Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Incredibly low CO generator exhaust from new Westerbekes
Carbon monoxide should be a concern of every boater, particularly
boaters with gasoline fueled engines and generators. Seldom does a year go by when there aren't fatalities directly attributable to CO emmissions in gasoline exhaust. Gasoline generators have been particualry worrisome. Generators are often running when a boat is at a dock or at anchor where the vessel is more likely to become surrounded by a cloud of exhaust gasses than when underway. Boaters without gasoline engines may be at risk from the emissions of boaters nearby. In 2003, there were 160 incidents of "outside-the-cabin" Co poisonings, resulting in 48 deaths. At Lake Havasu, Arizona, over Memorial Day weekend, 2004, shoreshide and on-water CO levels were so dangerous that the park wardens had to be removed for their personal safety. Westerbeke developed a new line of gasoline generators designed to all but eliminate CO emmissions. While there may be no "healthy" level of CO, various government and industrial safety organizations have established limits, based on a part-per-million measurement, for "acceptably safe" exposure. A traditional gasoline generator emits CO at a rate of about 10,000 ppm. The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, (NIOSH), recommends that workers should not be exposed to more concentrations greater than 35 ppm measured during a time-weighted work shift and has set a ceiling limit of 200 ppm which should never be exceeded. The American Conference of Government Industrial Hygienists (ACGIH) recommends an 8 hour shift average of no more than 25 ppm, and discourages exposure above 125 ppm. OSHA has established a maximum 8-hour work shift limit of 50 ppm. Exhaust from typical gaoline powered marine generator is 200 times higher than the OSHA recommended level and 400 times higher than the benchmark extablished by ACGIH. Westerbeke's new Safe-CO (tm) Series Generators utilize a "constant speed" EFI technology and an electronic governor, among other improvements, to produce gasoline generators that emit almost no CO. Westerbeke's 5.0kW generator runs at a constant 1800 rpm (not 3600) under full or partial load and produces CO at levels of less than 3 ppm. Not 10,000, not 3,000, not 300, not 30- but 3 ppm or only about 6% of the concentration that OSHA considers acceptable in a workplace environment. An additional benefit of the 1800 rpm operation is that the 5.0kW generator can be installed without a sound shield. Even with one of Westerbeke's Safe-CO generators, nobody will be deliberately piping the genset exhaust aboard. A proper exhaust system, properly maintained, will continue to be crucial. Even so, boaters with a Westerbeke Safe-Co generator can sleep just a bit easier with the knowledge that nearly all risk of CO poisoning from generator emissions has been eliminated by Westerbeke's new clean burning technology. (Send me a legit e-mail address if you would like to view a video file of a Safe-CO generator being electronically tested at the Westerbeke quality assurance laboratory. I'll send a video file by return email.) |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Put an anonymous name to this post and one would consider it spam. Why
shouldn't we look at it that way with your name behind it Chuck? |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Thanks for the info. That's great news for any boater who plans to run a
gasoline generator. Trust Weterbeke to do the job with a medium speed engine. Don't know why anyone would think your post was spam?? Butch "John H" wrote in message ... On 20 Feb 2005 22:01:01 -0800, wrote: Carbon monoxide should be a concern of every boater, particularly boaters with gasoline fueled engines and generators. Seldom does a year go by when there aren't fatalities directly attributable to CO emmissions in gasoline exhaust. Gasoline generators have been particualry worrisome. Generators are often running when a boat is at a dock or at anchor where the vessel is more likely to become surrounded by a cloud of exhaust gasses than when underway. Boaters without gasoline engines may be at risk from the emissions of boaters nearby. In 2003, there were 160 incidents of "outside-the-cabin" Co poisonings, resulting in 48 deaths. At Lake Havasu, Arizona, over Memorial Day weekend, 2004, shoreshide and on-water CO levels were so dangerous that the park wardens had to be removed for their personal safety. Westerbeke developed a new line of gasoline generators designed to all but eliminate CO emmissions. While there may be no "healthy" level of CO, various government and industrial safety organizations have established limits, based on a part-per-million measurement, for "acceptably safe" exposure. More info here also: http://www.safecoproducts.com/ John H On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! "Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it." Rene Descartes |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
"Butch Davis" wrote in message ink.net... Thanks for the info. That's great news for any boater who plans to run a gasoline generator. Trust Weterbeke to do the job with a medium speed engine. Don't know why anyone would think your post was spam?? Butch You are correct. I was a bit too harsh and I apologize to Chuck. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Noted and accepted.
