hybrid yatch
 

If they can make a car go 70mph with an electric motor, why not an
electric motor asist for large yachts,(50-60 ft) run off batteries
that are charged off a solar array situated on the canopy.

Seems like any assist would be worth while considering large yachts go
thru 1000's of gallons of fuel.

Just a thought.

hybrid yatch
 

hybrid yatch
 

hybrid yatch
 

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 06:04:11 GMT, wrote:



If they can make a car go 70mph with an electric motor, why not an
electric motor asist for large yachts,(50-60 ft) run off batteries
that are charged off a solar array situated on the canopy.

Seems like any assist would be worth while considering large yachts go
thru 1000's of gallons of fuel.

If you want a yacht assist that runs off of solar power, the cheapest,
best tried and true method is called sails.;)

Steve

hybrid yatch
 

K Smith wrote in message ...
wrote:

If they can make a car go 70mph with an electric motor, why not an
electric motor asist for large yachts,(50-60 ft) run off batteries
that are charged off a solar array situated on the canopy.

Seems like any assist would be worth while considering large yachts go
thru 1000's of gallons of fuel.

Just a thought.

Solar panels only put out tiny amounts of power, a standard large one
is good for about 80 watts, in the very best of circumstances i.e. at
noon in the tropics under a clear sky, it would take 10 to make 800
watts or about 1 HP.

Ten of the big panels would be as big as a reasonable sail area, as if
not more difficult to mount & keep oriented straight at the sun, cost
much more, weigh much more.

Then once you got 1 Hp out of them on the rare times when everything
was perfect, you'd need a huge bank of heavy, bulky expensive batteries.
They'd need at least 666 amp hours of battery capacity just to be able
to with stand a continuous charge at that level.

The electric motor is reasonably inefficient also so double all
calculations.

We had a solar powered boat here some years ago, who claimed to set
some world record or other (what BS:-)), but it was running very slowly
up & down a very protected river (we have lots of sun:-)) but it was
purpose built, other peoples' money no object, virtually a floating
battery box & not much else space left for anything else.

K

That's odd. We have a solar car race here, with cars developed from
the engineering schools around the U.S., and they do quite well. And
666 amp/hours isn't a "huge bank of batteries".

hybrid yatch
 

hybrid yatch
 

basskisser wrote:


If they can make a car go 70mph with an electric motor, why not an
electric motor asist for large yachts,(50-60 ft) run off batteries
that are charged off a solar array situated on the canopy.

Seems like any assist would be worth while considering large yachts go
thru 1000's of gallons of fuel.

The problem is the speed/drag curve. At speeds most people want to travel, adding low power "assist"
propulsion is basically adding more drag.

There has been a 40 foot motor yacht that traveled at trawler speeds, totally solar powered. It was not
a market success. That was about ten years, I suspect that technology could do a little better now. But
it still won't produce a big heavy express cruiser that will plane.



If you want a yacht assist that runs off of solar power, the cheapest,
best tried and true method is called sails.;)


I thought sails used wind.

Where do you think wind (or all weather, for that matter) comes from? Elves?

DSK

hybrid yatch
 

basskisser wrote:
(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 06:04:11 GMT, wrote:



If they can make a car go 70mph with an electric motor, why not an
electric motor asist for large yachts,(50-60 ft) run off batteries
that are charged off a solar array situated on the canopy.

Seems like any assist would be worth while considering large yachts go
thru 1000's of gallons of fuel.

If you want a yacht assist that runs off of solar power, the cheapest,
best tried and true method is called sails.;)

Steve


I thought sails used wind.


Wind is solar energy, it's the product of the sun heating air.

Given that the sun puts down about 800 watts /m2 (1HP/sq yd of surface
area) there's plenty of power "available" & it can keep the wind blowing
even when in darkness, because of the aggregate huge amounts of energy
that are deposited every 24 hrs.

K

hybrid yatch
 

basskisser wrote:
K Smith wrote in message ...

wrote:

If they can make a car go 70mph with an electric motor, why not an
electric motor asist for large yachts,(50-60 ft) run off batteries
that are charged off a solar array situated on the canopy.

Seems like any assist would be worth while considering large yachts go
thru 1000's of gallons of fuel.

Just a thought.

Solar panels only put out tiny amounts of power, a standard large one
is good for about 80 watts, in the very best of circumstances i.e. at
noon in the tropics under a clear sky, it would take 10 to make 800
watts or about 1 HP.

Ten of the big panels would be as big as a reasonable sail area, as if
not more difficult to mount & keep oriented straight at the sun, cost
much more, weigh much more.

Then once you got 1 Hp out of them on the rare times when everything
was perfect, you'd need a huge bank of heavy, bulky expensive batteries.
They'd need at least 666 amp hours of battery capacity just to be able
to with stand a continuous charge at that level.

The electric motor is reasonably inefficient also so double all
calculations.

We had a solar powered boat here some years ago, who claimed to set
some world record or other (what BS:-)), but it was running very slowly
up & down a very protected river (we have lots of sun:-)) but it was
purpose built, other peoples' money no object, virtually a floating
battery box & not much else space left for anything else.

K


That's odd. We have a solar car race here, with cars developed from
the engineering schools around the U.S., and they do quite well. And
666 amp/hours isn't a "huge bank of batteries".

