"Michael Daly" wrote in message
...
On 24-Feb-2005, "KMAN" wrote:

FYI:

Unfair - your trying to confuse him with facts!
====================
It appears that you and kman have confused yourselves. What
makes an AK47 knockoff any different that another less vicious
gun?



:-)

Mike

in article t, rick at
wrote on 2/24/05 9:17 PM:


"Michael Daly" wrote in message
...
On 24-Feb-2005, "KMAN" wrote:

FYI:

Unfair - your trying to confuse him with facts!
====================
It appears that you and kman have confused yourselves. What
makes an AK47 knockoff any different that another less vicious
gun?

Where did I ever say an AK47 knockoff is any different than another less
vicious gun (whatever that means)?

"KMAN" wrote in message
...
in article t,
rick at
wrote on 2/24/05 9:17 PM:


"Michael Daly" wrote in message
...
On 24-Feb-2005, "KMAN" wrote:

FYI:

Unfair - your trying to confuse him with facts!
====================
It appears that you and kman have confused yourselves. What
makes an AK47 knockoff any different that another less vicious
gun?

Where did I ever say an AK47 knockoff is any different than
another less
vicious gun (whatever that means)?
==================
Just displaying the ignorance of you and other anti-gun idiots.
The assualt rifle you keep spewing about works no differently,
and fires a bullet no more powerful than other weapons.

in article et, rick at
wrote on 2/24/05 10:41 PM:


"KMAN" wrote in message
...
in article t,
rick at
wrote on 2/24/05 9:17 PM:


"Michael Daly" wrote in message
...
On 24-Feb-2005, "KMAN" wrote:

FYI:

Unfair - your trying to confuse him with facts!
====================
It appears that you and kman have confused yourselves. What
makes an AK47 knockoff any different that another less vicious
gun?

Where did I ever say an AK47 knockoff is any different than
another less
vicious gun (whatever that means)?
==================
Just displaying the ignorance of you and other anti-gun idiots.
The assualt rifle you keep spewing about works no differently,
and fires a bullet no more powerful than other weapons.

If you mean there are other weapons that are equally capable of killing, I
am aware, and never said otherwise.

"KMAN" wrote in message
...
in article
et, rick at
wrote on 2/24/05 10:41 PM:


"KMAN" wrote in message
...
in article
t,
rick at
wrote on 2/24/05 9:17 PM:


"Michael Daly" wrote in message
...
On 24-Feb-2005, "KMAN" wrote:

FYI:

Unfair - your trying to confuse him with facts!
====================
It appears that you and kman have confused yourselves.
What
makes an AK47 knockoff any different that another less
vicious
gun?

Where did I ever say an AK47 knockoff is any different than
another less
vicious gun (whatever that means)?
==================
Just displaying the ignorance of you and other anti-gun
idiots.
The assualt rifle you keep spewing about works no differently,
and fires a bullet no more powerful than other weapons.

If you mean there are other weapons that are equally capable of
killing, I
am aware, and never said otherwise.
=====================
Really? I'm surprised. Your facination with a certain weapon
because of its looks is quite amusing. Again, what makes the AK
more dangerous than other weapons?

in article et, rick at
wrote on 2/25/05 12:17 AM:


"KMAN" wrote in message
...
in article
et, rick at
wrote on 2/24/05 10:41 PM:


"KMAN" wrote in message
...
in article
t,
rick at
wrote on 2/24/05 9:17 PM:


"Michael Daly" wrote in message
...
On 24-Feb-2005, "KMAN" wrote:

FYI:

Unfair - your trying to confuse him with facts!
====================
It appears that you and kman have confused yourselves.
What
makes an AK47 knockoff any different that another less
vicious
gun?

Where did I ever say an AK47 knockoff is any different than
another less
vicious gun (whatever that means)?
==================
Just displaying the ignorance of you and other anti-gun
idiots.
The assualt rifle you keep spewing about works no differently,
and fires a bullet no more powerful than other weapons.

If you mean there are other weapons that are equally capable of
killing, I
am aware, and never said otherwise.
=====================
Really? I'm surprised. Your facination with a certain weapon
because of its looks is quite amusing. Again, what makes the AK
more dangerous than other weapons?

In terms of ability to kill more people more quickly, it is definitely more
dangerous than any bolt action. You won't find too many drug dealers
sporting a Field King LOL!

"KMAN" wrote in message
...
in article
et, rick at
wrote on 2/25/05 12:17 AM:


"KMAN" wrote in message
...
in article
et, rick at
wrote on 2/24/05 10:41 PM:


"KMAN" wrote in message
...
in article
t,
rick at
wrote on 2/24/05 9:17 PM:


"Michael Daly" wrote in message
...
On 24-Feb-2005, "KMAN" wrote:

FYI:

Unfair - your trying to confuse him with facts!
====================
It appears that you and kman have confused yourselves.
What
makes an AK47 knockoff any different that another less
vicious
gun?

Where did I ever say an AK47 knockoff is any different than
another less
vicious gun (whatever that means)?
==================
Just displaying the ignorance of you and other anti-gun
idiots.
The assualt rifle you keep spewing about works no
differently,
and fires a bullet no more powerful than other weapons.

If you mean there are other weapons that are equally capable
of
killing, I
am aware, and never said otherwise.
=====================
Really? I'm surprised. Your facination with a certain weapon
because of its looks is quite amusing. Again, what makes the
AK
more dangerous than other weapons?

In terms of ability to kill more people more quickly, it is
definitely more
dangerous than any bolt action. You won't find too many drug
dealers
sporting a Field King LOL!
=================
LOL Thanks again for the proof of your stupidity. Why bring up
bolt actions? Besides, many people can fire bolt actions very
very quickly. My question was what makes the AK knockoff any
more dangerous that other weapons of the type? All you are
focusing on are visual aspects of a gun, the operation is not any
different that many other weapons. Again you porvw that you
can't think for yourself, but rely on ignorance and
sensationalism for your ideology.

"rick" writes:

"KMAN" wrote in message
...
in article
et, rick at
wrote on 2/24/05 10:41 PM:


"KMAN" wrote in message
...

Where did I ever say an AK47 knockoff is any different than
another less
vicious gun (whatever that means)?
==================
Just displaying the ignorance of you and other anti-gun
idiots.
The assualt rifle you keep spewing about works no differently,
and fires a bullet no more powerful than other weapons.

If you mean there are other weapons that are equally capable of
killing, I
am aware, and never said otherwise.
=====================
Really? I'm surprised. Your facination with a certain weapon
because of its looks is quite amusing. Again, what makes the AK
more dangerous than other weapons?

Well, the fact that AK47s fire 7.62mm hypervelocity rounds might
have something to do with it. They are easily capable of taking
off an arm or a leg if they stike bone, and, even if they don't
strike bone, they will blast out a sizable chunk of flesh.

They have quite a respectable rate of fire as well, even if they
aren't the most accurate assault rifles in the world.

The fact that criminals aren't likely to have any qualms about
modifying their ammo (hollow points etc) doesn't help either.

Of cource they are really no more lethal than any other
weapon that uses that size of high-velocity round, and only slightly
more lethal than an assault rifle using NATO issue 5.54mm rounds,
such as the armalite, L85A1 or the Steyr-Aug.

Any of that class of weapon is rather more lethal than an equivalent
low-velocity type weapon, though you are still just as dead if you get
shot by someone carrying a .22 pistol with good aim.

--
James jamesk[at]homeric[dot]co[dot]uk

"I'm with Them. Same group, different department." (Justin, B5 "Z'Ha'Dum")

"Kegs" wrote in message
...
"rick" writes:

"KMAN" wrote in message
...
in article
et, rick at
wrote on 2/24/05 10:41 PM:


"KMAN" wrote in message
...

Where did I ever say an AK47 knockoff is any different than
another less
vicious gun (whatever that means)?
==================
Just displaying the ignorance of you and other anti-gun
idiots.
The assualt rifle you keep spewing about works no
differently,
and fires a bullet no more powerful than other weapons.

If you mean there are other weapons that are equally capable
of
killing, I
am aware, and never said otherwise.
=====================
Really? I'm surprised. Your facination with a certain weapon
because of its looks is quite amusing. Again, what makes the
AK
more dangerous than other weapons?

