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"Tinkerntom" wrote in message oups.com... KMAN wrote: in article , KMAN at wrote on 2/28/05 12:59 AM: in article , Tinkerntom at wrote on 2/28/05 12:40 AM: KMAN wrote: in article et, rick at wrote on 2/27/05 5:10 PM: "KMAN" wrote in message ... in article , Tinkerntom snip.. Tinkerntom, I'm actually surprised that a man of your high moral stands has not jumped in to criticize rick for being a liar and a coward. Why is that? ================ MAybe for the simple reason that I have not lied. Of course, you cannot make the same claim. Why not at least back up one of your claims, fool? If just one Canadian died in a waiting line for health care it would be a national scandal featured on the front page of every newspaper and the lead story of every television and readio news program. It hasn't happened rick. You made it up. You are a liar. And a coward for refusing to admit it. To his credit, Tinkerntom has added his name to the list of those who have never seen you prove your claim. I Did? Where did I say such a thing? TnT Eh? Sorry, my mistake. When I first read... "I agree, that you claim, that he made the claim, and failed to support it. No mystery here after watching this squabble for the last week!" ...I missed out on the weasel words you threw in there. I guess you really are afraid of rick! While you are still up, Tinkerntom, let me see if you are not too big of a coward to give a straight answer. Have you seen rick provide any evidence to support a claim that Canadians are dying in waiting lines for health care? [] Yes [] No What if I vote, and I get a hanging chad? Do we call Katherine Harris, Jeb Bush, Florida Supreme Ct. or US Supreme Ct. to get this mess straightened out? TnT Coward! |
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#2
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"KMAN" wrote in message .. . snip... Coward! ============= Projection, fool. You have proven yourself as the coward here. |
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#4
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"Tinkerntom" wrote in message oups.com... KMAN wrote: "Tinkerntom" wrote in message oups.com... KMAN wrote: in article , KMAN at wrote on 2/28/05 12:59 AM: in article , Tinkerntom at wrote on 2/28/05 12:40 AM: KMAN wrote: in article et, rick at wrote on 2/27/05 5:10 PM: "KMAN" wrote in message ... in article , Tinkerntom snip.. Tinkerntom, I'm actually surprised that a man of your high moral stands has not jumped in to criticize rick for being a liar and a coward. Why is that? ================ MAybe for the simple reason that I have not lied. Of course, you cannot make the same claim. Why not at least back up one of your claims, fool? If just one Canadian died in a waiting line for health care it would be a national scandal featured on the front page of every newspaper and the lead story of every television and readio news program. It hasn't happened rick. You made it up. You are a liar. And a coward for refusing to admit it. To his credit, Tinkerntom has added his name to the list of those who have never seen you prove your claim. I Did? Where did I say such a thing? TnT Eh? Sorry, my mistake. When I first read... "I agree, that you claim, that he made the claim, and failed to support it. No mystery here after watching this squabble for the last week!" ...I missed out on the weasel words you threw in there. I guess you really are afraid of rick! While you are still up, Tinkerntom, let me see if you are not too big of a coward to give a straight answer. Have you seen rick provide any evidence to support a claim that Canadians are dying in waiting lines for health care? [] Yes [] No What if I vote, and I get a hanging chad? Do we call Katherine Harris, Jeb Bush, Florida Supreme Ct. or US Supreme Ct. to get this mess straightened out? TnT Coward! So what must I do to get off your Coward list, I'm waiting to hear? TnT Answer the question. It's not like I suddenly gave you a label with no foundation, Tinkerntom. You know exactly what this is about. Have you seen rick provide any evidence to support a claim that Canadians are dying in waiting lines for health care? [] Yes [] No |
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#5
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KMAN wrote: "Tinkerntom" wrote in message oups.com... KMAN wrote: "Tinkerntom" wrote in message oups.com... KMAN wrote: in article , KMAN at wrote on 2/28/05 12:59 AM: in article , Tinkerntom at wrote on 2/28/05 12:40 AM: KMAN wrote: in article et, rick at wrote on 2/27/05 5:10 PM: "KMAN" wrote in message ... in article , Tinkerntom snip.. Tinkerntom, I'm actually surprised that a man of your high moral stands has not jumped in to criticize rick for being a liar and a coward. Why is that? ================ MAybe for the simple reason that I have not lied. Of course, you cannot make the same claim. Why not at least back up one of your claims, fool? If just one Canadian died in a waiting line for health care it would be a national scandal featured on the front page of every newspaper and the lead story of