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"KMAN" wrote in message . .. "rick" wrote in message snippage... ====================== LOL Too bad your sarcasm doesn't substitute for reality fool. That you are too stupid, willfully?, to know that the local drug dealer isn't going to be able to walk into a gun store and purchase weapons tells us that you get all your 'data' from holloywood. Nave try, idiot, but you ideology is showing again. LOL. Yeah, I hear drug dealers complaining all the time how hard it is for them to get guns. ========================== Nice strawman fool. You claimed that they went down to the local gun store and bought AK47s. Kinda figure out finally just how stupid that makes you look? Again, your ideological ignorance Please explain what my "ideological ignorance" would be here. Do you mean that I am lacking in ideology, and therefore my view is not valid, or do you mean that I have an ideology that is ignorant? Assuming the latter, what is my ideology, and why is it ignorant? ============================== Because it can belive the ignorant spews you come up with. Nay, not just believe, but relish them. Can you try that again in English? =============== Why, is it not your first language? because everything you have spewed on guns as been the ignorance of the brainwashed. You not only believe your brainwashed ignorance, you relish it. You have no desire to know the truth as long as your ignorance means you don't have to think for yourself. is getting in the way of rationality, eh? I think the fact that more than 30,000 Americans will be killed by guns at the hands of their fellow citizens this year is massively irrational. ======================== Tell me, how many were with these so-called assault weapons, by the corner drug-dealer. Why are you offended by the term assault weapons? ================== I'm not. You're just enamored with it. You've heard your ideologs say it, so it must mean something, eh? You don't have a clue, but then, that's never stopped you before. Tell me how many millions of crimes are committed every year with these so-called assault weapons, fool. You've been caught with your strawmans pants down around your ankles again, and you just don't like it. If there are national statistics on gun deaths through drug related offences I'd be interested to see them. ================= Still to stupid to research anything yourself I see. |
rick says:
============== I see, anyone with information that desputes your ideology is bogus. Thanks for the idiot-light warning. ====================== I don't think that's what I said. I said.... watch for it..... carefully now..... :"Before citing them, you'd best find out who funds them. Once you've figured that out, you'll know which butts they're kissing." In my opinion, knowing from whence an organization's fundng comes, is critical to establishing what sorts of biases they have. I have no problem with information that disputes my "ideology" so long as it is credible. The Fraser Institute is not such an organization. The Fraser Institute does the bidding of its patrons. frtzw906 |
Well since your absolute hatred of Bush has blinded your reason I will stop
answering this thread. Yes the Republican members of the court stopped the count. It was stopped because it was wrong not to recount the whole state. Would they have stopped it if it had been the whole state - probably - and that would have been wrong. But working with the question before them they were absolutely right to stop the count. Targeted recounts were not the answer. "KMAN" wrote in message ... in article , Scott Weiser at wrote on 2/20/05 5:59 PM: A Usenet persona calling itself KMAN wrote: in article K53Sd.37676$t46.25480@trndny04, No Spam at wrote on 2/20/05 11:42 AM: just after Bush stole his first presidency. Bush won the election by every recount so far - have you found a different result? I would like to see it. I am not some blind follower of Bush but I'm getting tired of this stupid "Bush stole the election" crap. What happened in Florida was absurd, but the result has been verify many times. ??? Perhaps you are unaware that the the Republicam members of the Supreme Court stopped the recount. Well, that would be because the recount was being performed in violation of state and federal law in a biased manner that threatened the accuracy of the election, and therefore the recount was ruled to be unlawful. The Supreme Court is neither Republican nor Democrat, it's a neutral body that rules on the law, not on politics. True or false: it was the Republican appointees to the Supreme Court that voted to stop the recount. As to what every recount so far has to say, it depends on who you ask. For every http://www.bushwatch.com/gorebush.htm there's a http://rightwingnews.com/john/tantrum.php However, the ultimate arbiter has spoken. Clinton and Kerry both lost. Actually, Clinton won. I think you mean Al Gore. And as mentioned, thanks to the Republican appointees the Supreme Court who halted the recount, it will forever be known as the election that George W Bush stole. |
On 20-Feb-2005, Scott Weiser wrote: That is not even close to true. The invasion of Iraq was illegal. Nope. Prove it. The invasion of Honduras was illegal. Nope. Prove it. Mike |
On 20-Feb-2005, Scott Weiser wrote:
Once mo "Rights" are not granted by the Constitution. Rights exist as an inherent part of one's humanity, even without the existence of government, and they cannot be repealed or removed by government on a wholesale basis. Sophistry. Your rights may be deemed to exist independent of any government or document, but in real terms, you cannot enjoy those rights unless you are permitted to by governments and/or the majority and/or the tyrants that hold power. Individuals have nothing that can control this. Only civilizations do. Mike |
"BCITORGB" wrote in message oups.com... rick says: ============== I see, anyone with information that desputes your ideology is bogus. Thanks for the idiot-light warning. ====================== I don't think that's what I said. I said.... watch for it..... carefully now..... :"Before citing them, you'd best find out who funds them. Once you've figured that out, you'll know which butts they're kissing." In my opinion, knowing from whence an organization's fundng comes, is critical to establishing what sorts of biases they have. I have no problem with information that disputes my "ideology" so long as it is credible. The Fraser Institute is not such an organization. ================== LOL According to your ideology. Thanks for the laugh of the day. The Fraser Institute does the bidding of its patrons. =========================== So, like I said. That means you claim that the information on the wait times for treatment across Canada are bogus. I've yet to see you refute their information. Like all ideologs you just abuse their name hoping that that will be enough to cloud the information. Nice try, but as usual, the problems a of wait times are claimed by more that just the Fraser Institue. I used them because they have the information by type of service catorized and charted. You can access CBC sites, union sites, and others and get the information, but it is not as readily charted for reading. You and kman can continue to pretend that by abusing the messenger that the data is false, but you and I really know that the problems exist. frtzw906 |
On 20-Feb-2005, Scott Weiser wrote:
Which brings money to the US and stimulates the economy. It cost more to produce than you make by selling and that stimulates the economy? Never studied economics did you. Ah, and we finally come to the real agenda...what "other uses" do you have in mind? How about letting Californians live without artificial water shortages caused by agriculture taking the vast majority of what is available. Mike |
rick, do you only read what you want? Did you miss what I said earlier?