Well, the fact that AK47s fire 7.62mm hypervelocity rounds
might
have something to do with it.
==========================
that's a 39 round. And that compares with other weapons how?
Less powerful than many hunting rifles. Actually kind of a
mediocre round.



They are easily capable of taking
off an arm or a leg if they stike bone, and, even if they don't
strike bone, they will blast out a sizable chunk of flesh.
====================
Yep. Just what is was designed to do, wound.



They have quite a respectable rate of fire as well, even if
they
aren't the most accurate assault rifles in the world.
==============
So do many other weaopns..


The fact that criminals aren't likely to have any qualms about
modifying their ammo (hollow points etc) doesn't help either.
=======================
Yeah, sure, crack dealers are just sitting around making their
own rounds...


Of cource they are really no more lethal than any other
weapon that uses that size of high-velocity round, and only
slightly
more lethal than an assault rifle using NATO issue 5.54mm
rounds,
such as the armalite, L85A1 or the Steyr-Aug.
======================
The point was that they are less powerful than many other rifles
that are not the dreaded "assault" weapon. A disignation based
on looks, not killing power or accuracy.


Any of that class of weapon is rather more lethal than an
equivalent
low-velocity type weapon, though you are still just as dead if
you get
shot by someone carrying a .22 pistol with good aim.
==================
The point was that they are less powerful than most hunting
rifles.


--
James jamesk[at]homeric[dot]co[dot]uk

"I'm with Them. Same group, different department." (Justin,
B5 "Z'Ha'Dum")

A Usenet persona calling itself Kegs wrote:

"rick" writes:

"KMAN" wrote in message
...
in article
et, rick at
wrote on 2/24/05 10:41 PM:


"KMAN" wrote in message
...

Where did I ever say an AK47 knockoff is any different than
another less
vicious gun (whatever that means)?
==================
Just displaying the ignorance of you and other anti-gun
idiots.
The assualt rifle you keep spewing about works no differently,
and fires a bullet no more powerful than other weapons.

If you mean there are other weapons that are equally capable of
killing, I
am aware, and never said otherwise.
=====================
Really? I'm surprised. Your facination with a certain weapon
because of its looks is quite amusing. Again, what makes the AK
more dangerous than other weapons?

Well, the fact that AK47s fire 7.62mm hypervelocity rounds might
have something to do with it.

Once again you don't have a clue what you're talking about. The 7.62 x 39 AK
round is not a "hypervelocity" round by any known ballistic metric.

They are easily capable of taking
off an arm or a leg if they stike bone, and, even if they don't
strike bone, they will blast out a sizable chunk of flesh.

More ignorance. The lethality of the AK round is no greater than any other
similar caliber round, and is in fact much less, because the muzzle velocity
is actually less than that of the 7.62 NATO round and the bullet behavior in
flesh is entirely different from even the standard 5.56 NATO round used in
the M-16.

The muzzle velocity of the standard military 7.62 x 39mm round is 710 m/s
and muzzle energy is about 1990 joules for a standard 8 gram full metal
jacket military round.

"The Soviet AK-47 Kalashnikov fires a full-metal-jacketed, boat-tail bullet
that has a copper-plated steel jacket, a large steel core, and some lead
between the two. In tissue, this bullet typically travels for about 26cm
point-forward before beginning significant yaw. This author observed, on
many occasions, the damage pattern shown while treating battle casualties in
Da Nang, Vietnam (1968). The typical path through the abdomen caused minimal
disruption; holes in organs were similar to those caused by a
non-hollow-point handgun bullet. The average uncomplicated thigh wound was
about what one would expect from a low-powered handgun: a small, punctate
entrance and exit wound with minimal intervening muscle disruption."

Source: http://matrix.dumpshock.com/raygun/b...b.html#nato762

The standard 7.26 NATO round is a 7.62 x 51mm round carrying a 9.72 gram
full metal jacket bullet at a muzzle velocity of 860 m/s with a muzzle
energy of 3594 joules.