We have a similar race from Darwin to Adelaide!!! mostly local cars or
from Japan etc & yes they do perform well. However they don't make any
real power. I don't know what the accepted numbers are on a cyclist, but
I do know a good oarsperson:-) can only make a max of about a 1/4 hp
over any length of time. So that gives you some idea. I used to have an
exercise bike with a meter which read in watts & I couldn't make any
real power at all even in a burst, so given how push bikes perform
pedaled by the tiny power humans can generate, it's no real surprise
that light purpose built solar cars can also be OK.

We're a bit like batteries, we take time accept, convert & then store
the charge & then you can't draw down on it too quickly or the
reconversion bringing it out of storage will make you over heat, you can
have a quick burst then allow some time to cool & reconvert some more
charge out of storage & you can have another quick burst.

Rolling, stop, start, up, then down hill cars can use this with
batteries to advantage; not so a boat.

The "solar cars" are very light almost push bike technology. As the
original poster commented electric cars do work with nothing much more
than wind resistance to overcome on the flat but they do need overnight
plugged into the mains just to give an hour or two city type driving.

However a boat has a high & constant resistance from the water, 600
times more so than air. Even to go very slowly pushing water out of the
way takes much more HP that a car.

I agree 666 amp/hours capacity isn't that big a bank, but that's just
to be able to withstand the charge rate & not be overheated or damaged.
If ever fully charged (not likely); you now have to reconvert & draw on
it & drawing 800 watts continuously out of say 3 x 120 amp/hr batteries
will trip the inverter cutout in about 3/4 of an hour or less, leave it
a while so the batteries can recover (no added charging, just a rest to
cool) & you'll get a while longer etc.

Now imagine the numbers of solar panels & batteries you'll need to
actually draw any real HP continuously over any length of time, even
just for a couple of hours like the overnight mains charged cars do.

K

hybrid yatch
 

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 11:05:20 +1100, K Smith
wrote:

basskisser wrote:
(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 06:04:11 GMT, wrote:



If they can make a car go 70mph with an electric motor, why not an
electric motor asist for large yachts,(50-60 ft) run off batteries
that are charged off a solar array situated on the canopy.

Seems like any assist would be worth while considering large yachts go
thru 1000's of gallons of fuel.

If you want a yacht assist that runs off of solar power, the cheapest,
best tried and true method is called sails.;)

Steve


I thought sails used wind.


Wind is solar energy, it's the product of the sun heating air.

Then again, petroleum based fuel is also just stored solar power from a
long time ago.:)

Steve

hybrid yatch
 

K Smith wrote in message ...
basskisser wrote:
(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 06:04:11 GMT, wrote:



If they can make a car go 70mph with an electric motor, why not an
electric motor asist for large yachts,(50-60 ft) run off batteries
that are charged off a solar array situated on the canopy.

Seems like any assist would be worth while considering large yachts go
thru 1000's of gallons of fuel.

If you want a yacht assist that runs off of solar power, the cheapest,
best tried and true method is called sails.;)

Steve


I thought sails used wind.


Wind is solar energy, it's the product of the sun heating air.

A very small percentage of the wind on the planet is a "product of the
sun heating air".

hybrid yatch
 

hybrid yatch
 

On 19 Jan 2004 04:25:16 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...
On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 11:05:20 +1100, K Smith
wrote:

basskisser wrote:
(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 06:04:11 GMT, wrote:



If they can make a car go 70mph with an electric motor, why not an
electric motor asist for large yachts,(50-60 ft) run off batteries
that are charged off a solar array situated on the canopy.

Seems like any assist would be worth while considering large yachts go
thru 1000's of gallons of fuel.

If you want a yacht assist that runs off of solar power, the cheapest,
best tried and true method is called sails.;)

Steve


I thought sails used wind.


Wind is solar energy, it's the product of the sun heating air.

Then again, petroleum based fuel is also just stored solar power from a
long time ago.:)

Interesting. So, you are, in essence, saying that the only component
of fossil fuels is sun?

I'm saying that the power in petroleum based fuel (I guess I should say
naturally aged fuel) is just stored solar power from a long time ago.

Steve

hybrid yatch
 

On 19 Jan 2004 04:24:26 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

K Smith wrote in message ...
basskisser wrote:
(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 06:04:11 GMT, wrote:



If they can make a car go 70mph with an electric motor, why not an
electric motor asist for large yachts,(50-60 ft) run off batteries
that are charged off a solar array situated on the canopy.

Seems like any assist would be worth while considering large yachts go
thru 1000's of gallons of fuel.

If you want a yacht assist that runs off of solar power, the cheapest,
best tried and true method is called sails.;)

Steve


I thought sails used wind.


Wind is solar energy, it's the product of the sun heating air.

A very small percentage of the wind on the planet is a "product of the
sun heating air".

And the rest is from your mouth.

Steve

hybrid yatch
 

hybrid yatch
 

basskisser wrote:
K Smith wrote in message ...

basskisser wrote:

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...


On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 06:04:11 GMT, wrote:



If they can make a car go 70mph with an electric motor, why not an
electric motor asist for large yachts,(50-60 ft) run off batteries
that are charged off a solar array situated on the canopy.

Seems like any assist would be worth while considering large yachts go
thru 1000's of gallons of fuel.

If you want a yacht assist that runs off of solar power, the cheapest,
best tried and true method is called sails.;)

Steve


I thought sails used wind.


Wind is solar energy, it's the product of the sun heating air.