Once more.... wait for it...... read carefully now..... I said "You've been on about jingoistic breast-beating etc, so I thought I'd come clean. There are problems with the Canadian healthcare system. There are escalating costs. There are localized shortages. There are areas of inefficiency. And, there is an on-going national dialogue about how to deal with these issues. " OK, did you get that? Now did you get what I followed up with? My follow-up was that whereas Canadians may be seeking solutions to the problems, the American model would be unlikely to be such a solution. Without even getting into moral or ethical questions (which are very much a part of the debate), and simply dealing with economics and questions of systemic efficiency, the American model falls short. My point has been simple: the American models fails on just too many counts to be worthy of consideration. I agree: You have not held up the American model as being flawless. However, would I be correct in discerning that you'd prefer the American system over the Canadian system? frtzw906 |
On 20-Feb-2005, Scott Weiser wrote:
Please post the relevant parts of the US and Canadian constitutions that define federal vs state/provincial right and powers and demonstrate your claim that US states have more power. Look it up yourself. It's in the Amendments section. The Canadian constitution has no amendments section. You prove nothing, because you can't. You still don't have a clue about government on an international level. which US states have their ***own*** seats in the UN All 50 US states have seats, through the federal government. You can't read, can you? Mike |
BCITORGB wrote:
Wilko, I hear "the" president is just down the road from you today. This may be a good thing for him. (1) he's not at home while these tapes of him admitting drug use are all over the media. LOL! Considering how the Republicans tried to impeach Clinton who only admitted to smoking pot and not inhaling and using cigars on not very attractive girls, I wonder in what they'll do with a president who admits to using cocaine? Of course, considering the double standards they use, they'll probably do nothing. :-( (2) he might want to try some of the cafes that are so popular in amsterdam. GRIN My guess is that he will pass those with his nose high in the air... while some secret service guy quickly wipes the white powder from his nose. They usually don't sell cocaine in those cafe's. Anyway, say "hi" from all of us, will you? Some of my friends are down there now, I guess their protests could be considered "sending him some greetings"by the propaganda machine... :-) "W" said: ============= "The cocaine thing, let me tell you my strategy on that," Bush said on the tape. "Rather than saying no ... I think it's time for someone to draw the line and look people in the eye and say, you know, 'I'm not going to participate in ugly rumors about me and blame my opponent,' and hold the line. Stand up for a system that will not allow this kind of crap to go on." -- Whooa, what was he on when he said that?! "But you gotta understand, I want to be president, I want to lead. I want to set -- Do you want your little kid to say, 'Hey daddy, President Bush tried marijuana, I think I will?' " ====================== Hey kids, get a rich daddy with the right connections and you can get away with anything (in no particular order): being AWOL during wartime, warcrimes, torture, hard drug abuse, public drunkenness, financial mismanagement of big companies as well as the whole nation, wholescale murder, (including the roughly 8500 deaths of U.S. servicemen as a direct result of Iraq... far more wounded U.S. soldiers die on their way to or shortly after arrival to hospitals in Germany than in Iraq itself) lying, using double standards, mixing church and state, terrorising the population and what more. So much for a president giving the right example... Wilko -- Wilko van den Bergh wilko(a t)dse(d o t)nl Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe ---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.--- http://wilko.webzone.ru/ |
Mike: do you feel you're bashing your head against a brick wall? I
swear, it truly is the Queen of Hearts all over again. He'll define things to mean whatever he wants them to mean. Once you've been once around the block with him, you'll wonder exactly what does he mean when he says "state"? To quote Wilko: "His words can bend a crooked bar, straight." frtzw906 |
"BCITORGB" wrote in message ups.com... rick, do you only read what you want? Did you miss what I said earlier? Once more.... wait for it...... read carefully now..... I said "You've been on about jingoistic breast-beating etc, so I thought I'd come clean. There are problems with the Canadian healthcare system. There are escalating costs. There are localized shortages. There are areas of inefficiency. And, there is an on-going national dialogue about how to deal with these issues. " ===================== Yes, I did see you 'say' those things, and then you go on to clouding the issue by claiming that the site that i used to report the facts was not credible. Again, you make light of your systems flaws. Like saying 'localized' shortages when everything I've seen shows wait lists across canada. Some far too long to be called a health 'care' system. Again, the data is there from Media outlets, Unions, Universities, and more. OK, did you get that? Now did you get what I followed up with? My follow-up was that whereas Canadians may be seeking solutions to the problems, the American model would be unlikely to be such a solution. ==================== And, no where have i ever said it should be. Selective reading of your own? Without even getting into moral or ethical questions (which are very much a part of the debate), and simply dealing with economics and questions of systemic efficiency, the American model falls short. ===================== LOL That's the point. You claim that of the US system, and ignore the shortcomes of the Canadian system. Being #30 vs #38 is hardly cause for all your chest thumping. My point has been simple: the American models fails on just too many counts to be worthy of consideration. ==================== As does the Canadian one compared to many other systems. I agree: You have not held up the American model as being flawless. However, would I be correct in discerning that you'd prefer the American system over the Canadian system? =========================== Again, something I have never claimed. That said, if I were in need of treatment, and could get it without waiting, i'd be on my way there. frtzw906 |
BCITORGB wrote:
Mike: do you feel you're bashing your head against a brick wall? I swear, it truly is the Queen of Hearts all over again. He'll define things to mean whatever he wants them to mean. Once you've been once around the block with him, you'll wonder exactly what does he mean when he says "state"? Now you know why RivieraRatt coined him "Last Word Weiser": He keeps wanting to have the last word, even if he says nothing relevant to or even about the things you said to him. Of course, eventually most people just stop bothering to respond to him, having become accustomed to his drivel. Then he really gets the last word, because every single post from him signals the end to that particular branch of a thread. :-) To quote Wilko: "His words can bend a crooked bar, straight." IMNSHO That goes for a couple of the critters hanging out he Mr. Pus ("Etter" is a Dutch word for pus) Mr. Tinkerbell (He sure seems to give off the impression that he sees angels fly sometimes) I guess I've come to the conclusion that responding to any of those three is just a waste of perfectly good energy. It was fun seeing how they were losing arguments by being confronted with situations and facts that they couldn't counter with hardly anything other than "you have to believe what I say", "that's how it is", "You don't understand it", "prove it", "those facts aren't true" and calling names... Time for some peace and quiet: I'm off to bed! :-) -- Wilko van den Bergh wilko(a t)dse(d o t)nl Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe ---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.--- http://wilko.webzone.ru/ |
"rick" wrote in message nk.net... "KMAN" wrote in message . .. "rick" wrote in message ink.net... "KMAN" wrote in message ... in article t, rick at wrote on 2/20/05 10:48 PM: "KMAN" wrote in message ... in article t, rick at wrote on 2/20/05 5:17 PM: snippage... No one is waiting for treatment. It's about a specific type of scan in a specific geographic area and the waiting is for non-emergencies. ================== LOL Again, sure. I understand that when he turns into an 'emergency' case he will be right in the door. That you don't see a problem with that says alot about your blindly following what you are being told... Being told by whom? ================== Your ideological mouth pieces. Apparently you can't think for yourself... What ideological mouthpieces? ====================== The ones that tell you that the Canadian system has no waiting times, and is the best system. Who are they? When did they tell me this? ================ You tell me. Or, were you just making up the stuff you claimed about getting in for any test right away? What are you talking about? You can't get any test you want right away. However, you can get excellent care most everywhere and in the event of living in a geographically isolated area or some other area where there is less equipment and doctors than the norm, tests for non-emergencies might result in a long wait. Take a look into low birth weight babies born in Canada vs the US. Being born low weight to a Canadian family is a greater risk that being born to a African-American family in the US. Where does that fit in with your ill-concieved ideas that the 'poor' in the US suffer, while no-one in Canada does? Where are you getting that information? ======================= Try getting it yourself. You're the one in canada.... As I suspected. More yakety yak by someone who has no idea. ========================== LOL