|
#7
|
|||
|
|||
wrote:
No come on campers wakey wakey!!! it's just more of df chuck's spam & like most of the rest is deceptive BS, this time the spam marketing line is dangerous. This is just more of Gould's marketing crap; these are efi petrol engines running at a constant speed, so what??? they have made them more exhaust clean than the dirtiest cheapest they could lay their hands on for a comparison???? Here's some we prepared earlier:-) John you're a thinker so????; compare your new Mustang's exhaust HP for HP with the old 60s car engines or worse the 2 stroke motor bike engines of the 70s??? D'Oh!!!! Come on don't be as dumb as Gould the Lassy's canary to check the dumbo mine??? Certainly don't risk your life thinking you can now actually safely breath the exhaust from any IC engine. Remember the dumbos don't or more likely can't, read the fine print just as the Gould's of this world will never mention it. Honestly; usually Gould's marketing BS can only cost the brain dead gullible their money, like his endless spruiking of fairy tale fuel consumption figures??? (although that could also be dangerous), deceptions about construction?? or in this example closely examine the ppm numbers & see (again) the NG spam marketer at work or the rest of his used to be, used car salesman, used boat seller, well used left over lines, but this time he's actually putting the dumbos at risk. I submit as an example of our pet Butch???? OK I accept it would be tricky to know if he was suffering CO poisoning but..... hey he's still entitled to live. He buys any BS from anyone who will pay him even a second look much less stroke his ego, so now he is & yes still is, the "proud" owner of a worthless boat because he "believed" the NG spammers & actually paid extra money for a Ficht!!!!:-) Listen to our warning this time Butch or you might turn blue & then you'll be a crook Butch:-) .. K Anyway Krause lie of the day is severely challenged by Gould's latest NG spam, but Krause still takes the cake. Here's where this liar works, the lowest of the low, a spruiker for a union rip off, he works in the "PR" dept of a union, that about tells it all PR Contacts For media inquiries, please contact the individual listed below: Harry Krause ULLICO Inc. (202) 682-7957 Here's some of Harry's lies for you, just to bring back old memories:-) But if I may?? before you read; take a look at these passages from an article about the bent union rip off, who rip off other unionists, (honour among .......???) ULLICO Union Pension-Owned Company Set to Lose $20-$30 Million Its stock windfall from the bankrupt Global Crossing now gone, Georgine, former head of the AFL-CIO's Bldg. & Construction Trades Dept., blamed chief financial officer John Grelle for the losses. Days later, Grelle resigned in protest, blasting Georgine for not selling the company jet, which costs $3 million a year. N.B. Now did you see that!!!!!??? Harry as you'll see below "claims" his wife has a corporate jet!!!! He's making these stories up as the jealous junior mail person in the PR dept!!!! There was no indication if Grelle also called on Georgine and other union boss directors of Ullico to return the more than $6 million they made in inside deals of Ullico stock in 2000 and 2001. In the late 90s, Ullico was able to buy Global Crossing stock at its initial public offering (IPO) price. By 1999, a $7.6 million investment had mushroomed to $335 million. After pricing its own stock at a set $25 per share, Ullico directors changed the rules, setting a new price at the beginning of each year. So these rip offs were raking it in at the expense of the workers in many unions & I'll suggest that the fantasy boats that Harry claims are HIS OWN are in fact the play things of the execs of the insurance CO, I also suggest that's his only involvement is as the boat boy for his union bosses!!! Global Crossing spiraled toward bankruptcy, and Ullico's stock took a tumble, the Ullico directors who had bought their stock at $54 a share were given two opportunities to sell it back, the first time for $146 a share, the second time for $75. As Georgine and the other Ullico officials made $6.7 million in profits, the union pension funds that own Ullico could not take advantage of the same deal. And clearly they have a very well practiced liar in the PR dept mail room to help post out those bogus spin releases:-) [New York Times 3/28/03] Carbon monoxide should be a concern of every boater, particularly boaters with gasoline fueled engines and generators. Seldom does a year go by when there aren't fatalities directly attributable to CO emmissions in gasoline exhaust. Gasoline generators have been particualry worrisome. Generators are often running when a boat is at a dock or at anchor where the vessel is more likely to become surrounded by a cloud of exhaust gasses than when underway. Boaters without gasoline engines may be at risk from the emissions of boaters nearby. In 2003, there were 160 incidents of "outside-the-cabin" Co poisonings, resulting in 48 deaths. At Lake Havasu, Arizona, over Memorial Day weekend, 2004, shoreshide and on-water CO levels were so dangerous that the park wardens had to be removed for their personal safety. Westerbeke developed a new line of gasoline generators designed to all but eliminate CO emmissions. While there may be no "healthy" level of CO, various government and industrial safety organizations have established limits, based on a part-per-million measurement, for "acceptably safe" exposure. A traditional gasoline generator emits CO at a rate of about 10,000 ppm. The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, (NIOSH), recommends that workers should not be exposed to more concentrations greater than 35 ppm measured during a time-weighted work shift and has set a ceiling limit of 200 ppm which should never be exceeded. The American Conference of Government Industrial Hygienists (ACGIH) recommends an 8 hour shift average of no more than 25 ppm, and discourages exposure above 125 ppm. OSHA has established a maximum 8-hour work shift limit of 50 ppm. Exhaust from typical gaoline powered marine generator is 200 times higher than the OSHA recommended level and 400 times higher than the benchmark extablished by ACGIH. Westerbeke's new Safe-CO (tm) Series Generators utilize a "constant speed" EFI technology and an electronic governor, among other improvements, to produce gasoline generators that emit almost no CO. Westerbeke's 5.0kW generator runs at a constant 1800 rpm (not 3600) under full or partial load and produces CO at levels of less than 3 ppm. Not 10,000, not 3,000, not 300, not 30- but 3 ppm or only about 6% of the concentration that OSHA considers acceptable in a workplace environment. An additional benefit of the 1800 rpm operation is that the 5.0kW generator can be installed without a sound shield. Even with one of Westerbeke's Safe-CO generators, nobody will be deliberately piping the genset exhaust aboard. A proper exhaust system, properly maintained, will continue to be crucial. Even so, boaters with a Westerbeke Safe-Co generator can sleep just a bit easier with the knowledge that nearly all risk of CO poisoning from generator emissions has been eliminated by Westerbeke's new clean burning technology. (Send me a legit e-mail address if you would like to view a video file of a Safe-CO generator being electronically tested at the Westerbeke quality assurance laboratory. I'll send a video file by return email.) |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
The K of Oz is one really, really sick cookie. Anyone who first has the
temerity to disagree with her makes her sierra list and second, proves her wrong, makes the serious sierra list. Once one becomes so listed one can count on being blasted for every opinion expressed. The K will always accuse the listed soul of lying and spamming. If a listed person is for it she is automatically against it. Rational discussion with a deranged person is impossible and simply a waste of time. For that reason I choose not to engage The K in a discussion. If she was not so deranged she'd actually be funny. Butch "K. Smith" wrote in message ... wrote: No come on campers wakey wakey!!! it's just more of df chuck's spam & like most of the rest is deceptive BS, this time the spam marketing line is dangerous. This is just more of Gould's marketing crap; these are efi petrol engines running at a constant speed, so what??? they have made them more exhaust clean than the dirtiest cheapest they could lay their hands on for a comparison???? Here's some we prepared earlier:-) John you're a thinker so????; compare your new Mustang's exhaust HP for HP with the old 60s car engines or worse the 2 stroke motor bike engines of the 70s??? D'Oh!!!! Come on don't be as dumb as Gould the Lassy's canary to check the dumbo mine??? Certainly don't risk your life thinking you can now actually safely breath the exhaust from any IC engine. Remember the dumbos don't or more likely can't, read the fine print just as the Gould's of this world will never mention it. Honestly; usually Gould's marketing BS can only cost the brain dead gullible their money, like his endless spruiking of fairy tale fuel consumption figures??? (although that could also be dangerous), deceptions about construction?? or in this example closely examine the ppm numbers & see (again) the NG spam marketer at work or the rest of his used to be, used car salesman, used boat seller, well used left over lines, but this time he's actually putting the dumbos at risk. I submit as an example of our pet Butch???? OK I accept it would be tricky to know if he was suffering CO poisoning but..... hey he's still entitled to live. He buys any BS from anyone who will pay him even a second look much less stroke his ego, so now he is & yes still is, the "proud" owner of a worthless boat because he "believed" the NG spammers & actually paid extra money for a Ficht!!!!:-) Listen to our warning this time Butch or you might turn blue & then you'll be a crook Butch:-) . K Anyway Krause lie of the day is severely challenged by Gould's latest NG spam, but Krause still takes the cake. Here's where this liar works, the lowest of the low, a spruiker for a union rip off, he works in the "PR" dept of a union, that about tells it all PR Contacts For media inquiries, please contact the individual listed below: Harry Krause ULLICO Inc. (202) 682-7957 Here's some of Harry's lies for you, just to bring back old memories:-) But if I may?? before you read; take a look at these passages from an article about the bent union rip off, who rip off other unionists, (honour among .......???) ULLICO Union Pension-Owned Company Set to Lose $20-$30 Million Its stock windfall from the bankrupt Global Crossing now gone, Georgine, former head of the AFL-CIO's Bldg. & Construction Trades Dept., blamed chief financial officer John Grelle for the losses. Days later, Grelle resigned in protest, blasting Georgine for not selling the company jet, which costs $3 million a year. N.B. Now did you see that!!!!!??? Harry as you'll see below "claims" his wife has a corporate jet!!!! He's making these stories up as the jealous junior mail person in the PR dept!!!! There was no indication if Grelle also called on Georgine and other union boss directors of Ullico to return the more than $6 million they made in inside deals of Ullico stock in 2000 and 2001. In the late 90s, Ullico was able to buy Global Crossing stock at its initial public offering (IPO) price. By 1999, a $7.6 million investment had mushroomed to $335 million. After pricing its own stock at a set $25 per share, Ullico directors changed the rules, setting a new price at the beginning of each year. So these rip offs were raking it in at the expense of the workers in many unions & I'll suggest that the fantasy boats that Harry claims are HIS OWN are in fact the play things of the execs of the insurance CO, I also suggest that's his only involvement is as the boat boy for his union bosses!!! Global Crossing spiraled toward bankruptcy, and Ullico's stock took a tumble, the Ullico directors who had bought their stock at $54 a share were given two opportunities to sell it back, the first time for $146 a share, the second time for $75. As Georgine and the other Ullico officials made $6.7 million in profits, the union pension funds that own Ullico could not take advantage of the same deal. And clearly they have a very well practiced liar in the PR dept mail room to help post out those bogus spin releases:-) [New York Times 3/28/03] Carbon monoxide should be a concern of every boater, particularly boaters with gasoline fueled engines and generators. Seldom does a year go by when there aren't fatalities directly attributable to CO emmissions in gasoline exhaust. Gasoline generators have been particualry worrisome. Generators are often running when a boat is at a dock or at anchor where the vessel is more likely to become surrounded by a cloud of exhaust gasses than when underway. Boaters without gasoline engines may be at risk from the emissions of boaters nearby. In 2003, there were 160 incidents of "outside-the-cabin" Co poisonings, resulting in 48 deaths. At Lake Havasu, Arizona, over Memorial Day weekend, 2004, shoreshide and on-water CO levels were so dangerous that the park wardens had to be removed for their personal safety. Westerbeke developed a new line of gasoline generators designed to all but eliminate CO emmissions. While there may be no "healthy" level of CO, various government and industrial safety organizations have established limits, based on a part-per-million measurement, for "acceptably safe" exposure. A traditional gasoline generator emits CO at a rate of about 10,000 ppm. The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, (NIOSH), recommends that workers should not be exposed to more concentrations greater than 35 ppm measured during a time-weighted work shift and has set a ceiling limit of 200 ppm which should never be exceeded. The American Conference of Government Industrial Hygienists (ACGIH) recommends an 8 hour shift average of no more than 25 ppm, and discourages exposure above 125 ppm. OSHA has established a maximum 8-hour work shift limit of 50 ppm. Exhaust from typical gaoline powered marine generator is 200 times higher than the OSHA recommended level and 400 times higher than the benchmark extablished by ACGIH. Westerbeke's new Safe-CO (tm) Series Generators utilize a "constant