every television and readio news program. It hasn't happened rick. You made it up. You are a liar. And a coward for refusing to admit it. To his credit, Tinkerntom has added his name to the list of those who have never seen you prove your claim. I Did? Where did I say such a thing? TnT Eh? Sorry, my mistake. When I first read... "I agree, that you claim, that he made the claim, and failed to support it. No mystery here after watching this squabble for the last week!" ...I missed out on the weasel words you threw in there. I guess you really are afraid of rick! While you are still up, Tinkerntom, let me see if you are not too big of a coward to give a straight answer. Have you seen rick provide any evidence to support a claim that Canadians are dying in waiting lines for health care? [] Yes [] No What if I vote, and I get a hanging chad? Do we call Katherine Harris, Jeb Bush, Florida Supreme Ct. or US Supreme Ct. to get this mess straightened out? TnT Coward! So what must I do to get off your Coward list, I'm waiting to hear? TnT Answer the question. It's not like I suddenly gave you a label with no foundation, Tinkerntom. You know exactly what this is about. Have you seen rick provide any evidence to support a claim that Canadians are dying in waiting lines for health care? [] Yes [] No Ok I'll try to answer you! Last night, I spent several hours going through the archives of this discussion, reading several hundred post by Kman, frtwz, Mike D, Wilko, Scott W, and of course our good friend rick. I do not know whether rick will abide by my arbitration in this matter though so I am not sure whether I should wait for him to agree. However, he did say in one of his post even this AM, that he stands by his record, and that he posted as he claims evidence of Canadians dying while on wait list for medical procedures and Tests. I am assuming also that being on a wait list is the same thing as being in a wait line. If they are different, I did not find any claim by rick that people are dying in an actual line while waiting, or evidence to support any such claim. However, on 2/20 at 9:32 Rick presented 4 links as evidence to support his claim that Canadians were dying while on wait list, and receiving late, slow, and inadequate medical procedures. That if a Canadian had the funding, that he could go to the USA and receive prompt medical attention, and that in Canada, such outsoursing was considered illegal, and subject to a substantial penalty. Rick was not comparing the advantages or disadvantages of the two systems, nor even saying that the American system was good at all. He was only commenting on the Canadian system that resulted in long wait times for certain procedures and tests that at times resulted in people dying before they could receive the medical attention that could have served to save their lives. He was not saying that once the people actually received the medical attention, that the medical practices themselves were inadequate or non-professional. The 4 links are as follow: http://www.nupge.ca/news_2000/News%20May/n12my00a.htm http://www.cato.org/dailys/07-24-04.html http://www.utoronto.ca/hpme/dhr/pdf/Barer-Lewis.pdf http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman...oysplight.html The main objection to one of the links at the time was regarding the Frasier Institute, and its supposed backers, as being anti-Canadian medical system. Whether this is true or not, I can not determine. Rick also offered that there were many other links to support his claim, data that came from Canadian universites, labor unions, think tanks, that would not supposedly be anti-Canadian. He did not list any other specific link that I found. Regarding your question, unless there is a distinction between waiting list, and waiting lines, and irregardless of the credibility of the links provided as evidence, I believe that rick did provide evidence to support his claim. So my vote is yes, and I believe you KMAN owe rick a public apology. Now I hope this can bring and end to the acrimony, and I would note that though I believe rick provided the evidence, that I understand better after reading maybe a hundred post by him that his style can be abrasive. My only suggestion is that in the future if you want to avoid the abrasion, don't engage him in debate. TnT TnT |
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#6
