"riverman" wrote in message
...

Either youre a fan of Haggis, the Simpsons, or M*A*S*H.

"It's nice to be nice to the nice."

Wolfgang
who supposes monty or bobby COULD have said that.

"Brian Nystrom" wrote in message
...
Steve Landis wrote:
Brian Nystrom wrote:

No Spam wrote:

It did not have a good ending.

*Rescuers Find Lost Teen Kayakers Dead *



The "chaperons" took a group of kid out on the gulf with no other
means of summoning help than a friggin' cell phone?!? MORONS!
Their
ineptitude cost two innocent kids their lives.


It seems the trip leader was more than a chaperone...

from... http://tinyurl.com/4r28a

"The tour was led by an English teacher at the private Darlington
School, Steve Hall, who is a licensed outdoor tour guide and leads
several weekend adventure trips for teens throughout the year. A
spokeswoman for the school said Hall, who has 25 years in outdoor
education experience, has led a similar trip to that area for
seven
years and never had any safety problems. According to Hall's
outdoor
education trip Web site, he is an experienced river rafting
guide."

not that Steve

Which simply makes the situation all the more appalling and
inexcusable.

Yeah, gosh, if only you had been there. This senseless (and
foreseeable) tragedy could have been......hell, WOULD have been
averted.

Um........why weren't you there?

Wolfgang

"No Spam" wrote in message
news:j38Vd.38241$ya6.25850@trndny01...
That was kind of my take on it. I take more precautions out on a lake. I
really hope the news story left out many details that would help explain
the
seeming lack of preparation. Many times these things are a string of
little
items that add up to disaster. You know the stories, the emergency bag was
left in the car, the tow line broke etc. It all snowballs until it is too
late. It is the experienced person that knows to recognize the little
things
coming together and stops them before it's too late. I did see that the
chase boat had engine failure, so that was one item in the chain. I will
assume that there were others that conspired against this group. I hope to
see a complete story at some point in the future so that we can all see
just
how something like this happens. It might prevent someone else from
falling
in the same trap.

Ken


There is quite a bit available online about this. The guide, Steve Hall, was
no novice (http://www.orrtreks.com/index2.htm ), and from his years of
experience and familiarity with what he was doing at the time, I'm inclined
to think that Ken's post is likely to be in the right vein; you cannot
predict all the possible events, so you take reasonable precautions for the
more likely ones, and go for it; nontheless sometimes things happen.

The alternative: do nothing that involves any risk whatsoever, is so
distasteful to me that I won't comment further on it.

The definition of 'reasonable precautions' is vague, but mutually recognized
by people with experience, and in the lack of details we must look at the
guide's qualifications to determine if he was qualified to assess what was
'reasonable'. It sounds like the guide was well-qualified to lead this type
of trip, had done it many times before, and in this case, as sometimes
happens, a series of unfortunate events resulted in two students' deaths.

I've been on trips where canoeists have gotten away from the pack and had me
worried, and I've been on trips where clients have died, as have others
here. Of course hindsight is 20-20, as is armchair quarterbacking. But from
his bio, as well as the fact that Darlington school had empowered him to
lead trips dozens of times in the past, I'm inclined to believe that this
could be a case of 'there but for the grace of god...'

My condolences for the familys of the kids, and my sympathy for the turmoil
that Steve Hall and Darlington School are about to go through. There could
easily be no winners in this.

--riverman

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...

"riverman" wrote in message
...

Either youre a fan of Haggis, the Simpsons, or M*A*S*H.

"It's nice to be nice to the nice."



Ahhh, very nice!

--riverman

riverman wrote:

[snip some]

He [Wolfgang] is a master at this kind of neutral statement that can
be taken two ways. Its fun to watch, if youre not the target.


Heh heh; a-firmative, Myron. Wolfgang also, undoubtedly, knows that
Rick is easy.


-Richard, His Kanubic Travesty
--

================================================== ====================
Richard Hopley Winston-Salem, NC, USA
rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net
Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll
rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu
OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters
================================================== ====================

riverman wrote:
"Wolfgang" wrote

"riverman" wrote

But still, Wolfie, play nice with your new friends.

The Burnsian postulate is always uppermost in my mind.


Huh?
Either youre a fan of Haggis, the Simpsons, or M*A*S*H.


Say goodnight, Gracie.


-Richard, His Kanubic Travesty
--

================================================== ====================
Richard Hopley Winston-Salem, NC, USA
rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net
Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll
rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu
OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters
================================================== ====================

Dave Manby wrote:
I wrote this some four years ago but nowt has changed my attitude

[snip long message]


I agree! Paddling is fun!


-Richard, His Kanubic Travesty
--

================================================== ====================
Richard Hopley Winston-Salem, NC, USA
rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net
Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll
rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu
OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters
================================================== ====================

"Oci-One Kanubi" wrote in message
oups.com...
riverman wrote:

[snip some]

He [Wolfgang] is a master at this kind of neutral statement that
can
be taken two ways. Its fun to watch, if youre not the target.


Heh heh; a-firmative, Myron. Wolfgang also, undoubtedly, knows that
Rick is easy.

The procedure is easy. The volunteers.....well, they are abundant.
What else does one need to know?

Wolfgang

Wolfgang wrote:
"riverman" wrote in message
...

Either youre a fan of Haggis, the Simpsons, or M*A*S*H.


"It's nice to be nice to the nice."

Wolfgang
who supposes monty or bobby COULD have said that.

Hah, that's Frank Burns all right, when talking to Margaret Houlihan! :-)

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko(a t)dse(d o t)nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://wilko.webzone.ru/

riverman wrote:

The definition of 'reasonable precautions' is vague, but mutually recognized
by people with experience, and in the lack of details we must look at the
guide's qualifications to determine if he was qualified to assess what was
'reasonable'. It sounds like the guide was well-qualified to lead this type
of trip, had done it many times before, and in this case, as sometimes
happens, a series of unfortunate events resulted in two students' deaths.

14 y.o. beginners, open tandem canoe, no immersion clothing, paddling
open 58-60 degree water, on a day with high off-shore winds forecast. It
takes a very kind heart to find "reasonable" in that, and I appreciate
your trying, but it's hard for me to do so.

--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA