Subject: I have a crazy wife
From: Eisboch

"In many cases, single-engine models provide efficient cruising in the
8- to 9- knot range and burn a stingy three gallons per hour (gph).
Top-end speeds rise to 10 to 11 knots, but fuel consumption jumps to 12 gph"

It doesn't really say what engine.

Bigger single than a 120 Lehman. Perhaps a Cummins.

Capt. Bill

Subject: I have a crazy wife
From: (Gould 0738)

Here you go:

http://www.felixmarine.net/article-s...uel-tanks.html



Thanks.

Capt. Bill

Subject: Grand Banks (was I have a crazy wife)
From: Eisboch

BTW, thanks for the link ... I was wondering how you were so
knowledgeable about these boats.


You're welcome.

And feel free you ask any question you may have.
If I don't have the answer one of the people I know (including a former GB
dealer) will have I bet. :-)

Capt. Bill

On Sunday 14 November 2004 12:00 pm in rec.boats Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

Are you referring to the "Salty Dog"? It does have a little resemblance
I guess. Nice looking boat. Why are you opposed to diesels?

Well, to tell the truth I'm a little leery of vibration in a boat this
size. It would seem to me that twin diesels in a boat like this it
would be both noisy and lot's of vibration.

Properly fitted diesel inboards should make a lot less
noise than outboards, and they should NOT vibrate unless
there is something seriously wrong such as bad mounts
or misaligned shafts.


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On Sunday 14 November 2004 1:38 pm in rec.boats Eisboch wrote:

The Egg Harbor I used to have had a resonant RPM while
accelerating that caused all the hatches in the cockpit to vibrate
loudly and the Cat 3126 engines were noisy, but it was not a big issue.

This is major design issue. Resonant vibration is almost
certain to lead to fatigue cracking and structural failure.If you found the
CATs to be noisy you almost certainly have other serious issues with
inadequade mounts and poor insulation.

Sounds like a boat to avoid at any price.

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Chris Newport wrote:
On Sunday 14 November 2004 12:00 pm in rec.boats Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

Are you referring to the "Salty Dog"? It does have a little resemblance
I guess. Nice looking boat. Why are you opposed to diesels?

Well, to tell the truth I'm a little leery of vibration in a boat this
size. It would seem to me that twin diesels in a boat like this it
would be both noisy and lot's of vibration.

Properly fitted diesel inboards should make a lot less
noise than outboards, and they should NOT vibrate unless
there is something seriously wrong such as bad mounts
or misaligned shafts.




There are many, many factors that determine whether one sort of engine
application is going to be noisier than another of similar horsespower.
I would not posit that a 200-250 hp four-cycle outboard is going to be
noisier than an inboard or I/O diesel of the same power on a similar boat.

My outboard boat has a full transom and a bracket. So do many other
outboard boats. You stick a large V-6 four stroke outboard out on that
bracket, and you have an engine that typically vibrates the boat less
than an diesel inboard or I/O and produces lower noise levels in the
cockpit.

I'd not sure I'd ever want to again own an inboard boat that doesn't
have a decent keel to protect the running gear. There's just too many
opportunities to run aground where I boat. And I sure prefer the running
gear of outboards to that of I/O's.

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 08:17:56 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 11:37:08 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

I've been looking at these:

http://www.topazboats.com/Site/32Express/32x.html

but I don't really want diesels.

===============================

Trust me on this one, you absolutely do want diesels. In order to get
decent speed with gas engines on a boat of that type you will be
looking at a fuel burn of over 40 gph. Diesels, about half that.

Well, I don't have to commit as of yet. And I'm sure that once I
actually get into this market when "we" sell the Contender in a year
or so I'll be wanting a test ride, blah, blah, blah. Then again, I
can be price driven as proved with the Contender. The only reason I'm
holding back on the E-TECs is because of this "we" factor with "my"
boat. :)

I must admit that on single screw boats of this class, I've been
impressed with diesels, but to tell the truth, most of my boat diesel
experience is mostly teaching folk how to use their built-in stern
thrusters, slow speed maneuvering and general boat handling when they
upgrade from the 20 foot Trophy to the 35 foot whatever. :)

Later,

Tom

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 16:12:56 +0000, Chris Newport
wrote:

On Sunday 14 November 2004 12:00 pm in rec.boats Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

Are you referring to the "Salty Dog"? It does have a little resemblance
I guess. Nice looking boat. Why are you opposed to diesels?

