A Usenet persona calling itself Michael Daly wrote:

On 12-Mar-2005, Scott Weiser wrote:

Form and structure are not dependent on dimension as you naively
assume.

But that's a claim I've never made.

On 9-Mar-2005, Scott Weiser wrote:

I am using the term morphology correctly. It is about shape and
form, not size.

Not according to the only authoritative definition of the word posted so
far.

On 10-Mar-2005, Scott Weiser wrote:

I don't see the word "size" or "dimension" anywhere in here.

That's because you're an idiot, ****-brick.
[...]
morphology inherently includes size as a component of form and structure.

You are claiming that morphology is based on dimension

Wrongo. I state as a matter of fact that dimension is a component of
morphology.

even though the
definition that you provide does not even contain any reference to dimension.
You have claimed that within morphology, you can't have form or structure
without dimension.




On 10-Mar-2005, Scott Weiser wrote:

Thus biometry is an aspect of morphology.

I have given many examples of scientists and engineers using morphological
characteristics without _any_ reference to dimension. Morphology is
_independent_ of dimension. Form and structure are independent of size.

Not when it comes to analyzing organisms. One can analyze an abstract,
size-less, lifeless structure like a building or an airplane wing (though
Reynolds numbers do affect wing performance) but when talking about
organisms, which is what we're talking about, size is a component of
morphology.

It is only when one moves from the study of a class of forms to the
study of an individual instance of an entity that one invokes size and
hence biometry. The problem is that you can't distinguish between classes
of objects and instances of objects. Morphology is about classification
and biometry is about measuring an instance of an object independent of
its class. Two different activities with two different objectives.
They are not the same thing and are not done with the same objective.
One is not a subset of the other.

Evidently, the Smithsonian disagrees with you.

It is you that does not understand the slightest thing about morphology
and biometry, nor about science. You insist in claiming expertise because
you misunderstand a dictionary entry. Why don't you actually _study_
something about the topic instead of continuing to post bull****.

But....watching you rant, rave and foam at the mouth is so much FUN!


You affirm my statement with your discussion of H. florensiensis.

And yet at every point up to now you've tried to claim that size
is important.

No, merely that size is a component of the morphology of an organism. No
form and structure without size in living organisms.


You said there have been "no morphological changes in skeletal remains
during the entire history of Homo Sapiens."

I suggested that, if nothing else, the average height has increased in
recorded history. One of the "other things" is, for example, the larger
brain case, more complex brain, and "lighter skeletal structure" than
earlier forms. All of these are morphological differences, not merely size
differences, as your H. florensiensis quote demonstrates. You tried to limit
the discussion specifically to H sap., but the issue is larger than that.

Yes - you tried to change the topic. Every time you get stuck, you try
to change the topic instead of address the facts presented.

Nah. Just returning to the fundamental question involved, which you are
desperate to avoid and are evading through pettifoggery.


There are morphological differences because they are in different classes.
Each is a separate species, dickhead. Within a single species, changes
in structure are extremely slow to occur - my point and one you don't want
to hear.

Because you want to limit the discussion to a single species, while I'm
discussing the broader question of how A. ramidus became H. sap., or even
how H. ergaster became H. sap.

If evolution is the true method of species advancement, then there needs to
be an explanation for the morphological changes that take place between H.
ergaster and H. sap.

And there must also be an explanation of why the shark hasn't changed nearly
as much (if at all) in 400 million years while humans changed from
H.ergaster (and earlier non-human forms) to H. sap in less than two million
years.

One hypothesis is that as a result of intelligent design, sharks were meant
to remain sharks, while humans were meant to become H. sap. At the moment,
this hypothesis is as valid as that of evolution because you cannot explain
the disparate amounts of evolution evidenced in the two species. Sharks have
not even become "really smart sharks with hands," much less evolved into
something entirely different, while human beings are thought to have evolved
into upright-gaited, highly intelligent organisms from some theoretical
primitive primate ancestor.

Until you can explain this disparity, one hypothesis (or theory, if you
will) is any more the "Truth" than the other.

Simple logic proves it:

You prove nothing. See above. If you want to prove this, try finding
a reference that agrees with your ridiculous claims.

Interesting that someone supposedly as scientifically advanced as you can't
deconstruct a logical syllogism any more authoritatively than by saying
"Ain't so."


Not quite, you merely misunderstand the point of the debate.

No, I'm addressing the fact that _you_ do not bother with facts and
that _you_ will post anything that comes to your mind even if it
nothing but bull****. Stop changing the topic. You are nothing
but a bull****ter.