A very small percentage of the wind on the planet is a "product of the
sun heating air".


In that case you'll now post what causes the rest??? Even the migration
of the various entire systems from the west to the east is directly
related to the sun.

Anyway if you think otherwise I for one will read your explanation with
interest.

K

hybrid yatch
 

K Smith wrote in message news:buioos$i68o1$1@ID-
Wind is solar energy, it's the product of the sun heating air.


A very small percentage of the wind on the planet is a "product of the
sun heating air".


In that case you'll now post what causes the rest??? Even the migration
of the various entire systems from the west to the east is directly
related to the sun.

Anyway if you think otherwise I for one will read your explanation with
interest.

K

Sure thing, ask and you shall receive. That above statement about
migration of various entire systems is pure rubbish. Ever hear of the
Coriolis Force? Guess not, huh? Anyway: Wind is the product of the
movement of air. Air has a certain density and surrounds the earth for
a layer of approximately 64km in altitude. Air exerts a downward
pressure, which is referred to as atmospheric pressure. The pressure
on the earth's surface is one atmosphere, or one "bar", at sea level
(mean absolute sea level/masl). Air pressure is measured with a
barometer.


As the Earth rotates on its axis, gravity forces this relatively
"heavy" air near the Earth's surface to spin round with it. However,
the air higher up is less affected. The difference between the speed
at which air moves close to the surface and the speed of air higher up
forms vortexes or whirlpools. This mixing causes variations in air
speed, and, consequently, "wind" is generated at the earth's surface

hybrid yatch
 

hybrid yatch
 

basskisser wrote:


A very small percentage of the wind on the planet is a "product of the
sun heating air".

Really? Where does the rest of it come from?

DSK

hybrid yatch
 

DSK wrote:

basskisser wrote:


A very small percentage of the wind on the planet is a "product of the
sun heating air".

Really? Where does the rest of it come from?

DSK



What a wonderful staightman's line!



--
Email sent to is never read.

hybrid yatch
 

basskisser wrote:
K Smith wrote in message news:buioos$i68o1$1@ID-

Wind is solar energy, it's the product of the sun heating air.


A very small percentage of the wind on the planet is a "product of the
sun heating air".


In that case you'll now post what causes the rest??? Even the migration
of the various entire systems from the west to the east is directly
related to the sun.

Anyway if you think otherwise I for one will read your explanation with
interest.

K


Sure thing, ask and you shall receive. That above statement about
migration of various entire systems is pure rubbish. Ever hear of the
Coriolis Force? Guess not, huh? Anyway: Wind is the product of the
movement of air. Air has a certain density and surrounds the earth for
a layer of approximately 64km in altitude. Air exerts a downward
pressure, which is referred to as atmospheric pressure. The pressure
on the earth's surface is one atmosphere, or one "bar", at sea level
(mean absolute sea level/masl). Air pressure is measured with a
barometer.


As the Earth rotates on its axis, gravity forces this relatively
"heavy" air near the Earth's surface to spin round with it. However,
the air higher up is less affected. The difference between the speed
at which air moves close to the surface and the speed of air higher up
forms vortexes or whirlpools. This mixing causes variations in air
speed, and, consequently, "wind" is generated at the earth's surface


Dear dear dear I shouldn't bother; but will of course:-)

You've totally misunderstood the effect, the air doesn't get "dragged"
along by the earths rotation it's part of the earth.

The effect is when air is rotating vertically & horizontally at the
same time, (it rises as a direct result of the sun's heat, then it cools
& sinks in a cooler part of the earth, that direct route from say the
equator to the poles appears to be deflected to the west because the
earth rotates underneath. The atmosphere at exteme altitudes does
migrate generally in a westerly direction at about 25 mph, but this is
well above "surface weather"

Please stop & think a few moments, if your understanding be right then
most ground level weather systems would approach from the east?? yes???
If you want to argue you'll need to address this sooner or later so do
it now.

They don't; systems mostly approach from the west, why?? because the
sun is heating the air always to the east making it rise, the colder air
& entire systems at "ground level" move into that space.

So the apparent direction of some winds (the trades mostly) appear to
be deflected to the west (S become SE'ly & N becomes NE'ly), however the
driving force for the wind itself is the sun heating air somewhere else.

Sorry atl man, but at least you tried & that takes more guts than the
liar Harry has.



K

hybrid yatch
 

K Smith wrote:

Dear dear dear I shouldn't bother; but will of course:-)

You've totally misunderstood the effect, the air doesn't get "dragged"
along by the earths rotation it's part of the earth.

Bull****.

The surface of the Earth exerts a frictional drag on the air blowing
just above it. This friction can act to change the wind's direction and
slow it down -- keeping it from blowing as fast as the wind aloft. A
difference in terrain conditions directly affects how much friction is
exerted. For example, a calm ocean surface is pretty smooth, so the wind
blowing over it does not move up, down, and around any features. By
contrast, hills and forests force the wind to slow down and/or change
direction much more.


The effect is when air is rotating vertically & horizontally at the
same time, (it rises as a direct result of the sun's heat, then it cools
& sinks in a cooler part of the earth,

The effect of what? Try writing in standard English. Are you referring
to the Coriolis effect? If so, there are a million accurate descriptions
of that around, so there is no need for you to find one and rewrite it
into your usual non-parsing nonsense.



that direct route from say the
equator to the poles appears to be deflected to the west because the
earth rotates underneath. The atmosphere at exteme altitudes does
migrate generally in a westerly direction at about 25 mph, but this is
well above "surface weather"

Good grief...just lift the stuff, don't try to rewrite it, eh? You can't
write.