Thanks for proving that you are ignorant of computer use. Your statement does not compute. ======================= Of course not, not to someone that apparently dosen't know how to use theirs, eh? Logic system failure. ==================== Yes, you have failed at alot of things here. Core logic meltdown. As far as making ignorant claims, there are more than a few that you have never backed up. This is a weasely way of admitting that you can't back up your claim. ==================== Nopde. Try again fool. I've even given you the hints... No hinting necessary weasel. ================= Of couirse not. You knew you were spouting idiocy when you started. You just weren't expecting to be called on your stupidity. You haven't called me on anything. tell me a 2 1/2 year wait if the boy does have cancer won't effect the outcome of his life, and that if the family HAS the money, they won't get one privately in Canada or the states. snip... Yes, rich people everywhere can find ways to get things that other people can't. Canada does not have a ban on rich people. ===================== Yet you try to pretend that your have a single health care system for all, and equal for all. I've said no such thing. But a poor person will receive a higher standard of care in Canada than most anywhere else on the planet. ====================== LOL Again, once they are an 'emergency', eh? No. I can leave my house right now and drive to the nearest medical clinic and get excellent care. They will not ask me how much money I make. ======================= Sure, but they will make you wait for the tests to determine what you mental illness is. That you are trying to deny that there are long wait lists for many treatments needed across Canada is your ideology speaking, not reality. The quality of care varies somewhat particulary (as one might expect) in sparsely populated regions. But the standard of care across the country is excellent. I should know, I use it, and so do my friends and relatives. FYI, I was born in Evanston, Illinois, and I know a fair bit about health care in both countries, with relatives that live in both. ======================== Wow, how nice. Do you figure that you are the only one with family and friends in both systems? No. Everyone prefers the Canadian system. That is not to say that no one has ever complained about how long they had to wait for an elective procedure, but between the two systems as a whole, it is no contenst. It has nothing to do with ideology. ========================= Then they must be as brainwashed as you, because many of the ones I know always come back to the US for care. And, in a couple of cases, to give care. How many? What are they coming for? Why? ======================= Why do all yours allegedly prefer the canadian system? I've answered one reason right off the bat. No waits. In a couple of cases the treatments needed weren't life threatening, but very painful joint problems. They decided that their wait time, and being dosed with painkillers instead of treatment was medically unsound. They prefer the Canadian system because the standard of care is not dependent upon your income and you don't have to mortgage your house to get the treatment that you need. Yes, you might indeed have to wait longer than you would like to treat something that is painful but not life-threatening. As to the 'anywhere else on the planet', Canada barely ranks better than the US And yet, ranks better, by whatever standard you are using. ================ LOL Where have I ever claimed the US had no problems? You on the other hand are trying to defend the indefenseble. Not at all. So far you have pointed out that certain people looking for a very specific type of scan in a non-emergency situation in Newfoundland are having to wait a long time. This is a far cry from the statements about peopel dying in waiting lines that brought me into this goofy discussion. ========================== LOL That you have to fisate on one example says alot about your brainwashing. That you believe that that is the one and only case available to find is a hoot. It was your example. ================ Yes, one example of many. Why do you try to deny the months long wait lists acroos Canada? More chest thumping? What wait lists across Canada? All you have talked about is one isolated case in Newfoundland. I got involved in this thread because it was alleged that Canadians are dying in waiting lines. That is total crap. And there hasn't been one piece of evidence to support the allegation, nothing but a story about Newfoundland, and nothing having to do with people dying while waiting. and both are in the 30s, from the top of best care. Both have serious problems, and jingoistically pounding your chest about being #30 doesn't really mean anything, does it? This means, logically, at the other end of the scale a very rich person may indeed opt to seek care elsewhere. ================ Again, yes, rather than to wait until they are an 'emergency' case. You have no clue. ===================== Yes, apparently more than you. There is no evidence of that. ==================== I've posted real data, from real sites. Perhaps so, but none to support your argument. ==================== LOL So, the sites I have posted have somehow said that there are no wait times in canada? Man, you do have comprhension problems, don't you? There are wait times in every medical system. Nobody in Canada is dying while waiting, as was alleged. You seem to be making it up as you go. Come on, provide more than just your say-so that there are no waiting lines for Canadian health-care. If you mean that somewhere in a doctor's office or emergency room someone is waiting, I have to agree. But no one is dying in a waiting line. ====================== An assertion that is not backed up by canadian sources. And for many, the decision is not to wait until then, but to go elsewhere for treatment. No one is dying in a waiting line as alleged. I went to the doctor just last Monday. I called on Friday. Got an appointment Monday afternoon. Received excellent care. Got a prescription, had it filled that day. What's the problem? ====================== ummm, one example. Somehow I get the feeling that one exmple for youis adequate, but I have to show that every Canadian is waiting for specialized treatment. see your ideology is still in control, rather that rationality. You seem to have some bizarre notions about how things work here, so I was sharing with you a real life example. The fact that there is no evidence to sustantiate the allegation of people dying in waiting lines should of course been enough for you. You are basing your ridiculous views on an isolated situation in Newfoundland. That's like basing my view of US health care on some spot in Alaska. ===================== Isolated? What a hoot!!! Try some research fool. Start at the Fraser Institute. Surely you've heard of them. They're in Canada. I know all about the Fraser Institute. LOL. Now perhaps I have at least a partial explanation of where you are getting these crazy ideas. The secondary name for the Fraser Institue is "I wish George W. Bush was the Prime Minister of Canada." Asking what the Fraser Institute thinks about Canadian Health Care is like asking the NRA for objective advice on handguns. Only worse! ROFL ==================== They are but one. But nice to see your ideology won't let truth get in your way. Keep trying fool, maybe someday you'll learn something other than your brainwashed opinion. Heehee. You are so silly. =============== Teehee, and you are still an ignorant buffoon. At least I know that the Fraser Institute isn't the place to go for objective information. You really looked pathetic spouting off about that. You could just hear the collective guffaws! All it manages to do is promote a have vs have-not conflict. ? |
On 20-Feb-2005, "rick" wrote:
Start at the Fraser Institute. The Fraser Institute hardly constitutes an unbiased source. Sort of like getting your news from Fox. Mike |
On 20-Feb-2005, Scott Weiser wrote:
Quite right, because the question is unanswerable. If you can't identify any valid theory of evolution then what exactly is it that your are claiming is wrong? Setting up a fake theory and then blaming the scientific community for it is not particularly useful. - in fact you haven't identified what any version of evolution is and you haven't demonstrated that _your_ version of "evolution" even exists in the scientific community. I disagree. You're contradicting yourself. But they are all still sharks. They are not the aquatic version of human beings. Why should they be? That's _your_ fantasy about evolution, not any theory that exists in the scientific community. There is _nothing_ in the scientific realm that insists on a monotonic, continuous variation in species evolution. If nothing else, the average height of humans has increased substantially in recorded history. There you go inventing your own version of morphology. Stick with the facts - height variation occurs _within_ morphological similarity. If DNA shifts cause gradual morphological changes And if it doesn't cause gradual changes? You are the one that insists on change being gradual, not the scientific community. Some paleontologists posit that Neanderthal and Sapien may have co-existed, but the overlap is speculative at this point. Nothing speculative at all. They are known to have co-existed. The timeframes of overlap are in tens of thousands of years. Tools from both species are found in the same sites in the same timeframe. But one would expect to find some evidence of these unfavorable changes. If the change is in soft tissue, how is that to be found? Morphology isn't evolution and it isn't biology nor genetics. It is one aspect of biology. Which constitutes ADAPTATION, not evolution. Your assumption. You don't know whether the change required an evolutionary change in, say, brain function, that would allow for an iguana to swim and feed underwater. For marine iguanas, the development of gills would be an entirely useful evolution that would produce a favorable result. In the case of sharks, the development of a sophisticated intellect and communications capability that permits sharks to communicate sophisticated concepts to one another (along the lines of YOur fantasies. The scientific community does not dictate what constitutes a minimal requirement for the real world in order to consider it to be evolution. Even if the theory of evolution is true, Which theory of evolution? You claimed you can't identify it. Thus, evolution, even if true, does not disprove the existence of God. Rejecting the possibility of God's existence merely because one believes in the theory of evolution is shallow thinking indeed. And who, in this discussion, has suggested that? As long as you are fighting against your fantasies, you'll have problems. Mike |