"The uncomplicated thigh wound might show very minimal tissue disruption
since the streamlined bullet tends to travel point forward during the first
16cm of its tissue path. The abdominal wound, with a sufficiently long path
so that the bullet will yaw, causing the large temporary cavity that is seen
at depths of 20 to 35cm, would be expected to be very disruptive. If the
bullet path is such that this temporary cavity occurs in the liver, this
amount of tissue disruption is likely to make survival improbable."

Source: Ibid.

The 5.56 x 45mm NATO round carries a 4.01 gram bullet at 921 m/s with a
muzzle energy of only 1700 joules, but it's lethality is greater than the AK
round because of bullet design and fragmentation.

"This bullet is fired from the US armed forces' first-generation
smaller-calibre rifle, the M16A1. The large permanent cavity it produces,
shown in the wound profile, was observed by surgeons who served in Vietnam,
but the tissue disruption mechanism responsible was not clear until the
importance of bullet fragmentation as a cause of tissue disruption was
worked out and described. As shown on the wound profile, this
full-metal-jacketed bullet travels point-forward in tissue for about 12cm
after which it yaws to 90°, flattens, and breaks at the cannelure (groove
around bullet midsection into which the cartridge neck is crimped). The
bullet point flattens but remains in one piece, retaining about 60 per cent
of the original bullet weight. The rear portion breaks into many fragments
that penetrate up to 7cm radially from the bullet path. The temporary cavity
stretch, its effect increased by perforation and weakening of the tissue by
fragments, then causes a much enlarged permanent cavity by detaching tissue
pieces. The degree of bullet fragmentation decreases with increased shooting
distance (as striking velocity decreases), as shown in Fig. 5. At a shooting
distance over about 100m the bullet breaks at the cannelure, forming two
large fragments and, at over 200m, it no longer breaks, although it
continues to flatten somewhat, until 400m. This consistent change in
deformation/fragmentation pattern has an important forensic application. It
can be used to estimate shooting distance if the bullet is recovered in the
body and has penetrated only soft tissue.

The effects of this bullet in the abdomen shot will show the temporary
cavity effects as described for the Yugoslav AK-47 and, in addition, there
will be an increased tissue disruption from the synergistic effect of
temporary cavitation acting on tissue that has been weakened by bullet
fragmentation. Instead of finding a hole consistent with the size of the
bullet in hollow organs such as the intestine, we typically find a hole left
by missing tissue of up to 7cm in diameter. The thigh entrance wound will be
small and punctate. The first part of the tissue path will show minimal
disruption. The exit will vary from the small punctate hole described for
the Soviet AK-47 to the stellate exit described for the Yugoslav AK-47,
depending on how thick the thigh is where the bullet perforates it. In a
sufficiently thick thigh, the M193 bullet fragmentation is also likely to
cause a significant loss of tissue and possibly one or more small exit
wounds near the large stellate one."

Source: Ibid.

Thus, once again, you have no idea what you're talking about.

They have quite a respectable rate of fire as well, even if they
aren't the most accurate assault rifles in the world.

The civilian variant have exactly the same rate of fire as any other
semi-automatic firearm: one round per trigger pull.


The fact that criminals aren't likely to have any qualms about
modifying their ammo (hollow points etc) doesn't help either.

Nor does it hurt, particularly, since AK variants are seldom used in crime.


Of cource they are really no more lethal than any other
weapon that uses that size of high-velocity round, and only slightly
more lethal than an assault rifle using NATO issue 5.54mm rounds,
such as the armalite, L85A1 or the Steyr-Aug.

Once again, you are wrong.


Any of that class of weapon is rather more lethal than an equivalent
low-velocity type weapon, though you are still just as dead if you get
shot by someone carrying a .22 pistol with good aim.

The velocities of AK variants, M-16 variants and 7.62 variants is no
different than, and usually less than the velocities of your average,
ordinary hunting round.

There is no such thing as a "low velocity" rifle round, nor is there any
commercially available "hypervelocity" ammunition available. Your argument
is specious because you haven't a clue what the term "hypervelocity" means
in the firearms projectile lexicon.

--
Regards,
Scott Weiser

"I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend on
friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" TM

© 2005 Scott Weiser