Sorry atl man, but at least you tried & that takes more guts than the
liar Harry has.



K

Can't leave it alone, eh, butch?

Let me put it in terms you will surely understand.

Anyone who has even social intercourse with you is at risk of
contracting a disease. You are the loser's loser, Karen.

You ought to be taken out and hung for the cold-blooded murder of the
English tongue. Did you even complete the 8th grade?







--
Email sent to is never read.

hybrid yatch
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
K Smith wrote:

Dear dear dear I shouldn't bother; but will of course:-)

You've totally misunderstood the effect, the air doesn't get "dragged"
along by the earths rotation it's part of the earth.

Bull****.

The surface of the Earth exerts a frictional drag on the air blowing
just above it. This friction can act to change the wind's direction and
slow it down -- keeping it from blowing as fast as the wind aloft. A
difference in terrain conditions directly affects how much friction is
exerted. For example, a calm ocean surface is pretty smooth, so the wind
blowing over it does not move up, down, and around any features. By
contrast, hills and forests force the wind to slow down and/or change
direction much more.


The effect is when air is rotating vertically & horizontally at the
same time, (it rises as a direct result of the sun's heat, then it cools
& sinks in a cooler part of the earth,

The effect of what? Try writing in standard English. Are you referring
to the Coriolis effect? If so, there are a million accurate descriptions
of that around, so there is no need for you to find one and rewrite it
into your usual non-parsing nonsense.



that direct route from say the
equator to the poles appears to be deflected to the west because the
earth rotates underneath. The atmosphere at exteme altitudes does
migrate generally in a westerly direction at about 25 mph, but this is
well above "surface weather"

Good grief...just lift the stuff, don't try to rewrite it, eh? You can't
write.


Sorry atl man, but at least you tried & that takes more guts than the
liar Harry has.



K

Can't leave it alone, eh, butch?

Let me put it in terms you will surely understand.

Anyone who has even social intercourse with you is at risk of
contracting a disease. You are the loser's loser, Karen.

You ought to be taken out and hung for the cold-blooded murder of the
English tongue. Did you even complete the 8th grade?







--
Email sent to is never read.

After a million years, the air is moving at the same speed as the earth.
All the inertia. solar is probably 99.9% of the wind cause. The differences
in surface features will redirect the winds, but mostly solar. One of the
hypothesis of the Woolly Mammoth die off, was a small meteor strike and a
wobble of the earth. The resulting several hundred mile an hour winds with
shade, caused a huge wind chill, flash freezing the mammoths. They are
found popping out of glaciers with subtropical flowers in their teeth and
undigested food in the gut. They are large enough that unless there was
massive chilling the stomachs would have finished digesting the food.

hybrid yatch
 

On 20 Jan 2004 06:45:28 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...
On 19 Jan 2004 04:24:26 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

K Smith wrote in message ...
basskisser wrote:
(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 06:04:11 GMT, wrote:



If they can make a car go 70mph with an electric motor, why not an
electric motor asist for large yachts,(50-60 ft) run off batteries
that are charged off a solar array situated on the canopy.

Seems like any assist would be worth while considering large yachts go
thru 1000's of gallons of fuel.

If you want a yacht assist that runs off of solar power, the cheapest,
best tried and true method is called sails.;)

I thought sails used wind.


Wind is solar energy, it's the product of the sun heating air.

A very small percentage of the wind on the planet is a "product of the
sun heating air".

And the rest is from your mouth.

Typical response from the village idiot. Do you disagree with my
statement that a very small percentage of the wind is a product of the
sun heating air, or are you just being childish?

Your statement that a very small percentage of wind is a product of the
sun's heat is wrong. I can see this is going to become another oil and
trailer thread. lol

Steve

hybrid yatch
 

On 20 Jan 2004 06:43:42 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

K Smith wrote in message news:buioos$i68o1$1@ID-
Wind is solar energy, it's the product of the sun heating air.


A very small percentage of the wind on the planet is a "product of the
sun heating air".


In that case you'll now post what causes the rest??? Even the migration
of the various entire systems from the west to the east is directly
related to the sun.

Anyway if you think otherwise I for one will read your explanation with
interest.

K

Sure thing, ask and you shall receive. That above statement about
migration of various entire systems is pure rubbish. Ever hear of the
Coriolis Force? Guess not, huh? Anyway: Wind is the product of the

Apparently you have no idea of what the coriolis force is. Hint: in
order for it to have any effect at all, the air must already be moving.
I.e., the coriolis force has nothing to do with generating wind. But it
does affect the direction which the wind moves.

As the Earth rotates on its axis, gravity forces this relatively
"heavy" air near the Earth's surface to spin round with it. However,
the air higher up is less affected. The difference between the speed
at which air moves close to the surface and the speed of air higher up
forms vortexes or whirlpools. This mixing causes variations in air
speed, and, consequently, "wind" is generated at the earth's surface

Could you be thinking of frictional drag which slows down air close to
the surface? Again, for friction to have an effect, the air must
already be moving. The effect you're describing above accounts for only
a tiny fraction of surface wind, which is what powers sailboats. In
fact, without the spatial unequalness of the sun's heating, you wouldn't
be able to feel any wind at all.