On 20-Feb-2005, Scott Weiser wrote:
You appear to be saying that God does not exist and that belief in God is proof of a lack of intelligence. Since you've just admitted that science cannot disprove the existence of God, that would appear to impeach your intellectual credibility somewhat. Please quote where I have said anything of the kind. I have _never_ said that God does not exist. I have never said that belief in God is a sign of a lack of intelligence. I said that we can neither prove, nor disprove, the existance of God and that people who can't cope with that are fools. Many major religions have no problems with this view of God - the Roman Catholic Church, the Anglican Church and many others state clearly that belief in God is an act of faith. They also can deal with scientific enquiry that neither requires nor forces the existance of God. Mike |
On 20-Feb-2005, Scott Weiser wrote:
If it occurs, nothing changes. Another logical failure. If something "occurs," there is, ipso facto, "change." My masters thesis was in risk - all probability and stats. When we talk about probabilities and we have a reasonable sample (or a population) of data, an occurance does not change the underlying stats. We are talking about probability and stats here. If one can create hydrogen by fracturing water with electricity produced by solar panels, then the pollution budget may be lessened, And if meaningful amounts of energy are to be created, then you'd better be prepared to pave entire states with photovoltaic panels. If you look at H2 as a complete package, the unsuitability of the stuff becomes apparent. It all depends on what we're trying to accomplish. The H2 economy advocates have successfully pulled the wool over many eyes. Mike |
On 20-Feb-2005, Scott Weiser wrote:
He did. Evidence of Sarin was found on the battlefield, and numerous Sarin-filled artillery shells were found. They were not used because the artillery commanders refused to fire them, knowing that if they did, they risked nuclear conflict. Proof? surrendered gladly to US troops. This is a fiction that only you americans seem to believe. He didn't fight back effectively because no dictator can who rules by terror and intimidation when a liberator with a real chance appears. According to you he had spirited the WMDs to Syria. That kinda hinders a defense. Either he had weapons to fight back or he didn't. Which is it? and he likely removed them to Syria, Given that the air was filled with american spy planes and satellite surveillance, how come there is no direct evidence for this. US claims in the absence of anything resembling proof leaves a lot of us sceptical. So far we've only seen photos of broken down trucks. along with billions in gold and cash, before the invasion. Which begs the question, why didn't he spirit mimself out to enjoy those same billions? Again, this leads only to scepticism about such claims. Don't claim he had nowhere to go - Bin Laden's still out there protected someplace. just as they are jumping on the bandwagon to play to N. Korea's every claim about nuclear weapons. Are you suggesting that we should NOT take North Korea's claim to have nuclear weapons seriously Taking them seriously and giving them credibility are two different things. For now. We've got other things to do. Yawn, another excuse... Mike |
On 20-Feb-2005, Scott Weiser wrote:
socialized medicine is that under socialized medicine, the government runs the operation and dictates who gets what care when and at what cost. You create a ficticious version of socialized health care, claim it applies to every other country and then shoot it down. This is the same technique you use with your ficticious "theory of evolution" and ficticious political regimes in other countries. Why don't you deal with the real world? Mike |
On 20-Feb-2005, Scott Weiser wrote:
They PRESUMED that the vast majority of citizens would be armed, and would in fact be carrying arms most of the time, and would therefore be able to use those arms to keep the peace and defend against criminal assault. Personal defense against criminal assault? That's what a "militia" defending against tyranical government is in your mind? Bizarre! Mike |
"KMAN" wrote in message ... snippage... Who are they? When did they tell me this? ================ You tell me. Or, were you just making up the stuff you claimed about getting in for any test right away? What are you talking about? You can't get any test you want right away. ================ Wellthere you go. Thanks for finally admitting there are wait lists... However, you can get excellent care most everywhere and in the event of living in a geographically isolated area or some other area where there is less equipment and doctors than the norm, tests for non-emergencies might result in a long wait. ======================= That's part of the point, idiot. How do you know if it's an emergency without the test? You really are that stupid, aren't you? Take a look into low birth weight babies born in Canada vs the US. Being born low weight to a Canadian family is a greater risk that being born to a African-American family in the US. Where does that fit in with your ill-concieved ideas that the 'poor' in the US suffer, while no-one in Canada does? Where are you getting that information? ======================= Try getting it yourself. You're the one in canada.... As I suspected. More yakety yak by someone who has no idea. ========================== LOL Thanks for proving that you are ignorant of computer use. Your statement does not compute. ======================= Of course not, not to someone that apparently dosen't know how to use theirs, eh? Logic system failure. ==================== Yes, you have failed at alot of things here. Core logic meltdown. ============== Yes, you are there. As far as making ignorant claims, there are more than a few that you have never backed up. This is a weasely way of admitting that you can't back up your claim. ==================== Nopde. Try again fool. I've even given you the hints... No hinting necessary weasel. ================= Of couirse not. You knew you were spouting idiocy when you started. You just weren't expecting to be called on your stupidity. You haven't called me on anything. ================== Yes, your ignorant jingoistic chest-thumping, fool. snippage... How many? What are they coming for? Why? ======================= Why do all yours allegedly prefer the canadian system? I've answered one reason right off the bat. No waits. In a couple of cases the treatments needed weren't life threatening, but very painful joint problems. They decided that their wait time, and being dosed with painkillers instead of treatment was medically unsound. They prefer the Canadian system because the standard of care is not dependent upon your income and you don't have to mortgage your house to get the treatment that you need. ==================== More strawmen, marching to the tune of your ideology, eh? Yes, you might indeed have to wait longer than you would like to treat something that is painful but not life-threatening. ===================== Again, that's the point idiot. You don't know what is and is not life-threatening without some of these teats. And, what isn't life-threatening at that very moment may be if you have to wait 2 years for the dianostic tests. As to the 'anywhere else on the planet', Canada barely ranks better than the US And yet, ranks better, by whatever standard you are using. ================ LOL Where have I ever claimed the US had no problems? You on the other hand are trying to defend the indefenseble. Not at all. So far you have pointed out that certain people looking for a very specific type of scan in a non-emergency situation in Newfoundland are having to wait a long time. This is a far cry from the statements about peopel dying in waiting lines that brought me into this goofy discussion. ========================== LOL That you have to fisate on one example says alot about your brainwashing. That you believe that that is the one and only case available to find is a hoot. It was your example. ================ Yes, one example of many. Why do you try to deny the months long wait lists acroos Canada? More chest thumping? What wait lists across Canada? All you have talked about is one isolated case in Newfoundland. I got involved in this thread because it was alleged that Canadians are dying in waiting lines. That is total crap. ================ Not according to som,e of your own media, unions, and universities, fool. And there hasn't been one piece of evidence to support the allegation, nothing but a story about Newfoundland, and nothing having to do with people dying while waiting. ==================== LOL Because YOU are afraid to research the data. Your idiocy would be exposed to yourself that way.. and both are in the 30s, from the top of best care. Both have serious problems, and jingoistically pounding your chest about being #30 doesn't really mean anything, does it? This means, logically, at the other end of the scale a very rich person may indeed opt to seek care elsewhere. ================ Again, yes, rather than to wait until they are an 'emergency' case. You have no clue. ===================== Yes, apparently more than you. There is no evidence of that. ==================== I've posted