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"Tinkerntom" wrote in message oups.com... KMAN wrote: "Tinkerntom" wrote in message oups.com... KMAN wrote: "Tinkerntom" wrote in message oups.com... KMAN wrote: in article , KMAN at wrote on 2/28/05 12:59 AM: in article , Tinkerntom at wrote on 2/28/05 12:40 AM: KMAN wrote: in article et, rick at wrote on 2/27/05 5:10 PM: "KMAN" wrote in message ... in article , Tinkerntom snip.. Tinkerntom, I'm actually surprised that a man of your high moral stands has not jumped in to criticize rick for being a liar and a coward. Why is that? ================ MAybe for the simple reason that I have not lied. Of course, you cannot make the same claim. Why not at least back up one of your claims, fool? If just one Canadian died in a waiting line for health care it would be a national scandal featured on the front page of every newspaper and the lead story of every television and readio news program. It hasn't happened rick. You made it up. You are a liar. And a coward for refusing to admit it. To his credit, Tinkerntom has added his name to the list of those who have never seen you prove your claim. I Did? Where did I say such a thing? TnT Eh? Sorry, my mistake. When I first read... "I agree, that you claim, that he made the claim, and failed to support it. No mystery here after watching this squabble for the last week!" ...I missed out on the weasel words you threw in there. I guess you really are afraid of rick! While you are still up, Tinkerntom, let me see if you are not too big of a coward to give a straight answer. Have you seen rick provide any evidence to support a claim that Canadians are dying in waiting lines for health care? [] Yes [] No What if I vote, and I get a hanging chad? Do we call Katherine Harris, Jeb Bush, Florida Supreme Ct. or US Supreme Ct. to get this mess straightened out? TnT Coward! So what must I do to get off your Coward list, I'm waiting to hear? TnT Answer the question. It's not like I suddenly gave you a label with no foundation, Tinkerntom. You know exactly what this is about. Have you seen rick provide any evidence to support a claim that Canadians are dying in waiting lines for health care? [] Yes [] No Ok I'll try to answer you! Last night, I spent several hours going through the archives of this discussion, reading several hundred post by Kman, frtwz, Mike D, Wilko, Scott W, and of course our good friend rick. I do not know whether rick will abide by my arbitration in this matter though so I am not sure whether I should wait for him to agree. However, he did say in one of his post even this AM, that he stands by his record, and that he posted as he claims evidence of Canadians dying while on wait list for medical procedures and Tests. I am assuming also that being on a wait list is the same thing as being in a wait line. If they are different, I did not find any claim by rick that people are dying in an actual line while waiting, or evidence to support any such claim. Right. That's all I am saying. You should have simply ticked "yes" instead of babbling on, but oh well. He has not provided any evidence that Canadians are dying waiting in line (or waiting on a list) for health care. However, on 2/20 at 9:32 Rick presented 4 links as evidence to support his claim that Canadians were dying while on wait list, and receiving late, slow, and inadequate medical procedures. That if a Canadian had the funding, that he could go to the USA and receive prompt medical attention, and that in Canada, such outsoursing was considered illegal, and subject to a substantial penalty. Rick was not comparing the advantages or disadvantages of the two systems, nor even saying that the American system was good at all. He was only commenting on the Canadian system that resulted in long wait times for certain procedures In certain rare circumstances, particularly in geographically isolated areas, or for unique specialty tests, yes. and tests that at times resulted in people dying before they could receive the medical attention that could have served to save their lives. There is no evidence of that. He was not saying that once the people actually received the medical attention, that the medical practices themselves were inadequate or non-professional. The 4 links are as follow: http://www.nupge.ca/news_2000/News%20May/n12my00a.htm http://www.cato.org/dailys/07-24-04.html http://www.utoronto.ca/hpme/dhr/pdf/Barer-Lewis.pdf http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman...oysplight.html Yes, I saw all of them. None of them say that Canadians are dying waiting for health care. The main objection to one of the links at the time was regarding the Frasier Institute, and its supposed backers, as being anti-Canadian medical system. Whether this is true or not, I can not determine. The Frasier Institute are a bunch of whackos, and not a reliable source of objective information, but even they aren't saying Canadians are dying waiting for health care. Rick also offered that there were many other links to support his claim, data that came from Canadian universites, labor unions, think tanks, that would not supposedly be anti-Canadian. He did not list any other specific link that I found. No, he didn't. Regarding your question, unless there is a distinction between waiting list, and waiting lines, and irregardless of the credibility of the links provided as evidence, I believe that rick did provide evidence to support his claim. So my vote is yes, and I believe you KMAN owe rick a public apology. Please provide me with the precise quote from one of his links where it states that Canadians have in fact died waiting in line for treatment. Now I hope this can bring and end to the acrimony, and I would note that though I believe rick provided the evidence, that I understand better after reading maybe a hundred post by him that his style can be abrasive. My only suggestion is that in the future if you want to avoid the abrasion, don't engage him in debate. TnT TnT I would suggest that you be more careful in evaluating the question at hand. If you saw evidence provided by Rick (or anywhere else) that Canadians have died waiting in line for treatment, please post it. |
