January 4, 2004

SIMON WIESENTHAL CENTER CRITICIZES MOVEON.ORG FOR POSTING AD COMPARING BUSH
TO HITLER

The Simon Wiesenthal Center sharply criticized MoveOn.org for accepting and
posting an ad comparing President George Bush to Adolf Hitler.

"Politics and preparing for a presidential election is one thing, but
comparing the Bush Administration's fight against Al Qaeda and Saddam
Hussein with the policies of Adolf Hitler is shameful and beyond the pale
and has no place in the legitimate discourse of American politics," said
Rabbi Marvin Hier, the Center's dean and founder.

"This ad is not about Democrats or Republicans - it is about lies and a
distortion of history," he added.

MoveOn.org was right to pull the ad but they should apologize for not using
better judgment in posting it in the first place," Hier concluded.

The Wiesenthal Center is one of the largest international Jewish human
rights organizations with over 400,000 member families in the United States.
It is an NGO at international agencies including the United Nations, UNESCO,
the OSCE, and the Council of Europe.

For more information, contact the Center's

NOYB

Who placed the ad?

The article says who ran it, but *you* state it was placed by the Democrats.

Bush has a lot more detractors than just the Democrats.

Comparing Bush to Hitler is outrageous.
That would be on par to stating that people who exercise a first amendment
right to criticize the government are all traitors. No
person with a shred of intelligence would do so.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
NOYB

Who placed the ad?

The article says who ran it, but *you* state it was placed by the
Democrats.

Over the past five years, MoveOn.org says, it has grown to 1.4 million
"members" (plus "another 700,000 people outside the country" eager to
manipulate America's government) and raised $6.5 million in political
contributions, the only beneficiaries of which have been Democratic and
other Leftist candidates.



Bush has a lot more detractors than just the Democrats.


Sure. And moveon.org is collecting money from foreigners to run ads meant
to influence our country's political campaigns. That doesn't worry you?


Comparing Bush to Hitler is outrageous.
That would be on par to stating that people who exercise a first amendment
right to criticize the government are all traitors. No
person with a shred of intelligence would do so.

It takes more than criticism of the government. For instance:

--wishing terrorist attacks will hit the fly-over areas of our country

--constantly denigrating the intelligence and capabilities of our troops

--wishing ill health or harm on a sitting president

Those kind of comments would make someone a traitor, IMO.

Sure. And moveon.org is collecting money from foreigners to run ads meant
to influence our country's political campaigns. That doesn't worry you?

I think you'd be quick to defend any foreign
contributions that benefitted Bush or other right wing candidates. "Freedom of
speech, free market, anybody can buy an ad, etc"

If your numbers are accurate, this "Move.on" group is no sort of player at all
on the campaign stage. 2.1 million contributors have ponied up a total of less
than $7 million over the last five years? That would include the 2000
elections.
That's less than $1 a year per member.
Sure, some give nothing and some might give a couple of hundred thousand....

A couple hundred thousand = enough money to air *one* TV commercial during a
prime time slot.

How much money do foreign coporations, (and corporations who have moved much of
their operations offshore to avoid American taxation, environmental, and labor
relations
rules) give to the radical right?

I guess I'm bothered more by stunts like Republicans funding Ralph Nader's
campaign in 2000- just to open up another avenue of attack on a political
opponent.
(Ref: Anti-Gore ads featuring Ralph Nader blasting Gore's environmental record
were admittedly paid for by the Republican Leadership Conference)

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Sure. And moveon.org is collecting money from foreigners to run ads
meant
to influence our country's political campaigns. That doesn't worry you?

I think you'd be quick to defend any foreign
contributions that benefitted Bush or other right wing candidates.
"Freedom of
speech, free market, anybody can buy an ad, etc"

If your numbers are accurate, this "Move.on" group is no sort of player at
all
on the campaign stage. 2.1 million contributors have ponied up a total of
less
than $7 million over the last five years? That would include the 2000
elections.
That's less than $1 a year per member.
Sure, some give nothing and some might give a couple of hundred
thousand....

My statistics were from August 2003. In November, George Soros contributed
$5 million to 'em.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Sure. And moveon.org is collecting money from foreigners to run ads
meant
to influence our country's political campaigns. That doesn't worry you?

I think you'd be quick to defend any foreign
contributions that benefitted Bush or other right wing candidates.
"Freedom of
speech, free market, anybody can buy an ad, etc"

If your numbers are accurate, this "Move.on" group is no sort of player at
all
on the campaign stage. 2.1 million contributors have ponied up a total of
less
than $7 million over the last five years? That would include the 2000
elections.
That's less than $1 a year per member.
Sure, some give nothing and some might give a couple of hundred
thousand....