real data, from real sites. Perhaps so, but none to support your argument. ==================== LOL So, the sites I have posted have somehow said that there are no wait times in canada? Man, you do have comprhension problems, don't you? There are wait times in every medical system. Nobody in Canada is dying while waiting, as was alleged. ================== Not according to sources in your own country. You seem to be making it up as you go. Come on, provide more than just your say-so that there are no waiting lines for Canadian health-care. If you mean that somewhere in a doctor's office or emergency room someone is waiting, I have to agree. But no one is dying in a waiting line. ====================== An assertion that is not backed up by canadian sources. And for many, the decision is not to wait until then, but to go elsewhere for treatment. No one is dying in a waiting line as alleged. ================== Not according to sources in your own country. I went to the doctor just last Monday. I called on Friday. Got an appointment Monday afternoon. Received excellent care. Got a prescription, had it filled that day. What's the problem? ====================== ummm, one example. Somehow I get the feeling that one exmple for youis adequate, but I have to show that every Canadian is waiting for specialized treatment. see your ideology is still in control, rather that rationality. You seem to have some bizarre notions about how things work here, so I was sharing with you a real life example. ====================== LOL Yet when I shared 'one' example of the other extreme it was somenow not pertenent. Seems you have a bizarre notion of 'real life' examples. I gave you other real life examples as well. The fact that there is no evidence to sustantiate the allegation of people dying in waiting lines should of course been enough for you. ================== Not according to sources in your own country. You are basing your ridiculous views on an isolated situation in Newfoundland. That's like basing my view of US health care on some spot in Alaska. ===================== Isolated? What a hoot!!! Try some research fool. Start at the Fraser Institute. Surely you've heard of them. They're in Canada. I know all about the Fraser Institute. LOL. Now perhaps I have at least a partial explanation of where you are getting these crazy ideas. The secondary name for the Fraser Institue is "I wish George W. Bush was the Prime Minister of Canada." Asking what the Fraser Institute thinks about Canadian Health Care is like asking the NRA for objective advice on handguns. Only worse! ROFL ==================== They are but one. But nice to see your ideology won't let truth get in your way. Keep trying fool, maybe someday you'll learn something other than your brainwashed opinion. Heehee. You are so silly. =============== Teehee, and you are still an ignorant buffoon. At least I know that the Fraser Institute isn't the place to go for objective information. You really looked pathetic spouting off about that. You could just hear the collective guffaws! ======================= The data is there. that you reject it because of the messenger says more about your ideology than your intelligence. All it manages to do is promote a have vs have-not conflict. ? |
"Michael Daly" wrote in message ... On 20-Feb-2005, "rick" wrote: Start at the Fraser Institute. The Fraser Institute hardly constitutes an unbiased source. Sort of like getting your news from Fox. ================ Then try CBC, unions, and Universities. That you want to kill the messenger for putting all the data together says more about your desire to disinform than to rationally look at the data. Mike |
On 20-Feb-2005, Scott Weiser wrote:
It's so much cheaper and more economical to do it that way than to try to close the border. But the solution you propose is for us to close our border. Sorry, your problem - you fix it. Stop blaming everyone else. Mike |
On 20-Feb-2005, Scott Weiser wrote:
Doctors in the US don't go on strike because they are not granted a government controlled monopoly. Doctors in Canada have not been granted a government controlled monopoly. Try again, only this time, deal with the facts. Mike |
On 20-Feb-2005, Scott Weiser wrote:
And you're a moron with an IQ of 40 who drools on his keyboard. I'm sorry, you seem to have mistaken me for one of your friends. Mike |
rick says of KMAN:
============== Again, that's the point idiot. You don't know what is and is not life-threatening without some of these teats. =============== No, you friggin' idiot, but our doctors DO KNOW whether these tests are required for further diagnosis to continue. IF the tests are deemed to be necessary, by medical professionals, I can assure you, they get done. Let's remember, many tests are in the "nice to have but not essential" category. Further, let's not overlook the fact that American patients are very often "over tested". Many tests done in the USA are done not for diagnostic purposes but, rather, for "cover your ass against possible future litigation" purposes. Anecdotal: I took my daughter to the clinic in the nearby mall to have a doctor look at her soccer injury. An X-Ray was recommended. Today, after school, we went to the X-ray clinic, presented her medical plan number (for billing purposes), took a number, sat down, "waited" 20 minutes, and had the X-ray taken. Next door, others were going through the similar procedures for other diagnostic tests. No "waits"! Take a number. Wait (usually less than 30 minutes). Many satisfied patients every day. You're always on about "straw men", but that's no wonder: you're the one who constructs them. frtzw906 |
rick says, in reference to healthcare systems:
================= As does the Canadian one compared to many other systems. ================= I think the "healthcare" debate is an important one. I'm open to your input regarding what might be improvements to what Canada has. Or, in your opinion, is there a national system which you think is worth emulating? I don't think we need to be calling one another idiots (unless it's for guys who can't get past "if it's American it must be the best" positions). Anyway, I'm happy to explore alternate systems. frtzw906 |
"BCITORGB" wrote in message ups.com... rick says, in reference to healthcare systems: ================= As does the Canadian one compared to many other systems. ================= I think the "healthcare" debate is an important one. I'm open to your input regarding what might be improvements to what Canada has. Or, in your opinion, is there a national system which you think is worth emulating? I don't think we need to be calling one another idiots (unless it's for guys who can't get past "if it's American it must be the best" positions). ================ LOL In this case it applies to those that can't accept the problems in Canadian health care, and can't get passed the "it's Canadian and not American, so it has to be the best." Anyway, I'm happy to explore alternate systems. ================= Not if, like kman, you refuse to even accept that there are wait lists, and only 'localized' problems. frtzw906 |
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"BCITORGB" wrote in message oups.com... rick says of KMAN: ============== Again, that's the point idiot. You don't know what is and is not life-threatening without some of these teats. =============== No, you friggin' idiot, but our doctors DO KNOW whether these tests are required for further diagnosis to continue. IF the tests are deemed to be necessary, by medical professionals, I can assure you, they get done. ====================== In due time. Not necessarily when the doctor decides that the tests are warranted. That's the case, buffoon... Let's remember, many tests are in the "nice to have but not essential" category. Further, let's not overlook the fact that American patients are very often "over tested". Many tests done in the USA are done not for diagnostic purposes but, rather, for "cover your ass against possible future litigation" purposes. ====================== Again, the are tests that are not done without waits, whether they are life-threatening or not. Severe pain may not be immediately life threatening, but the constant dosing of pain killers to make the wait bearable can lead to other problems. Anecdotal: I took my daughter to the clinic in the nearby mall to have a doctor look at her soccer injury. An X-Ray was recommended. Today, after school, we went to the X-ray clinic, presented her medical plan number (for billing purposes), took a number, sat down, "waited" 20 minutes, and had the X-ray taken. Next door, others were going through the similar procedures for other diagnostic tests. No "waits"! Take a number. Wait (usually less than 30 minutes). Many satisfied patients every day. You're always on about "straw men", but that's no wonder: you're the one who constructs them. ================= Nope. I'm not the one relying on anecdotal, one person examples. frtzw906 |
|
rick, so really have nothing to offer.
cu frtzw906 |
KMAN, I suggested to rick that we take this debate to another level as
he alluded to being interested in discussions beyond Canada versus USA comparisons. However, when I asked him for examples of what he deemed to be better systems, he reverted to an adversarial stance. I have to conclude that he actually knows nothing at all about healthcare. I would welcome a healthcare discussion. For example, I'd really welcome input from anyone who knows something about Finland. Over the last 4-5 years I've marvelled as Finland scores high on a variety of international comparisons -- health, education, quality of life, economy. I'd love to know how they're doing it. I doubt, however, that rick can be of much help in that regard. frtzw906 |
"BCITORGB" wrote in message oups.com... ....Over the last 4-5 years I've marvelled as Finland scores high on a variety of international comparisons -- health, education, quality of life, economy. I'd love to know how they're doing it. They drink a lot. Wolfgang |
But Wolfgang, that applies to most of the nations in North Europe....