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#7
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"KMAN" wrote in message . .. "Tinkerntom snip... what this is about. Have you seen rick provide any evidence to support a claim that Canadians are dying in waiting lines for health care? [] Yes [] No Ok I'll try to answer you! Last night, I spent several hours going through the archives of this discussion, reading several hundred post by Kman, frtwz, Mike D, Wilko, Scott W, and of course our good friend rick. I do not know whether rick will abide by my arbitration in this matter though so I am not sure whether I should wait for him to agree. However, he did say in one of his post even this AM, that he stands by his record, and that he posted as he claims evidence of Canadians dying while on wait list for medical procedures and Tests. I am assuming also that being on a wait list is the same thing as being in a wait line. If they are different, I did not find any claim by rick that people are dying in an actual line while waiting, or evidence to support any such claim. Right. That's all I am saying. You should have simply ticked "yes" instead of babbling on, but oh well. He has not provided any evidence that Canadians are dying waiting in line (or waiting on a list) for health care. ============== Yes, I have. However, on 2/20 at 9:32 Rick presented 4 links as evidence to support his claim that Canadians were dying while on wait list, and receiving late, slow, and inadequate medical procedures. That if a Canadian had the funding, that he could go to the USA and receive prompt medical attention, and that in Canada, such outsoursing was considered illegal, and subject to a substantial penalty. Rick was not comparing the advantages or disadvantages of the two systems, nor even saying that the American system was good at all. He was only commenting on the Canadian system that resulted in long wait times for certain procedures In certain rare circumstances, particularly in geographically isolated areas, or for unique specialty tests, yes. ====================== And treatment. Even YOU have said Canadians wait for treatment. and tests that at times resulted in people dying before they could receive the medical attention that could have served to save their lives. There is no evidence of that. ============== Yes, there is. He was not saying that once the people actually received the medical attention, that the medical practices themselves were inadequate or non-professional. The 4 links are as follow: http://www.nupge.ca/news_2000/News%20May/n12my00a.htm http://www.cato.org/dailys/07-24-04.html http://www.utoronto.ca/hpme/dhr/pdf/Barer-Lewis.pdf http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman...oysplight.html Yes, I saw all of them. None of them say that Canadians are dying waiting for health care. ======================= ROTFLMAO You really are that stupid, aren't you? The very first first one says otherwise right in the headline of the article. Are you really so set on being the worlds worst liar that you continue even when the evidence is in front of you? The main objection to one of the links at the time was regarding the Frasier Institute, and its supposed backers, as being anti-Canadian medical system. Whether this is true or not, I can not determine. The Frasier Institute are a bunch of whackos, ====================== Says the head whacko? and not a reliable source of objective information, but even they aren't saying Canadians are dying waiting for health care. ================ LOL Selective reading there too? Rick also offered that there were many other links to support his claim, data that came from Canadian universites, labor unions, think tanks, that would not supposedly be anti-Canadian. He did not list any other specific link that I found. No, he didn't. =============== Because fool, you have already shown that if I list a link, you have some reason not to believe it. I offered you the face-saving way out by finding your own information. You proved instead that you wished to remain willfully ignorant. Regarding your question, unless there is a distinction between waiting list, and waiting lines, and irregardless of the credibility of the links provided as evidence, I believe that rick did provide evidence to support his claim. So my vote is yes, and I believe you KMAN owe rick a public apology. Please provide me with the precise quote from one of his links where it states that Canadians have in fact died waiting in line for treatment. ================ Read them fool. Then write them and ask. Afterall, they are YOUR countrymen. I'm sure they'll give you the info. But, as I have stated before, you are too afraid to find out the truth. Now I hope this can bring and end to the acrimony, and I would note that though I believe rick provided the evidence, that I understand better after reading maybe a hundred post by him that his style can be abrasive. My only suggestion is that in the future if you want to avoid the abrasion, don't engage him in debate. TnT TnT I would suggest that you be more careful in evaluating the question at hand. If you saw evidence provided by Rick (or anywhere else) that Canadians have died waiting in line for treatment, please post it. ================== It just was, fool, again. That you wish to ignore it is your problem! |
