After years of flat and easy downriver canoeing in my Old Town
Discovery 164, I'd like to pick up a second boat that would be used
primariy solo on moderate western whitewater (Class 1-II with occasion
Class III). A local shop is selling a new Probe 14 for $700 without
seats, etc but I'm wondering if this represents too much of a playboat
for my needs.
Ideally, I'm looking for:
- lower weight (for solo loading on my full-sized van)
- dry and manueverable
- sufficient bouyancy for a 6',200lb solo paddler with weekend camping
gear
- sufficient size for an occasional youth tandem configuration (I'm a
Scout paddle trip leader)

Any advice cheerfully accepted.

Bill

Scouter wrote:

After years of flat and easy downriver canoeing in my Old Town
Discovery 164, I'd like to pick up a second boat that would be used
primariy solo on moderate western whitewater (Class 1-II with occasion
Class III). A local shop is selling a new Probe 14 for $700 without
seats, etc but I'm wondering if this represents too much of a playboat
for my needs.
Ideally, I'm looking for:
- lower weight (for solo loading on my full-sized van)
- dry and manueverable
- sufficient bouyancy for a 6',200lb solo paddler with weekend camping
gear
- sufficient size for an occasional youth tandem configuration (I'm a
Scout paddle trip leader)

Any advice cheerfully accepted.

Bill



my 1st choice for your situation would be an Old Town regular Tripper
17'2" which is just one size down from the prime workhorse of northern
New England outfitters, the XL-Tripper (20'). There are many hairs that
one could split. But beating the XL-20 is not easily done on paper on on
water - especially quick water; the smaller version is fine in many
respects but still the full-sized Tripper is beyond compare. (I have no
ties w/ Old Town other than ownership.) I've had many canoes & the XL-20
is The King. It will haul 1700# in all but the very worst conditions;
under a light load it's like a cockle shell. Except for specialty
situations - read here the mindless jerks who need a series of jerks to
know thy've been canoeing - I can think of no sturdier a workhorse
that's responsive to one paddler or two (or even two pollers if you know
what that's about).

Pete Hilton (Reg. Me. Guide) aka The Ent

--
Either everyone has rights or some have privileges.
It's really that simple.
Walt Kelly

If you want to push into class three than you want more of a "playboat". I
really wouldn't consider a probe 14 to be a cutting edge playboat. (I'm
thinking Ocoee or Mohawk"s 10' rodeo. The 14 would be a good choice. You
want the volumn for camping. My wife and I have done week long trips on
class 3+ water fully self contained with a Whitesell 14 and a Mad River ME
(15') (Middle fork Salmon. Klamath, Rogue, Etc.

"Michael Hearn Anna Houpt" wrote in message
...
If you want to push into class three than you want more of a "playboat".
I
really wouldn't consider a probe 14 to be a cutting edge playboat. (I'm
thinking Ocoee or Mohawk"s 10' rodeo. The 14 would be a good choice. You
want the volumn for camping. My wife and I have done week long trips on
class 3+ water fully self contained with a Whitesell 14 and a Mad River ME
(15') (Middle fork Salmon. Klamath, Rogue, Etc.


Yeah, but not everyone is going to be comfortable in a playboat. Something
unstable like a Whitesell or an ME is only suitable for a self-contained
class 3+ run because of your skills. For most learners, I think they'd want
to get into whitewater in a tripping boat, rather than trip in a whitewater
boat.

I also have done plenty of class 3 self-contained camping, but of a
different nature; flat rivers with intermittent class 3 rapids, with sneak
routes or single obstacles to work through to avoid portaging (Lower
Canyon-Rio Grande, San Juan, East Branch Penobscot...) and I find that the
flat streches between the rapids would be torturous in a playboat. Even a
Canyon trip is very doable in a tripper, if rigged right. Remember, the
earliest 'playboats' were BlueHole OCAs and 17As, which are flat bottomed,
low rocker barges by today's standards. That being said, I ran my BH17A down
the Kennebec gorge, and it handled fine. It wasn't loaded, but I think I
could have managed Magic Falls even with gear in those days.

--riverman