"KMAN" wrote in message
. ..

"Tinkerntom

snip...

what this is about.

Have you seen rick provide any evidence to support a claim
that
Canadians
are dying in waiting lines for health care?

[] Yes
[] No

Ok I'll try to answer you! Last night, I spent several hours
going
through the archives of this discussion, reading several
hundred post
by Kman, frtwz, Mike D, Wilko, Scott W, and of course our good
friend
rick. I do not know whether rick will abide by my arbitration
in this
matter though so I am not sure whether I should wait for him
to agree.
However, he did say in one of his post even this AM, that he
stands by
his record, and that he posted as he claims evidence of
Canadians dying
while on wait list for medical procedures and Tests. I am
assuming also
that being on a wait list is the same thing as being in a wait
line. If
they are different, I did not find any claim by rick that
people are
dying in an actual line while waiting, or evidence to support
any such
claim.

Right. That's all I am saying.

You should have simply ticked "yes" instead of babbling on, but
oh well.

He has not provided any evidence that Canadians are dying
waiting in line (or waiting on a list) for health care.
==============
Yes, I have.



However, on 2/20 at 9:32 Rick presented 4 links as evidence to
support
his claim that Canadians were dying while on wait list, and
receiving
late, slow, and inadequate medical procedures. That if a
Canadian had
the funding, that he could go to the USA and receive prompt
medical
attention, and that in Canada, such outsoursing was considered
illegal,
and subject to a substantial penalty. Rick was not comparing
the
advantages or disadvantages of the two systems, nor even
saying that
the American system was good at all. He was only commenting on
the
Canadian system that resulted in long wait times for certain
procedures

In certain rare circumstances, particularly in geographically
isolated areas, or for unique specialty tests, yes.
======================
And treatment. Even YOU have said Canadians wait for treatment.


and tests that at times resulted in people dying before they
could
receive the medical attention that could have served to save
their
lives.

There is no evidence of that.
==============
Yes, there is.


He was not saying that once the people actually received the
medical attention, that the medical practices themselves were
inadequate or non-professional. The 4 links are as follow:

http://www.nupge.ca/news_2000/News%20May/n12my00a.htm
http://www.cato.org/dailys/07-24-04.html
http://www.utoronto.ca/hpme/dhr/pdf/Barer-Lewis.pdf

http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman...oysplight.html

Yes, I saw all of them.

None of them say that Canadians are dying waiting for health
care.
=======================
ROTFLMAO You really are that stupid, aren't you? The very first
first one says otherwise right in the headline of the article.
Are you really so set on being the worlds worst liar that you
continue even when the evidence is in front of you?



The main objection to one of the links at the time was
regarding the
Frasier Institute, and its supposed backers, as being
anti-Canadian
medical system. Whether this is true or not, I can not
determine.

The Frasier Institute are a bunch of whackos,
======================
Says the head whacko?


and not a reliable source of
objective information, but even they aren't saying Canadians
are dying waiting for health care.
================
LOL Selective reading there too?



Rick
also offered that there were many other links to support his
claim,
data that came from Canadian universites, labor unions, think
tanks,
that would not supposedly be anti-Canadian. He did not list
any other
specific link that I found.

No, he didn't.
===============
Because fool, you have already shown that if I list a link, you
have some reason not to believe it. I offered you the
face-saving way out by finding your own information. You proved
instead that you wished to remain willfully ignorant.



Regarding your question, unless there is a distinction between
waiting
list, and waiting lines, and irregardless of the credibility
of the
links provided as evidence, I believe that rick did provide
evidence to
support his claim. So my vote is yes, and I believe you KMAN
owe rick a
public apology.

Please provide me with the precise quote from one of his links
where it states that Canadians have in fact died waiting in
line for treatment.
================
Read them fool. Then write them and ask. Afterall, they are
YOUR countrymen. I'm sure they'll give you the info. But, as I
have stated before, you are too afraid to find out the truth.



Now I hope this can bring and end to the acrimony, and I would
note
that though I believe rick provided the evidence, that I
understand
better after reading maybe a hundred post by him that his
style can be
abrasive. My only suggestion is that in the future if you want
to avoid
the abrasion, don't engage him in debate. TnT
TnT

I would suggest that you be more careful in evaluating the
question at hand.

If you saw evidence provided by Rick (or anywhere else) that
Canadians have died waiting in line for treatment, please post
it.
==================
It just was, fool, again. That you wish to ignore it is your
problem!

"rick" wrote in message
k.net...

"KMAN" wrote in message
. ..

"Tinkerntom

snip...

what this is about.

