What I find curious, if not suspicious, is "one gun between them," i.e., a
hunting party of several individuals, whether it was the first or second
group. My first reaction was "guy went berserk..." My next reaction was
"What could have made him go berserk?"

Franko

"Don White" wrote in message
...

News report I saw locally said the large group only had one gun between
them. I don't know if this was the first group or the enlarged group
after
reinforcements arrived. If they were all armed...how come no one was
able
to shoot back.
I always said give the deer a gun to shoot back. Obvious where the odds
would lie.

The scopes I've seen mounted on Chinese made SKS can come off in about two
seconds...push in lock release, twist scope off rifle (clockwise when
looking down from above)... Yes, you would have to remove it to use the iron
sights on the rifle because the scope mount does not allow "peep-through."
Iron sights are VERY easily used for short and medium distance because of
the "unlimited" (more unhindered) field of vision. Scopes are good for long
distance but have a very narrow field of vision -- difficult to aim at close
objects.

"RG" wrote in message
news:kT4pd.157542$G15.63881@fed1read03...

Vang said he started walking away and saw the man with the rifle take
it off his shoulder. Vang said he looked back again, when he was about
100 feet from the group, and the armed man was pointing the rifle at
him.

Then, Vang said, he dropped to a a crouch position and the man fired a
shot at him, hitting the ground 30 to 40 feet behind Vang.

Vang said he took off the scope of his SKS semi-automatic rifle and
fired two shots at the armed man, who dropped.


I'm not a hunter, but this last sentence in Vang's statement seems a bit
incredible to me. If, in fact, you were being fired upon at relatively
close range without benefit of cover, and feared for your life, would you
really take the time to remove the scope from your rifle before returning
fire? I don't believe I would, unless there's some reason that the scope
would prevent successfully returning fire that I'm not aware of. To me,
this part of Vang's statement brings serious doubt to his claim of being
fired upon first.

Thousands did.

In a war, you shoot at the enemy until he dies or surrenders, not just
until he
turns his back on you.

Hunters=enemies? shoot them?

Matt

John was using the opportunity to make a post election dig at his least
favorite candidate. Although John has admitted he would have done the same
thing in identical circumstances, he often said that
Kerry shooting a fleeing enemy in the back
(an enemy who momemnts earlier had fired on a US Navy Swift Boat), was absolute
proof that Kerry should not have been elected POTUS. Hey, maybe he was right,
as he wasn't. :-)

However, in a war, (not when hunting), it is my impression that the rules of a
formal duel do not apply. It isn't necessary to wait until a referee indicates
that its time to open fire, and nobody gives a ding if you have your back
turned. Attacking from behind, in some circumstances, is considered good
strategy, not "unsportsmanlike conduct".

If there might have been an excuse for the hunter defending himself by
returning fire, (assuming the other group began actually began firing first),
there isn't an excuse for chasing them down individually after they have fled
the scene and shooting them after the threat had been dispersed.

Several hunters with only one gun is suspect. Other hunters arriving at the
scene supposedly without guns is suspect. Shooting eight, killing six, to
defend yourself is suspect.

I wonder what others would have done in his shoes: assuming what he stated
was true about being surrounded and shot at, alone against a group of at
least eight "hunters."

"Matt Lang" wrote in message
om...
(steve) wrote in message
. com...
Suspect says hunters provoked him
Vang says he was surrounded, called names and shot at before shootings
By JOHN DIEDRICH, LEE BERGQUIST and TOM HELD

Posted: Nov. 23, 2004
Hayward - The suspect arrested for shooting eight hunters, killing six
of them, says he was surrounded by the group, called derogatory racial
names and shot at before he opened fire, according to court records
released today.

Northwoods Shootings

Suspect


Chai Soua Vang, 36, of St. Paul, Minn., is suspected of shooting eight
hunters, killing six of them.


[massive snip]

well a guy with a history of domestic and I even read gun invovled
violence masacres 6 people (only ONE armed), some shot in the back.
More unarmed people on ATV's arrive, they get executed as well. This
isnt self defence.

Even if they pulled the racial stuff on him, no reason to execute them
all.

This guy needs to be locked away for life also to warn people like
him.

Matt

Tom,
Doesn't the motion sensors get tripped by wildlife?
Paul

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 23:06:48 GMT, "Don White"
wrote:


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
I always said give the deer a gun to shoot back. Obvious where the
odds
would lie.

Al Cummmings, who wrote a bunch of cruising guidebooks years ago, once
worked
as a radio DJ in Seattle.

One year, on the opening day of deer season, he put on a hollowed out
trophy
head and stood next to one of our busy arterials with a rifle,
pretending
to
take aim at passing motorists. In the 60's this was funny. Somebody
would
gun
him down or call the Homeland Security forces on him these days.

Wow! Up here the police put out deer & moose silhouettes trying to entice
poachers to take a shot. They get takers each year.

