|
No commentary necessary.
--riverman Hi riverman, or is it now aknowledged that you are SuperGuru, glad to see you hanging in there with all my posting snafus, etc. Sorry about wasting the band width! You demonstrated with your response, the very point of the article I posted though. You had been asking me to provide some support for my position, I posted, you responded with a cursory "nice", made no other comment about my position, and laid your egg on me. Now if I play the game, it is my turn to lay another egg, and then it is your turn..... Now I realize that a thread like this is fertile ground for egg laying, and everyone tooting there own horn. Reminds me of Mexico City in the 70's, They finally had to make a law against honking your horn in DF. Noise pollution!!!! This thread started on 11/3, I watched it for 10 days, only posting on the 13th. Now on the 21st, you, and the article you posted, only illustrate my original statement, and my current position. and the point of my article - However you want to analyze it, dissect it, and scream and moan in dispair, the Dems lost the election. "Outpolled, outmaneuvered and out of power, Democrats are suffering an identity crisis." Now I am not saying that Bush won everything that he wanted, could have, or that he has any reason to claim an outstanding victory, as your article points out. And sadly, the Dems largely lost because the man they put forward turned out to be a Dud. But the Dems lost, and the sooner they accept this and move on, the sooner good things will begin to happen. But it seems even with the posting of your article, that you are still struggling with the results of the election. Probably you do need a time to grieve, and I am just not being understanding enough. I apologize. I also apologized for sticking you in the eye, however you were the one that originally referred to me as "snaking in". Yes you did not see me coming but I am not a snake, or a troll! I would not have gotten involved in this thread at all except for all the Bush bashing that had been going on long before I posted! My understanding of a troll, is that they typically start a thread like this, stomp around, and then sneak out. Leaving a bunch of folks hurt! If I've hurt anyone, I apologize. In fact, if we ever meet, show me your "Owwie", and I have a bunch of bandaids. Otherwise, I do not plan to sneak away, and if some of you continue to have fun at my expense, I glad to keep you happy. Lord knows, you need all the joy you can get in these next four dismal years! I again hope that this is not an elite board only available for elite international paddlers who have a liberal world view, and those who agree with them. Obviously there are concervatives out there as well, some of whom have joined in this thread. I came here first several years ago, because I am interested in hearing and learning and sharing with others who are paddling enthusiast. I did not come to find, or make political commentary. I did not come to find or make religious statements. In a previous post, you ask who am I, and I tried to share a little of where I am comming from. If you are interested, fine. If not, no big deal. I'm here to talk paddling, and to hear paddling, and I am sure you all have alot to offer. I am especially glad that this is not an all American board, and that there are international viewpoint expressed. Just understand, that I am here to stay. If you blast me and the things that I feel are important, then you are fair game as well, for I am not one to roll over as you now know. Now that the intros are over, lets get on with the paddlin" Tinkerntom ...... |
Hi again riverman, I was thinking SuperGuru is a bit long, what about
SuprG, I hope you are sincere about needing to be educated more, because the basic foundation of an electoral government depends on an educated populace. And that's not elite Liberal intellectualism talking to you, its out of the Federalist Papers and was a major concern of the Founding Fathers. And according to a lot of people, it is what has failed in this election. People *rejected* evidence and went for single, oversimplified representative issues. Gay rights, abortion, MORALS. And they ignored some huge, internationally significant and complex issues: the war, trade tariffs, financial accountability, international relations, political favoritism. None of these capture the big picture, and if its a complex government in a complex world we are voting for, then it is more important than ever that the voters learn about as many sides of the issues as possible. I don't know what's been happening on American TV (besides reality shows), but I know the international TVs and international Press has been *all over* lots and lots of the issues. And the more educated European populace was floored by the election results, and pretty wholheartedly disillusioned by a nation they used to admire. And don't just listen to educated intellecual Liberal elites (ILEs) and brush them off....get some of your own data and throw it on the fire to see how it smells. Debate with supporting evidence....THAT'S the way to stop fearing people with facts and opinions. But classifying them as ILEs and shoving your head deeper in the sand does nothing at best, and makes bad things worse, at worse. --riverman Oh, and PS: Four more years of President Bush could mean a lot of our wilderness gets opened up to development and timber harvesting. I haven't been this worried for the wildlands since James Watt. Well, you got four years, let the education begin. I already have read more eco and enviro stuff in the last few days, than in the previous year. Respectfully, Tinkerntom, aka KnesisKnosis, Life, Live it! |