You really should do just a tiny bit of research. If you did, you'd
discover that the sun is the driving force that generates the pressure
differentials which cause wind.

If you want, I'll give you a few links to read:

http://www.weatherquestions.com/What_causes_wind.htm
http://www.theweatherprediction.com/habyhints/85/
A lot of good links to info he
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/reso...cs/wworks0.htm
and a pretty good explanation of the forces acting on moving air:
http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/7n.html

If you want more, there's plenty available both on the web and in the
library. I suggest you try learning something for a change.

Steve

hybrid yatch
 

Steven Shelikoff wrote:

On 20 Jan 2004 06:43:42 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

K Smith wrote in message news:buioos$i68o1$1@ID-
Wind is solar energy, it's the product of the sun heating air.


A very small percentage of the wind on the planet is a "product of the
sun heating air".


In that case you'll now post what causes the rest??? Even the migration
of the various entire systems from the west to the east is directly
related to the sun.

Anyway if you think otherwise I for one will read your explanation with
interest.

K

Sure thing, ask and you shall receive. That above statement about
migration of various entire systems is pure rubbish. Ever hear of the
Coriolis Force? Guess not, huh? Anyway: Wind is the product of the

Apparently you have no idea of what the coriolis force is. Hint: in
order for it to have any effect at all, the air must already be moving.
I.e., the coriolis force has nothing to do with generating wind. But it
does affect the direction which the wind moves.


Hehehe. I pointed out last night that our heroin addict from Oz, Karen
Smith, had no understanding of this issue and in fact had misunderstood
the text she had lifted and rewritten in her own awful style.




--
Email sent to is never read.

hybrid yatch
 

K Smith wrote in message ...
basskisser wrote:
K Smith wrote in message news:buioos$i68o1$1@ID-

Wind is solar energy, it's the product of the sun heating air.


A very small percentage of the wind on the planet is a "product of the
sun heating air".


In that case you'll now post what causes the rest??? Even the migration
of the various entire systems from the west to the east is directly
related to the sun.

Anyway if you think otherwise I for one will read your explanation with
interest.

K


Sure thing, ask and you shall receive. That above statement about
migration of various entire systems is pure rubbish. Ever hear of the
Coriolis Force? Guess not, huh? Anyway: Wind is the product of the
movement of air. Air has a certain density and surrounds the earth for
a layer of approximately 64km in altitude. Air exerts a downward
pressure, which is referred to as atmospheric pressure. The pressure
on the earth's surface is one atmosphere, or one "bar", at sea level
(mean absolute sea level/masl). Air pressure is measured with a
barometer.


As the Earth rotates on its axis, gravity forces this relatively
"heavy" air near the Earth's surface to spin round with it. However,
the air higher up is less affected. The difference between the speed
at which air moves close to the surface and the speed of air higher up
forms vortexes or whirlpools. This mixing causes variations in air
speed, and, consequently, "wind" is generated at the earth's surface


Dear dear dear I shouldn't bother; but will of course:-)

You've totally misunderstood the effect, the air doesn't get "dragged"
along by the earths rotation it's part of the earth.

The effect is when air is rotating vertically & horizontally at the
same time, (it rises as a direct result of the sun's heat, then it cools
& sinks in a cooler part of the earth, that direct route from say the
equator to the poles appears to be deflected to the west because the
earth rotates underneath. The atmosphere at exteme altitudes does
migrate generally in a westerly direction at about 25 mph, but this is
well above "surface weather"

Please stop & think a few moments, if your understanding be right then
most ground level weather systems would approach from the east?? yes???
If you want to argue you'll need to address this sooner or later so do
it now.

They don't; systems mostly approach from the west, why?? because the
sun is heating the air always to the east making it rise, the colder air
& entire systems at "ground level" move into that space.

So the apparent direction of some winds (the trades mostly) appear to
be deflected to the west (S become SE'ly & N becomes NE'ly), however the
driving force for the wind itself is the sun heating air somewhere else.

Sorry atl man, but at least you tried & that takes more guts than the
liar Harry has.



K

Pure rubbish from you!!! You need to do a little research, as opposed
to just running your ignorant mouth. The FACT remains, and is valid.
Do some studying, then get back to me.

hybrid yatch
 

DSK wrote in message ...
basskisser wrote:


A very small percentage of the wind on the planet is a "product of the
sun heating air".

Really? Where does the rest of it come from?

DSK

It comes from inertia, the rotation pull of the earth's surface.

hybrid yatch
 

basskisser wrote:

It comes from inertia, the rotation pull of the earth's surface.

That's not what they said in Met 101.

The Coriolis effect is what influences the *direction* of wind & movement of weather
fronts, but the energy comes from the Sun.

Type "What causes wind?" in Google and see. Or save a few moments of your valuable time
and read this.

http://www.theweatherprediction.com/habyhints/85/

Regards
Doug King

hybrid yatch
 

hybrid yatch
 

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...
On 20 Jan 2004 06:43:42 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

K Smith wrote in message news:buioos$i68o1$1@ID-
Wind is solar energy, it's the product of the sun heating air.


A very small percentage of the wind on the planet is a "product of the
sun heating air".


In that case you'll now post what causes the rest??? Even the migration
of the various entire systems from the west to the east is directly
related to the sun.

Anyway if you think otherwise I for one will read your explanation with
interest.