Our DEP has access to three choppers with some very sophisticated IR
and low light hardware. They set up motion sensors in restricted
areas (like my woods) to catch poachers. Once the sensors trigger,
it's relayed by satellite to Hartford and they dispatch a chopper.

Caught thirty last year (two in my woods).

Later,

Tom

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 09:54:21 -0500, "Paul Schilter"
paulschilter@comcast dot net wrote:

Tom,
Doesn't the motion sensors get tripped by wildlife?
Paul

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 23:06:48 GMT, "Don White"
wrote:


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
I always said give the deer a gun to shoot back. Obvious where the
odds
would lie.

Al Cummmings, who wrote a bunch of cruising guidebooks years ago, once
worked
as a radio DJ in Seattle.

One year, on the opening day of deer season, he put on a hollowed out
trophy
head and stood next to one of our busy arterials with a rifle,
pretending
to
take aim at passing motorists. In the 60's this was funny. Somebody
would
gun
him down or call the Homeland Security forces on him these days.

Wow! Up here the police put out deer & moose silhouettes trying to entice
poachers to take a shot. They get takers each year.

Our DEP has access to three choppers with some very sophisticated IR
and low light hardware. They set up motion sensors in restricted
areas (like my woods) to catch poachers. Once the sensors trigger,
it's relayed by satellite to Hartford and they dispatch a chopper.

Caught thirty last year (two in my woods).

Occasionally, but most of the time, at least around here, it's deer
jackers.

Later,

Tom

Eisboch,
I like her, she's got a sense of humor.
Paul

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

Gould 0738 wrote in message
...
I always said give the deer a gun to shoot back. Obvious where the odds
would lie.

Al Cummmings, who wrote a bunch of cruising guidebooks years ago, once
worked
as a radio DJ in Seattle.

One year, on the opening day of deer season, he put on a hollowed out
trophy
head and stood next to one of our busy arterials with a rifle, pretending
to
take aim at passing motorists. In the 60's this was funny. Somebody would
gun
him down or call the Homeland Security forces on him these days.


I think I told this story before, so for those that have heard it, delete,
delete.

It's another Mrs. E. story. By now you should all have a clear mental
image
of this lady's personality.

Anyway, this occurred several years ago, when we were living in our first
house and still had young kids at home. It was November and our next door
neighbor was an avid hunter. One evening I arrived home from work only to
find Mrs. E. in near hysterics. She hussled me down to one of the
bedrooms,
pointed at a window that faced our neighbor's yard and screamed, "Look!"

The neighbor who had obviously returned from a hunting trip had hung a
couple of gutted deer by their hind legs from a tree branch to drain. I
am
not a hunter, and Mrs. E. is an animal lover, so she was screaming at me
that she was going to call the police, have the neighbor arrested, all
kinds
of stuff.

I tried to calm her down and explained that although it was not pleasant,
it
was perfectly legal and he was within his rights. I also explained the
draining process required before the meat was cut up and either frozen or
cooked. It took some doing, but finally she calmed down and accepted it
for
what it was.

A few weeks later Mrs. E. decided it was time to decorate the house and
yard
for Christmas. Again, I came home one day to find that she had purchased
and
set up some of those white, wire deer lawn displays with the lights and
all.
Later that evening, I happened to look out the bedroom window and saw
another wire deer, lights and all, hung by the rear legs on a tree in
direct
view from our neighbor's house.

Eisboch

The unarmed hunters were coming because they got a radio call that someone
had been shot. They were not out hunting when the call came. This
according to the newspaper report.

"Franko" wrote in message
...
Several hunters with only one gun is suspect. Other hunters arriving at
the
scene supposedly without guns is suspect. Shooting eight, killing six, to
defend yourself is suspect.

I wonder what others would have done in his shoes: assuming what he stated
was true about being surrounded and shot at, alone against a group of at
least eight "hunters."

"Matt Lang" wrote in message
om...
(steve) wrote in message
. com...
Suspect says hunters provoked him
Vang says he was surrounded, called names and shot at before shootings
By JOHN DIEDRICH, LEE BERGQUIST and TOM HELD

Posted: Nov. 23, 2004
Hayward - The suspect arrested for shooting eight hunters, killing six
of them, says he was surrounded by the group, called derogatory racial
names and shot at before he opened fire, according to court records
released today.

Northwoods Shootings

Suspect


Chai Soua Vang, 36, of St. Paul, Minn., is suspected of shooting eight
hunters, killing six of them.


[massive snip]

well a guy with a history of domestic and I even read gun invovled
violence masacres 6 people (only ONE armed), some shot in the back.
More unarmed people on ATV's arrive, they get executed as well. This
isnt self defence.

Even if they pulled the racial stuff on him, no reason to execute them
all.

This guy needs to be locked away for life also to warn people like
him.

Matt