world. He's a monster in the White House. He should resign." - Hunter S. Thompson, speaking to an antiwar audience in 2003. |
Dave Manby wrote:
If the contributor to this newsgroup stay on topic then how the hell are we going to find out what they are like? I would hate to invite some of the members of this group on an extreme descent because though they may be the best kayak paddler out there I just could not get along with them because of their known attitude to the local population! Now a less than extreme descent where there are no external stress factors to deal with then I can tolerate having a redneck rafter along to move the beer! (AND before you flame me NOT all rafters are Rednecks) Thanks for that last one Dave! I am a rafter, and an IK'er on the little stuff, but definately not a Redneck. I absolutely agree on the points about compatibility. I would rate "group dynamics" as probably one of the most important factors. It is hard enough to do the right thing under difficult conditions without adding more ingredients into the fire. The reality TV shows are a good example of that. I am a believer that societies advance through co-operation rather than individual effort. And while I value my independence, the interests of the group typically supercedes my own concerns. This is probably at the heart of the great divide in the US. From my point of view, that separation is based one of two world views: 1) What is good for me. 2) What is best for the common good. Taxes, salvation, recreation, pre-emtpive war - you name it. Railtramp Blakley LaCroix Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA RBP Clique member #86. The best adventure is yet to come ... |
Frederick Burroughs wrote: Tinkerntom wrote: Frederick Burroughs wrote: Here, just breath normally. There's plenty of smoke to go around. Don't try to hold your breath. The contact buzz will still get you. See: http://www.user.shentel.net/riburr/p...ng070401b.html But I don't like any smoke! In fact, I don't like anything, that dulls me to the wonderful feeling of being alive. If you have never died, you may not be familiar with the extreme delight of being alive! Apparently Thompson did not share that delight! Maybe to much smoke? TnT HST(hompson), by his own count, was documented to have died sixteen times by 2003. Unfortunately he wasn't able to perform the final tally himself. (Guess he was off by at least one, by necessity.) Though, it is said he made adequate arrangements in case of an unredeemable and irreversable demise. It can't be argued HST didn't live a full life, or that his life was devoid of any delight. Personally, my life has been perilously close to the edge a few times. The fact that I'm still here gives me pause. Each incident is like a skin has been shed from a progressing metamorphosis. Most people I know have stood at death's door once or twice, but were denied admittance by luck or attentive guardian angel. Absent any inhalation or ingestion of psychotropic substances, paddling offers a number of opportunities for a natural high. There's the endorphin rush from strenuous exercise. We've probably all experienced frequent jolts from adrenaline rushes, which are no stranger to the paddle sports. Sunshine has a direct affect on melatonin and vitamin D levels in the body, resulting subtle changes in consciousness. The constant bobbing and tipping of a canoe or kayak is stimulating to the inner ear and our sense of balance. Flowing water generates an electric current. What are the effects of this current on the nervous system? On fla****er and slow rivers the absence of sound is a form of sensory deprivation, relative to the noise of normal modern developed environments. Sensory deprivation can cause profound changes in consciousness. The sparkling of sunshine across wavelets and ripples can have a stroboscopic effect. Strobe lights are well known and used to induce changes in consciousness. So, you're right. With all the psychedelic pandemonium going on in your canoe or kayak, why on earth would you need a joint? -- "This president has destroyed the country, the economy, the relationship with the rest of the world. He's a monster in the White House. He should resign." - Hunter S. Thompson, speaking to an antiwar audience in 2003. Probably explains why I like to paddle, bike and hike, ski and skate, and even set in front of my monitor posting to usenet. Its the electric current flowing out from the monitor, combine that with all the warm fuzzies that I get reading on the RBP, I can't help myself. Though the brownies would help. TnT |