speed" EFI technology and an electronic governor, among other improvements, to produce gasoline generators that emit almost no CO. Westerbeke's 5.0kW generator runs at a constant 1800 rpm (not 3600) under full or partial load and produces CO at levels of less than 3 ppm. Not 10,000, not 3,000, not 300, not 30- but 3 ppm or only about 6% of the concentration that OSHA considers acceptable in a workplace environment. An additional benefit of the 1800 rpm operation is that the 5.0kW generator can be installed without a sound shield. Even with one of Westerbeke's Safe-CO generators, nobody will be deliberately piping the genset exhaust aboard. A proper exhaust system, properly maintained, will continue to be crucial. Even so, boaters with a Westerbeke Safe-Co generator can sleep just a bit easier with the knowledge that nearly all risk of CO poisoning from generator emissions has been eliminated by Westerbeke's new clean burning technology. (Send me a legit e-mail address if you would like to view a video file of a Safe-CO generator being electronically tested at the Westerbeke quality assurance laboratory. I'll send a video file by return email.) |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
K. Smith wrote: wrote: No come on campers wakey wakey!!! it's just more of df chuck's spam & like most of the rest is deceptive BS, this time the spam marketing line is dangerous. This is just more of Gould's marketing crap; these are efi petrol engines running at a constant speed, so what??? they have made them more exhaust clean than the dirtiest cheapest they could lay their hands on for a comparison???? Here's some we prepared earlier:-) John you're a thinker so????; compare your new Mustang's exhaust HP for HP with the old 60s car engines or worse the 2 stroke motor bike engines of the 70s??? D'Oh!!!! Come on don't be as dumb as Gould the Lassy's canary to check the dumbo mine??? Certainly don't risk your life thinking you can now actually safely breath the exhaust from any IC engine. Remember the dumbos don't or more likely can't, read the fine print just as the Gould's of this world will never mention it. Honestly; usually Gould's marketing BS can only cost the brain dead gullible their money, like his endless spruiking of fairy tale fuel consumption figures??? (although that could also be dangerous), deceptions about construction?? or in this example closely examine the ppm numbers & see (again) the NG spam marketer at work or the rest of his used to be, used car salesman, used boat seller, well used left over lines, but this time he's actually putting the dumbos at risk. I submit as an example of our pet Butch???? OK I accept it would be tricky to know if he was suffering CO poisoning but..... hey he's still entitled to live. He buys any BS from anyone who will pay him even a second look much less stroke his ego, so now he is & yes still is, the "proud" owner of a worthless boat because he "believed" the NG spammers & actually paid extra money for a Ficht!!!!:-) Listen to our warning this time Butch or you might turn blue & then you'll be a crook Butch:-) . K Anyway Krause lie of the day is severely challenged by Gould's latest NG spam, but Krause still takes the cake. Here's where this liar works, the lowest of the low, a spruiker for a union rip off, he works in the "PR" dept of a union, that about tells it all PR Contacts For media inquiries, please contact the individual listed below: Harry Krause ULLICO Inc. (202) 682-7957 Here's some of Harry's lies for you, just to bring back old memories:-) But if I may?? before you read; take a look at these passages from an article about the bent union rip off, who rip off other unionists, (honour among .......???) ULLICO Union Pension-Owned Company Set to Lose $20-$30 Million Its stock windfall from the bankrupt Global Crossing now gone, Georgine, former head of the AFL-CIO's Bldg. & Construction Trades Dept., blamed chief financial officer John Grelle for the losses. Days later, Grelle resigned in protest, blasting Georgine for not selling the company jet, which costs $3 million a year. N.B. Now did you see that!!!!!??? Harry as you'll see below "claims" his wife has a corporate jet!!!! He's making these stories up as the jealous junior mail person in the PR dept!!!! There was no indication if Grelle also called on Georgine and other union boss directors of Ullico to return the more than $6 million they made in inside deals of Ullico stock in 2000 and 2001. In the late 90s, Ullico was able to buy Global Crossing stock at its initial public offering (IPO) price. By 1999, a $7.6 million investment had mushroomed to $335 million. After pricing its own stock at a set $25 per share, Ullico directors changed the rules, setting a new price at the beginning of each year. So these rip offs were raking it in at the expense of