KMAN wrote:
"Tinkerntom" wrote in message
oups.com...

KMAN wrote:
"Tinkerntom" wrote in message
oups.com...

KMAN wrote:
in article , KMAN at
wrote on 2/28/05 12:59 AM:

in article
,
Tinkerntom
at wrote on 2/28/05 12:40 AM:


KMAN wrote:
in article
et,
rick
at
wrote on 2/27/05 5:10 PM:


"KMAN" wrote in message
...
in article
,
Tinkerntom

snip..



Tinkerntom, I'm actually surprised that a man of your
high
moral stands has
not jumped in to criticize rick for being a liar and a
coward.
Why is that?
================
MAybe for the simple reason that I have not lied. Of
course,
you
cannot make the same claim.
Why not at least back up one of your claims, fool?

If just one Canadian died in a waiting line for health care
it
would
be a
national scandal featured on the front page of every
newspaper
and
the lead
story of every television and readio news program. It
hasn't
happened
rick.
You made it up. You are a liar. And a coward for refusing
to
admit
it.

To his credit, Tinkerntom has added his name to the list of
those
who
have
never seen you prove your claim.

I Did? Where did I say such a thing? TnT

Eh?

Sorry, my mistake. When I first read...

"I agree, that you claim, that he made the claim, and failed
to
support
it. No mystery here after watching this squabble for the last
week!"

...I missed out on the weasel words you threw in there. I
guess
you
really
are afraid of rick!

While you are still up, Tinkerntom, let me see if you are not
too
big
of a
coward to give a straight answer.

Have you seen rick provide any evidence to support a claim that
Canadians
are dying in waiting lines for health care?

[] Yes

[] No

What if I vote, and I get a hanging chad? Do we call Katherine
Harris,
Jeb Bush, Florida Supreme Ct. or US Supreme Ct. to get this mess
straightened out? TnT

Coward!

So what must I do to get off your Coward list, I'm waiting to hear?
TnT

Answer the question. It's not like I suddenly gave you a label with
no
foundation, Tinkerntom. You know exactly what this is about.

Have you seen rick provide any evidence to support a claim that
Canadians
are dying in waiting lines for health care?

[] Yes
[] No

Ok I'll try to answer you! Last night, I spent several hours going
through the archives of this discussion, reading several hundred post
by Kman, frtwz, Mike D, Wilko, Scott W, and of course our good friend
rick. I do not know whether rick will abide by my arbitration in this
matter though so I am not sure whether I should wait for him to agree.
However, he did say in one of his post even this AM, that he stands by
his record, and that he posted as he claims evidence of Canadians dying
while on wait list for medical procedures and Tests. I am assuming also
that being on a wait list is the same thing as being in a wait line. If
they are different, I did not find any claim by rick that people are
dying in an actual line while waiting, or evidence to support any such
claim.

However, on 2/20 at 9:32 Rick presented 4 links as evidence to support
his claim that Canadians were dying while on wait list, and receiving
late, slow, and inadequate medical procedures. That if a Canadian had
the funding, that he could go to the USA and receive prompt medical
attention, and that in Canada, such outsoursing was considered illegal,
and subject to a substantial penalty. Rick was not comparing the
advantages or disadvantages of the two systems, nor even saying that
the American system was good at all. He was only commenting on the
Canadian system that resulted in long wait times for certain procedures
and tests that at times resulted in people dying before they could
receive the medical attention that could have served to save their
lives. He was not saying that once the people actually received the
medical attention, that the medical practices themselves were
inadequate or non-professional. The 4 links are as follow:

http://www.nupge.ca/news_2000/News%20May/n12my00a.htm
http://www.cato.org/dailys/07-24-04.html
http://www.utoronto.ca/hpme/dhr/pdf/Barer-Lewis.pdf

http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman...oysplight.html

The main objection to one of the links at the time was regarding the
Frasier Institute, and its supposed backers, as being anti-Canadian
medical system. Whether this is true or not, I can not determine. Rick
also offered that there were many other links to support his claim,
data that came from Canadian universites, labor unions, think tanks,
that would not supposedly be anti-Canadian. He did not list any other
specific link that I found.

Regarding your question, unless there is a distinction between waiting
list, and waiting lines, and irregardless of the credibility of the
links provided as evidence, I believe that rick did provide evidence to
support his claim. So my vote is yes, and I believe you KMAN owe rick a
public apology.

Now I hope this can bring and end to the acrimony, and I would note
that though I believe rick provided the evidence, that I understand
better after reading maybe a hundred post by him that his style can be
abrasive. My only suggestion is that in the future if you want to avoid
the abrasion, don't engage him in debate. TnT
TnT