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OT--Absolutely sick. And it happens in the Netherlands.
Netherlands Hospital Euthanizes Babies By TOBY STERLING, Associated Press Writer AMSTERDAM, Netherlands - Raising the stakes in an excruciating ethical debate, a hospital in the Netherlands - the first nation to permit euthanasia - recently proposed guidelines for mercy killings of terminally ill newborns, and then made a startling revelation: It has already begun carrying out such procedures in a handful of cases and reporting them to the government. The announcement last month by the Groningen Academic Hospital came amid a growing discussion in Holland on whether to legalize euthanasia on people incapable of deciding for themselves whether they want to end their lives - a prospect viewed with horror by euthanasia opponents and as a natural evolution by advocates. In August, the main Dutch doctors' association KNMG urged the Health Ministry to create an independent board to review euthanasia cases for terminally ill people "with no free will," including children, the severely mentally retarded, and people left in an irreversible coma after an accident. The Health Ministry is preparing its response to the request, a spokesman said, and it may come as soon as December. Three years ago, the Dutch parliament made it legal for doctors to inject a sedative and a lethal dose of muscle relaxant at the request of adult patients suffering great pain with no hope of relief. The Groningen Protocol, as the hospital's guidelines have come to be known, would create a legal framework for permitting doctors to actively end the life of newborns deemed to be in similar pain from incurable disease or extreme deformities. The guideline says euthanasia is acceptable when the child's medical team and independent doctors agree the pain cannot be eased and there is no prospect for improvement, and when parents think it's best. Examples include extremely premature births, where children suffer brain damage from bleeding and convulsions; and diseases where a child could only survive on life support for the rest of its life such as spina bifida and epidermosis bullosa, a blistering illness. The hospital said it carried out four such mercy killings in 2003, and reported all cases to government prosecutors - but there have been no legal proceedings taken against them. Catholic organizations and the Vatican have reacted with outrage to Groningen's announcement, and U.S. euthanasia opponents contend that the proposal shows the Dutch have lost their moral compass. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lost their moral compass indeed! Meanwhile, Democrats are working fervently to turn the US into the Netherlands. They'll never get it...and that's why their party will continue to fade away into oblivion. It's better that the American people are the ones to remove the Democratic party's stain of immorality from our country's moral fiber rather than waiting until things get so bad that God decides to do it for us. He has a history of being less that descriminate in his methods, and I'd hate for the decent people to pay for the sins of the immoral minority. |
NOYB wrote:
Netherlands Hospital Euthanizes Babies By TOBY STERLING, Associated Press Writer AMSTERDAM, Netherlands - Raising the stakes in an excruciating ethical debate, a hospital in the Netherlands - the first nation to permit euthanasia - recently proposed guidelines for mercy killings of terminally ill newborns, and then made a startling revelation: It has already begun carrying out such procedures in a handful of cases and reporting them to the government. The announcement last month by the Groningen Academic Hospital came amid a growing discussion in Holland on whether to legalize euthanasia on people incapable of deciding for themselves whether they want to end their lives - a prospect viewed with horror by euthanasia opponents and as a natural evolution by advocates. Lost their moral compass indeed! Meanwhile, Democrats are working fervently to turn the US into the Netherlands. They'll never get it...and that's why their party will continue to fade away into oblivion. It's better that the American people are the ones to remove the Democratic party's stain of immorality from our country's moral fiber rather than waiting until things get so bad that God decides to do it for us. He has a history of being less that descriminate in his methods, and I'd hate for the decent people to pay for the sins of the immoral minority. The USA doeswn't have a moral compass...or in fact any morality on any significant issue. And while we all here understand your attempt to provoke, you're not going to get anywhere. This country is going straight down the tubes, and you are young enough so that you will suffer all along the way. The government will assert control over your profession, and your children will live in a nation of limited opportunities, and probably will end up with menial, third-world jobs at some point in their lifetimes, no matter what their educations. The USA has become passe in the court of world opinion and, in reality, in the ability to project power over anything of importance. It has nothing to do with Democrats, or with what you think is morality or immorality. It has everything to do with fascism. Look up the post Nuremberg laws of the Third Reich...see if you find anything familiar. We're going to find ourselves in a never-ending series of real jams in the not too distant future. Some will be internal, some external, and some of both will result from the actions of our enemies and some from the actions of our friends abroad and our former friends. They are not going to sit around and wait for the smoke to clear. Jesus is not going to save this country. If he exists at all as the Big Kahuna, he washed his hands of us when we lost our vision, our leadership and our courage in January 2001. |
NOYB wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message It has nothing to do with Democrats, or with what you think is morality or immorality. It has everything to do with fascism. Look up the post Nuremberg laws of the Third Reich...see if you find anything familiar. "post-Nuremberg laws" of the Third Reich? Don't you mean the Nuremberg Laws? And how do you believe they are familiar with anything happening today? No, I mean the laws the reich passed after the initial biggies. The ones that parallel the unPatriot Act. |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message news:1101844870.QH79jpUfk8ZhJ2mOOR+a5w@teranews... NOYB wrote: Netherlands Hospital Euthanizes Babies By TOBY STERLING, Associated Press Writer AMSTERDAM, Netherlands - Raising the stakes in an excruciating ethical debate, a hospital in the Netherlands - the first nation to permit euthanasia - recently proposed guidelines for mercy killings of terminally ill newborns, and then made a startling revelation: It has already begun carrying out such procedures in a handful of cases and reporting them to the government. The announcement last month by the Groningen Academic Hospital came amid a growing discussion in Holland on whether to legalize euthanasia on people incapable of deciding for themselves whether they want to end their lives - a prospect viewed with horror by euthanasia opponents and as a natural evolution by advocates. Lost their moral compass indeed! Meanwhile, Democrats are working fervently to turn the US into the Netherlands. They'll never get it...and that's why their party will continue to fade away into oblivion. It's better that the American people are the ones to remove the Democratic party's stain of immorality from our country's moral fiber rather than waiting until things get so bad that God decides to do it for us. He has a history of being less that descriminate in his methods, and I'd hate for the decent people to pay for the sins of the immoral minority. The USA doeswn't have a moral compass...or in fact any morality on any significant issue. And while we all here understand your attempt to provoke, you're not going to get anywhere. This country is going straight down the tubes, and you are young enough so that you will suffer all along the way. Suffer? Why would I suffer? Things are absolutely superb! The government will assert control over your profession, Not as long as we keep the Democratic party in the minority. and your children will live in a nation of limited opportunities, and probably will end up with menial, third-world jobs at some point in their lifetimes Yes. Perhaps during high school. Or summers during college. no matter what their educations. There will always be well-paying jobs in this country for people willing to work hard and stay abreast of the latest innovations. Right now, if you know a trade, you're practically bullet-proof. Perhaps they'll be journeyman? Non-union of course. The USA has become passe in the court of world opinion and, in reality, in the ability to project power over anything of importance. The only thing passe is the Democratic Party. It has nothing to do with Democrats, or with what you think is morality or immorality. It has everything to do with fascism. Look up the post Nuremberg laws of the Third Reich...see if you find anything familiar. "post-Nuremberg laws" of the Third Reich? Don't you mean the Nuremberg Laws? And how do you believe they are familiar with anything happening today? |
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:58:25 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote: NOYB wrote: Netherlands Hospital Euthanizes Babies By TOBY STERLING, Associated Press Writer AMSTERDAM, Netherlands - Raising the stakes in an excruciating ethical debate, a hospital in the Netherlands - the first nation to permit euthanasia - recently proposed guidelines for mercy killings of terminally ill newborns, and then made a startling revelation: It has already begun carrying out such procedures in a handful of cases and reporting them to the government. The announcement last month by the Groningen Academic Hospital came amid a growing discussion in Holland on whether to legalize euthanasia on people incapable of deciding for themselves whether they want to end their lives - a prospect viewed with horror by euthanasia opponents and as a natural evolution by advocates. Lost their moral compass indeed! Meanwhile, Democrats are working fervently to turn the US into the Netherlands. They'll never get it...and that's why their party will continue to fade away into oblivion. It's better that the American people are the ones to remove the Democratic party's stain of immorality from our country's moral fiber rather than waiting until things get so bad that God decides to do it for us. He has a history of being less that descriminate in his methods, and I'd hate for the decent people to pay for the sins of the immoral minority. The USA doeswn't have a moral compass...or in fact any morality on any significant issue. And while we all here understand your attempt to provoke, you're not going to get anywhere. This country is going straight down the tubes, and you are young enough so that you will suffer all along the way. The government will assert control over your profession, and your children will live in a nation of limited opportunities, and probably will end up with menial, third-world jobs at some point in their lifetimes, no matter what their educations. The USA has become passe in the court of world opinion and, in reality, in the ability to project power over anything of importance. It has nothing to do with Democrats, or with what you think is morality or immorality. It has everything to do with fascism. Look up the post Nuremberg laws of the Third Reich...see if you find anything familiar. We're going to find ourselves in a never-ending series of real jams in the not too distant future. Some will be internal, some external, and some of both will result from the actions of our enemies and some from the actions of our friends abroad and our former friends. They are not going to sit around and wait for the smoke to clear. Jesus is not going to save this country. If he exists at all as the Big Kahuna, he washed his hands of us when we lost our vision, our leadership and our courage in January 2001. That shoe must have fit, huh Harry? If this country is so bad, why don't you do a few years in the Netherlands, or anywhere else for that matter? John H On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
JohnH wrote:
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:58:25 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: NOYB wrote: Netherlands Hospital Euthanizes Babies By TOBY STERLING, Associated Press Writer AMSTERDAM, Netherlands - Raising the stakes in an excruciating ethical debate, a hospital in the Netherlands - the first nation to permit euthanasia - recently proposed guidelines for mercy killings of terminally ill newborns, and then made a startling revelation: It has already begun carrying out such procedures in a handful of cases and reporting them to the government. The announcement last month by the Groningen Academic Hospital came amid a growing discussion in Holland on whether to legalize euthanasia on people incapable of deciding for themselves whether they want to end their lives - a prospect viewed with horror by euthanasia opponents and as a natural evolution by advocates. Lost their moral compass indeed! Meanwhile, Democrats are working fervently to turn the US into the Netherlands. They'll never get it...and that's why their party will continue to fade away into oblivion. It's better that the American people are the ones to remove the Democratic party's stain of immorality from our country's moral fiber rather than waiting until things get so bad that God decides to do it for us. He has a history of being less that descriminate in his methods, and I'd hate for the decent people to pay for the sins of the immoral minority. The USA doeswn't have a moral compass...or in fact any morality on any significant issue. And while we all here understand your attempt to provoke, you're not going to get anywhere. This country is going straight down the tubes, and you are young enough so that you will suffer all along the way. The government will assert control over your profession, and your children will live in a nation of limited opportunities, and probably will end up with menial, third-world jobs at some point in their lifetimes, no matter what their educations. The USA has become passe in the court of world opinion and, in reality, in the ability to project power over anything of importance. It has nothing to do with Democrats, or with what you think is morality or immorality. It has everything to do with fascism. Look up the post Nuremberg laws of the Third Reich...see if you find anything familiar. We're going to find ourselves in a never-ending series of real jams in the not too distant future. Some will be internal, some external, and some of both will result from the actions of our enemies and some from the actions of our friends abroad and our former friends. They are not going to sit around and wait for the smoke to clear. Jesus is not going to save this country. If he exists at all as the Big Kahuna, he washed his hands of us when we lost our vision, our leadership and our courage in January 2001. That shoe must have fit, huh Harry? If this country is so bad, why don't you do a few years in the Netherlands, or anywhere else for that matter? John H On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! At the moment, it looks like it will be more fun watching this country implode. We're doing our part now. We've closed accounts at stores in the red states, and to the best of our ability, will avoid purchases from or travels to those areas. For our holiday shopping so far, we've managed to divert about $2000 to businesses in other states. |
"NOYB" wrote in message nk.net... Netherlands Hospital Euthanizes Babies delurk/ This has been happening everywhere, forever. The only new part of this story is a hospital actually admitting to it. But the practice of letting a little one, who is in horrible pain and will never ever make it past a week, quietly slip away with perhaps a bit of help, shouldn't be shocking to anyone. It happens in the USA too, guys. It is a poorly kept secret among midwives and nurses. And it has nothing to do with democrats or republicans or American politics at all -- what is it doing on this newgroup? :-) Stella (yes- I do own a boat, but I come here for the entertaining OT posts) /relurk) |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message news:1101851207.rbmlXyjz3V0DWg/Q8PoFWA@teranews... At the moment, it looks like it will be more fun watching this country implode. Why would you find it fun to watch your country implode? |
NOYB wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message news:1101851207.rbmlXyjz3V0DWg/Q8PoFWA@teranews... At the moment, it looks like it will be more fun watching this country implode. Why would you find it fun to watch your country implode? If I told you, you still wouldn't understand. |
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 16:44:02 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote: JohnH wrote: On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:58:25 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: NOYB wrote: Netherlands Hospital Euthanizes Babies By TOBY STERLING, Associated Press Writer AMSTERDAM, Netherlands - Raising the stakes in an excruciating ethical debate, a hospital in the Netherlands - the first nation to permit euthanasia - recently proposed guidelines for mercy killings of terminally ill newborns, and then made a startling revelation: It has already begun carrying out such procedures in a handful of cases and reporting them to the government. The announcement last month by the Groningen Academic Hospital came amid a growing discussion in Holland on whether to legalize euthanasia on people incapable of deciding for themselves whether they want to end their lives - a prospect viewed with horror by euthanasia opponents and as a natural evolution by advocates. Lost their moral compass indeed! Meanwhile, Democrats are working fervently to turn the US into the Netherlands. They'll never get it...and that's why their party will continue to fade away into oblivion. It's better that the American people are the ones to remove the Democratic party's stain of immorality from our country's moral fiber rather than waiting until things get so bad that God decides to do it for us. He has a history of being less that descriminate in his methods, and I'd hate for the decent people