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#11
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I am a sea kayak instructor in Sydney Australia and regularly have to
pick punters out of the water when they take a swim. A couple of comments that you can try: Firstly your lack of upper body strength is not unusual and the other female instructor I teach with is almost identical to you in proportions but has fragile shoulders from past injuries thrown in. She also has problems getting people into boats due to size constraints so you are not alone in this. I'm 6'2 and 13 stone and I sure as hell don't try dragging boats over my kayak to empty them out 'cos they're too heavy when full of water! And they will capsize you in the process which helps no-one. None of the instructors haul boats out of the water that way - very poor OHS. We do it by going into a T pattern (with you at the top of the T) grabbing the nose of the boat and getting the victim to throw their weight on the stern to get the cockpit clear of water. This pivots the boat up and a lot of the water will run out. A careful flick will bring the boat back down with the cockpit clear of the water so it doesn't flood again. Talk to the victim so you coordinate your lift with their heave. Also when picking the nose up do it gently to break the suction caused by the cockpit - this makes a huge difference in resistance when pulling up. Residual water can be dealt with via pumps and sponges when the person is back in thiner boat. This operation is very effective and minimises strain on you. And with practice can be done really fast. Getting bigger people back into their boat is accomplished by a scoop rescue which sounds like what you are using. You can get them to do most of the work though reducing strain on you. Come along side the boat with them between the boats and you lean right over their boat - really commit and lean your boat on the side. They put one arm over each boat and wiggle their feet into the cockpit. The key is to make sure they get their bum right into the seat. This will partially right thiner boat and then get them to lean away from your boat and their boat will roll upright. Your job is only to steady them and make sure they don't tip over too far. Minimal stress on you. Very effective. You will have to get the H20 out of their boat then but they are back in at any rate. Pumps and sponges are the go there. On group management when you are doing a rescue - get them to form into a tight group and paddle gently into the waves/wind. This keeps them together and minimses the chance of a second capsize. Also you can keep half an eye on them. If someone is more competent then make them 2IC and keep the rest of the group together. I don't like the sound of 1:8 ratio but it is legal or recommended by the BCU. We always have an assistant who is delegated to do the rescues so the group leader controls the rest of the group. I hope this is useful to you. Richard Birdsey |
#12
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ChipsCheeseandMayo wrote:
Never thought of using the drain plug (hangs head in shame). Not sure I could actually get the drain plug clear of the water, but hell I'll give it a try As Wilko typed, you don't need to! Consider: If the bow is lifted up, sitting on the deck of one of the other students, and you are at the stern and have unscrewed the plug, the stern will probably be floating four or five inches below water-level. But YOU DO NOT HAVE TO LIFT THE DRAIN OUT OF THE WATER for it to work. Lift the stern 1/2 inch and the waterling INSIDE will be 1/2 inch above the waterline OUTSIDE, and that 1/2 inch of water will drain out. Now raise the stern another 1/2 inch, and that much more water will drain out. In other words, you do not have to lift the weight of ALL the water at one time; just lift a little at a time. 'Course, you WILL have to lift most of the weight of the kayak along with that 1/2 inch of water... -Richard, His Kanubic Travesty -- ================================================== ==================== Richard Hopley Winston-Salem, NC, USA rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters ================================================== ==================== |
#13
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"Oci-One Kanubi" wrote in
oups.com: John Fereira typed: [lotsa good advice] And finally (without questioning the wisdom of the whole operaton -- putting novices in ill-equipped boats in potentially fatal conditions) I wonder why you cannot use one or two of the other students, who are still IN their boats, to help. Good point. I took a rescue skills class at a skills symposium a few years ago taught by Nigel Dennis (for those that don't know the name he's the designer and owner of NDK kayaks. The NDK Romany is probably one of the most popular expedition touring kayaks on the market). In any case, for the scoop rescue, one paddler would perform the "scoop" of the victim while a third would help stablize the rescuers boat. The rescue skills class was quite good in general as it had us perform all kinds of variations that might be useful under a variety of conditions, including low upper body strength by the rescuer. Yeh, sure they are all novice boaters, but typically one or more of them will be competant and confidant in physical activities, won't they? Have yer two most confident and stable students raft up, get one end of the victim boat up on their raft, and then you can paddle about that assemblage to do whatever must be done. Again, a good point. During beginners classes I taught the instructor will only demonstrate once (and if there are two instructors the other acts as victim). After that the students are walked through rescues of each other. This is especially useful couples taking the class together as they're most likely going to be paddling with each other after the class. But the easiest highly effective solution, if you are working without spraydecks, is to just two- or three-centimeter (diameter) drain *holes* through the top deck at each end. Then you don't have to lift all that weight of water at one time to shift it toward the cockpit; just lift the downhill end a few millimeters at a time; as long as you lift the interior waterlevel a hair above the exterior waterlevel, it will drain. 