Well, to tell the truth I'm a little leery of vibration in a boat this
size. It would seem to me that twin diesels in a boat like this it
would be both noisy and lot's of vibration.

Properly fitted diesel inboards should make a lot less
noise than outboards, and they should NOT vibrate unless
there is something seriously wrong such as bad mounts
or misaligned shafts.

There is a history here also. I much prefer outboards in most
situations, but then again, I don't have a lot of experience with
boats bigger than 25 feet other than my Contender which is my first
boat over 30 feet. I do instruction on handling, maneuvering and
docking with larger boats, but actual use, it's not a lot unless you
count that gained over 40 years ago. :)

Live long and prosper,

Tom

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 20:10:47 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
I must admit that on single screw boats of this class, I've been
impressed with diesels, but to tell the truth, most of my boat diesel
experience is mostly teaching folk how to use their built-in stern
thrusters, slow speed maneuvering and general boat handling when they
upgrade from the 20 foot Trophy to the 35 foot whatever. :)
===============================================

I forgot to mention the most important diesel issue for a fisherman:
range.

My Bertram 33 could not fish the canyons because of gas engines.
Even with a 320 gallon tank, safe working range was only about 130
miles. With diesels almost double that, with faster cruising speed as
a bonus. A modern high speed diesel should not vibrate if installed
correctly - solid stringers, good engine mounts/alignment, properly
sized props, straight shafts, good cutlass bearings. Noise is mostly
a matter of a proper exhaust system and engine room insulation. My
Grand Banks is quieter on the flybridge than the Bertram 33 with twin
454s.

Within 5 years I upgraded from a single engine 24 ft I/O to a twin gas
33 flybridge sportfish, to a twin diesel 49 trawler. Big, big
differences in handling between the boats. The jury is still out but
so far I consider the 49 to be the easiest to maneuver. It does not
tend to get blown sideways in cross wind docking like the Bert did.

Probably what, 2-4 times better than the Navigator?



Eisboch wrote:
Slightly over 4 times, if I recall. At cruise (19kts) the Navigator
burns about 26 gallons per hour (combined, both engines) which is not
too bad for a boat that probably displaces about 42,000 lbs loaded up
with all our junk. Based on some reading at Trawler World and similar
Websites I understand the little diesel in the GB burns around 3 gal/per
hour at 6-8kts, rising rapidly to 12 gal per hour WOT at a
wind-in-your-face 11-12kts.

If I'm reading this thread right, you're looking at a Lehman 120 in a
1982 Grand Banks 36?

It will never see 12 knots unless being towed by the USS Harry Truman!
Your top end will be in the neighborhood of 8.5 knots. It will burn
approx 1 gph at 6 ~ 6.5 knots, 1 1/2 gph at ~ 7, and from there it goes
up very steeply.



I have not met the current owner yet, but from dockside chatter I
understand he used the boat quite a bit. It has been all around the
Great Lakes, East Coast, Florida, Bahamas and even Cuba.

That's good. A boat that is used regularly is generally a much better
deal than one that has been sitting.

There are a few quirks about the Lehman I can tell you. The original
engine supplier, Bob Smith, is still in business (American Diesel,
Kilmarnock Va) and his son is extremely knowledgeable about these
engines. No problem there.

Don't forget about the transmission, either. At a very minimum, get an
oil sample analysis from both engine & transmission.

BTW the engine driven hydraulic stern thruster is a half-measure, a
kludge. IMHO as useless as mammary glands on a bull.



We haven't heard a response yet to the offer. Assuming he is serious
about selling it should be acceptable as it was close to his asking
price. We'll see.

There's a *lot* of boats out there for sale, assuming your wife doesn't
have her heart totally set on this one.

Fair Skies
Doug King