to pay for the sins of the immoral minority. The USA doeswn't have a moral compass...or in fact any morality on any significant issue. And while we all here understand your attempt to provoke, you're not going to get anywhere. This country is going straight down the tubes, and you are young enough so that you will suffer all along the way. The government will assert control over your profession, and your children will live in a nation of limited opportunities, and probably will end up with menial, third-world jobs at some point in their lifetimes, no matter what their educations. The USA has become passe in the court of world opinion and, in reality, in the ability to project power over anything of importance. It has nothing to do with Democrats, or with what you think is morality or immorality. It has everything to do with fascism. Look up the post Nuremberg laws of the Third Reich...see if you find anything familiar. We're going to find ourselves in a never-ending series of real jams in the not too distant future. Some will be internal, some external, and some of both will result from the actions of our enemies and some from the actions of our friends abroad and our former friends. They are not going to sit around and wait for the smoke to clear. Jesus is not going to save this country. If he exists at all as the Big Kahuna, he washed his hands of us when we lost our vision, our leadership and our courage in January 2001. That shoe must have fit, huh Harry? If this country is so bad, why don't you do a few years in the Netherlands, or anywhere else for that matter? John H On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! At the moment, it looks like it will be more fun watching this country implode. We're doing our part now. We've closed accounts at stores in the red states, and to the best of our ability, will avoid purchases from or travels to those areas. For our holiday shopping so far, we've managed to divert about $2000 to businesses in other states. Such common sense! Does that come from playing with yourself or from doing the "Weasel Shuffle"? John H On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
"Black Dog" wrote in message . .. This has been happening everywhere, forever. The only new part of this story is a hospital actually admitting to it. But the practice of letting a little one, who is in horrible pain and will never ever make it past a week, quietly slip away with perhaps a bit of help, shouldn't be shocking to anyone. It happens in the USA too, guys. It is a poorly kept secret among midwives and nurses. And it has nothing to do with democrats or republicans or American politics at all -- what is it doing on this newgroup? :-) Stella (yes- I do own a boat, but I come here for the entertaining OT posts) /relurk) We had a big case here a few years ago. After a lot of media coverage it gradually 'died off'. http://www.cpsns.ns.ca/morrison_3_30_99.html |
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 17:39:22 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote: NOYB wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message news:1101851207.rbmlXyjz3V0DWg/Q8PoFWA@teranews... At the moment, it looks like it will be more fun watching this country implode. Why would you find it fun to watch your country implode? If I told you, you still wouldn't understand. Go play with yourself, Harry. You'll get a lot more accomplished. John H On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
Beware the slippery slope.
How large a step is it from terminating the life of people who are "unable to make the decision to end their own life", to terminating people "who are not capable of making the *right* decision, and want to go on living"? |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message news:1101854527.FTBudGrUqep93va5KODm2Q@teranews... NOYB wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message news:1101851207.rbmlXyjz3V0DWg/Q8PoFWA@teranews... At the moment, it looks like it will be more fun watching this country implode. Why would you find it fun to watch your country implode? If I told you, you still wouldn't understand. There's nothing to understand. It's unfathomable how somebody who calls himself an American could find enjoyment in watching his country "implode". You, Harry, have become a terrorist sympathizer...and a traitor to your country. |
"Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Beware the slippery slope. How large a step is it from terminating the life of people who are "unable to make the decision to end their own life", to terminating people "who are not capable of making the *right* decision, and want to go on living"? Wow! Chuck and I agree. |
"Don White" wrote in message ... "Black Dog" wrote in message . .. This has been happening everywhere, forever. The only new part of this story is a hospital actually admitting to it. But the practice of letting a little one, who is in horrible pain and will never ever make it past a week, quietly slip away with perhaps a bit of help, shouldn't be shocking to anyone. It happens in the USA too, guys. It is a poorly kept secret among midwives and nurses. And it has nothing to do with democrats or republicans or American politics at all -- what is it doing on this newgroup? :-) Stella (yes- I do own a boat, but I come here for the entertaining OT posts) /relurk) We had a big case here a few years ago. After a lot of media coverage it gradually 'died off'. http://www.cpsns.ns.ca/morrison_3_30_99.html We have our own case right here in Florida: http://www.terrisfight.org/ |
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"NOYB" wrote in message ... "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Beware the slippery slope. How large a step is it from terminating the life of people who are "unable to make the decision to end their own life", to terminating people "who are not capable of making the *right* decision, and want to go on living"? Wow! Chuck and I agree. Was done lots years ago. Baby born without a brain, the doctors put the baby to the side and let them die. Some nurse complained, and now $10,000,000 and the baby dies in a month. Same with other unsurvivable babies. |