A couple hundred thousand = enough money to air *one* TV commercial during
a
prime time slot.

How much money do foreign coporations, (and corporations who have moved
much of
their operations offshore to avoid American taxation, environmental, and
labor
relations
rules) give to the radical right?

I guess I'm bothered more by stunts like Republicans funding Ralph
Nader's
campaign in 2000- just to open up another avenue of attack on a political
opponent.
(Ref: Anti-Gore ads featuring Ralph Nader blasting Gore's environmental
record
were admittedly paid for by the Republican Leadership Conference)

I'm more troubled by foreign governments (like the Chinese) funnelling money
into our political system in order to influence government policy regarding
those countries.

NOYB wrote:

It takes more than criticism of the government. For instance:

--wishing terrorist attacks will hit the fly-over areas of our country

--constantly denigrating the intelligence and capabilities of our troops

--wishing ill health or harm on a sitting president

Those kind of comments would make someone a traitor, IMO.

So, in your world, wishes, and repeated negative comments are acts of
treason? This pretty much puts you in the same league as Stalin, Hitler,
and all their lackeys.

Keep telling us how you really feel, NOYB, it is a wonderfully clear
insight to what the rightwing hopes to bring to America.

Rick

"Rick" wrote in message
hlink.net...
NOYB wrote:

It takes more than criticism of the government. For instance:

--wishing terrorist attacks will hit the fly-over areas of our country

--constantly denigrating the intelligence and capabilities of our troops

--wishing ill health or harm on a sitting president

Those kind of comments would make someone a traitor, IMO.

So, in your world, wishes, and repeated negative comments are acts of
treason?

OK, Rick. Will you agree that they're acts of sedition then?

16 May, 1918
The U.S. Sedition Act

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
United States, Statutes at Large, Washington, D.C., 1918, Vol. XL, pp 553
ff.
A portion of the amendment to Section 3 of the Espionage Act of June 15,
1917.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

SECTION 3. Whoever, when the United States is at war, shall willfully make
or convey false reports or false statements with intent to interfere with
the operation or success of the military or naval forces of the United
States, or to promote the success of its enemies, or shall willfully make or
convey false reports, or false statements, . . . or incite insubordination,
disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty, in the military or naval forces of
the United States, or shall willfully obstruct . . . the recruiting or
enlistment service of the United States, or . . . shall willfully utter,
print, write, or publish any disloyal, profane, scurrilous, or abusive
language about the form of government of the United States, or the
Constitution of the United States, or the military or naval forces of the
United States . . . or shall willfully display the flag of any foreign
enemy, or shall willfully . . . urge, incite, or advocate any curtailment of
production . . . or advocate, teach, defend, or suggest the doing of any of
the acts or things in this section enumerated and whoever shall by word or
act support or favor the cause of any country with which the United States
is at war or by word or act oppose the cause of the United States therein,
shall be punished by a fine of not more than $10,000 or imprisonment for not
more than twenty years, or both....

NOYB wrote:


OK, Rick. Will you agree that they're acts of sedition then?

16 May, 1918
The U.S. Sedition Act

Is this act still in force? Seems to me it was repealed amid a big political
stink including a McCarthy-esque Red scare.



SECTION 3. Whoever, when the United States is at war, shall willfully make
or convey false reports or false statements with intent to interfere with
the operation or success of the military or naval forces of the United
States,

Vice President Cheney is clearly guilty of this part

. . . or incite insubordination,
disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty, in the military or naval forces of
the United States,

former Senator Jesse Helms is 'way guilty here.

Looks like another case of "the rules only apply to the other side" wishful
thinking.... are you capable of any other kind, NOBBY?

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:


OK, Rick. Will you agree that they're acts of sedition then?

16 May, 1918
The U.S. Sedition Act

Is this act still in force? Seems to me it was repealed amid a big
political
stink including a McCarthy-esque Red scare.



SECTION 3. Whoever, when the United States is at war, shall willfully
make
or convey false reports or false statements with intent to interfere
with
the operation or success of the military or naval forces of the United
States,

Vice President Cheney is clearly guilty of this part

. . . or incite insubordination,
disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty, in the military or naval forces
of
the United States,

former Senator Jesse Helms is 'way guilty here.

Looks like another case of "the rules only apply to the other side"
wishful
thinking.... are you capable of any other kind, NOBBY?


Let's get back on topic here, Doug...

Do you think it's acceptable for foreign entities to skirt our election laws
via a loophole which allows soliciting campaign advertising contributions
over the internet? It's a scary thought if Americans are limited as to how
much they can donate towards a candidate's campaign...but non-American
people, companies, and governments can spend an unlimited amount that will
go towards advertising for a specific candidate.