Michael Daly wrote:
On 3-Mar-2005, "Tinkerntom" wrote:

Or are you saying that it is in fact impossible, based on the
separation of the spiritual realm, and the world where we now
dwell,
and that we are just blowing smoke if we claim such an event has
ever,

It's fairly simple, in fact. The page you linked to is interesting,
as
it demonstrates my point. There is no description of God there.

There is the ambiguous reference to making man in His likeness and
image,
but, as I was taught in grade school, that _may_ only be a reference
to
our mental capacities and ability to choose, not that our physical
form
is the same. No direct reference in the Bible indicates that we have
the same general physical form. Those that are said to have seen God
did not describe Him.

If we are to try to prove God's existence in the physical world, we
have to be aware of His presence in the physical world as a physical
being. The Bible does not offer any evidence of what to expect.
Nor does it show that He is always around in physical form but,
rather,
suggests that He chooses to reveal Himself only on occasion. Since
we don't know what to look for noe when to look, we are at a serious
disadvantage.

The spiritual world cannot be touched or felt. We have no device to
detect it. People who claim to be in touch with the spiritual
world (spiritualists) are considered frauds. Belief in spiritualism,
within the Roman Catholic Church for example, is wrong. This is
not the same thing as getting in touch with the spiritual world by,
say, praying. That, however, is a one-way street. Any possible
results of praying are covered under the vague "mysterious ways"
and cannot be used reliably as an experimental result.

If you want to move into another religion and discuss worldly gods,
then the situation changes. However, the Judeo-Christian God is
presented in the Bible and that's what we have to work with.


On 2/20, you said, "I have _never_ said that God does not exist. I
have never said that belief in God is a sign of a lack of
intelligence."

Does this mean that you do believe in God?

And is this God the same God that you are referring to now the same
God, as mentioned and quoted in this statement, "the Judeo-Christian
God is presented in the Bible and that's what we have to work with"?

Please excuse the nitpicking right now, for this is very interesting
and thought provoking, but I am wanting to be certain that I understand
what you are saying, and what your basis is for these statements.

I am wanting also to clarify that you are not talking about some other
religion and their gods, which would have no logical connection to the
present conversation of the Judeo-Christian God and whether He has
appeared as God in this past or present world. I don't think you are
making any such reference, but I would like to be absolutely sure, so
that it would not confuse the converstion and flow of logic as the
discussion progresses.




or will ever occur?

I cannot claim to know the future. I leave that to fools like
weiser.

Mike

I also do not know the future, but I do look forward to continuing this
converstion in the future. You made a number of points that I will look
forward to understanding more clearly. TnT

On 4-Mar-2005, "Tinkerntom" wrote:

Does this mean that you do believe in God?

I am an agnostic. I have no basis for belief and no
basis to deny. Sorry if that's a bit ambiguous, but
that's where I rest.

And is this God the same God that you are referring to now the same
God, as mentioned and quoted in this statement, "the Judeo-Christian
God is presented in the Bible and that's what we have to work with"?

The Judeo-Christian God is the one I am discussing, to the exclusion
of others. There are so many gods out there, with different histories
and forms that we have to narrow the field to one I am more or less
familiar with.

Mike

Michael Daly wrote:
On 4-Mar-2005, "Tinkerntom" wrote:

Does this mean that you do believe in God?

I am an agnostic. I have no basis for belief and no
basis to deny. Sorry if that's a bit ambiguous, but
that's where I rest.

And is this God the same God that you are referring to now the same
God, as mentioned and quoted in this statement, "the
Judeo-Christian
God is presented in the Bible and that's what we have to work
with"?

The Judeo-Christian God is the one I am discussing, to the exclusion
of others. There are so many gods out there, with different
histories
and forms that we have to narrow the field to one I am more or less
familiar with.

Mike

Again very fair, understanding that you are more or less familiar with
teaching about tne Judeo-Christian God, that as an agnostic you believe
exist, but which you do not believe you can personally know, what are
you familiar with the teaching about the Trinity? I am not asking
whether you prescribe to the teaching, just whether you are familiar
with that teaching. Again I apollogize if I am nitpicking, but I don't
want to make any unwarrated assumptions about you, your understanding,
and what you believe about the Judeo=Christian God you say exists. TnT

On 4-Mar-2005, "Tinkerntom" wrote:

what are
you familiar with the teaching about the Trinity?

I went to Christian schools for 11 years.

Mike

Michael Daly wrote:
On 4-Mar-2005, "Tinkerntom" wrote:

what are
you familiar with the teaching about the Trinity?

I went to Christian schools for 11 years.

Mike

Is this Catholic or Protestant?

My only experience growing up with church, I went to Catholic Church
with a friend when I was probably 5 or 6. I remember setting with a
bunch of children, and we were instructed to set with our hands on the
hand rail in front of us. Which I figure something was going to happen
to cause us to fall off the bench, and we had to hold on so as to not
fall all the way to the floor.

I was curious to know what was going on, as the play began, and I
thought it was like the theatre! I ask my friend Scott. I then found
out why we held on to the rail. It made it a whole lot easier for that
lady in the funny looking black dress, to hit my hands with a ruler.
Then she hit me again cause I started to cry.

That was the last time I went to church, for over 10 years. I hope that
you did not get hit too many times in 11 years! TnT