Was done lots years ago. Baby born without a brain, the doctors put the
baby to the side and let them die. Some nurse complained, and now $10,000,000 and the baby dies in a month. Same with other unsurvivable babies. My brainy daughter's first master's degree was in medical ethics. Fascinating field that often deals with scenarios much like you describe. More major hospitals are adding medical ethicists to saff. There's a difference between a baby born without a brain that has *zero* potential for survival, and deciding to off poor sick granny because the creditors are hounding and the inheritance would solve a lot of problems. |
Gould 0738 wrote:
Was done lots years ago. Baby born without a brain, the doctors put the baby to the side and let them die. Some nurse complained, and now $10,000,000 and the baby dies in a month. Same with other unsurvivable babies. My brainy daughter's first master's degree was in medical ethics. Fascinating field that often deals with scenarios much like you describe. More major hospitals are adding medical ethicists to saff. There's a difference between a baby born without a brain that has *zero* potential for survival, and deciding to off poor sick granny because the creditors are hounding and the inheritance would solve a lot of problems. I heard an interview this morning with the head pediatric doctor at the facility that euthanized the babies. They've done four so far, and if I heard correctly, they were all born with painful, untreatable, fatal spinal injuries, so, in consultation with the parents, the doctors helped the babies on to their Creator. We have a really pooched sense of "morality" in this country...most of the loonies running around trying to prevent abortions are the same people who don't give a tinker's dam about the millions of underprivileged kids trying to achieve a decent life in this country. |
"Calif Bill" wrote in message ink.net... "NOYB" wrote in message ... "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Beware the slippery slope. How large a step is it from terminating the life of people who are "unable to make the decision to end their own life", to terminating people "who are not capable of making the *right* decision, and want to go on living"? Wow! Chuck and I agree. Was done lots years ago. Baby born without a brain, the doctors put the baby to the side and let them die. Better check your story there Bill. Babies born without a brain aren't alive. |
NOYB wrote:
"Calif Bill" wrote in message ink.net... "NOYB" wrote in message ... "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Beware the slippery slope. How large a step is it from terminating the life of people who are "unable to make the decision to end their own life", to terminating people "who are not capable of making the *right* decision, and want to go on living"? Wow! Chuck and I agree. Was done lots years ago. Baby born without a brain, the doctors put the baby to the side and let them die. Better check your story there Bill. Babies born without a brain aren't alive. It's part of Bill's autobiography. "It was a dark and stormy night, and I was born without a brain," writes Bill. |
"Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Was done lots years ago. Baby born without a brain, the doctors put the baby to the side and let them die. Some nurse complained, and now $10,000,000 and the baby dies in a month. Same with other unsurvivable babies. My brainy daughter's first master's degree was in medical ethics. Fascinating field that often deals with scenarios much like you describe. More major hospitals are adding medical ethicists to saff. There's a difference between a baby born without a brain that has *zero* potential for survival, and deciding to off poor sick granny because the creditors are hounding and the inheritance would solve a lot of problems. True, but the ethics now are save that vegetable baby no matter what. Other wise go to jail. But it is OK to kill it while it is still half in the mother. |
"NOYB" wrote in message .net... "Calif Bill" wrote in message ink.net... "NOYB" wrote in message ... "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Beware the slippery slope. How large a step is it from terminating the life of people who are "unable to make the decision to end their own life", to terminating people "who are not capable of making the *right* decision, and want to go on living"? Wow! Chuck and I agree. Was done lots years ago. Baby born without a brain, the doctors put the baby to the side and let them die. Better check your story there Bill. Babies born without a brain aren't alive. They are born with very little of the brain, and it is open to the world. Check your story. Probably why you are a dentist. |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Calif Bill" wrote in message ink.net... "NOYB" wrote in message ... "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Beware the slippery slope. How large a step is it from terminating the life of people who are "unable to make the decision to end their own life", to terminating people "who are not capable of making the *right* decision, and want to go on living"? Wow! Chuck and I agree. Was done lots years ago. Baby born without a brain, the doctors put the baby to the side and let them die. Better check your story there Bill. Babies born without a brain aren't alive. It's part of Bill's autobiography. "It was a dark and stormy night, and I was born without a brain," writes Bill. You snipped out the other part. "As Harry stated to his shrink It was a dark and stormy night, and I was born without a brain, and I now only live vicariously through the internet." |