"Frederick Burroughs" wrote in message ... Personally, my life has been perilously close to the edge a few times. The fact that I'm still here gives me pause. Each incident is like a skin has been shed from a progressing metamorphosis. Most people I know have stood at death's door once or twice, but were denied admittance by luck or attentive guardian angel. Great idea for a thread! I've been tossing around the idea of a collection of short vignettes of every time I've almost died...either from being hammered and not quite getting across the threshold, or taking a random left turn when later I discover that a right turn would have been fatal. Why not start a new thread, tell us your 'times I almost died' tale, and lets hear some skin crawlers from folks. --riverman You go first, I'll be right on your tail :-) |
"riverman" wrote in message ... Great idea for a thread! I've been tossing around the idea of a collection of short vignettes of every time I've almost died...either from being hammered and not quite getting across the threshold, or taking a random left turn when later I discover that a right turn would have been fatal. Why not start a new thread, tell us your 'times I almost died' tale, and lets hear some skin crawlers from folks. --riverman You go first, I'll be right on your tail :-) I can only recall one time in my life when I actually thought I was gonna die. I was perfectly sober, met a girl at a bar. We went out side to talk. After we had decided that I would pick her up on a Sat. and go ridin' on my Harley, some girl came up and began arguing with the girl I had just met. Next thing I know there are these drunk and drugged out fellas talkin' **** to me? Well, being young, dumb, and you know the rest. I began talking **** back. Me and this one guy get to tusslin' about, when one of his buddies shoves a hawk-bill knife up against my throat and says, "I'll cut your ass mother****er!" The only words that came out of my mouth were, "this ain't necessary." Real macho, I know. The only thing I could think of at the time was me wakin' up dead in the morgue and him soberin' up in jail sayin', "I did what?" Thankfully, the girls went to fightin' and the guyz turn their attentions to a catfight. I helped break the girls up, while the other guyz went after some other poor fella. I got the girl for one night and decided to never see her again after that. And here I am, girless, but alive. Mark |
"bearsbuddy" wrote in message ... "riverman" wrote in message ... Great idea for a thread! I've been tossing around the idea of a collection of short vignettes of every time I've almost died...either from being hammered and not quite getting across the threshold, or taking a random left turn when later I discover that a right turn would have been fatal. Why not start a new thread, tell us your 'times I almost died' tale, and lets hear some skin crawlers from folks. --riverman You go first, I'll be right on your tail :-) I can only recall one time in my life when I actually thought I was gonna die. I was perfectly sober, met a girl at a bar. We went out side to talk. After we had decided that I would pick her up on a Sat. and go ridin' on my Harley, some girl came up and began arguing with the girl I had just met. Next thing I know there are these drunk and drugged out fellas talkin' **** to me? Well, being young, dumb, and you know the rest. I began talking **** back. Me and this one guy get to tusslin' about, when one of his buddies shoves a hawk-bill knife up against my throat and says, "I'll cut your ass mother****er!" The only words that came out of my mouth were, "this ain't necessary." Real macho, I know. The only thing I could think of at the time was me wakin' up dead in the morgue and him soberin' up in jail sayin', "I did what?" Thankfully, the girls went to fightin' and the guyz turn their attentions to a catfight. I helped break the girls up, while the other guyz went after some other poor fella. I got the girl for one night and decided to never see her again after that. And here I am, girless, but alive. Wow. Well, that certainly qualifies! I guess I'm a bigger risk-taker than you (or else I have a heavier sense of the dramatic) as I can think of a few times right off the top of my head. 1) I was hiking in the Grand Canyon with my friend Roger (now deceased.....damn cancer!) and we went up into Tapeats Cave above Thunder River. If anyone else has climbed into it, they know that you do a switchback walkup to about 100 feet above the river, then move out onto an exposed ledge that's about 6 inches wide, and upclimb about 10 feet to the mouth of the cave. Its not all that hard, as long as you don't look down on the upclimb (which has really bombproof handholds, like climbing a ladder). When we finished exploring the cave, we came out at the entrance, which is like a narrow doorstep, and had to bend over to get our hands down at the lip of the mouth, turn in place, and get our feet on the face to downclimb to the ledge. Sort of like stepping off a roof onto a ladder that ends right at the edge, so there's no handhold. When I bent over to put my hands down by my feet, my butt hit the wall behind me and launched me forwards, right at this 100 foot dropoff. I grabbed the lip at my toes with my fingers over the lip, and had just enough strength in my hands to push hard with my fingers and catch myself before I teetered off. Roger, standing a ways behind me, wisely said "Nice move, now you better downclimb real fast before the adrenaline hits you and your hands get all sweaty and your knees start to shake." Later I was almost in tears. 