K

Sure thing, ask and you shall receive. That above statement about
migration of various entire systems is pure rubbish. Ever hear of the
Coriolis Force? Guess not, huh? Anyway: Wind is the product of the

Apparently you have no idea of what the coriolis force is. Hint: in
order for it to have any effect at all, the air must already be moving.
I.e., the coriolis force has nothing to do with generating wind. But it
does affect the direction which the wind moves.

As the Earth rotates on its axis, gravity forces this relatively
"heavy" air near the Earth's surface to spin round with it. However,
the air higher up is less affected. The difference between the speed
at which air moves close to the surface and the speed of air higher up
forms vortexes or whirlpools. This mixing causes variations in air
speed, and, consequently, "wind" is generated at the earth's surface

Could you be thinking of frictional drag which slows down air close to
the surface? Again, for friction to have an effect, the air must
already be moving. The effect you're describing above accounts for only
a tiny fraction of surface wind, which is what powers sailboats. In
fact, without the spatial unequalness of the sun's heating, you wouldn't
be able to feel any wind at all.

You really should do just a tiny bit of research. If you did, you'd
discover that the sun is the driving force that generates the pressure
differentials which cause wind.

If you want, I'll give you a few links to read:

http://www.weatherquestions.com/What_causes_wind.htm
http://www.theweatherprediction.com/habyhints/85/
A lot of good links to info he
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/reso...cs/wworks0.htm
and a pretty good explanation of the forces acting on moving air:
http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/7n.html

If you want more, there's plenty available both on the web and in the
library. I suggest you try learning something for a change.

Steve

Here, stupid, from the link that YOU posted!!!!!:
What causes wind?
Wind is caused by air flowing from high pressure to low pressure.
Since the Earth is rotating, however, the air does not flow directly
from high to low pressure, but it is deflected to the right (in the
Northern Hemisphere; to the left in the Southern Hemisphere), so that
the wind flows around the high and low pressure areas. This effect of
the wind "feeling the Earth turn underneath it" is important for very
large and long-lived pressure systems. For small, short-lived systems
(such as in the cold outflow of a thunderstorm) the wind will flow
directly from high pressure to low pressure.

The closer the high and low pressure areas are together, the stronger
the "pressure gradient", and the stronger the winds. On weather maps,
lines of constant pressure are drawn (as in the example, above) which
are called "isobars". These isobars are usually labeled with their
pressure value in millibars (mb). The closer these lines are together,
the stronger the wind. The curvature of the isobars is also important
to the wind speed. Given the same pressure gradient (isobar spacing),
if they are curved anticyclonically (around the high pressure in the
above example) the wind will be stronger. If the isobars are curved
cyclonically (around the low pressure in the example above) the wind
will be weaker.

hybrid yatch
 

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...
On 20 Jan 2004 06:43:42 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

K Smith wrote in message news:buioos$i68o1$1@ID-
Wind is solar energy, it's the product of the sun heating air.


A very small percentage of the wind on the planet is a "product of the
sun heating air".


In that case you'll now post what causes the rest??? Even the migration
of the various entire systems from the west to the east is directly
related to the sun.

Anyway if you think otherwise I for one will read your explanation with
interest.

K

Sure thing, ask and you shall receive. That above statement about
migration of various entire systems is pure rubbish. Ever hear of the
Coriolis Force? Guess not, huh? Anyway: Wind is the product of the

Apparently you have no idea of what the coriolis force is. Hint: in
order for it to have any effect at all, the air must already be moving.
I.e., the coriolis force has nothing to do with generating wind. But it
does affect the direction which the wind moves.

As the Earth rotates on its axis, gravity forces this relatively
"heavy" air near the Earth's surface to spin round with it. However,
the air higher up is less affected. The difference between the speed
at which air moves close to the surface and the speed of air higher up
forms vortexes or whirlpools. This mixing causes variations in air
speed, and, consequently, "wind" is generated at the earth's surface

Could you be thinking of frictional drag which slows down air close to
the surface? Again, for friction to have an effect, the air must
already be moving. The effect you're describing above accounts for only
a tiny fraction of surface wind, which is what powers sailboats. In
fact, without the spatial unequalness of the sun's heating, you wouldn't
be able to feel any wind at all.

You really should do just a tiny bit of research. If you did, you'd
discover that the sun is the driving force that generates the pressure
differentials which cause wind.

If you want, I'll give you a few links to read:

http://www.weatherquestions.com/What_causes_wind.htm
http://www.theweatherprediction.com/habyhints/85/
A lot of good links to info he
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/reso...cs/wworks0.htm
and a pretty good explanation of the forces acting on moving air:
http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/7n.html

If you want more, there's plenty available both on the web and in the
library. I suggest you try learning something for a change.

Steve

I learn daily, unlike you, who constantly, and instantly thinks he
knows all, even when proven wrong. Please show where I've said that
the coriolis force has anything to do with generating wind. Never said
that, dumb twit. As usual, you need to spin, make up your own
definitions, etc. You are nothing but low life scum, and very unable
to have an intelligent conversation with because of your inablility to
learn. This inability comes from you thinking you know all. How is
your Karate training coming?

hybrid yatch
 

basskisser wrote:


Here, stupid, from the link that YOU posted!!!!!:
What causes wind?
Wind is caused by air flowing from high pressure to low pressure.

Correct. But you have conveniently ignored the basic cause of this pressure differential.