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#8
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"rick" wrote in message k.net... "KMAN" wrote in message . .. "Tinkerntom snip... what this is about. Have you seen rick provide any evidence to support a claim that Canadians are dying in waiting lines for health care? [] Yes [] No Ok I'll try to answer you! Last night, I spent several hours going through the archives of this discussion, reading several hundred post by Kman, frtwz, Mike D, Wilko, Scott W, and of course our good friend rick. I do not know whether rick will abide by my arbitration in this matter though so I am not sure whether I should wait for him to agree. However, he did say in one of his post even this AM, that he stands by his record, and that he posted as he claims evidence of Canadians dying while on wait list for medical procedures and Tests. I am assuming also that being on a wait list is the same thing as being in a wait line. If they are different, I did not find any claim by rick that people are dying in an actual line while waiting, or evidence to support any such claim. Right. That's all I am saying. You should have simply ticked "yes" instead of babbling on, but oh well. He has not provided any evidence that Canadians are dying waiting in line (or waiting on a list) for health care. ============== Yes, I have. Post it. However, on 2/20 at 9:32 Rick presented 4 links as evidence to support his claim that Canadians were dying while on wait list, and receiving late, slow, and inadequate medical procedures. That if a Canadian had the funding, that he could go to the USA and receive prompt medical attention, and that in Canada, such outsoursing was considered illegal, and subject to a substantial penalty. Rick was not comparing the advantages or disadvantages of the two systems, nor even saying that the American system was good at all. He was only commenting on the Canadian system that resulted in long wait times for certain procedures In certain rare circumstances, particularly in geographically isolated areas, or for unique specialty tests, yes. ====================== And treatment. Even YOU have said Canadians wait for treatment. Of course. People wait for treatment in every health care system. That's why all hospitals have waiting rooms. and tests that at times resulted in people dying before they could receive the medical attention that could have served to save their lives. There is no evidence of that. ============== Yes, there is. Post it. He was not saying that once the people actually received the medical attention, that the medical practices themselves were inadequate or non-professional. The 4 links are as follow: http://www.nupge.ca/news_2000/News%20May/n12my00a.htm http://www.cato.org/dailys/07-24-04.html http://www.utoronto.ca/hpme/dhr/pdf/Barer-Lewis.pdf http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman...oysplight.html Yes, I saw all of them. None of them say that Canadians are dying waiting for health care. ======================= ROTFLMAO You really are that stupid, aren't you? The very first first one says otherwise right in the headline of the article. Are you really so set on being the worlds worst liar that you continue even when the evidence is in front of you? That's a shoddy article by a union looking for more money. Is there a coroner's report that says Mr X. died because he was waiting? How can one crappy article by a union looking for money be considered evidence? The main objection to one of the links at the time was regarding the Frasier Institute, and its supposed backers, as being anti-Canadian medical system. Whether this is true or not, I can not determine. The Frasier Institute are a bunch of whackos, ====================== Says the head whacko? No, that would be Michael Walker. and not a reliable source of objective information, but even they aren't saying Canadians are dying waiting for health care. ================ LOL Selective reading there too? Post the proof using your own superior reading skills. Rick also offered that there were many other links to support his claim, data that came from Canadian universites, labor unions, think tanks, that would not supposedly be anti-Canadian. He did not list any other specific link that I found. No, he didn't. =============== Because fool, you have already shown that if I list a link, you have some reason not to believe it. I offered you the face-saving way out by finding your own information. You proved instead that you wished to remain willfully ignorant. Nothing in your link proves that Canadians are dying because