'Course, if these are multi-use boats which are sometimes used with speardecks, you will need to install drainplugs rather than just drill holes. But for yer novice classes, when you must, you can easily reach beneath a capsized boat to open the plug. I don't get this. The goal of the class isn't to perform a successful rescue in the context of the class setting. The goal of the class is, or at least should be, to teach a skill that can be practiced, perfected, and called upon when necessary if it really needed. Unless the students are going to be paddling similar multi-use boats you can't very well asked them to drill holes in the decks of their own boats to assist someone else in rescueing them. I don't think I've ever seen a touring kayak that had drain plugs unless you count recreational boats (which I don't in the touring category). I've only done a small amount of whitewater kayaking so I have to ask how often an assisted deep water rescue is used involving whitewater kayaks in real conditions. My guess is almost never. Either the whitewater paddler learns how and employs a roll or they swim, make their way to shore and collect the yard sale floating down the river as best they can. If another boater is used an assist for a resuce it's more likely going to be an assisted eskimo rescue off their bow, or if it's a swimmer, a tow to shore. Furthermore, in the case of recreational style kayaks that might be equipped with a drain plug it is rare that you'll also find them equipped with float bags, and thus my contention is that they should probably not be used further from shore than one can swim if one insist on paddling in conditions that are likely to cause a capsize in such a stable boat. Bottom line, assisted rescues skills as taught in the OP's class are typicaly only going to be used by those paddling in a sea kayak in deep water. If someone capsizes in a kayak 1/2 mile off shore in cold water it's mandatory that they get back in the boat and upright and that's what these skills are supposed to teach. It seems to me that the biggest problem here is the choice of kayaks used for instruction and the reluctance of the shop to provide an assistant. It doesn't sound like the boat models used are typical of the kind one would paddle when an assisted rescue would ever be used. Even an assistant with a minimal amount of experience but with greater arm strength should have not trouble demonstrating the techniques. Having the assistant perform the demo while the primary instructor talks through it would probably be a better teaching technique anyway. |
#14
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Hi ChipsCheeseandmayo .
I help instruct, guide and have a ball teaching people to paddle. I weigh 185 lbs ( that I will admit to ) stand 5'8" and am 48 years old. I am not an athlete. When I have a double go over ( Sea kayak different but the same in that I can't lift a WS Seatwo.) I ask, (TELL IN AN ASSERTIVE CONFIDENT TONE) the casualties to grab the bow ans stern of my boat and I take the double along side. I turn it on its side with the cockpit facing me , grab the comming and just lean over the other way. My weight will gradually empty the water ( sort of slowly ) and all I am holding up is my weight. The person in the water closest to the ruder is warned to avoid the pointy metel. The doubles own floatation helps, the leaverage of my own boat helps and I never empty it but there is enough out that the casualties can get back in and we can pump her out. This is on the ocean in Newfoundland Canada so COLD is the word. Oh, When this happens the trip is over. We get the people in, dry them off and warm them up. We have a ratio of 1/6 guides to clients no more often less. The clients boats have bailers and the giude boats carry 2 pumps. Most clients have little or no experience and this is the ocean. I paddle an NDK Explorer and a P & H Capella. Good Luck Alex http://pages.ivillage.com/mcgruer that is a vanity site. |
#15
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John Fereira wrote:
"Oci-One Kanubi" wrote in oups.com: John Fereira typed: [lotsa good advice] [snip] But the easiest highly effective solution, if you are working without spraydecks, is to just two- or three-centimeter (diameter) drain *holes* through the top deck at each end. Then you don't have to lift all that weight of water at one time to shift it toward the cockpit; just lift the downhill end a few millimeters at a time; as long as you lift the interior waterlevel a hair above the exterior waterlevel, it will drain. 