So, how the hell do the Brazilians get 7 bucks an hour !!!!?????

(I think I got a buck twenty-five)

:-) We're somewhere around the same general age bracket, I think, Eishboch.
When we were kids you could buy a real nice lunch for $1.25- cheeseburger,
fries, shake, etc, right?

Today, that same load of steaming fat and cholesterol will set you back about
$7. The pay's the same, only the numbers are different.

"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 09:10:59 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
http://letsriot.com/stuff/new_map.jpg


Eisboch

I love it...thanks...

Canada is looking attractive as a safe haven for skipping out on the
failing fascist United States...

He he: history repeats itself...

My ancestors on my Mother's side were United Empire Loyalists - fled the
US when they didn't like the politics there. Now there's a flood coming
north after the election (and not just for our flu vaccine!)

Lloyd Sumpter, Canadian.

LLoyd, those of us on the right think of the current administration as a
protector of our rights. Under Democrats (only in the last 50 year or so)
we loose rights.

When I hear us called the fascist state I have to remember that YOU can't
own a gun, pay more of your income in taxes to the government and have us
protecting your southern border against illegal immigration.

Let me try this another way, let's assume you owned a construction company
who needed unskilled labor for short periods of time. Your needs would
vary, from needing no unskilled labor to needing 50 short term unskilled
employees. Do you think society/government should mandate that you keep
these people on the payroll for the full 52 weeks and pay them a respectable
income, even if their services is not needed?

Of course not.



Society/government also mandates that we just increase the minimum wages so
that all an employees earn a living wage.
You build the rest of your argument around this false premise, so there is
little else to respond to. The government does not mandate that employers pay a
"living wage", or enough to meet all the expenses any family could run up by
having a dozen kids or living a lavish lifestyle. The purpose of a minimum wage
is to assign at least that much responsibility for the survival and support of
an employee, measured in dollars, to the employer rather than to the
taxpayer-funded social safety net.

"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 09:10:59 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:


He he: history repeats itself...

My ancestors on my Mother's side were United Empire Loyalists - fled the
US when they didn't like the politics there. Now there's a flood coming
north after the election (and not just for our flu vaccine!)

Lloyd Sumpter, Canadian.

You too Lloyd? My mothers mother's people were New York Dutch who left to
escape the ungrateful rabble in the 1770s. I wonder if the family could
claim a bit of New York real estate as repreations?

That is not a liberal philosophy, that is Capitalism at its best.


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Eisboch,
Gould showed us that when it is his company or his money, he is a brutal
Capitalist.

It's written somewhere that a liberal must be poor?

You and Eisboch both fail to see the fundamental liberalism in the hiring
philosophy. An employer has an obligation to create an atmosphere of
opportunity, where employees can grow and prosper.
This serves fiscal and social ends at the same time. Judge a business not
merely on how well the owner prospers, but how the employees grow and
prosper
as well.



I thought I
was a Capitalist, but I would have keep an employee if was able to do the
job he was paid to do.

Sounds like a government job. That sort of attitude will put a private
company
in the tank, especially a small one.

The guy merely doing the job he was hired to do was either mishired, (as
he has
no capacity to grow and therefore help the company at an increased level
of
responsibility), is undermotivated, or works in an environment that is not
interested in the future and well-being of the employee and does not
provide
opportunity and training for advancement.
Those are all management failures. Show me an enterprise filled with folks
merely doing "the job I was hired to do" and we'll see a stagnant or
failing
business.

I would not fire him or leave him in the roles of
unemployable just because I did not believe he could move up in the
corporation.

Ever hire anybody? That process always involves a decision to leave people
in
the ranks of the unemployed. Do you recommend that when a firm has a job
opening it should be filled with the first warm body to appear with an
application?
Failure to do so will probably leave somebody among the ranks of the
unemployed.

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 08:34:21 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 07:38:01 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

~~ snippity snip ~~

Remember the French language wars of the early '70s? French good,
English bad? Then they discovered that the France French they'd been
speaking for the past 200 or so years isn't French at all but an
amalgation of Basque, Spanish and English leading to purifying the
language by, and I loved this bit, sending French teachers to rural
Louisiana to learn "true" French.

Now that's pretty black and white in terms of culture isn't it? :)

Actually, it is both black and white and nuanced. Think about it.

I have - there is no nuance in a dead language that can't grow and
expand with the addition of new "foreign" words. It's just not
possible.

Anything that "defiles" the language is purged in favor of
non-inclusion of terms from other languages and cultures. That's not
nuance - that's pure simple arrogance and, if you wanted to use the
term, bigotry.

And it serves as an allegory for right-wing evangelical Christianity.

So you agree that French is a dead language and is bigoted then?

I think way to much emphasis is placed on nuance as being an
intellectual trait. Nuance certainly does have it's place in
philosophy, psychiatry/psychology and other medical professions that
are not based on pure science, but as a practical trait, a factor in
daily decision making, it's counter productive.