"Calif Bill" wrote in message ink.net... "NOYB" wrote in message .net... "Calif Bill" wrote in message ink.net... "NOYB" wrote in message ... "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Beware the slippery slope. How large a step is it from terminating the life of people who are "unable to make the decision to end their own life", to terminating people "who are not capable of making the *right* decision, and want to go on living"? Wow! Chuck and I agree. Was done lots years ago. Baby born without a brain, the doctors put the baby to the side and let them die. Better check your story there Bill. Babies born without a brain aren't alive. They are born with very little of the brain, and it is open to the world. Now it's "born with very little brain"? Before it was "born *without* a brain". The term for the condition you are now referring to is anencephaly. Yes, an anencephalic baby can be alive for a short while. No, a baby "born without a brain" cannot live. As for my being a dentist... We had two semesters studying cranial-facial development. I can tell you all you need to know about neural tube defects and cranial-facial abnormalities. Riley's Childrens' Hospital in Indianapolis (which is adjacent to the dental school), has one of the premier cranio-facial reconstructive teams in the World. One of the members of the team, Dr. RR Hathaway, was my instructor for those two semesters. He's been published plenty of times in the Journal of Craniofacial Surgery. |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Calif Bill" wrote in message ink.net... "NOYB" wrote in message ink.net... "Calif Bill" wrote in message rthlink.net... "NOYB" wrote in message ... "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Beware the slippery slope. How large a step is it from terminating the life of people who are "unable to make the decision to end their own life", to terminating people "who are not capable of making the *right* decision, and want to go on living"? Wow! Chuck and I agree. Was done lots years ago. Baby born without a brain, the doctors put the baby to the side and let them die. Better check your story there Bill. Babies born without a brain aren't alive. They are born with very little of the brain, and it is open to the world. Now it's "born with very little brain"? Before it was "born *without* a brain". The term for the condition you are now referring to is anencephaly. Yes, an anencephalic baby can be alive for a short while. No, a baby "born without a brain" cannot live. As for my being a dentist... We had two semesters studying cranial-facial development. I can tell you all you need to know about neural tube defects and cranial-facial abnormalities. Riley's Childrens' Hospital in Indianapolis (which is adjacent to the dental school), has one of the premier cranio-facial reconstructive teams in the World. One of the members of the team, Dr. RR Hathaway, was my instructor for those two semesters. He's been published plenty of times in the Journal of Craniofacial Surgery. Okay...you're the expert in how faces should look. So...explain your looks... Speaking of explaining looks... I had a lady come in today after 5 months of wearing a denture that I made her. She complained that people have recently noticed that the teeth aren't straight (even though for 5 months she had been perfectly happy with them). She has a drooping right upper lip, so when she's not smiling, more of the teeth are showing on the left than on the right. When she smiles, her lip is straight, and consequently the teeth look straight. She told me that all of her family members were commenting over Thanksgiving that her new denture wasn't straight. That, of course, told me that she must not smile a lot when her family is around. But how do you explain that to a patient? |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Calif Bill" wrote in message rthlink.net... "NOYB" wrote in message hlink.net... "Calif Bill" wrote in message . earthlink.net... "NOYB" wrote in message ... "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Beware the slippery slope. How large a step is it from terminating the life of people who are "unable to make the decision to end their own life", to terminating people "who are not capable of making the *right* decision, and want to go on living"? Wow! Chuck and I agree. Was done lots years ago. Baby born without a brain, the doctors put the baby to the side and let them die. Better check your story there Bill. Babies born without a brain aren't alive. They are born with very little of the brain, and it is open to the world. Now it's "born with very little brain"? Before it was "born *without* a brain". The term for the condition you are now referring to is anencephaly. Yes, an anencephalic baby can be alive for a short while. No, a baby "born without a brain" cannot live. As for my being a dentist... We had two semesters studying cranial-facial development. I can tell you all you need to know about neural tube defects and cranial-facial abnormalities. Riley's Childrens' Hospital in Indianapolis (which is adjacent to the dental school), has one of the premier cranio-facial reconstructive teams in the World. One of the members of the team, Dr. RR Hathaway, was my instructor for those two semesters. He's been published plenty of times in the Journal of Craniofacial Surgery. Okay...you're the expert in how faces should look. So...explain your looks... Speaking of explaining looks... I had a lady come in today after 5 months of wearing a denture that I made her. She complained that people have recently noticed that the teeth aren't straight (even though for 5 months she had been perfectly happy with them). She has a drooping right upper lip, so when she's not smiling, more of the teeth are showing on the left than on the right. When she smiles, her lip is straight, and consequently the teeth look straight. She told me that all of her family members were commenting over Thanksgiving that her new denture wasn't straight. That, of course, told me that she must not smile a lot when her family is around. But how do you explain that to a patient? With a lot of tact and patience...which you don't have? HAve your wife do it. She has to have lots of both... I just suggested to my patient that she spend more time hanging around people who make her smile. As for my wife... She *used to* have patience, but now she has three boys under the age of 5 running around the house. |
On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 21:14:54 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:
~~ snippage ~~ Speaking of explaining looks... I had a lady come in today after 5 months of wearing a denture that I made her. She complained that people have recently noticed that the teeth aren't straight (even though for 5 months she had been perfectly happy with them). She has a drooping right upper lip, so when she's not smiling, more of the teeth are showing on the left than on the right. When she smiles, her lip is straight, and consequently the teeth look straight. She told me that all of her family members were commenting over Thanksgiving that her new denture wasn't straight. That, of course, told me that she must not smile a lot when her family is around. But how do you explain that to a patient? I've worn full dentures since '68 as the result of an incompetent Army triage doctor and a equally incompetent Navy Surgeon and over the years, have replaced them three times. This current time will be the fourth - about once every ten years. To date, as a result of the incompetence of the original surgery, I have yet to obtain a proper set of dentures. Either the teeth are too small or the teeth are too large or the damn things don't fit right a month after the final fit - they are a total pain in the...er....mouth. Fortunately this time I now have a very understanding dentist who is striving to get it right - we've been working on this new set for two months and we're at the final impression/teeth setting stage. The teeth are a proper size for my face, the damn things seem to fit and with a few final tweaks, finally - a good pair of dentures. Gonna cost me a bundle, but this time it's worth it. I don't envy dentists by the way - that's got to be a tough job in the best of circumstances. Later, Tom |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... With a lot of tact and patience...which you don't have? HAve your wife do it. She has to have lots of both... Hee hee... I'm going to start collecting lines for my Don Rickles immitations.. |
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message I don't envy dentists by the way - that's got to be a tough job in the best of circumstances. My former next door neighbour used to complain all the time that a dentist earned more per patient visit than he did as an MD. Dentists charged what they want (fee schedule) while the MS's up here are paid a fee per patient determined and paid by the gov't. |
"Don White" wrote in snip Dentists charged what they want (fee schedule) while the MS's up here are paid a fee per patient determined and paid by the gov't. ooops...that should be MD...or GP |
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 21:14:54 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: ~~ snippage ~~ Speaking of explaining looks... I had a lady come in today after 5 months of wearing a denture that I made her. She complained that people have recently noticed that the teeth aren't straight (even though for 5 months she had been perfectly happy with them). She has a drooping right upper lip, so when she's not smiling, more of the teeth are showing on the left than on the right. When she smiles, her lip is straight, and consequently the teeth look straight. She told me that all of her family members were commenting over Thanksgiving that her new denture wasn't straight. That, of course, told me that she must not smile a lot when her family is around. But how do you explain that to a patient? I've worn full dentures since '68 as the result of an incompetent Army triage doctor and a equally incompetent Navy Surgeon and over the years, have replaced them three times. This current time will be the fourth - about once every ten years. To date, as a result of the incompetence of the original surgery, I have yet to obtain a proper set of dentures. Either the teeth are too small or the teeth are too large or the damn things don't fit right a month after the final fit - they are a total pain in the...er....mouth. Fortunately this time I now have a very understanding dentist who is striving to get it right - we've been working on this new set for two months and we're at the final impression/teeth setting stage. The teeth are a proper size for my face, the damn things seem to fit and with a few final tweaks, finally - a good pair of dentures. Gonna cost me a bundle, but this time it's worth it. I don't envy dentists by the way - that's got to be a tough job in the best of circumstances. I really like dentistry. I hate making dentures. Even under the best circumstances, statistics show that 1/3 of the people are satisfied from the get-go, 1/3 take awhile to adjust, and 1/3 of denture wearers will never be happy with their dentures no matter how well they're made. I find that less than 5% of *my* denture patients are hard to satisfy (which is about 25 percentage points better than the average). But the people in that 5% make up about 99% of the headaches in my office. I'm almost to the point where I just won't make dentures any more. If a real headache patient (like the lady today) keeps complaining even after I know that I've done everything possible to make her denture text-book perfect, I tell her to go get another set made at another dentist...and then I offer to refund her money when she gives me *my* dentures back. The condition for the refund is this: she has to get the other dentist to send me a letter stating precisely what is wrong with the set I made. I haven't issued a single refund yet. |
"Don White" wrote in message ... "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message I don't envy dentists by the way - that's got to be a tough job in the best of circumstances. My former next door neighbour used to complain all the time that a dentist earned more per patient visit than he did as an MD. That's sadly (for MD's at least) is true. Dentists charged what they want (fee schedule) while the MS's up here are paid a fee per patient determined and paid by the gov't. In the US, the fee is determined by the insurance companies...which is why more and more dentists are refusing to sign on to any insurance plans. Only 40% of my patient base has dental insurance. Patients pay at the time of service, and then we hand the patient a stamped envelope addressed to their insurance company with the necessary froms inside, and ask them to mail it for us. By asking the patient to mail it, they know for sure that it went into the mail, and then they call the insurance company (rather than my office) if they haven't received