"Tinkerntom" wrote in message ... No commentary necessary. --riverman Hi riverman, or is it now aknowledged that you are SuperGuru, glad to see you hanging in there with all my posting snafus, etc. Sorry about wasting the band width! Ah, no worries; everyone screws up in the early days, even conservative neocons who think they own the world. There are several Usenet protocol faqs out there....you shoud read up on them. You demonstrated with your response, the very point of the article I posted though. You had been asking me to provide some support for my position, I posted, you responded with a cursory "nice", made no other comment about my position, and laid your egg on me. Now if I play the game, it is my turn to lay another egg, and then it is your turn..... Egg? I don't think so....I was showing you an article that supported another (and not diametrically opposed) point of view. Now we get to discuss what the articles said. Yours said that the dems are suffering an identity crisis and need to reorganize if they want to play ball. No argument there...but then that's not your point. Your point is that the sweeping success of Bush and the republicans demonstrates a huge shift in the countries morals and values to the right (or at least, a clear demonstration of the stance that had already existed). My point is that this is not so, and that you are being far too smug about the election results. The shift was actually closer to 3% to the right, which closely matched the increase in the fundamentalist vote. I spent 4 years in Israel, and their political system has some interesting aspects which were suddenly mirrored by our last election. The Knesset, the Israeli house of congress, is composed of representatives of all the major political parties, with seats allocated by percent of the popular vote. Whichever party is in control of the Prime Ministership has to scab together enough support from the Knesset seats to hold greater than 50% support...that's what they refer to as 'forming a government'. Inevitably, however, the major players end up splitting the seats with their traditional allies until there is a 49-49 split. Then, this small ultraconservative minority party who holds out until the end, and that holds 3 little seats, finds themselves in an incredibly powerful position....whichever side they choose to go with ends up with the majority. They know exactly where they stand, and it is very influential, and they use it incessantly. Although they represent only a 3% slice of the population, they are very outspoken about how Israel is an ultraconservative country, because their ultraconservative agenda comes to play in practically all the major issues. Of course, absolutely everybody on both sides is learning to despise them, because they insist on pushing their agenda over the interests of the other 98%, but you have to admit that they have clout, as irritating as it is invalid. Yes, your Bush won the election. Yes, the Conservative Right has found itself influential because of various reasons. Yes the Democrats are finding themselves disenfranchised and unorganized. No, the US has not suddenly shifted far to the right, and to claim that these election results reflects the opinions and morals of the majority of America is quite self-serving and inaccurate. And with that in mind, the Republicans are quite well-warned to consider their Liberal Democratic countrymen, as there are quite a few of us....practically the same amount, by last count, and we are finding the republicans smug alienation of us and our issues very disenfranchising. And as the Senate Majority leader of Tennessee (R) said: you pass the same people going down as you did coming up. And what does any of this have to do with Bush's horrific environmental policy? --riverman |
Brian Nystrom wrote...
....so much same ol' same ol'. Yawn. I'm outta here. |
Tinkerntom wrote:
I am not, nor do I know Scott Weiser. Great! and You're Probably Lucky. Welcome to the group. It's good to have more active participants here. I tried Boatertalk some, but the interface was too-time-consuming, so it's kind of a shame that this newsgroup is relatively inactive. Political threads bore me somewhat, but given that where we can paddle is a political issue, I'd say they are definitely on topic. Speaking of politics, please welcome Kevin Lewis as President of AWA! He is a (northern California) Shasta Paddler who worked on getting us scheduled late summer releases on the North Fork Feather! |
Ok, now I'm curious. I've been reading here (RBP, not this thread - or maybe
it is this thread) for quite some time and the name is familiar - was he the sponson guy? Ken "Bill Tuthill" wrote in message ... Tinkerntom wrote: I am not, nor do I know Scott Weiser. Great! and You're Probably Lucky. Welcome to the group. It's good to have more active participants here. I tried Boatertalk some, but the interface was too-time-consuming, so it's kind of a shame that this newsgroup is relatively inactive. Political threads bore me somewhat, but given that where we can paddle is a political issue, I'd say they are definitely on topic. Speaking of politics, please welcome Kevin Lewis as President of AWA! He is a (northern California) Shasta Paddler who worked on getting us scheduled late summer releases on the North Fork Feather! |
Brian Nystrom
I agree that's troubling, but it would only get worse if the Democrats controlled everything again. The only reason that government got smaller under Clinton was that he wasn't able to get Hillay's outrageous health care program through Congress. It was so outlandish that even the Democrats wouldn't vote for it. After '94, the Republicans kept him in check. Even as the current Republican Congress blocked the current President from just having his way regarding 9/11 Commission. I don't expect there is any free sliding by to be had. Of course there will be a few more R congressmen, and a few less D in the next congress, so yet to be seen how that goes! This is the rest of the story as PH says. The Ds can rant about President Bush, but the real problem is they lost more ground in the Senate and House. If they had made gains there, I suspect that we would not be hearing so much about Bush. They have to digest this double