WOW! Eureka! I think you've got it! LOL. Thanks for the humor. frtzw906 |
"KMAN" wrote in message ... in article et, rick at wrote on 2/21/05 8:52 PM: "KMAN" wrote in message ... snippage... Who are they? When did they tell me this? ================ You tell me. Or, were you just making up the stuff you claimed about getting in for any test right away? What are you talking about? You can't get any test you want right away. ================ Wellthere you go. Thanks for finally admitting there are wait lists... Huh? I never said nobody has to wait. I've mentioned at least a dozen times that it is possible someone would have to wait for a certain procedure. But so it is with any system. What I said was no one is dying waiting for medical care as has been alleged. =-=============== Which you have failed to refute the Canadian sites that say otherwise. However, you can get excellent care most everywhere and in the event of living in a geographically isolated area or some other area where there is less equipment and doctors than the norm, tests for non-emergencies might result in a long wait. ======================= That's part of the point, idiot. How do you know if it's an emergency without the test? You really are that stupid, aren't you? Don't be silly. We aren't talking about someone coming to the hospital and not getting any tests done. The type of tests where someone is waiting is where the medical issue is known and the situation is known to be non life-threatening. ===================== Your ideology is really entrenced, isn't it? There are 'life threatening' causes that can't be known without some tests. So, as long as you're walking and talking, you get to wait until it is life threatening, eh? As far as making ignorant claims, there are more than a few that you have never backed up. This is a weasely way of admitting that you can't back up your claim. ==================== Nopde. Try again fool. I've even given you the hints... No hinting necessary weasel. ================= Of couirse not. You knew you were spouting idiocy when you started. You just weren't expecting to be called on your stupidity. You haven't called me on anything. ================== Yes, your ignorant jingoistic chest-thumping, fool. More of your brilliance on display. ===================== No, more of the truth about your constant denial. How many? What are they coming for? Why? ======================= Why do all yours allegedly prefer the canadian system? I've answered one reason right off the bat. No waits. In a couple of cases the treatments needed weren't life threatening, but very painful joint problems. They decided that their wait time, and being dosed with painkillers instead of treatment was medically unsound. They prefer the Canadian system because the standard of care is not dependent upon your income and you don't have to mortgage your house to get the treatment that you need. ==================== More strawmen, marching to the tune of your ideology, eh? No, that's one of the things that gets mentioned most often. You asked what they say, and I told you. Maybe at least as often they mention how in Canada the doctor and institution are there to focus on your care, and in the US it feels like you are just a commodity being used to generate as much cash as possible. ===================== LOL Such altruistic doctors you have there. What a hoot! Yes, you might indeed have to wait longer than you would like to treat something that is painful but not life-threatening. ===================== Again, that's the point idiot. You don't know what is and is not life-threatening without some of these teats. And, what isn't life-threatening at that very moment may be if you have to wait 2 years for the dianostic tests. It's too bad you are so busy engaging in name-calling and propping up your ego that you aren't willing to learn something. ===================== I have. I've learned that you are too jingoistic to step back and take a real look at your system. You're too engaged in making comparisions to others. You obviously know nothing about this, and you are making a joke of yourself. =============== tell that to the CBC, unions and Universities in Canada. they ahve the information, if you weren't too afraid to find out the truth. There is no one waiting to have their health problems diagnosed. ===================== BS People who are waiting (I don't know anyone myself who is waiting for any type of care, elective or otherwise) ================== And you're personally intamate with the health needs of ever Canadian, eh? My, maybe you should run for god. have known medical issues that are continually monitored. Just because someone has to wait for a certain type of scan doesn't mean they aren't still receiving medical care. ====================== care that might not be the best they could get, of passibly life threatening. As to the 'anywhere else on the planet', Canada barely ranks better than the US And yet, ranks better, by whatever standard you are using. ================ LOL Where have I ever claimed the US had no problems? You on the other hand are trying to defend the indefenseble. Not at all. So far you have pointed out that certain people looking for a very specific type of scan in a non-emergency situation in Newfoundland are having to wait a long time. This is a far cry from the statements about peopel dying in waiting lines that brought me into this goofy discussion. ========================== LOL That you have to fisate on one example says alot about your brainwashing. That you believe that that is the one and only case available to find is a hoot. It was your example. ================ Yes, one example of many. Why do you try to deny the months long wait lists acroos Canada? More chest thumping? What wait lists across Canada? All you have talked about is one isolated case in Newfoundland. I got involved in this thread because it was alleged that Canadians are dying in waiting lines. That is total crap. ================ Not according to som,e of your own media, unions, and universities, fool. A fool makes an accusation without evidence to support it. If you are alleging that Canadians are dying waiting to receive health care, prove it. Otherwise, you know exactly what you are. ==================== LOL Where's you proof fool? refute waht your own media, unions and Universties say. You haven't even tried. All you've done is thump your chest about how great your system is. We're # 30, we're #30!! Wow, what an acheivement! And there hasn't been one piece of evidence to support the allegation, nothing but a story about Newfoundland, and nothing having to do with people dying while waiting. ==================== LOL Because YOU are afraid to research the data. Your idiocy would be exposed to yourself that way.. Yawn. More weasel words. Let's face facts, if you could possible post information to make you look a bit less stupid, you would do so. You can't because it doesn't exist. ============================= LOL Then you should post it fool. Come on. make me look like the idiot you have already shown yourself to be. Again, try your own media, unions, and universities. But we already know you are afraid to bring facts into your argument, eh? and both are in the 30s, from the top of best care. Both have serious problems, and jingoistically pounding your chest about being #30 doesn't really mean anything, does it? This means, logically, at the other end of the scale a very rich person may indeed opt to seek care elsewhere. ================ Again, yes, rather than to wait until they are an 'emergency' case. You have no clue. ===================== Yes, apparently more than you. There is no evidence of that. ==================== I've posted real data, from real sites. Perhaps so, but none to support your argument. ==================== LOL So, the sites I have posted have somehow said that there are no wait times in canada? Man, you do have comprhension problems, don't you? There are wait times in every medical system. Nobody in Canada is dying while waiting, as was alleged. ================== Not according to sources in your own country. You haven't shown us any. ===================== LOL I've already told you a number of times, try your own media, unions and universities. That you are too afraid to look, or too stupid to know how doesn't make the information any less available. You seem to be making it up as you go. Come on, provide more than just your say-so that there are no waiting lines for Canadian health-care. If you mean that somewhere in a doctor's office or emergency room someone is waiting, I have to agree. But no one is dying in a waiting line. ====================== An assertion that is not backed up by canadian sources. And for many, the decision is not to wait until then, but to go elsewhere for treatment. No one is dying in a waiting line as alleged. ================== Not according to sources in your own country. You haven't shown us any. ======================= Yes, I have. You choose not to accept it because iof your jingoistic chest thumping. I went to the doctor just last Monday. I called on Friday. Got an appointment Monday afternoon. Received excellent care. Got a prescription, had it filled that day. What's the problem? ====================== ummm, one example. Somehow I get the feeling that one exmple for youis adequate, but I have to show that