Since the Earth is rotating, however, the air does not flow directly
from high to low pressure, but it is deflected to the right (in the
Northern Hemisphere; to the left in the Southern Hemisphere), so that
the wind flows around the high and low pressure areas.

In other words, the rotation of the earth does affect the direction of the wind, but does not cause or
create the wind from the git-go.

Did you look at the web site I provided a link to? It said in plain words, the sun heats up the air
unevenly and this causes wind. Period.

I know that it is very difficult to admit that you're wrong, but you'll be a better person if you do.

DSK

hybrid yatch
 

On 21 Jan 2004 09:31:36 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...
On 20 Jan 2004 06:45:28 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...
On 19 Jan 2004 04:24:26 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

K Smith wrote in message ...
basskisser wrote:
(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 06:04:11 GMT, wrote:



If they can make a car go 70mph with an electric motor, why not an
electric motor asist for large yachts,(50-60 ft) run off batteries
that are charged off a solar array situated on the canopy.

Seems like any assist would be worth while considering large yachts go
thru 1000's of gallons of fuel.

If you want a yacht assist that runs off of solar power, the cheapest,
best tried and true method is called sails.;)

I thought sails used wind.


Wind is solar energy, it's the product of the sun heating air.

A very small percentage of the wind on the planet is a "product of the
sun heating air".

And the rest is from your mouth.

Typical response from the village idiot. Do you disagree with my
statement that a very small percentage of the wind is a product of the
sun heating air, or are you just being childish?

Your statement that a very small percentage of wind is a product of the
sun's heat is wrong. I can see this is going to become another oil and
trailer thread. lol

No, it's not. You are stupid. The thing is this, you'll make your own
definition of what a "very small percentage" is, and that will be your
whole basis of argument. The simple fact is, and will always be, that
the sun's heat is a MINOR contributer to the earth's wind. MINOR,
twit, understand?

How about if we define "very small percentage" and MINOR as less than
half? Now, where's your proof that the sun's heat is a minor
contributor of a very small percentage of the surface wind that a
sailboat would use? Where's your proof that even all the wind on the
planet, surface or otherwise, is not the result of the sun's heat? I've
given you plenty of proof that it is. You have given none that it's
not.

Steve

hybrid yatch
 

On 21 Jan 2004 09:33:39 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...
On 20 Jan 2004 06:43:42 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

K Smith wrote in message news:buioos$i68o1$1@ID-
Wind is solar energy, it's the product of the sun heating air.


A very small percentage of the wind on the planet is a "product of the
sun heating air".


In that case you'll now post what causes the rest??? Even the migration
of the various entire systems from the west to the east is directly
related to the sun.

Anyway if you think otherwise I for one will read your explanation with
interest.

K

Sure thing, ask and you shall receive. That above statement about
migration of various entire systems is pure rubbish. Ever hear of the
Coriolis Force? Guess not, huh? Anyway: Wind is the product of the

Apparently you have no idea of what the coriolis force is. Hint: in
order for it to have any effect at all, the air must already be moving.
I.e., the coriolis force has nothing to do with generating wind. But it
does affect the direction which the wind moves.

As the Earth rotates on its axis, gravity forces this relatively
"heavy" air near the Earth's surface to spin round with it. However,
the air higher up is less affected. The difference between the speed
at which air moves close to the surface and the speed of air higher up
forms vortexes or whirlpools. This mixing causes variations in air
speed, and, consequently, "wind" is generated at the earth's surface

Could you be thinking of frictional drag which slows down air close to
the surface? Again, for friction to have an effect, the air must
already be moving. The effect you're describing above accounts for only
a tiny fraction of surface wind, which is what powers sailboats. In
fact, without the spatial unequalness of the sun's heating, you wouldn't
be able to feel any wind at all.

You really should do just a tiny bit of research. If you did, you'd
discover that the sun is the driving force that generates the pressure
differentials which cause wind.

If you want, I'll give you a few links to read:

http://www.weatherquestions.com/What_causes_wind.htm
http://www.theweatherprediction.com/habyhints/85/
A lot of good links to info he
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/reso...cs/wworks0.htm
and a pretty good explanation of the forces acting on moving air:
http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/7n.html

If you want more, there's plenty available both on the web and in the
library. I suggest you try learning something for a change.

Steve

Here, stupid, from the link that YOU posted!!!!!:
What causes wind?
Wind is caused by air flowing from high pressure to low pressure.
Since the Earth is rotating, however, the air does not flow directly
from high to low pressure, but it is deflected to the right (in the
Northern Hemisphere; to the left in the Southern Hemisphere), so that
the wind flows around the high and low pressure areas. This effect of
the wind "feeling the Earth turn underneath it" is important for very
large and long-lived pressure systems. For small, short-lived systems
(such as in the cold outflow of a thunderstorm) the wind will flow
directly from high pressure to low pressure.

The closer the high and low pressure areas are together, the stronger
the "pressure gradient", and the stronger the winds. On weather maps,
lines of constant pressure are drawn (as in the example, above) which
are called "isobars". These isobars are usually labeled with their
pressure value in millibars (mb). The closer these lines are together,
the stronger the wind. The curvature of the isobars is also important
to the wind speed. Given the same pressure gradient (isobar spacing),
if they are curved anticyclonically (around the high pressure in the
above example) the wind will be stronger. If the isobars are curved
cyclonically (around the low pressure in the example above) the wind
will be weaker.

