"Clams Canino" wrote in message news:RzGOb.83926$nt4.128065@attbi_s51...
I could make the argument that Hitler defeated himself.

1. The "miracle at Dunkirk" Hitler let the English all get away to fight
another day - on purpose.

Debatable. Indeed, highly debateable.

2. Attacking Russia when he did. Also failing to consult with or get
support from his Ally Japan in going after Russia. Russia wasn't a player
till he made them a player. Russia could have waited, it was *imperative*
however that he either take England or force it into a treaty.

Hitler was certainly one of the factors and possibly even a major factor
in the defeat of Germany. The major error in Russia appears to have been
the diversion of the attack northward towards the Ukraine. Another one
was demanding that the divisions around Stalingrad not retreat.

3. Declaring war on U.S. after we declared war on Japan. Hitler had enough
problems without ****ing us off. And Japan didn't declare war on Russia to
follow Hitler, no need to be reciprocal there. That little move is what led
us to a "Europe 1st" decision.

Wasn't really that much choice. We were already aiding both England and Russia.
I don't remember the exact timing but I'd be very surprised if we hadn't
gone to war with Germany when we did with Japan anyway.

4. The battle of Britian. He could have won it - had he not concentated on
London. He had a RAF almost to it's knees and didn't follow through. Having
Britain as a staging area was a big factor in the Allied victory.

Well, the RAF members I served with, including some that were there, didn't
think he had brought them to their knees. The attacks on London were a
mistake but they were partly kicked off by the first deliberate attacks
on civilian targets which were done by the RAF against Monchengladbach,
home of Goering. And of course he didn't necessarily know the state of
the defenses. In any case, there is no real evidence for and much against
that arial bombing can cause anyone to surrender.

And the list goes on. Hitlers psychopathic arrogance cost him WW2, that and
IMHO a subconscious "need to fail" he was quite self destructive.

Pop psychology has never particularly impressed me. That said, he certainly
made mistakes.

"Ashland Henderson" wrote in message
om...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
nk.net...
Actually the Russian winter defeated the Nazi's. The German's extended
the
supply lines to far and due to very precision manufacturing, the big
guns
failed in the winter. Had a customer years ago, who spent WW2 on the
Russian front, German side. He stated one time when were talking about
Mercedes and fine German engineering, the engineering sucked at times.
The
guns were accurate to inches in long range shooting, but an 88 was to
blow
big holes not as a sniper weapon. When it got -30 degrees, the
dissimilar
metals shrunk at different rates and the guns jammed. The Russian guns
were
bored about 1/8" bigger, and could shoot German ammo, but the German
guns
could not shoot the Soviet stuff. So the Russians blew the hell out of
the
Germans with their own ammo. The Russian retreat at Stalingrad, was
over a
lake that was melting fast. There are old movies of the trucks driving
across the lake ice, with at least a foot of water on top. The Russians
made it, but the Germans were forced to drive lots of miles to go around
the
lake. Lacking supplies, because of the long supply lines.
Bill

I'd suggest looking at the battle of Krusk. It wasn't the winter that
defeated the Germans.

"Clams Canino" wrote in message
news:_jBLb.7173$8H.20759@attbi_s03...

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Ashland Henderson wrote:
Pretty funny, actually. We helped, no question about it but the
real
heavy
lifting was done by our old enemies, the USSR. I'd suggest
reading
some
real histories of WWII.


thunder wrote:
And with 20 million dead, the heavy dying.

You might want to take a second look at the numbers. Undoubtedly the
USSR
played
a huge role in WW2, or as they call it, The Great Patriotic War, but
the
oft
quoted figures of ~20 million casualties (I've seen it put at 23+M)
include a
heck of a lot of civilians that were deliberately starved or worked
to
death by
Papa Joe Stalin.

Regards
Doug King

Exactly. One cannot diminish the contributions of the USSR but those
casualty numbers are inflated. Joe Stalin may even eclipse Hitler as
Europe's biggest mass murderer.

Our critical contribution was typical American cowboyism. While the
English
were bombing at night at to save losses, they also weren't hitting
much.
We
got over there with our B17's and B24's and commenced daylight
precision
raids on Hitlers infrastructure, despite him having the best air
defence
system known to man. Our boys signed up for 25 missions when the
average
survival expectency was 15 missions. If you're in Memphis stop off and
visit
the Belle, she sits peacefully by the water now, forever on her 26th
mission - to make sure we never forget. If Col. Bob Morgan is ever
speaking
near you, go see him - and look in the eyes of a real hero.

-W