the workers in many unions & I'll suggest that the fantasy boats that Harry claims are HIS OWN are in fact the play things of the execs of the insurance CO, I also suggest that's his only involvement is as the boat boy for his union bosses!!! Global Crossing spiraled toward bankruptcy, and Ullico's stock took a tumble, the Ullico directors who had bought their stock at $54 a share were given two opportunities to sell it back, the first time for $146 a share, the second time for $75. As Georgine and the other Ullico officials made $6.7 million in profits, the union pension funds that own Ullico could not take advantage of the same deal. And clearly they have a very well practiced liar in the PR dept room to help post out those bogus spin releases:-) [New York Times 3/28/03] Carbon monoxide should be a concern of every boater, particularly boaters with gasoline fueled engines and generators. Seldom does a year go by when there aren't fatalities directly attributable to CO emmissions in gasoline exhaust. Gasoline generators have been particualry worrisome. Generators are often running when a boat is at a dock or at anchor where the vessel is more likely to become surrounded by a cloud of exhaust gasses than when underway. Boaters without gasoline engines may be at risk from the emissions of boaters nearby. In 2003, there were 160 incidents of "outside-the-cabin" Co poisonings, resulting in 48 deaths. At Lake Havasu, Arizona, over Memorial Day weekend, 2004, shoreshide and on-water CO levels were so dangerous that the park wardens had to be removed for their personal safety. Westerbeke developed a new line of gasoline generators designed to all but eliminate CO emmissions. While there may be no "healthy" level of CO, various government and industrial safety organizations have established limits, based on a part-per-million measurement, for "acceptably safe" exposure. A traditional gasoline generator emits CO at a rate of about 10,000 ppm. The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, (NIOSH), recommends that workers should not be exposed to more concentrations greater than 35 ppm measured during a time-weighted work shift and has set a ceiling limit of 200 ppm which should never be exceeded. The American Conference of Government Industrial Hygienists (ACGIH) recommends an 8 hour shift average of no more than 25 ppm, and discourages exposure above 125 ppm. OSHA has established a maximum 8-hour work shift limit of 50 ppm. Exhaust from typical gaoline powered marine generator is 200 times higher than the OSHA recommended level and 400 times higher than the benchmark extablished by ACGIH. Westerbeke's new Safe-CO (tm) Series Generators utilize a "constant speed" EFI technology and an electronic governor, among other improvements, to produce gasoline generators that emit almost no CO. Westerbeke's 5.0kW generator runs at a constant 1800 rpm (not 3600) under full or partial load and produces CO at levels of less than 3 ppm. Not 10,000, not 3,000, not 300, not 30- but 3 ppm or only about 6% of the concentration that OSHA considers acceptable in a workplace environment. An additional benefit of the 1800 rpm operation is that the 5.0kW generator can be installed without a sound shield. Even with one of Westerbeke's Safe-CO generators, nobody will be deliberately piping the genset exhaust aboard. A proper exhaust system, properly maintained, will continue to be crucial. Even so, boaters with a Westerbeke Safe-Co generator can sleep just a bit easier with the knowledge that nearly all risk of CO poisoning from generator emissions has been eliminated by Westerbeke's new clean burning technology. (Send me a legit e-mail address if you would like to view a video file of a Safe-CO generator being electronically tested at the Westerbeke quality assurance laboratory. I'll send a video file by return email.) Would you like a copy of the video, Karen? All you have to do is ask, politely. |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Butch Davis wrote: The K of Oz is one really, really sick cookie. Anyone who first has the temerity to disagree with her makes her sierra list and second, proves her wrong, makes the serious sierra list. Once one becomes so listed one can count on being blasted for every opinion expressed. The K will always accuse the listed soul of lying and spamming. If a listed person is for it she is automatically against it. Rational discussion with a deranged person is impossible and simply a waste of time. For that reason I choose not to engage The K in a discussion. If she was not so deranged she'd actually be funny. Butch I'm completely stumped. Does anybody remember the last time K had anything *positive* to say, on any subject? There must have been one or two ocassions in the last few years- but I struggle to bring any of them to mind. |