Great, so you can cut'n'paste. You just don't know the meaning of what
you're cutting and pasting. Nowhere above does it say that the sun is
not the motive force that creates the pressure differentials which cause
wind. Try again.

Steve

hybrid yatch
 

On 21 Jan 2004 09:37:42 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...
On 20 Jan 2004 06:43:42 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

K Smith wrote in message news:buioos$i68o1$1@ID-
Wind is solar energy, it's the product of the sun heating air.


A very small percentage of the wind on the planet is a "product of the
sun heating air".


In that case you'll now post what causes the rest??? Even the migration
of the various entire systems from the west to the east is directly
related to the sun.

Anyway if you think otherwise I for one will read your explanation with
interest.

K

Sure thing, ask and you shall receive. That above statement about
migration of various entire systems is pure rubbish. Ever hear of the
Coriolis Force? Guess not, huh? Anyway: Wind is the product of the

Apparently you have no idea of what the coriolis force is. Hint: in
order for it to have any effect at all, the air must already be moving.
I.e., the coriolis force has nothing to do with generating wind. But it
does affect the direction which the wind moves.

As the Earth rotates on its axis, gravity forces this relatively
"heavy" air near the Earth's surface to spin round with it. However,
the air higher up is less affected. The difference between the speed
at which air moves close to the surface and the speed of air higher up
forms vortexes or whirlpools. This mixing causes variations in air
speed, and, consequently, "wind" is generated at the earth's surface

Could you be thinking of frictional drag which slows down air close to
the surface? Again, for friction to have an effect, the air must
already be moving. The effect you're describing above accounts for only
a tiny fraction of surface wind, which is what powers sailboats. In
fact, without the spatial unequalness of the sun's heating, you wouldn't
be able to feel any wind at all.

You really should do just a tiny bit of research. If you did, you'd
discover that the sun is the driving force that generates the pressure
differentials which cause wind.

If you want, I'll give you a few links to read:

http://www.weatherquestions.com/What_causes_wind.htm
http://www.theweatherprediction.com/habyhints/85/
A lot of good links to info he
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/reso...cs/wworks0.htm
and a pretty good explanation of the forces acting on moving air:
http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/7n.html

If you want more, there's plenty available both on the web and in the
library. I suggest you try learning something for a change.

Steve

I learn daily, unlike you, who constantly, and instantly thinks he
knows all, even when proven wrong. Please show where I've said that
the coriolis force has anything to do with generating wind. Never said
that, dumb twit. As usual, you need to spin, make up your own
definitions, etc. You are nothing but low life scum, and very unable
to have an intelligent conversation with because of your inablility to
learn. This inability comes from you thinking you know all. How is
your Karate training coming?

Lol, ok. You never said anything about the coriolis force in defending
your position. We'll just conveniently ignore the fact that you did.
But fine. Now, please provide proof of your assertion that the sun's
heat is not the driving force for the majority of wind on Earth.

Steve

hybrid yatch
 

hybrid yatch
 

On 22 Jan 2004 09:36:12 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message
Your statement that a very small percentage of wind is a product of the
sun's heat is wrong. I can see this is going to become another oil and
trailer thread. lol

No, it's not. You are stupid. The thing is this, you'll make your own
definition of what a "very small percentage" is, and that will be your
whole basis of argument. The simple fact is, and will always be, that
the sun's heat is a MINOR contributer to the earth's wind. MINOR,
twit, understand?

How about if we define "very small percentage" and MINOR as less than
half? Now, where's your proof that the sun's heat is a minor
contributor of a very small percentage of the surface wind that a
sailboat would use? Where's your proof that even all the wind on the
planet, surface or otherwise, is not the result of the sun's heat? I've
given you plenty of proof that it is. You have given none that it's
not.

Sure thing, here you go. Time to put your spin on it, to TRY to make
it look like you know anything at all. My "proof" is just as valid as
yours.

Why don't you tell us what YOU meant my "a very small percentage" and
then show some proof that whatever you defined as "a very small
percentage" of wind is the result of the sun's heat.

Well, give some proof, any proof of what you said.

Steve

hybrid yatch
 

DSK wrote in message ...
basskisser wrote:


Here, stupid, from the link that YOU posted!!!!!:
What causes wind?
Wind is caused by air flowing from high pressure to low pressure.

Correct. But you have conveniently ignored the basic cause of this pressure differential.


Since the Earth is rotating, however, the air does not flow directly
from high to low pressure, but it is deflected to the right (in the
Northern Hemisphere; to the left in the Southern Hemisphere), so that
the wind flows around the high and low pressure areas.

In other words, the rotation of the earth does affect the direction of the wind, but does not cause or
create the wind from the git-go.

Did you look at the web site I provided a link to? It said in plain words, the sun heats up the air
unevenly and this causes wind. Period.

I know that it is very difficult to admit that you're wrong, but you'll be a better person if you do.

DSK

Yes, YOU would be a better person. Anyone with reasoning skills would
know that in the above statement, "wind flow" would mean????? Yes!!!
WIND!!! This is from a science website:
As the Earth rotates on its axis, gravity forces this relatively
"heavy" air near the Earth's surface to spin round with it. However,
the air higher up is less affected. The difference between the speed
at which air moves close to the surface and the speed of air higher up
forms vortexes or whirlpools. This mixing causes variations in air
speed, and, consequently, "wind" is generated at the earth's surface

hybrid yatch