Which makes you the bull****ee, I guess.

Had your fill yet?

--
Regards,
Scott Weiser

"I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend on
friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" TM

© 2005 Scott Weiser

On 14-Mar-2005, Scott Weiser wrote:

Not when it comes to analyzing organisms. One can analyze an abstract,
size-less, lifeless structure like a building or an airplane wing (though
Reynolds numbers do affect wing performance) but when talking about
organisms, which is what we're talking about, size is a component of
morphology.

Exactly why does one use morphology? To analyse a single organism?
No, dickhead, that won't tell you anything. Morphological characteristics
are used to compare, contrast and categorize organisms. Hence you are
working with a class of organisms, not a single entity. One only looks
at the morphological characteristics of a single entity when one wants
to determine which category it belongs to - as in the analysis of
H. florensiensis.

If size was a critical component, then you have a serious problem.
There are 6.5 billion people on this planet, few of whom are the
same height. If every height is a unique characteristic, then
there are millions of species of humans. In fact, there is only
one species and height is not a parameter in defining it. However,
other morphological characteristics are important - the shapes
of bones differentiates H sapiens from, say, gorillas or orangutans.

You still don't understand the concept and you still think you're
an expert because you misunderstand a single dictionary definition
of morphology.

Evidently, the Smithsonian disagrees with you.

Proof?

No form and structure without size in living organisms.

And yet the size of the brain casts in analyzing H. florensiensis
as not a factor.

Main Entry: 1form
Pronunciation: 'form
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English forme, from Old French, from Latin forma form, beauty
1 a : the shape and structure of something as distinguished from its material.

Nothing in there about size.

Main Entry: 1struc·ture
Pronunciation: 'str&k-ch&r
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin structura, from structus, past
participle of struere to heap up, build
Something arranged in a definite pattern of organization a rigid totalitarian structure
-- J. L. Hess leaves and other plant structures
a : The arrangement of particles or parts in a substance or body soil structure
molecular structure
b : Organization of parts as dominated by the general character of the whole
economic structure personality structure
The aggregate of elements of an entity in their relationships to each other

Nothing in there about size.

You're fantasizing as usual.

Nah. Just returning to the fundamental question involved,

No avoiding the current discussion - you post bull**** and can't
be bothered to demonstrate that there are any real facts involved.


Because you want to limit the discussion to a single species

You keep insisting that I am limiting or restricting the discussion.
More of your bull****. I am simply stating a fact. You can't deal with
facts. Yo uprefer to be a vaque as possible and avoid being pinned
down on anything. That makes it easier for you to bull****.

Interesting that someone supposedly as scientifically advanced as you can't
deconstruct a logical syllogism any more authoritatively than by saying
"Ain't so."

Interesting that someone like you who claims to be correct can't ever
produce any evidence to back yourself up.

So we return to the start of this part of the thread:

Your "theory of evolution" - bull****.
Your claims about Newton and Galileo - bull****.
Your claims about flat earth beliefs - bull****.
Your claims about humans (modern or early) not walking upright - bull****.
Your claims about morphology - bull****.

There's nothing that you post of any value - you have proven that you
can't tell the truth or provide any references to back your ridiculous
claims.

Mike

A Usenet persona calling itself Michael Daly wrote:


On 14-Mar-2005, Scott Weiser wrote:

Not when it comes to analyzing organisms. One can analyze an abstract,
size-less, lifeless structure like a building or an airplane wing (though
Reynolds numbers do affect wing performance) but when talking about
organisms, which is what we're talking about, size is a component of
morphology.

Exactly why does one use morphology? To analyse a single organism?
No, dickhead, that won't tell you anything. Morphological characteristics
are used to compare, contrast and categorize organisms. Hence you are
working with a class of organisms, not a single entity. One only looks
at the morphological characteristics of a single entity when one wants
to determine which category it belongs to - as in the analysis of
H. florensiensis.

Indeed. So what? Size is still a component of morphology.


If size was a critical component,

Who said "critical component?" Not me.

then you have a serious problem.
There are 6.5 billion people on this planet, few of whom are the
same height. If every height is a unique characteristic, then
there are millions of species of humans. In fact, there is only
one species and height is not a parameter in defining it. However,
other morphological characteristics are important - the shapes
of bones differentiates H sapiens from, say, gorillas or orangutans.

I never suggested that other morphological characteristics are unimportant,
I merely said that size is a component of morphology.


You still don't understand the concept and you still think you're
an expert because you misunderstand a single dictionary definition
of morphology.