'Course, if these are multi-use boats which are sometimes used with speardecks, you will need to install drainplugs rather than just drill holes. But for yer novice classes, when you must, you can easily reach beneath a capsized boat to open the plug. I don't get this. The goal of the class isn't to perform a successful rescue in the context of the class setting. The goal of the class is, or at least should be, to teach a skill that can be practiced, perfected, and called upon when necessary if it really needed. [snip] Actually, if you read from the OPs first message, I think you will agree that "to perform a successful rescue in the context of the class setting" is EXACXTLY her goal. It sounds like she works for a buncha cheapskates that follow no serious teaching standards (since they refuse to provide a second instructor, or, at a minimum, an experienced safety boater), from which I draw the further inference that this is not a place to get serious kayak instruction, but a place that just kinda sticks tourists on the water for a few hours so they can go home and say they "went kayaking". The OP is trying to give her students decent and safe instruction despite the more simply mercenary aims of her employer. I think. See also said they use Pyranha Master kayaks. These look to me like whitewater boats (and appear to have drainplugs installed) and are categorized as "Whitewater Range; School/Fleet" (i.e., I imagine, a compromise between a whitewater and a rec boat) on the Pyranha website (http://www.pyranha.com/osb/itemdetails.cfm?ID=48) and described this way: "The Master TG is something totally new and fresh, with modern looks that will appeal to paddlers of all ages. It is designed for use as a general purpose elementary kayak on rivers with small easy rapids, lakes and coastal areas where full specification WW safety features are not required. With it's unique optional 'Flexi-Skeg' system it is an ideal instructional WW kayak or short distance flat-water touring kayak. "Designed using the very latest in modern features from the proven H3 and i3 series to optimize the learning experience. The TG has great stability and an easy going feel combined with innovative ideas such as the molded in carry handles, low maintenance adjustable outfitting and full plate footrest ( deluxe model only ). The Master TG is a kayak that only enhances peoples introduction to the sport and will prove to be a very cost effective asset for any fleet or instructional user as well as the general paddler. Unless the students are going to be paddling similar multi-use boats you can't very well asked them to drill holes in the decks of their own boats to assist someone else in rescueing them. I don't think I've ever seen a touring kayak that had drain plugs unless you count recreational boats (which I don't in the touring category). It's fairly clear that these are livery boats; these first timers taking a "taster" course don't have boats of their own. I've only done a small amount of whitewater kayaking so I have to ask how often an assisted deep water rescue is used involving whitewater kayaks in real conditions. My guess is almost never. Either the whitewater paddler learns how and employs a roll or they swim, make their way to shore and collect the yard sale floating down the river as best they can. If another boater is used an assist for a resuce it's more likely going to be an assisted eskimo rescue off their bow, or if it's a swimmer, a tow to shore. She also typed "[i]ts not sea kayaking, but flat water kayaking in beginner boats...". I have the impression it is in a loch or a bay. You are replying to an ideal situation, where people are taking serious seakayaking lessons, so you expect safety and rescue techniques to be included as part of the subject matter. She is in an entirely different situation, I think, probably with only a half-day class in which she can only cover the basics of making a boat go straight, and has to provide all the safety by herself. It seems to me that the biggest problem here is ... and the reluctance of the shop to provide an assistant. Amen. -Richard, His Kanubic Travesty -- ================================================== ==================== Richard Hopley Winston-Salem, NC, USA .. rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net .. Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll .. rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu .. OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters ================================================== ==================== |
#16
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Oci-One - Bang on! this is exactly the sitation I am working in. In a
three hour session I have to give the clients a good time and a taste for kayaking.in a remote location with no backup. These same clients will not be returning there is no ongoing coaching process. |
#17
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ChipsCheeseandMayo wrote: Oci-One - Bang on! this is exactly the sitation I am working in. In a three hour session I have to give the clients a good time and a taste for kayaking.in a remote location with no backup. These same clients will not be returning there is no ongoing coaching process. Hi Chipscheeseand mayo. I was not going to go there. The rescue I told you about. "pulling the boat on its side close to yours and emptying it out slowly " works well. I used a local guide ( A petite and beautifull young lady who works for O'Briens Tours in Bay Bulls ) She likely weighs about 110 Lbs. She managed to rescue me after a little work. The boats used were my Prijon T Slalom ( yes I am old )and a Perception Dancer. both about the same or a little more akward than your WW boats. None had floatation. It works but is very akward. The last part was a bow to stern rescue and I pretty much had her boat down to the spray deck as I put all my weight there while turning into my own cockpit. The emptying program worked very well and the rescue in light wave action would be no problem. Bay Bulls Kayaking and O'Briens Boat tours have a strict 1 - 6 ratio. They also have marine VHF and as they are a tour business they have a FRC ( Fast Rescue Craft ) with twin Honda 90's to get to a problem. The kayak guides are OK. We don't have a lot of BCU or Canadian CRCA permeation into the guiding community yet. it is getting there. Most spots are not as well covered for rescue help as Bay Bulls. Cape Broyle has Stan Cook and he sticks with 1 - 6 or tries to. We have some kayak safety guide lines for adventure racing that you may be interested in. Drop me a line with Kayak in the subject bar and I will send it to you. Good Luck Alex McGruer |