Have you seen rick provide any evidence to support a claim that
Canadians
are dying in waiting lines for health care?

[] Yes
[] No

Ok I'll try to answer you! Last night, I spent several hours going
through the archives of this discussion, reading several hundred post
by Kman, frtwz, Mike D, Wilko, Scott W, and of course our good friend
rick. I do not know whether rick will abide by my arbitration in this
matter though so I am not sure whether I should wait for him to agree.
However, he did say in one of his post even this AM, that he stands by
his record, and that he posted as he claims evidence of Canadians dying
while on wait list for medical procedures and Tests. I am assuming also
that being on a wait list is the same thing as being in a wait line. If
they are different, I did not find any claim by rick that people are
dying in an actual line while waiting, or evidence to support any such
claim.

Right. That's all I am saying.

You should have simply ticked "yes" instead of babbling on, but oh well.

He has not provided any evidence that Canadians are dying waiting in line
(or waiting on a list) for health care.
==============
Yes, I have.

Post it.

However, on 2/20 at 9:32 Rick presented 4 links as evidence to support
his claim that Canadians were dying while on wait list, and receiving
late, slow, and inadequate medical procedures. That if a Canadian had
the funding, that he could go to the USA and receive prompt medical
attention, and that in Canada, such outsoursing was considered illegal,
and subject to a substantial penalty. Rick was not comparing the
advantages or disadvantages of the two systems, nor even saying that
the American system was good at all. He was only commenting on the
Canadian system that resulted in long wait times for certain procedures

In certain rare circumstances, particularly in geographically isolated
areas, or for unique specialty tests, yes.
======================
And treatment. Even YOU have said Canadians wait for treatment.

Of course. People wait for treatment in every health care system. That's why
all hospitals have waiting rooms.

and tests that at times resulted in people dying before they could
receive the medical attention that could have served to save their
lives.

There is no evidence of that.
==============
Yes, there is.

Post it.

He was not saying that once the people actually received the
medical attention, that the medical practices themselves were
inadequate or non-professional. The 4 links are as follow:

http://www.nupge.ca/news_2000/News%20May/n12my00a.htm
http://www.cato.org/dailys/07-24-04.html
http://www.utoronto.ca/hpme/dhr/pdf/Barer-Lewis.pdf

http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman...oysplight.html

Yes, I saw all of them.

None of them say that Canadians are dying waiting for health care.
=======================
ROTFLMAO You really are that stupid, aren't you? The very first first
one says otherwise right in the headline of the article. Are you really so
set on being the worlds worst liar that you continue even when the
evidence is in front of you?

That's a shoddy article by a union looking for more money.

Is there a coroner's report that says Mr X. died because he was waiting?

How can one crappy article by a union looking for money be considered
evidence?

The main objection to one of the links at the time was regarding the
Frasier Institute, and its supposed backers, as being anti-Canadian
medical system. Whether this is true or not, I can not determine.

The Frasier Institute are a bunch of whackos,
======================
Says the head whacko?

No, that would be Michael Walker.

and not a reliable source of
objective information, but even they aren't saying Canadians are dying
waiting for health care.
================
LOL Selective reading there too?

Post the proof using your own superior reading skills.



Rick
also offered that there were many other links to support his claim,
data that came from Canadian universites, labor unions, think tanks,
that would not supposedly be anti-Canadian. He did not list any other
specific link that I found.

No, he didn't.
===============
Because fool, you have already shown that if I list a link, you have some
reason not to believe it. I offered you the face-saving way out by
finding your own information. You proved instead that you wished to
remain willfully ignorant.

Nothing in your link proves that Canadians are dying because they are
waiting in health care lines.

Regarding your question, unless there is a distinction between waiting
list, and waiting lines, and irregardless of the credibility of the
links provided as evidence, I believe that rick did provide evidence to
support his claim. So my vote is yes, and I believe you KMAN owe rick a
public apology.

Please provide me with the precise quote from one of his links where it
states that Canadians have in fact died waiting in line for treatment.
================
Read them fool. Then write them and ask. Afterall, they are YOUR
countrymen. I'm sure they'll give you the info. But, as I have stated
before, you are too afraid to find out the truth.

What kind of an ass would refuse to simply post the evidence if it existed?

You are a liar and a coward.



Now I hope this can bring and end to the acrimony, and I would note
that though I believe rick provided the evidence, that I understand
better after reading maybe a hundred post by him that his style can be
abrasive. My only suggestion is that in the future if you want to avoid
the abrasion, don't engage him in debate. TnT
TnT

I would suggest that you be more careful in evaluating the question at
hand.