every Canadian is waiting for specialized treatment. see your ideology is still in control, rather that rationality. You seem to have some bizarre notions about how things work here, so I was sharing with you a real life example. ====================== LOL Yet when I shared 'one' example of the other extreme it was somenow not pertenent. It was "pertenent" in that it shows that in a geographically isolated area of Canada with a small population the standard of care is a behind what is available elsewhere. ========================== LOL But somehow your own 'one' example proves that the rest of the country is fine. You really are stupid enough to believe that, aren't you? That's unfortunate, and it is something all Canadians want improved. But your example does nothing to demonstrate that people in Canada are dying waiting for treatment as has been alleged. ===================== Then it should be easy to disprove those claims by your own media, unions and universities, shouldn't it? Seems you have a bizarre notion of 'real life' examples. I gave you other real life examples as well. I fully acknowledged your example. ============== That was plural fool. The fact that there is no evidence to sustantiate the allegation of people dying in waiting lines should of course been enough for you. ================== Not according to sources in your own country. You haven't provided any. Thus far they are only in your mind. ================ Again, yes I have. You are basing your ridiculous views on an isolated situation in Newfoundland. That's like basing my view of US health care on some spot in Alaska. ===================== Isolated? What a hoot!!! Try some research fool. Start at the Fraser Institute. Surely you've heard of them. They're in Canada. I know all about the Fraser Institute. LOL. Now perhaps I have at least a partial explanation of where you are getting these crazy ideas. The secondary name for the Fraser Institue is "I wish George W. Bush was the Prime Minister of Canada." Asking what the Fraser Institute thinks about Canadian Health Care is like asking the NRA for objective advice on handguns. Only worse! ROFL ==================== They are but one. But nice to see your ideology won't let truth get in your way. Keep trying fool, maybe someday you'll learn something other than your brainwashed opinion. Heehee. You are so silly. =============== Teehee, and you are still an ignorant buffoon. At least I know that the Fraser Institute isn't the place to go for objective information. You really looked pathetic spouting off about that. You could just hear the collective guffaws! ======================= The data is there. that you reject it because of the messenger says more about your ideology than your intelligence. Christ, I can go to this or that institute that has data to prove that the Holocaust never happened. The messenger is hardly irrelevant. This has nothing to do with ideology for me. The Fraser Institute, on the other hand, is well known and commonly ridiculed for their voracious right-wing ideology. ========================== ROTFLMAO And you as independent as the driven snow. Stop, you're killing me!! Oh well, at least i can get tested right away, eh? |
in article et, rick at
wrote on 2/21/05 11:37 PM: "KMAN" wrote in message ... in article et, rick at wrote on 2/21/05 8:52 PM: "KMAN" wrote in message ... snippage... Who are they? When did they tell me this? ================ You tell me. Or, were you just making up the stuff you claimed about getting in for any test right away? What are you talking about? You can't get any test you want right away. ================ Wellthere you go. Thanks for finally admitting there are wait lists... Huh? I never said nobody has to wait. I've mentioned at least a dozen times that it is possible someone would have to wait for a certain procedure. But so it is with any system. What I said was no one is dying waiting for medical care as has been alleged. =-=============== Which you have failed to refute the Canadian sites that say otherwise. What "Canadian sites that say otherwise" you haven't provided any. However, you can get excellent care most everywhere and in the event of living in a geographically isolated area or some other area where there is less equipment and doctors than the norm, tests for non-emergencies might result in a long wait. ======================= That's part of the point, idiot. How do you know if it's an emergency without the test? You really are that stupid, aren't you? Don't be silly. We aren't talking about someone coming to the hospital and not getting any tests done. The type of tests where someone is waiting is where the medical issue is known and the situation is known to be non life-threatening. ===================== Your ideology is really entrenced, isn't it? There are 'life threatening' causes that can't be known without some tests. So, as long as you're walking and talking, you get to wait until it is life threatening, eh? Unless you are suggesting that every single human being should be receiving every single medical test possible every single minute of the day, your line of argument here is goofy at best. As far as making ignorant claims, there are more than a few that you have never backed up. This is a weasely way of admitting that you can't back up your claim. ==================== Nopde. Try again fool. I've even given you the hints... No hinting necessary weasel. ================= Of couirse not. You knew you were spouting idiocy when you started. You just weren't expecting to be called on your stupidity. You haven't called me on anything. ================== Yes, your ignorant jingoistic chest-thumping, fool. More of your brilliance on display. ===================== No, more of the truth about your constant denial. Denial of what? Show me some facts that I have denied. Please quote. How many? What are they coming for? Why? ======================= Why do all yours allegedly prefer the canadian system? I've answered one reason right off the bat. No waits. In a couple of cases the treatments needed weren't life threatening, but very painful joint problems. They decided that their wait time, and being dosed with painkillers instead of treatment was medically unsound. They prefer the Canadian system because the standard of care is not dependent upon your income and you don't have to mortgage your house to get the treatment that you need. ==================== More strawmen, marching to the tune of your ideology, eh? No, that's one of the things that gets mentioned most often. You asked what they say, and I told you. Maybe at least as often they mention how in Canada the doctor and institution are there to focus on your care, and in the US it feels like you are just a commodity being used to generate as much cash as possible. ===================== LOL Such altruistic doctors you have there. What a hoot! The Canadian medical system enables doctors to care more about healing than earning than you would find in a profit-driven system. Not to say that doctors here are hurting for cash. Yes, you might indeed have to wait longer than you would like to treat something that is painful but not life-threatening. ===================== Again, that's the point idiot. You don't know what is and is not life-threatening without some of these teats. And, what isn't life-threatening at that very moment may be if you have to wait 2 years for the dianostic tests. It's too bad you are so busy engaging in name-calling and propping up your ego that you aren't willing to learn something. ===================== I have. I've learned that you are too jingoistic to step back and take a real look at your system. You're too engaged in making comparisions to others. I have direct experience with both systems. I prefer the Canadian system for practical as well as ethical reasons. You obviously know nothing about this, and you are making a joke of yourself. =============== tell that to the CBC, unions and Universities in Canada. they ahve the information, if you weren't too afraid to find out the truth. Show us the truth. We are waiting! There is no one waiting to have their health problems diagnosed. ===================== BS Show us the truth! We are waiting. People who are waiting (I don't know anyone myself who is waiting for any type of care, elective or otherwise) ================== And you're personally intamate with the health needs of ever Canadian, eh? My, maybe you should run for god. I've got a pretty good sampling of contacts at my disposal. I also used to manage a national network of educators and health care was a common topic. have known medical issues that are continually monitored. Just because someone has to wait for a certain type of scan doesn't mean they aren't still receiving medical care. ====================== care that might not be the best they could get, of passibly life threatening. The best you could get would be constant testing and monitoring every minute of the day. This is definitely not happening, here or anywhere else. But getting back to what actually brought me into this discussion, Canadians are not dying in line waiting for medical care. And you can't present any evidence that they are, because it doesn't exist. As to the 'anywhere else on the planet', Canada barely ranks better than the US And yet, ranks better, by whatever standard you are using. ================ LOL Where have I ever claimed the US had no problems? You on the other hand are trying to defend the indefenseble. Not at all. So far you have pointed out that certain people looking for a very specific type of scan in a non-emergency situation in Newfoundland are having to wait a long time. This is a far cry from the statements about peopel dying in waiting lines that brought me into this goofy discussion. ========================== LOL That you have to fisate on one example says alot about your brainwashing. That you believe that that is the one and only case available to find is a hoot. It was your example. ================ Yes, one example of many. Why do you try to deny the months long wait lists acroos Canada? More chest thumping? What wait lists across Canada? All you have talked about is one isolated case in Newfoundland. I got involved in this thread because it was alleged that Canadians are dying in waiting lines. That is total crap. ================ Not according to som,e of your own media, unions, and universities, fool. A fool makes an accusation without evidence to support it. If you are alleging that Canadians are dying waiting to receive health care, prove it. Otherwise, you know exactly what you are. ==================== LOL Where's you proof fool? refute waht your own media, unions and Universties say. There's nothing to refute. They don't say as you allege. You haven't even tried. All you've done is thump your chest about how great your system is. We're # 30, we're #30!! Wow, what an acheivement! There's nothing to refute. You haven't presented any evidence to substantiate your position, because there isn't any. And there hasn't been one piece of evidence to support the allegation, nothing but a story about Newfoundland, and nothing having to do with people dying while waiting. ==================== LOL Because YOU are afraid to research the data. Your idiocy would be exposed to yourself that way.. Yawn. More weasel words. Let's face facts, if you could possible post information to make you look a bit less stupid, you would do so. You can't because it doesn't exist. ============================= LOL Then you should post it fool. Come on. make me look like the idiot You've managed that all on your own. I'm actually starting to feel sorry for you. I am realizing that your rude and aggressive behaviour is all just part of your weakness. you have already shown yourself to be. Again, try your own media, unions, and universities. But we already know you are afraid to bring facts into your argument, eh? I didn't make the allegation that Canadians are dying in line waiting for medical care. It's obviously up to the person making the allegation to present evidence. I'd be happy to refute any such evidence, but none has been provided. That is because none exists. and both are in the 30s, from the top of best care. Both have serious problems, and jingoistically pounding your chest about being #30 doesn't really mean anything, does it? This means, logically, at the other end of the scale a very rich person may indeed opt to seek care elsewhere. ================ Again, yes, rather than to wait until they are an 'emergency' case. You have no clue. ===================== Yes, apparently more than you. There is no evidence of that. ==================== I've posted real data, from real sites. Perhaps so, but none to support your argument. ==================== LOL So, the sites I have posted have somehow said that there are no wait times in canada? Man, you do have comprhension problems, don't you? There are wait times in every medical system. Nobody in Canada is dying while waiting, as was alleged. ================== Not according to sources in your own country. You haven't shown us any. ===================== LOL I've already told you a number of times, try your own media, unions and universities. I have. No such evidence exists. That you are too afraid to look, or too stupid to know how doesn't make the information any less available. It does not exist. You seem to be making it up as you go. Come on, provide more than just your say-so that there are no waiting lines for Canadian health-care. If you mean that somewhere in a doctor's office or emergency room someone is waiting, I have to agree. But no one is dying in a waiting line. ====================== An assertion that is not backed up by canadian sources. And for many, the decision is not to wait until then, but to go elsewhere for treatment. No one is dying in a waiting line as alleged. ================== Not according to sources in your own country. You haven't shown us any. ======================= Yes, I have. You choose not to accept it because iof your jingoistic chest thumping. You have not shown any evidence that anyone in Canada has died waiting in line for care. I went to the doctor just last Monday. I called on Friday. Got an appointment Monday afternoon. Received excellent care. Got a prescription, had it filled that day. What's the problem? ====================== ummm, one example. Somehow I get the feeling that one exmple for youis adequate, but I have to show that every Canadian is waiting for specialized treatment. see your ideology is still in control, rather that rationality. You seem to have some bizarre notions about how things work here, so I was sharing with you a real life example. ====================== LOL Yet when I shared 'one' example of the other extreme it was somenow not pertenent. It was "pertenent" in that it shows that in a geographically isolated area of Canada with a small population the standard of care is a behind what is available elsewhere. ========================== LOL But somehow your own 'one' example proves that the rest of the country is fine. You really are stupid enough to believe that, aren't you? The allegation is that people in Canada are dying in waiting lines. You've provided no evidence whatsoever to that effect. That's unfortunate, and it is something all Canadians want improved. But your example does nothing to demonstrate that people in Canada are dying waiting for treatment as has been alleged. ===================== Then it should be easy to disprove those claims by your own media, unions and universities, shouldn't it? Unfortunately I can't find any university, union, or media source that says "Rick Etter's ridiculous allegations are false." I also haven't found any evidence from those sources that proves George W Bush is not in fact a cockroach. Seems you have a bizarre notion of 'real life' examples. I gave you other real life examples as well. I fully acknowledged your example. ============== That was plural fool. I've acknowledged all of the information you provided, none of which does anything to prove the allegation that people are dying in wait lines. The fact that there is no evidence to sustantiate the allegation of people dying in waiting lines should of course been enough for you. ================== Not according to sources in your own country. You haven't provided any. Thus far they are only in your mind. ================ Again, yes I have. Please quote from one of your sources that says people are dying in wait lines and I will be happy to apologize. You are basing your ridiculous views on an isolated situation in Newfoundland. That's like basing my view of US health care on some spot in Alaska. ===================== Isolated? What a hoot!!! Try some research fool. Start at the Fraser Institute. Surely you've heard of them. They're in Canada. I know all about the Fraser Institute. LOL. Now perhaps I have at least a partial explanation of where you are getting these crazy ideas. The secondary name for the Fraser Institue is "I wish George W. Bush was the Prime Minister of Canada." Asking what the Fraser Institute thinks about Canadian Health Care is like asking the NRA for objective advice on handguns. Only worse! ROFL ==================== They are but one. But nice to see your ideology won't let truth get in your way. Keep trying fool, maybe someday you'll learn something other than your brainwashed opinion. Heehee. You are so silly. =============== Teehee, and you are still an ignorant buffoon. At least I know that the Fraser Institute isn't the place to go for objective information. You really looked pathetic spouting off about that. You could just hear the collective guffaws! ======================= The data is there. that you reject it because of the messenger says more about your ideology than your intelligence. Christ, I can go to this or that institute that has data to prove that the Holocaust never happened. The messenger is hardly irrelevant. This has nothing to do with ideology for me. The Fraser Institute, on the other hand, is well known and commonly ridiculed for their voracious right-wing ideology. ========================== ROTFLMAO And you as independent as the driven snow. Stop, you're killing me!! Oh well, at least i can get tested right away, eh? I think some testing is definitely in order, and I think you are right on this one...pay whatever you need to pay to move to the front of the line. Your need for help is urgent. |
"BCITORGB" wrote in message ups.com... rick, so really have nothing to offer. ===============\ LOL Unlike you and kman I have provided information. You have not. Guess we know now who is tap dancing around, eh? cu frtzw906 |
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