2) I was once hitchhiking down route 128 outside Boston (back in College), and as I was getting no rides, I started walking along the breakdown lane to the next exit. As I approached the giant green sign saying 'exit ahead', I noticed that my shadow on the sign had an interesting behavior (it was night, and the car headlights cast a shadow) It would start small, at the bottom of the sign, then start to get large as the cars approached me, then suddenly would sweep sideways, accelerating off the sign as the car passed me. There also were multiple shadows moving at the same time, as the busy traffic roared by. Suddenly, I noticed one shadew grow larger than the rest and not sweep sideways. I leaped off the side of the breakdown lane just as this little sports car shot by, missing me by fractions of a foot. I mean, it was really close. He was driving like a lunatic, doing fighter passes in the breakdown lane, and he never even saw me. If I hadn't noticed the shadow thing, I would have been run down. To this day, that particular one still scares the bejesus out of me. 3) On a river trip I was leading in Canada (I posted about this one here years back) I was going around a bend and the river split in two around a tall gravel island. On instict alone, I took the inside channel, motioning for all the client boats to follow me. Normally, you take the outer channel as the inside track often gets shallow. Once we got below the island, we eddied out and hiked back upstream along the outside channel, and there was a huge strainer right across the river. The banks were all large cobblestones with no eddys, and there was absolutely no way to stop. IF we had taken the outside channel, we would have all been swept into the strainer and definately drowned. To this day I have no idea why I took the inside channel...just a vague instinct that it was a spring trip, and 'if' there had been any strainers they would have been swept to the outside channel. Turns out, that this was exactly what happened. --riverman |
"riverman" wrote in message ... Wow. Well, that certainly qualifies! I guess I'm a bigger risk-taker than you (or else I have a heavier sense of the dramatic) as I can think of a few times right off the top of my head. --riverman Oh, I thought you were talkin' about REAL Near Death Experiences! Seriously, I have lived a fairly uneventful life. I'm a home body, where as you and so many others are travelers and thrill seekers. Outside of the drunkin' bar fights and ingestion of drugs that I had no idea what they were or would do to me, I have lived a fair safe life. Well except for the few times I have almost drowned, but I figure everyone has almost drown, if they have spent any time around water. Now my brother! He almost lost his life when I was twelve, and I was the one pointing the .38 cal at him, but I digress. Mark |
"bearsbuddy" wrote in message ... "riverman" wrote in message ... Wow. Well, that certainly qualifies! I guess I'm a bigger risk-taker than you (or else I have a heavier sense of the dramatic) as I can think of a few times right off the top of my head. --riverman Oh, I thought you were talkin' about REAL Near Death Experiences! Seriously, I have lived a fairly uneventful life. I'm a home body, where as you and so many others are travelers and thrill seekers. Outside of the drunkin' bar fights and ingestion of drugs that I had no idea what they were or would do to me, I have lived a fair safe life. Well except for the few times I have almost drowned, but I figure everyone has almost drown, if they have spent any time around water. Now my brother! He almost lost his life when I was twelve, and I was the one pointing the .38 cal at him, but I digress. Mark Hey, tell us about a near drowning. Those are always interesting... --riverman (for everyone involved) |
Ok not boat or alcohol relate. Ok I was probably hung over. Flew in a Cessna
