"Michael Hearn Anna Houpt" wrote in message
...
If you want to push into class three than you want more of a "playboat".
I
really wouldn't consider a probe 14 to be a cutting edge playboat. (I'm
thinking Ocoee or Mohawk"s 10' rodeo. The 14 would be a good choice. You
want the volumn for camping. My wife and I have done week long trips on
class 3+ water fully self contained with a Whitesell 14 and a Mad River ME
(15') (Middle fork Salmon. Klamath, Rogue, Etc.


Yeah, but not everyone is going to be comfortable in a playboat. Something
unstable like a Whitesell or an ME is only suitable for a self-contained
class 3+ run because of your skills. For most learners, I think they'd want
to get into whitewater in a tripping boat, rather than trip in a whitewater
boat.

I also have done plenty of class 3 self-contained camping, but of a
different nature; flat rivers with intermittent class 3 rapids, with sneak
routes or single obstacles to work through to avoid portaging (Lower
Canyon-Rio Grande, San Juan, East Branch Penobscot...) and I find that the
flat streches between the rapids would be torturous in a playboat. Even a
Canyon trip is very doable in a tripper, if rigged right. Remember, the
earliest 'playboats' were BlueHole OCAs and 17As, which are flat bottomed,
low rocker barges by today's standards. That being said, I ran my BH17A down
the Kennebec gorge, and it handled fine. It wasn't loaded, but I think I
could have managed Magic Falls even with gear in those days.

--riverman