reimbursement. Physicians have screwed themselves by accepting assignment of benefits, rather than asking for payment at time of service. |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Don White wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message I don't envy dentists by the way - that's got to be a tough job in the best of circumstances. My former next door neighbour used to complain all the time that a dentist earned more per patient visit than he did as an MD. Dentists charged what they want (fee schedule) while the MS's up here are paid a fee per patient determined and paid by the gov't. But all that bad breath... Did you ever smell the breath of someone with GERD or a sinus infection? People always brush their teeth before seeing their dentists...and we wear masks anyhow. The MD's see the sick folks who are too sick to brush their teeth...and the MD's don't wear masks. They also have to stick their hands up smelly butts and into cheesy ****s. And MD's get calls at all hours of the nights and weekends. Their insurance rates are higher. They have a residency after med school. And they have hospital rounds every time one of their patients are admitted. No thanks. |
On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 21:06:18 -0500, "NOYB" wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message .. . ~~ snippage ~~ I don't envy dentists by the way - that's got to be a tough job in the best of circumstances. I really like dentistry. I hate making dentures. Even under the best circumstances, statistics show that 1/3 of the people are satisfied from the get-go, 1/3 take awhile to adjust, and 1/3 of denture wearers will never be happy with their dentures no matter how well they're made. I find that less than 5% of *my* denture patients are hard to satisfy (which is about 25 percentage points better than the average). But the people in that 5% make up about 99% of the headaches in my office. I'm almost to the point where I just won't make dentures any more. If a real headache patient (like the lady today) keeps complaining even after I know that I've done everything possible to make her denture text-book perfect, I tell her to go get another set made at another dentist...and then I offer to refund her money when she gives me *my* dentures back. The condition for the refund is this: she has to get the other dentist to send me a letter stating precisely what is wrong with the set I made. I haven't issued a single refund yet. My oldest daughter and her husband are physicians - they me put in touch with a friend of theirs a former Navy dentist who now has a practice in this area - the guy is really trying hard to get it right. And by George, I think he's got it. Too bad the freakin' Army dork f'd it up to begin with. :) Hey, dentures aren't perfect - I totally understand that. Truthfully, you should have them refit once a year, but it's expensive. This pair is going to run me about 4K by the time it's all over with. Later, Tom |
On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 21:20:12 -0500, "NOYB" wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ~~ snippage ~~ But all that bad breath... Did you ever smell the breath of someone with GERD or a sinus infection? People always brush their teeth before seeing their dentists...and we wear masks anyhow. The MD's see the sick folks who are too sick to brush their teeth...and the MD's don't wear masks. They also have to stick their hands up smelly butts and into cheesy ****s. And MD's get calls at all hours of the nights and weekends. Their insurance rates are higher. They have a residency after med school. And they have hospital rounds every time one of their patients are admitted. No thanks. Oh, I don't know about that. I'm not sure what's worse - transporting a guy who fell into a manure pit to the hospital or the EMT who has just eaten her morning four cloves of garlic - this was four in the morning I might add. P and U just does not describe it. Later, Tom |
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message snip Hey, dentures aren't perfect - I totally understand that. Truthfully, you should have them refit once a year, but it's expensive. This pair is going to run me about 4K by the time it's all over with. Later, That's a lot of loonies for a set of chompers. Might be cheaper just to gum your food before swallowing. |
"NOYB" wrote in message ink.net... "Calif Bill" wrote in message ink.net... "NOYB" wrote in message .net... "Calif Bill" wrote in message ink.net... "NOYB" wrote in message ... "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Beware the slippery slope. How large a step is it from terminating the life of people who are "unable to make the decision to end their own life", to terminating people "who are not capable of making the *right* decision, and want to go on living"? Wow! Chuck and I agree. Was done lots years ago. Baby born without a brain, the doctors put the baby to the side and let them die. Better check your story there Bill. Babies born without a brain aren't alive. They are born with very little of the brain, and it is open to the world. Now it's "born with very little brain"? Before it was "born *without* a brain". The term for the condition you are now referring to is anencephaly. Yes, an anencephalic baby can be alive for a short while. No, a baby "born without a brain" cannot live. As for my being a dentist... We had two semesters studying cranial-facial development. I can tell you all you need to know about neural tube defects and cranial-facial abnormalities. Riley's Childrens' Hospital in Indianapolis (which is adjacent to the dental school), has one of the premier cranio-facial reconstructive teams in the World. One of the members of the team, Dr. RR Hathaway, was my instructor for those two semesters. He's been published plenty of times in the Journal of Craniofacial Surgery. Close enough to brainless. And the baby could probably live for a short time with out a brain. Heart still beats, blood pumps. There are people on life support, who are brain dead. Then they pull the life support and they finish dying. |
Also Sprach NOYB :
I don't get it. What's so sick? Dan |
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