150 with a college friend to check out a grass strip his dad was buying. Dad being smarter than us drove up. We landed to find that the old owner had not cut the grass in a long while, which we did not see from the air. The strip was slanted with a high voltage wire over one end. We looked the place over and returned to the plane. We tried to take off into the wind but could not come close to getting airborne due to the grass and the upslope. Turned around and ran out of the wind (bad), downhill (good) towards the wire at the other end (bad). Turns out the wire would not matter because there was no way in hell we could have gotten up high enough to hit it. My friend was bouncing the plane from wheel to wheel to try to cut down on the drag from the high grass. We picked up speed so slow I thought I should get out and push. We were committed with no way to stop before the barn (did I forget to mention the barn at this end of the field - very bad). We squeaked into the air with the stall warning blaring and made it over the barn only because it did not have a weather vane (I still looked back for tire tracks on the roof). I was shook, I had spent many hours in small planes at this point, but that was a little close for me. My friend had done well. He didn't panic and he got it in the air. Poor judgment for committing to the takeoff not withstanding, he was cool through it all. I didn't get really, really concerned about what we just did until he turned to me and with that typical pilot understatement said "That was not good". The problem was his total lack of color and the buckets of sweat coming off his face. Well like the saying goes that which does not kill you. He has made a very good career getting people safely from place to place for the last 20 years and I learned to open my damn mouth when I don't like the looks of something. That has probably saved me from having more stories like this one. Although I do have a few more but I will pause to read about your missteps for awhile. Great idea Riverman - nice break from the other thread. Anyone taking bets on how long it takes this thread to digress ; Ken "riverman" wrote in message ... "Frederick Burroughs" wrote in message ... Personally, my life has been perilously close to the edge a few times. The fact that I'm still here gives me pause. Each incident is like a skin has been shed from a progressing metamorphosis. Most people I know have stood at death's door once or twice, but were denied admittance by luck or attentive guardian angel. Great idea for a thread! I've been tossing around the idea of a collection of short vignettes of every time I've almost died...either from being hammered and not quite getting across the threshold, or taking a random left turn when later I discover that a right turn would have been fatal. Why not start a new thread, tell us your 'times I almost died' tale, and lets hear some skin crawlers from folks. --riverman You go first, I'll be right on your tail :-) |
"riverman" wrote in message ... ...tell us your 'times I almost died' tale... A bunch of us were at Wyalusing state park, at the confluence of the Wisconsin and the Mississippi rivers for a weekend of camping......sometime around 1979, I guess. Wyalusing is a beautiful place featuring, among other attractions, a series of trails along the tops of the bluffs overlooking the rivers. One of the campgrounds is near enough to the bluffs that the distant lights of Prairie du Chien are visible across the river at night......a gorgeous sight. For some of us these were days of hard drinking and frequent herbal indulgence. Scott was something of an exemplar of the lifestyle and I did my best to keep up. One night, for reasons that were never examined (and which would doubtless remain a complete mystery anyway), we wandered off from the group at the campground and, between tokes and sips, managed to stumble down a bunch of trails in the dark for an hour or more. The beer and other liquid refreshments taking their inevitable toll, we stopped at one point to take a leak standing side by side straddling the narrow trail. Having finished, Scott stepped boldly forward......and I reached out, grabbed him by the collar and jerked him off his feet as I shrieked "STOP!" "What the ****?!," he queried from where he had fallen. I didn't answer. I was thinking. Something was wrong.......but I couldn't quite put my finger on it. Drunk as I was, there was a wee bit of my brain.......somewhere down in the old reptilian part......that had been monitoring the situation, and didn't like what it saw....or heard......or DIDN'T hear, to be more precise. When **** hits the ground it makes a splashing noise. Neither of us had paid any attention at the time, but there was no splashing noise. I flicked on my lighter and, after several tries, managed to light a piece of paper or bark or something.......just enough to show that I was standing within a foot of a 75 foot drop-off ending at the proverbial "jagged rocks below". Wolfgang just one of many "scott and wolfgang get really stupid" stories. |
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