they are waiting in health care lines. Regarding your question, unless there is a distinction between waiting list, and waiting lines, and irregardless of the credibility of the links provided as evidence, I believe that rick did provide evidence to support his claim. So my vote is yes, and I believe you KMAN owe rick a public apology. Please provide me with the precise quote from one of his links where it states that Canadians have in fact died waiting in line for treatment. ================ Read them fool. Then write them and ask. Afterall, they are YOUR countrymen. I'm sure they'll give you the info. But, as I have stated before, you are too afraid to find out the truth. What kind of an ass would refuse to simply post the evidence if it existed? You are a liar and a coward. Now I hope this can bring and end to the acrimony, and I would note that though I believe rick provided the evidence, that I understand better after reading maybe a hundred post by him that his style can be abrasive. My only suggestion is that in the future if you want to avoid the abrasion, don't engage him in debate. TnT TnT I would suggest that you be more careful in evaluating the question at hand. If you saw evidence provided by Rick (or anywhere else) that Canadians have died waiting in line for treatment, please post it. ================== It just was, fool, again. That you wish to ignore it is your problem! It's not there. |
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#9
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KMAN wrote: "Tinkerntom" wrote in message oups.com... KMAN wrote: "Tinkerntom" wrote in message oups.com... KMAN wrote: "Tinkerntom" wrote in message oups.com... KMAN wrote: in article , KMAN at wrote on 2/28/05 12:59 AM: in article , Tinkerntom at wrote on 2/28/05 12:40 AM: KMAN wrote: in article et, rick at wrote on 2/27/05 5:10 PM: "KMAN" wrote in message ... in article , Tinkerntom snip.. Tinkerntom, I'm actually surprised that a man of your high moral stands has not jumped in to criticize rick for being a liar and a coward. Why is that? ================ MAybe for the simple reason that I have not lied. Of course, you cannot make the same claim. Why not at least back up one of your claims, fool? If just one Canadian died in a waiting line for health care it would be a national scandal featured on the front page of every newspaper and the lead story of every television and readio news program. It hasn't happened rick. You made it up. You are a liar. And a coward for refusing to admit it. To his credit, Tinkerntom has added his name to the list of those who have never seen you prove your claim. I Did? Where did I say such a thing? TnT Eh? Sorry, my mistake. When I first read... "I agree, that you claim, that he made the claim, and failed to support it. No mystery here after watching this squabble for the last week!" ...I missed out on the weasel words you threw in there. I guess you really are afraid of rick! While you are still up, Tinkerntom, let me see if you are not too big of a coward to give a straight answer. Have you seen rick provide any evidence to support a claim that Canadians are dying in waiting lines for health care? [] Yes [] No What if I vote, and I get a hanging chad? Do we call Katherine Harris, Jeb Bush, Florida Supreme Ct. or US Supreme Ct. to get this mess straightened out? TnT Coward! So what must I do to get off your Coward list, I'm waiting to hear? TnT Answer the question. It's not like I suddenly gave you a label with no foundation, Tinkerntom. You know exactly what this is about. Have you seen rick provide any evidence to support a claim that Canadians are dying in waiting lines for health care? [] Yes [] No Ok I'll try to answer you! Last night, I spent several hours going through the archives of this discussion, reading several hundred post by Kman, frtwz, Mike D, Wilko, Scott W, and of course our good friend rick. I do not know whether rick will abide by my arbitration in this matter though so I am not sure whether I should wait for him to agree. However, he did say in one of his post even this AM, that he stands by his record, and that he posted as he claims evidence of Canadians dying while on wait list for medical procedures and Tests. I am assuming also that being on a wait list is the same thing as being in a wait line. If they are different, I did not find any claim by rick that people are dying in an actual line while waiting, or evidence to support any such claim. Right. That's all I am saying. You should have simply ticked "yes" instead of babbling on, but oh well. He has not provided any evidence that Canadians are dying waiting in line (or waiting on a list) for health care. However, on 2/20 at 9:32 Rick presented 4 links as evidence to support his claim that Canadians were dying while on wait list, and receiving late, slow, and inadequate medical procedures. That if a Canadian had the funding, that he could go to the USA and receive prompt medical attention, and that in Canada, such outsoursing was considered illegal, and subject to a substantial penalty. Rick was not comparing the advantages or disadvantages