"Tinkerntom" wrote in message
m...
Hello riverman, I began to think that Keenan and I were the only ones
left here on this thread. Seems that others have been lurking for a
change.


Not 'lurking'. Ignoring. Which is something you ought to consider.

rbp has had a recent period of nonuse from several trolls and abusers taking
over the conversations and driving everyone away. A few years ago it was
quite a lively place, with a lot of regulars who paddled together and
swapped lots of info and stories. Then a few 'dissonant personalities' came
around, and just mucked up the place enough that people slipped off to other
forums. Recently, there has been a slow migration back here, but I think the
jury is still out as to whether or not it will stick. Probably a few people
have already tossed in the towel, while more are using the time-honored
technique of not pitching in to a dead-end thread, waiting for it to die.
Unfortunately, the participants usually carry over their agendas onto other
threads, which is what happened previously and killed the group. Worse yet
is when they chase each other onto other groups. Personally, my own
involvement on this thread has been only to help you use this to 'work out
the kinks'. I got no dog in whatever fight you and Keenan are having, but
I'd like to see rbp innoculated from the new 'dissonant personalities' who
seem to have found each other.


I have been having a rather enlightening conversation with Keenan,
which started way back, over who knows what all. Initially, I did not
even choose to attempt to engage him, in that I found his responses to
posts by others such as Retter, to be rather shallow and contrary.

And the reason you felt you had to get involved was...?

In order to carry on this conversation, I took your recommendation to
research who I was talking to, for you were the one who said, "Do you
know who you are talking to?"

Yes, I know what I said.

You take for granted your long term
posting relationship with each other, but I do not have that
advantage, so I researched in order to level the playing field, and
the mystery in some cases was only deepened.

Well, yes and no. I don't know Keenan, or many other posters here, from
Adam, and to my knowledge have never had conversations with him. I'm
figuring him out from reading his posts, but he and I don't go 'way back'
like some other folks here. Certainly he seems to be a bit of a blowhard,
but then again, I have lots of friends who are blowhards. But the reality is
that, yes, many people here DO have long term posting relationships, and
many of us have even met IRL. You can't level that playing field. You have
to just be around long enough to join the clique.

But in the 'do you know who you are talking to' vein: keep in mind, as a
newbie who probably wants access to good information in the future and the
chance to make friendships, that among the regular posters and lurkers here
are olympic boating champions, industry giants in manufacturing,
world-famous outfitters, safety experts and guides, people who invented
half the stuff we are paddling, and up-and-coming boaters of all sizes and
flavors. Not to induce you to be paranoid, but you have come into the big
house....wipe your feet at the door and mind the fingerprints on the fine
china. And no farting in public.


I have, in addition to Keenan, gone back and read previous post by
most of the prolific posters, on both sides of the issue being
discussed, not just Keenan. I have also checked out other web info
where ever I could find it, including you, wilko, etter, Keenan, and a
few others. No love affair here at all for Keenan, or any, or all of
you, but curious as to your background that influenced your
perspective in the specific "US political" discussion, and
particularly your world view.

Good luck with that! :-) Figuring out someone's political perspective, and
the reasons therof, might be one of the toughest things to do even IRL! But
certainly the pursuit might teach you more about the people. In reality,
though, I think the history you create yourself WITH the people is the best
method of 'getting to know' someone. My knowledge of folks here is based
almost entirely on the history of our communication, as is theirs of me. I
think you might learn a LOT if you select someone (you're welcome to use me,
but my posts may be too old); someone who seems to be a good fit here, and
read their first month or so of posts. Just to see how they dealt with
conflict, what they came here looking for, how they were received, and how
they repaired toes they invariably stepped on, or got stepped upon. People
who come in with guns a-blazing, defining the rules and setting the
boundaries among people who already have defined boundaries, almost never
end up being ingratiated or appreciated. Often they get run off. And those
who insist that 'they have a right to be here' end up with the place all to
themselves. Usenet is a weird place that way. My other favorite hangout,
roff, would have chewed you up alive, spit you out and let the door slap you
on the ass on the way out within the hour. We're much more tolerant here,
lucky for you.


Specifically, I was curious about why a person like Keenan with his
professional and educational credentials would post such tripe. I was
also amazed by the sheer volume of his posting, not only on the RBP,
but throughout usenet, and other discussion groups as well. Personally
I would have preferred to have been discussing anything, with anyone
other than Keenan, but it was an enlightening process, and as far as I
am concerned, he can post whatever, where ever, when ever he wants. I
could care less!

In addition, I found that in some of the other forums, where he has
made a nuisance of himself, that there was even discussion of
restricting his usenet access for Excess Posting, and abusive
postings, described by one victim as rape. To me, and in defense of
Keenan, that seemed a bit strong a description. If a person is on the
net posting, they had better be prepared for the flacK. Even as I have
been dealt on this thread, though it is my first attempt to post to
the Google usenet group, while learning the rules, and the
personalities involved. I requested no special treatment or
consideration, though I appreciate any that you have extended.

You're welcome, but I'll be honest. I could care less if you end up being a
regular here or not....I just am doing my part to keep rbp alive again. But
you think you have gotten flak?? Try this out: You have no idea how tolerant
folks have been of your Liberal-bashing, patronizing, condescending, idiotic
gleeful pseudo-religious insufferable smugness. Personally, I think the vast
majority of people here are supporting Keenan in your little ****ing match,
hoping you'll take a hint and crawl off back under whatever rock you slid
out from. The messages I am hearing are that you should FOAD.

By the way, THAT is just a hint of 'flak'. And I'm just an amateur at it.

You, on the other hand, are about to launch off on your soapbox, telling all
of Usenet 'the rules' again. See below:


I believe Keenan is responsible for the postings he has made.....
(snip)

I am not an administrator of the group, nor does he owe me any sort of
official explanation....

(snip)
He was free to pull out of the
conversation at any time....

(snip)
I encouraged Keenan, to step away from that discussion, and engage me
in something more productive....

(snip)
... and by this time the OT was
completely lost, so any topic was acceptable and appropriate, as long
as we both pursued it....

(snip)
He is a big boy, and could have pulled out at
any time....

(snip)
I also did not go to any other thread on this or any other
group to confront or contact Keenan in any way....

(snip)
If he can't handle the heat,
get out of the kitchen!!

Umm, there you go making the rules again. Do some googling on 'net nannies'.
While you're at it, consider how much you are making ME into one! :-(

I'm going to sign out here...I've told you what I know. I'm not the net
administrator, either, and all this is IMHO, but I've managed to land on
this, and other groups on my feet without having to produce a masterpiece
thesis justifying myself.

My last piece of advice: keep it purely on topic for awhile. You've pretty
much established yourself as a bit of a blowhard, and folks are still
sussing out whether or not you even are interesting in boating, and what you
may possibly have to contribute. And stop pushing your thread....if it
floats, it floats. If not, there's a message to you in that. Sorry for the
reality, but welcome to Usenet.

--riverman