Well Keenan, I'll try again to clarify a few of these issues.

You continue to mention the puritans, and I got to thinking that you
being in Canada have a different view of them than we down here in the
Colonies. They were the religious fanatics of the day, that incited
the riot we call the fight for independence. Of course to us they are
just a bunch of nice folks who wear funny hats, and eat turkey.

This would also suggest why you have a problem with the Constitution,
and think it got things wrong, and should be redone. You are still
licking your wounds over that little fracus back in 1776. Sorry you
lost that one too!

Also abortion. And censorsihp.

Abortion has been discussed before, but censorship is new. Who got
censored?

As it happens, I am not gay, but hatred against gay people is not
"hypothetical" for me any more than racism against black people or unequal
pay for women is "hypothetical."

What happens to you in US politics is all Hypothetical to you. It is
not to those of us who live here.

Isn't choice great! The Puritans came here inorder to exercise free
choice, and in so doing, chose to live in a land where others chose
differently. However it is also a democratic land where the majority
rules, and the minority is protected from the tyranny of the majority,
by the courts.

Much to the chagrin of George and friends who are furious that the courts
occasionally strike down some of their puritanical efforts. But a few
changes to the courts, and whammo, the powers of hate will have the
congress, the senate, the presidency, and the courts!

I'm glad that you saw what I said about the courts. They have proven
through the years to be a moderating factor in US politics. So the
Constitution does work, and there is hope for the Dems, and the
forest! and you!

The Majority is currently identified as the moral
mojority, and so is opposed to the immoral minority. I am not saying
that this is true or right, just that it is reality.

Whatever that means.

Think about it, maybe you will eventually get it.

The minority, now has the choice, of dealing with it, or slinking
away. I admire you that you are not slinking! That things are
difficult for you, no doubt! We were there for a long time, and only
recently have rallied the troops to take significant ground. Now is
not the time for us to get lazy either. We will keep pressing on, and
you can choose to get onboard or not. That is your choice!

Um. Half of your own country is not on board, and just about all of the rest
of the world is not on board. And you are not going to convince me to hate
people just because a lot of you have gotten your **** together with the
hatred of others as your focus.

All your counts don't count in US politics. The only poll that counts
is the one on Nov 2, and is only valid for four years!

Our choice is that we do not want to have Gay Marriages blighting the
landscape

What is your problem with gay marriages?

Asked and Answered, you still don't get it!

nor wanton abortion polluting our collective conscious.

again Asked and Answered!

But you are OK with young girls in the alley with coat hangers, right?

Of course not, but what a false dilemna. Before Roe v. Wade, there
were probably some coat hanger abortions. But not nearly the number of
abortions that go on today. Ironically, I heard that the majority of
babies aborted would probably have been raised in a Liberal home, and
would have swollen your voting ranks now by 20 million. The Dems could
have used those votes, and would have defeated Bush. You have cut
yourself off at the knees.

Will you find a way to deny rich people access to abortions too, or is this
another in your list of policies designed to advance hate against the less
fortunate.

The rich have money to go where they want, to do what ever they want.
They aren't going to planned parenthood clinics for an abortion.
However, we do not choose to have the bill footed by Uncle Sam either.
If the less fortunate can't afford an abortion, let them figure out
how to keep from getting pregnant. You know it still is a mystery.

Regarding blacks feeling intimidated at the polling place, I feel that
is generally a bogus charge.

Blacks feel intimidated at all sorts of places in America, the polling booth
certainly being one of the places where said intimidation is at its best.

There may be places this occurs, it is a
big country, but I am sure we would have heard more, if it was
rampant.

From who? Fox News!?!?

But it sure sounds politically powerful. And there is the
core of the problem for Liberals. They keep trying to find some magic
bullet to propel themselves into power, without really having a viable
platform. Now that would be really hijacking the election, if they
could have pulled it off, like feeding bogus exit polls to their
sheep, which made them feel real good for awhile, but the let down was
a real bummer. Of course if you can blame it on some "old white
dudes," hey, what a coup. Keep on believeing this BS, if it makes you
feel better.

No idea what you are talking about there,

Again Clueless!

but you do realize that the
election was a rather close one, and that it is going to be difficult to
keep people in a state of perpetual fear, or even another four years? Even
Americans will get bored with the so-called "war on terror."

Mm. Only y'all ain't born with equality of opportunity. But I spose
that's
just some crackpot liberal thinkin' there eh?