of the two systems, nor even saying that the American system was good at all. He was only commenting on the Canadian system that resulted in long wait times for certain procedures In certain rare circumstances, particularly in geographically isolated areas, or for unique specialty tests, yes. and tests that at times resulted in people dying before they could receive the medical attention that could have served to save their lives. There is no evidence of that. He was not saying that once the people actually received the medical attention, that the medical practices themselves were inadequate or non-professional. The 4 links are as follow: http://www.nupge.ca/news_2000/News%20May/n12my00a.htm http://www.cato.org/dailys/07-24-04.html http://www.utoronto.ca/hpme/dhr/pdf/Barer-Lewis.pdf http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman...oysplight.html Yes, I saw all of them. None of them say that Canadians are dying waiting for health care. The main objection to one of the links at the time was regarding the Frasier Institute, and its supposed backers, as being anti-Canadian medical system. Whether this is true or not, I can not determine. The Frasier Institute are a bunch of whackos, and not a reliable source of objective information, but even they aren't saying Canadians are dying waiting for health care. Rick also offered that there were many other links to support his claim, data that came from Canadian universites, labor unions, think tanks, that would not supposedly be anti-Canadian. He did not list any other specific link that I found. No, he didn't. Regarding your question, unless there is a distinction between waiting list, and waiting lines, and irregardless of the credibility of the links provided as evidence, I believe that rick did provide evidence to support his claim. So my vote is yes, and I believe you KMAN owe rick a public apology. Please provide me with the precise quote from one of his links where it states that Canadians have in fact died waiting in line for treatment. Now I hope this can bring and end to the acrimony, and I would note that though I believe rick provided the evidence, that I understand better after reading maybe a hundred post by him that his style can be abrasive. My only suggestion is that in the future if you want to avoid the abrasion, don't engage him in debate. TnT TnT I would suggest that you be more careful in evaluating the question at hand. If you saw evidence provided by Rick (or anywhere else) that Canadians have died waiting in line for treatment, please post it. KMAN, your question was whether rick posted any evidence, not whether that evidence was valid! I tried to strain out the knats about the lines and lists, because you kept talking about lines, and he talked about lists. His links appear to support what he was saying, and from his perspective were offered as evidence that some Canadian had died while on a wait list for medical test and procedures. Those folks may have died anyway, and maybe not due to being on the wait list which is his implication. His implication may have been beyond the scope of the data provided, and your understanding seems unwilling to consider unfavorable data. Probably both of you are faulted, for your own reasons. I do not see that it was a lack of care on my part answering the question, but on yours asking a poorly framed question. Evidence is submitted in court, tagged and labeled, and added to a case file. It is evidence whether it is good evidence, pertinent or not. You have your evidence, when do we hear your apology? The question of its validity is another issue! TnT |
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in article , Tinkerntom
at wrote on 2/28/05 7:38 PM: KMAN wrote: "Tinkerntom" wrote in message oups.com... KMAN wrote: "Tinkerntom" wrote in message oups.com... KMAN wrote: "Tinkerntom" wrote in message oups.com... KMAN wrote: in article , KMAN at wrote on 2/28/05 12:59 AM: in article , Tinkerntom at wrote on 2/28/05 12:40 AM: KMAN wrote: in article et, rick at wrote on 2/27/05 5:10 PM: "KMAN" wrote in message ... in article , Tinkerntom snip.. Tinkerntom, I'm actually surprised that a man of your high moral stands has not jumped in to criticize rick for being a liar and a coward. Why is that? ================ MAybe for the simple reason that I have not lied. Of course, you cannot make the same claim. Why not at least back up one of your claims, fool? If just one Canadian died in a waiting line for health care it would be a national scandal featured on the front page of every newspaper and the lead story of every television and readio news program. It hasn't happened rick. You made it up. You are a liar. And a coward for refusing to admit it. To his credit, Tinkerntom has added his name to the list of those who have never seen you prove your claim. I Did? Where did I say such a thing? TnT Eh? Sorry, my mistake. When I first read... "I agree, that you claim, that he made the claim, and failed to support it. No mystery here after watching this squabble for the last week!" ...I missed out on the weasel words you threw in there. I guess you really