Oh, I understand it just fine. You just disagree, but are unable to even
refute a simple logical syllogism.

No form and structure without size in living organisms.

And yet the size of the brain casts in analyzing H. florensiensis
as not a factor.

Don't be silly, of course the size of the brain case is a factor. Larger
brain cases mean larger brains, larger brains are a factor in species
morphology. The determination of "larger" involves biometry, which means
"size," which proves that size is a component of morphology.

There's nothing that you post of any value - you have proven that you
can't tell the truth or provide any references to back your ridiculous
claims.

And yet you keep on lapping it up.

--
Regards,
Scott Weiser

"I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend on
friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" TM

© 2005 Scott Weiser

On 15-Mar-2005, Scott Weiser wrote:

Oh, I understand it just fine. You just disagree, but are unable to even
refute a simple logical syllogism.

You _still_ can't offer any reference to back up your comments.

And yet you keep on lapping it up.

You're getting close to admitting you're lying. why not come
clean and maybe you can start working on telling the truth
for a change?

Mike

Michael Daly wrote:
On 15-Mar-2005, Scott Weiser wrote:

Oh, I understand it just fine. You just disagree, but are unable to
even
refute a simple logical syllogism.

You _still_ can't offer any reference to back up your comments.

And yet you keep on lapping it up.

You're getting close to admitting you're lying. why not come
clean and maybe you can start working on telling the truth
for a change?

Mike

Hey Michael, I have lost track what this particular discussion is
regarding, could you restate from your understanding what the various
contentions are. Thanks, TnT

"Tinkerntom" wrote in message
oups.com...

Hey Michael, I have lost track what this particular discussion is
regarding, could you restate from your understanding what the various
contentions are. Thanks, TnT

You're an idiot.

No, yor stupid.

Well, he says you're a moron.

What does he know....he's a fool.

Well, he ain't as dum as you.

So's yer mother.

Bite me.

Eat me.

Sez you.

You don't know what I said.

You don't know what you said. Answer my question.

What question?

What are you talking about.

You're and idiot

Blah......

Blah......

Wolfgang
no charge for this one.

Wolfgang wrote:
"Tinkerntom" wrote in message
oups.com...

Hey Michael, I have lost track what this particular discussion is
regarding, could you restate from your understanding what the various
contentions are. Thanks, TnT


You're an idiot.

No, yor stupid.

Well, he says you're a moron.

What does he know....he's a fool.

Well, he ain't as dum as you.

So's yer mother.

Bite me.

Eat me.

Sez you.

You don't know what I said.

You don't know what you said. Answer my question.

What question?

What are you talking about.

You're and idiot

Blah......

Blah......

Wolfgang
no charge for this one.

Wolfgang, that's basically this whole thread in one post... Thanks! ;-)

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko(a t)dse(d o t)nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://wilko.webzone.ru/

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...

"Tinkerntom" wrote in message
oups.com...

Hey Michael, I have lost track what this particular discussion is
regarding, could you restate from your understanding what the various
contentions are. Thanks, TnT

You're an idiot.

No, yor stupid.

Well, he says you're a moron.

What does he know....he's a fool.

Well, he ain't as dum as you.

So's yer mother.

Bite me.

Eat me.

Sez you.

You don't know what I said.

You don't know what you said. Answer my question.

What question?

What are you talking about.

You're and idiot

Blah......

Blah......

Wolfgang
no charge for this one.



Thanks -I had a bad day and that was a good laugh.

Ken

"Wilko" wrote in message
...
Wolfgang wrote:
"Tinkerntom" wrote in message
oups.com...

Hey Michael, I have lost track what this particular discussion is
regarding, could you restate from your understanding what the various
contentions are. Thanks, TnT


You're an idiot.

No, yor stupid.

Well, he says you're a moron.

What does he know....he's a fool.

Well, he ain't as dum as you.

So's yer mother.

Bite me.

Eat me.

Sez you.

You don't know what I said.

You don't know what you said. Answer my question.

What question?

What are you talking about.

You're and idiot

Blah......

Blah......

Wolfgang
no charge for this one.

Wolfgang, that's basically this whole thread in one post... Thanks! ;-)

This and most others. It's o.k. Nobody can make us read it.

Wolfgang
but where else can you watch serial self-immolation for free? :)

"No Spam" wrote in message
news:4%3_d.7236$FB6.2452@trndny09...

Thanks -I had a bad day and that was a good laugh.


You should read more Usenet. :)

Wolfgang