For a change, I think you got it right, sort of! We obviously are not
born with equal opportunity

Praise geezus.

but then that is not what the
Constitution is talking about. The Constitution says that we are all
born equal

Then the Constitution is wrong. You might want to fix it. I think you fixed
up some other parts that were wrong. Like the value of a black person? That
sort of thing.

and that there are certain inalienable rights. Health
care, or driving a Rolls, and living in Aspen, is not one of them.

What about the right to put all your money offshore and not pay even as much
tax as the poorest person?

live in Colorado, but not Aspen. I drive a hardly rolls, and I have to
pay for my own health insurance. I have a black neighbor who has a
newer car, - a management job, that I expect provides insurance, and
both of us could go up to ski in Aspen. Ain't America great,
independent of our skin color, we can go any place we choose. The
only thing that really holds us back, is our own vision of who we are
and where we want to be!

Too put it bluntly, that's an idiotic oversimplification. Your kids, or the
kids born to your neighbour, are not going to have the same barriers to
success as some kid growing up in a **** poor neighbourhood where the police
are afraid to go and the school is a war zone. It's easy to have a nice
vision when you are starting from the top of the mountain.

I am hardly at the top of the mountain, but as I understand it, anyone
who really wants to can climb the mountain. That is what made the US
unique! and people come still everyday, and are willing to do whatever
it takes to stay.

Luckily most voters realized that the above program is unacceptable,
if for no other reason, than who was going to pay for it? The promise
was that taxes would be raised on the rich. That works until there are
no more rich, and then they come after you and me, or at least me! No
thankyou!

LOL. Again, y'all were sayin' somethin' 'bout settin' up a false dilemma?

It is not a false dilemna, kerry said, he was going to raise the taxes
on the rich. Now you said earlier, that the rich don't pay taxes,
because they put them off shore. As if raising the amount due will
encourage them to bring their investments back on shore. That would
mean, Kerry would not be able to raise the promised taxes to support
the promised programs, so they would fail, unless he raise taxes on
me. I don't have off shore investments. The best I could hope for is
that Uncle Sam would take money from one of my pockets, and put it
back in another. This of course after he took his cut. Then all these
programs would fire up inflation, which is nothing more than a hidden
tax as my dollar buys less.


Now I am sure you will probably say Huh! so maybe we will talk more
about that later.


I am self-employed, which means I get to pay all my own taxes, and I
know how much I pay. I have paid a lot for a long time, and I am not
rich. I would not mind being rich, mind you, then I could maybe afford
to take a vacation or move up to Canada. But then I would spoil it for
you, and that luckily for you, is not a false dilemna.



You should come up here. See if you can pick out the gay married people from
the gay unmarried people the straight unmarried people and the straight
married people.

I never claimed that I could pick out gays from staight, married or
unmarried.
Unless I see two or more of them convorting together, and then there
is no doubt that all could ID them! So what is the point? This line of
reason does not make me want to have gay marriages in my community. If
gays want to live together, that is up to them, but we do not have to
sanction them as a married couple.

Similiarly, enviro issues are presented in the same way. If we sneak
it under the radar, make enough distracting noise, noone will realize
the finacial costs of these programs. The problem, is that we have
fallen for this before, and noone was buying it this time. Especially
considering that for the last 30 or 40 years Nader and his crowd, have
been singing the same song, but tell us the problems remain. That is
why he was ignored this time more than ever before. The fact that
Kerry, gave lipservice, to pacify the eco-warriors, only proves that
they are easily distracted!

Uh. Whatever all that means. The environment IS the economy. It just
ain't
rightly recognized as such by certain folk.

Clueless in Canada, the fact that you don't get what that means, only
shows how much out of contact you are with the issues that are
important to the majority of US voters. The environment is "not" the
economy, it is only a part of the economy. In a previous election, we
were told that "It is the economy, Stupid!" The Dems are still singing
the same song, but the band has moved on! The economy is always
important, it is just what the money is going to be spent on, and how,
that changes.

I have no idea what that is all supposed to mean, and I don't think you do
either. It sounds like one of George W's speeches. You know, the ones where
the sheep in the audience look all confused until they get the signal to
clap at the end?

OK, well, back to regular programming.

And that is a big part of the problem, is that liberals have fallen
back on their regular programming that worked for them in the 70's,
failing to update their prime time offerings. Any TV station that did
that would not last from one season to the next, how is it that the
Dems think they can go for decades without changing, their song and
dance!

Thanks for the Dance, Tinkerntom, aka Knesisknosis, Life, Live it!