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KMAN wrote: in article , Tinkerntom at wrote on 3/6/05 11:27 PM: BCITORGB wrote: Tink says: ============= And if this is so, and Jesus is God, the same Holy God of the Old Testement, and even before the Old Testement, the time of Cain and Abel, how could He not destroy us all? ============= I had a funny feeling I ought not t have gotten into this. I wanted JC's position on these issues (explained, as I understand it, in the New Testament). I have no desire to hear from Moses, Cain, Abel, etc and all those guys in the Old Testament. Can we not just hear from that hippy-dude JC? I have no desire to play back-to-the-future and other games that put Genesis in the mouth of JC. I want to acknowledge an historical figu JC. I want to examine HIS teachings (and his specific words ONLY). If we can't do that, and if, somehow, this discussion has to go before Christmas Day, all bets are off. Anyway, with what you've said to date, on the capital punishment issue, I'm happy to concede to you and fade off into the sunset with the conclusion that this religion stuff is even creepier than I imagined. Evil. Mean-spirited. Vengeful. YIKES! Get me out of here! frtzw906 frtwz, Do you fade so quickly from the race, the game just began? We are still figuring out the rules of the game. I shared initially how JC handled the situation when the religious people tried to trap Him into denying the civil law, and specifically the death penalty for the woman caught in adultery. He endorsed the death penalty when he said " Let the stones fly", or something to that effect! That was from his mouth as a historical figure. I also shared that His submission to the Roman civil law illustrated His compliance to the demand for justice by submitting to crucification, which was the Roman way of exercising the death penalty. A tacit approval, but neverless approval. Is there any other specific teaching of JC regarding capital punishment during his historical life that you are familiar with, and that I am missing, that you wanted to discuss. You say the New Testement, and then limit it further to His historical life, which would primarily restrict the discussion to the 4 Gospels. . When you say "His specific word only", you seem to be wanting to get to a specific point. I don't know what that point is, so if you are, it would help if you would make it known. If I am still missing the question, I apologize for being so dense, and can only encourage you to see if you can ask your question again. I truly am not trying to deceive you, and would desire nothing more than to clearly understand your question, so that I could answer you as clearly. I tried playing JC in Washington now, and that was not what you were after either, so I am totally miffed as to how you want to play the game. As we quickly discovered, playing in the future, and in the past, opens up way to much of the playing field. So if you could restate your questions with whatever limits you choose to put on it, I will see what I can come up with as an answer. No promises! I was rereading your post, and read the following statement that may be a hint of where the block lies. "I wanted JC's position on these issues (explained, as I understand it, in the New Testament)." I don't know what you understand JCs position on these issues to be, as explained in the New Testament, and certainly not knowing your understanding of the New Testament. Maybe if we started from your position, and trying to understand what you say you understand the New Testament teaches that Jc's position is on these issues. Then I could either provide supporting evidence, contradictory evidence or at least clarifying scripture. TnT Tinkerntom, ignoring the fact that the bible is a work of fiction and that only whackos look to use literal interpretations to inform real world decisions, it was also written for the times. In the days of the Old Testament, the idea that only the person who committed a murder would be put to death was very progressive, given that putting that person's entire family to death would not have been uncommon. The New Testament takes things a step further and moves away from "revenge" as a central theme of justice. In 2005 we have the ability to incarcerate someone for life, which means that state-sanctioned murder (known as capital punishment) is nothing but an act of vengeance/revenge. If people feel the need to create mythology around deities, they should at least be honest about issues as important as capital punishment. Anyone who supports state-sanctioned murder does so because they want to kill, not because they think it is what "god" wants. If god wants to strike someone dead, surely he will manage it, without need of a human system of justice that favours poor people and minorities as its murder victims. I suppose you will be forth coming with some evidence to support your currently unsubstantiated statements and propositions? Understanding how important it is to be making substantiated claims! TnT |
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