If you saw evidence provided by Rick (or anywhere else) that Canadians
have died waiting in line for treatment, please post it.
==================
It just was, fool, again. That you wish to ignore it is your problem!

It's not there.

"KMAN" wrote in message
. ..

"rick" wrote in message
k.net...

"KMAN" wrote in message
. ..

"Tinkerntom


snip...

He has not provided any evidence that Canadians are dying
waiting in line (or waiting on a list) for health care.
==============
Yes, I have.

Post it.
====================
Already been done, fool. Now, more than once...



However, on 2/20 at 9:32 Rick presented 4 links as evidence
to support
his claim that Canadians were dying while on wait list, and
receiving
late, slow, and inadequate medical procedures. That if a
Canadian had
the funding, that he could go to the USA and receive prompt
medical
attention, and that in Canada, such outsoursing was
considered illegal,
and subject to a substantial penalty. Rick was not comparing
the
advantages or disadvantages of the two systems, nor even
saying that
the American system was good at all. He was only commenting
on the
Canadian system that resulted in long wait times for certain
procedures

In certain rare circumstances, particularly in geographically
isolated areas, or for unique specialty tests, yes.
======================
And treatment. Even YOU have said Canadians wait for
treatment.

Of course. People wait for treatment in every health care
system. That's why all hospitals have waiting rooms.
====================
LOL We aren't talking about people waiting in waiting rooms,
we're talking about weeks, months, and years of wait for
treatment. BUT, if you want to discuss waiting room problems in
Canada, there are those problems too.



and tests that at times resulted in people dying before they
could
receive the medical attention that could have served to save
their
lives.

There is no evidence of that.
==============
Yes, there is.

Post it.
====================
Already been done, fool. Now, more than once...



He was not saying that once the people actually received the
medical attention, that the medical practices themselves
were
inadequate or non-professional. The 4 links are as follow:

http://www.nupge.ca/news_2000/News%20May/n12my00a.htm
http://www.cato.org/dailys/07-24-04.html
http://www.utoronto.ca/hpme/dhr/pdf/Barer-Lewis.pdf

http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman...oysplight.html

Yes, I saw all of them.

None of them say that Canadians are dying waiting for health
care.
=======================
ROTFLMAO You really are that stupid, aren't you? The very
first first one says otherwise right in the headline of the
article. Are you really so set on being the worlds worst liar
that you continue even when the evidence is in front of you?

That's a shoddy article by a union looking for more money.
==================
LOL See? that's why I told you to look for yourself, fool.
First, the problem is a right-wing US wanna-be site, now it's a
union being too socialist! You really don't want to see the
truth, do you fool?



Is there a coroner's report that says Mr X. died because he was
waiting?
=====================
Read the sites fool. As you know, patient info is not released.
Plus, the Canadian health care system has been voted the most
secretive, non-responsive group by Canadian journalists.


How can one crappy article by a union looking for money be
considered evidence?
================
Why are you relying then on what I posted. Go get the info
yourself. Try any nimber of other sources, universities, union,
Canadian medical journal...


The main objection to one of the links at the time was
regarding the
Frasier Institute, and its supposed backers, as being
anti-Canadian
medical system. Whether this is true or not, I can not
determine.

The Frasier Institute are a bunch of whackos,
======================
Says the head whacko?

No, that would be Michael Walker.
=================
No, that's you,fool. You keep proving it with all your lies and
denial.



and not a reliable source of
objective information, but even they aren't saying Canadians
are dying waiting for health care.
================
LOL Selective reading there too?

Post the proof using your own superior reading skills.
====================
Already been done, fool. Now, more than once...





Rick
also offered that there were many other links to support his
claim,
data that came from Canadian universites, labor unions,
think tanks,
that would not supposedly be anti-Canadian. He did not list
any other
specific link that I found.

No, he didn't.
===============
Because fool, you have already shown that if I list a link,
you have some reason not to believe it. I offered you the
face-saving way out by finding your own information. You
proved instead that you wished to remain willfully ignorant.

Nothing in your link proves that Canadians are dying because
they are waiting in health care lines.
================
Yep, there was. But don't rely on my posts fool. Look up the
facts for yourself. But then, you've already proven you are too
afraid to do that.


Regarding your question, unless there is a distinction
between waiting
list, and waiting lines, and irregardless of the credibility
of the
links provided as evidence, I believe that rick did provide
evidence to
support his claim. So my vote is yes, and I believe you KMAN
owe rick a
public apology.