are afraid of rick! While you are still up, Tinkerntom, let me see if you are not too big of a coward to give a straight answer. Have you seen rick provide any evidence to support a claim that Canadians are dying in waiting lines for health care? [] Yes [] No What if I vote, and I get a hanging chad? Do we call Katherine Harris, Jeb Bush, Florida Supreme Ct. or US Supreme Ct. to get this mess straightened out? TnT Coward! So what must I do to get off your Coward list, I'm waiting to hear? TnT Answer the question. It's not like I suddenly gave you a label with no foundation, Tinkerntom. You know exactly what this is about. Have you seen rick provide any evidence to support a claim that Canadians are dying in waiting lines for health care? [] Yes [] No Ok I'll try to answer you! Last night, I spent several hours going through the archives of this discussion, reading several hundred post by Kman, frtwz, Mike D, Wilko, Scott W, and of course our good friend rick. I do not know whether rick will abide by my arbitration in this matter though so I am not sure whether I should wait for him to agree. However, he did say in one of his post even this AM, that he stands by his record, and that he posted as he claims evidence of Canadians dying while on wait list for medical procedures and Tests. I am assuming also that being on a wait list is the same thing as being in a wait line. If they are different, I did not find any claim by rick that people are dying in an actual line while waiting, or evidence to support any such claim. Right. That's all I am saying. You should have simply ticked "yes" instead of babbling on, but oh well. He has not provided any evidence that Canadians are dying waiting in line (or waiting on a list) for health care. However, on 2/20 at 9:32 Rick presented 4 links as evidence to support his claim that Canadians were dying while on wait list, and receiving late, slow, and inadequate medical procedures. That if a Canadian had the funding, that he could go to the USA and receive prompt medical attention, and that in Canada, such outsoursing was considered illegal, and subject to a substantial penalty. Rick was not comparing the advantages or disadvantages of the two systems, nor even saying that the American system was good at all. He was only commenting on the Canadian system that resulted in long wait times for certain procedures In certain rare circumstances, particularly in geographically isolated areas, or for unique specialty tests, yes. and tests that at times resulted in people dying before they could receive the medical attention that could have served to save their lives. There is no evidence of that. He was not saying that once the people actually received the medical attention, that the medical practices themselves were inadequate or non-professional. The 4 links are as follow: http://www.nupge.ca/news_2000/News%20May/n12my00a.htm http://www.cato.org/dailys/07-24-04.html http://www.utoronto.ca/hpme/dhr/pdf/Barer-Lewis.pdf http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman...oysplight.html Yes, I saw all of them. None of them say that Canadians are dying waiting for health care. The main objection to one of the links at the time was regarding the Frasier Institute, and its supposed backers, as being anti-Canadian medical system. Whether this is true or not, I can not determine. The Frasier Institute are a bunch of whackos, and not a reliable source of objective information, but even they aren't saying Canadians are dying waiting for health care. Rick also offered that there were many other links to support his claim, data that came from Canadian universites, labor unions, think tanks, that would not supposedly be anti-Canadian. He did not list any other specific link that I found. No, he didn't. Regarding your question, unless there is a distinction between waiting list, and waiting lines, and irregardless of the credibility of the links provided as evidence, I believe that rick did provide evidence to support his claim. So my vote is yes, and I believe you KMAN owe rick a public apology. Please provide me with the precise quote from one of his links where it states that Canadians have in fact died waiting in line for treatment. Now I hope this can bring and end to the acrimony, and I would note that though I believe rick provided the evidence, that I understand better after reading maybe a hundred post by him that his style can be abrasive. My only suggestion is that in the future if you want to avoid the abrasion, don't engage him in debate. TnT TnT I would suggest that you be more careful in evaluating the question at hand. If you saw evidence provided by Rick (or anywhere else) that Canadians have died waiting in line for treatment, please post it. KMAN, your question was whether rick posted any evidence, not whether that evidence was valid! Holy geezus the weasels are runing wild tonight! My apologies for being unclear Tinkerntom. Can I please try again? Has rick PROVEN to you that Canadians are dying waiting for health care? [] Yes [] No Thank you for your patience. |
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