Well, we differ. Life to me is full of nuance.

Give me an example of what you consider nuance in the decision making
process.

All the best,

Tom
--------------

"What the hell's the deal with this newsgroup...
is there a computer terminal in the day room of
some looney bin somewhere?"

Bilgeman - circa 2004

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 08:46:28 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

thunder wrote:
On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 07:38:01 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:


There are a number of attractive places in the world where the Bushtapo
isn't...I suspect there will be a significant and increasing outflow of
some of our really best and brightest to those locations as the United
States of Jesus slides back into the primordial ooze.

Geez Harry, we aren't there yet. While I found the election results
*very* discouraging, I have faith in the resilience of this great country.
We will survive this administration. Also, don't forget, that since
Eisenhower, the Republicans haven't been able to run this country without
shooting themselves. I'm sure with all the zealots, the DeLays, history
will repeat itself.

My feeling is that we have so alienated the rest of the world that when
the next wave of terrorist attacks hits us, the consensus will be: those
arrogant Americans deserved it. And you know what...with the tens of
thousands of absolutely innocent civilians Bush is killing with aplomb,
it would be hard to argue against that opinion.

I've got a large piece of undeveloped land in Northern Virginia I've
owned for a very long time. I was going to develop it into 18-20 lots
for single-family estate houses. I'm thinking of selling it off now,
paying my capital gains taxes, and placing the proceeds offshore in a
safe, non-belligerent country.

I have no desire to live in a theocracy.

Then don't.

Later,

Tom

That is not a liberal philosophy, that is Capitalism at its best.

Why do you feel liberalism and capitalism are incompatible?

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 12:48:56 -0500, Eisboch
wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 05 Nov 2004 16:35:34 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:


Gould,
Do you have something against unskilled Mexicans who are willing to work for
minimum wage?

No.

I have a problem with guys who scream for
a society with overwhelming enforcement of most laws, but who personally profit
by entering into illegal employment contracts
with people so incredibly poor that *anything*, even $2-3/hour, is better than
stavation.


Just a quickie here - I've been watching the thread and have to jump
in.

Back when I had a working stable on the property, I couldn't find high
school kids for $11.00 an hour to muck out the stalls, do the hay,
feed and exercise the animals, etc. Just farm labor four days a week
and two hours on weekends.

I went to the local labor emporium and got some Brazilians who did it
for $7.00/hr. I didn't even ask - I just said to the guy at the
employment desk I needed four people, explained what I wanted and
there they were.

Now, when I have to get the hay off the field or some other task like
stacking wood for the winter, I just make the call and presto, more
people to help at the state minimum which I believe now is $7.25.

I can't pay them more if I wanted!!!

Tom, I lived in Woodbridge, CT for a couple of years while in high
school and used to muck stalls and feed horses after school at a race
horse stable in Orange.

So, how the hell do the Brazilians get 7 bucks an hour !!!!?????

That's was the State of CT job assigner said. That's what I paid 'em.

(I think I got a buck twenty-five)

HAH!! :)

When I was in high school, I had a job on Saturday's working for a
local TV store. $1.00 a day and all the electronics theory I could
eat. Oh, and he threw in a sandwich for lunch. :) During the
summers, I worked for a Captain who had a 50 foot Bertram as his mate
and kept the job at the TV store on Friday and Saturday. My Senior
year in high school was an interesting one as I eventually ran the TV
shop on Friday/Saturday and was allowed to take the Bertram out for a
run every once in a while all by my onsies.

(also where I learned how much I dislike horses)

Well, this whole thing started when the kids wanted horses. I had the
room and eventually I purchased a cedar log post 'n beam in Bolton,
had it transported here - it was eventually destined to garage my
antique car, truck and bass boat once the horses left. That expanded
into a small business for the girls when they were in high school as
they boarded some horses for friends and the like. When college came
along, I slowly dispersed the horses until there were no more horses.

That's where I learned to dislike horse owners. I still have one who
owes me $1,600.

PS: The barn is now a garage/wood shop.

Later,

Tom
-----------
"Angling may be said to be so
like the mathematics that it
can never be fully learnt..."

Izaak Walton "The Compleat Angler", 1653

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 16:22:12 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 08:34:21 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 07:38:01 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

~~ snippity snip ~~

Remember the French language wars of the early '70s? French good,
English bad? Then they discovered that the France French they'd been
speaking for the past 200 or so years isn't French at all but an
amalgation of Basque, Spanish and English leading to purifying the
language by, and I loved this bit, sending French teachers to rural
Louisiana to learn "true" French.

Now that's pretty black and white in terms of culture isn't it? :)

Actually, it is both black and white and nuanced. Think about it.

I have - there is no nuance in a dead language that can't grow and
expand with the addition of new "foreign" words. It's just not
possible.

Gotcha. You're thinking black and white and no nuance in terms of the
"fixated" culture. I'm thinking of the nuances in thinking brought about
by the search itself.

Wha?

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Later,

Tom