Please provide me with the precise quote from one of his
links where it states that Canadians have in fact died
waiting in line for treatment.
================
Read them fool. Then write them and ask. Afterall, they are
YOUR countrymen. I'm sure they'll give you the info. But, as
I have stated before, you are too afraid to find out the
truth.

What kind of an ass would refuse to simply post the evidence if
it existed?
==================
ROTFLMAO I'm giving you the chance to find it for yourself,
fool. That way you can't claim that my sites are too right-wing.
Oh, wait, too left-wing. Oh, wait, too middle of the road. Oh,
wait, too truthful for your delusions.



You are a liar and a coward.
==================
Keep telling yourself that fool. maybe someday you'll even
believe it. All you've managed to do is prove that yopu are
afraid of the facts. Otherwise, you'd have refuted the sites I
have posted. Youi haven't, and you can't.





Now I hope this can bring and end to the acrimony, and I
would note
that though I believe rick provided the evidence, that I
understand
better after reading maybe a hundred post by him that his
style can be
abrasive. My only suggestion is that in the future if you
want to avoid
the abrasion, don't engage him in debate. TnT
TnT

I would suggest that you be more careful in evaluating the
question at hand.

If you saw evidence provided by Rick (or anywhere else) that
Canadians have died waiting in line for treatment, please
post it.
==================
It just was, fool, again. That you wish to ignore it is your
problem!

It's not there.
==================
Yep, head-in-the-sand. What a loony.

in article , rick at
wrote on 2/28/05 6:49 PM:

snip

Is there a coroner's report that says Mr X. died because he was
waiting?
=====================
Read the sites fool. As you know, patient info is not released.

There are stories about health care issues in the media all the time.
Something as serious as someone dying while waiting for care would
definitely make the front page.

Plus, the Canadian health care system has been voted the most
secretive, non-responsive group by Canadian journalists.

I guess that doesn't say much for our spy agency.

How can one crappy article by a union looking for money be
considered evidence?
================
Why are you relying then on what I posted. Go get the info
yourself. Try any nimber of other sources, universities, union,
Canadian medical journal...

The info does not exist. If someone died waiting for health care it would be
a major scandal with an inquest and a coroner's report.

The type of trash you are quoting is nothing but political posturing by
groups using weasel words (just like you).

"KMAN" wrote in message
...
in article ,
rick at
wrote on 2/28/05 6:49 PM:

snip

Is there a coroner's report that says Mr X. died because he
was
waiting?
=====================
Read the sites fool. As you know, patient info is not
released.

There are stories about health care issues in the media all the
time.
Something as serious as someone dying while waiting for care
would
definitely make the front page.
==================
It has before fool. You're just too stupid, and too big a liar
to look them up.



Plus, the Canadian health care system has been voted the most
secretive, non-responsive group by Canadian journalists.

I guess that doesn't say much for our spy agency.
=====================
LOL What spy agency would that be, fool? We're talking about
your own media blasting your own medical care system. Too bad
you're too stupid to understand that, eh liar?



How can one crappy article by a union looking for money be
considered evidence?
================
Why are you relying then on what I posted. Go get the info
yourself. Try any nimber of other sources, universities,
union,
Canadian medical journal...

The info does not exist. If someone died waiting for health
care it would be
a major scandal with an inquest and a coroner's report.
==========================
Then you'd better start reading them fool. Continuing to lie
about it just prove that much more how desperate you are in your
chest-thumping.



The type of trash you are quoting is nothing but political
posturing by
groups using weasel words (just like you).
======================
Really? Then you should be able to find canadian medical journal
articles that refute those claims easily, eh liar. Opps, the
Canadian medical journal supports the other position, imagine
that, eh liar?

"rick" wrote in message
k.net...

"KMAN" wrote in message
...
in article , rick at
wrote on 2/28/05 6:49 PM:

snip

Is there a coroner's report that says Mr X. died because he was
waiting?
=====================
Read the sites fool. As you know, patient info is not released.

There are stories about health care issues in the media all the time.
Something as serious as someone dying while waiting for care would
definitely make the front page.
==================
It has before fool.

Never. Prove it.

"KMAN" wrote in message
. ..

"rick" wrote in message
k.net...

"KMAN" wrote in message
...
in article
, rick at
wrote on 2/28/05 6:49 PM:

snip

Is there a coroner's report that says Mr X. died because he
was
waiting?
=====================
Read the sites fool. As you know, patient info is not
released.

There are stories about health care issues in the media all
the time.
Something as serious as someone dying while waiting for care
would
definitely make the front page.
==================
It has before fool.

Never. Prove it.
=======================
Yes, fool. Try some researchof you own. You made the claim.