loss, and face the prospect of losing in the Supreme Court as well. An unenviable position. Oci-One wrote: The Republicans will never cut the programs that provide jobs or lower commodity and services costs for the heartland "conservatives". They would prefer to (hypocritically) subsidize a farm family that votes Thats right, and who was it that set up those programs in the first place. It was not the CFRs, but now you want them to cut the Programs. Your man could have cut the programs when he was President, and think how much more a surplus he could have shown. Why didn't He? That is right, they vote! *against* Big Gubmint than to provide food and heating oil for the children of a single mom (so what if Mom is a dirtbag; I'm talking about her children here I believe there are programs to subsidize heating bills so that the children do not get cold or hungry. Unless the funds have all been sucked up by greedy administrator, who tap into that lifeline for their own benefit, and then want more and always for the children. -- but Christians don't understand such fine distinctions) in a big city. Personally, I don't mind subsidizing the heartland counties, but then, I'm a "big gubmint" liberal, and compassionate enough to want to care for my fellow Americans in the depressed areas, even if they are stupid, uneducated, and hypocritical enough to vote *against* the very Big Gubmint that sustains them. The people in the urban area, typically voted for Kerry who promised them more hand outs, for their vote. And that was stupid, and I suppose you could say uneducated, because after the 30 years of progect lives, you would think they would get educated that those type of programs don't work. The hypocrisy is on the part of those who make the promises, election cycle after cycle, with no intention of ever paying up! Brian wrote: Fine, feel free to donate as much of your income as you see fit. The IRS WILL accept extra tax contributions. Just don't expect anyone with any sense to follow your lead. If you reall want to help people, it's FAR more efficient to donate to a charity that supports those you want to help than it is to give it to politicians to redistribute. There is not an economist in the country who will tell you (with a straight face) that the Republicans are fiscally conservative (that's why I am no longer a Republican.) Are you saying you were a Republican, now that is embarassing! Granted, they have strayed badly and need to be reigned back in. They will maintain the programs that sustain the rednecks, to keep their voting base, and they will maintain the anti-free-market policies that sustain the corporations, to keep their financial base. So now Democrats are supposed to be the free market party??? That's hilarious! Well said Brian!!!! What the Republicans ARE is SOCIALLY conservative, and that is like ****ing in the wind; society will change whether they want it to or not. People will use dope whether it is legal or not. Homos will screw homos whether the good Christians like it or not. And women will get abortions, whether they are legal or not. The only way they can keep society from changing socially is to institute police-state tactics (where is John Ashcroft when we need him?) and to keep NeoCons in power by keeping the Terrorist Alert level up there around Orange to keep people frightened, whether there is any proximate cause or not. It's funny how society backlashes against these changes periodically. While we can never go back to the 50's, the pace of change can be slowed so that changes can be assimilated more gradually and with less societal trauma. The real problem is our "instant gratification" mindset. The simple truth that we can't have it all right now. Again well said Brian!!!! That's because the politicians -- and 50% of the voting public -- are morons. Oh, yeah, I forgot that liberals are the annointed keepers of all knowledge and truth. Please forgive me. Ah yes, the classic liberal response. Ever notice that when conservatives lose an election, they become introspective and ask "where did we go wrong", but when liberals lose, they become indignant and immediately start pointing fingers and blaming the public for "being stupid" and "not understanding". Afterall, they are pre-ordained to rule, right? What liberals don't get is that you lose because people DO understand! They absolutely get it and they're SMART enough to reject it! As long as liberals live in a world of denial, they'll never succeed. So, keep up the good work! Having called 50% of the voters Morons, reannointed themselves as keepers of all that is true, and pointed their fingers and blamed eveyone except themselves, for why they lost the last election. They are now ready to prepare for the next election, by making every possible emotional appeal to all the Morons of why they should vote for them, because they are the Ones, and us over here are not the Ones. Good strategy, keep it up! Or get a message, that you can convince us you really believe! Good job Brian, hang in there and keep paddlin'! Respectfully, Tinkerntom, aka Knesisknosis, Life, Live it! |
TnT wrote:
You demonstrated with your response, the very point of the article I posted though. You had been asking me to provide some support for my position, I posted, you responded with a cursory "nice", made no other comment about my position, and laid your egg on me. Now if I play the game, it is my turn to lay another egg, and then it is your turn..... Egg? I don't think so....I was showing you an article that supported another (and not diametrically opposed) point of view. Egg..., by this I mean you have your POV, and I have mine, and we can each find support, not that there is anything wrong with that, just that I prefer the discussion you offer, and I accept. Egg throwing can get messy!!! Now we get to discuss what the articles said. Yours said that the dems are suffering an identity crisis and need to reorganize if they want to play ball. No argument there...but then that's not your point. Your point is that the sweeping success of Bush and the republicans demonstrates a huge shift in the countries morals and values to the right (or at least, a clear demonstration of the stance that had already existed). Negatory, I no where suggested that there has been a hugh shift to the right, but that they won this round, a squeaker yes, but they did win, and the sooner the Dems acknowledge this, and learn to play according to the new game plan, the better for everyone involved. My point is that this is not so, and that you are being far too smug about the election results. Yes I was being smug, about winning, and it did feel good. Now we all get to go back to work, and see if we can work together! As far as I know, we are all still on the same team. Politics is a very strange game! The shift was actually closer to 3% to the right, which closely matched the increase in the fundamentalist vote. I spent 4 years in Israel, and their political system has some interesting aspects which were suddenly mirrored by our last election. The Knesset, the Israeli house of congress, is composed of representatives of all the major political parties, with seats allocated by percent of the popular vote. Whichever party is in control of the Prime Ministership has to scab together enough support from the Knesset seats to hold greater than 50% support...that's what they refer to as 'forming a government'. Inevitably, however, the major players end up splitting the seats with their traditional allies until there is a 49-49 split. Then, this small ultraconservative minority party who holds out until the end, and that holds 3 little seats, finds themselves in an incredibly powerful position....whichever side they choose to go with ends up with the majority. They know exactly where they stand, and it is very influential, and they use it incessantly. Although they represent only a 3% slice of the population, they are very outspoken about how Israel is an ultraconservative country, because their ultraconservative agenda comes to play in practically all the major issues. Of course, absolutely everybody on both sides is learning to despise them, because they insist on pushing their agenda over the interests of the other 98%, but you have to admit that they have clout, as irritating as it is invalid. Yes, your Bush won the election. The riverman finally said it, let the world hear. Bravo! That is still too smug, isn't it? Sorry!! Yes, the Conservative Right has found itself influential because of various reasons. Yes the Democrats are finding themselves disenfranchised and unorganized. No, the US has not suddenly shifted far to the right, and to claim that these election results reflects the opinions and morals of the majority of America is quite self-serving and inaccurate. And with that in mind, the Republicans are quite well-warned to consider their Liberal Democratic countrymen, as there are quite a few of us....practically the same amount, by last count, and we are finding the republicans smug alienation of us and our issues very disenfranchising. And as the Senate Majority leader of Tennessee (R) said: you pass the same people going down as you did coming up Again well said riverman, I have no problem with what you have said here, and indeed the elevator can go down real fast. Let the CFRs take heed!!!!!! And what does any of this have to do with Bush's horrific environmental policy? Well it has everything, if the CFRs had not won, the DUDs would have won! Then we would have been talking about they're plans for the environment, instead of President Bush's. But that is nor reality, and we are hear to deal with reality. BTW definition, DUD - Disenfranchised, unorganized, Dems. --riverman Thankyou for the discussion, we are in amazing agreement. But I would like to go back up in your post and examine your discussion of the Knesset. I have nothing to disagee with you on here either, I am not personally informed of the nature of the Knesset, except by the noble institution of higher education called the public news media, or as some call it, the boob tube. So, at least for this discussion I am more than willing to accept your description, and as far as I know would not be in disagreement with the media observations. Concerning the American political scene, I have heard that it is deeply divided to which I totally disagree. I figure, there are about 75-80% in the great center, with shadings this way or that, but generally very similar, and with common concerns. Around the fringes, are your ultras... whatever their particular issue is. Now, if you take this pie, and cut it in half, you will find half on one side and half on the other, but that does not mean that you have apple pie on one side, and peach on the other. We are much more homogenous than that. The politician game is to attract enough of the fringe to form a coalition government on his side, and all he needs, is 271 electoral votes. Oviously there are areas of difference, but if he wants to survive, he still has to listen to the majority, and not just the fringe. You mentioned the 3% Ultra orthodox, which holds such sway, which in Israel, a religious country, is not a surprise. Here though, I don't believe that the fundementalist are such a force. If than for no other reason, they are as fickle as any other voter, and more than a lot. They can change sides because they get ticked off over a indiscreet act, Nixson's swearing, or lack of acting, Carter's ineptness. Nixson was a Quaker?? Carter, was a born again Christian, but they jumped ship for an actor from the den of iniquity, Hollywood. When you figure that one out, let me know. Then there were a bunch that identified with Clinton, because he was a Christian, and did they get their pants embarassed off. So they swung back to the other side, and supported Bush. If I were Bush, I would sure be careful!!!!! It all sounds like shaky ground to build a legacy on. There are all kinds of issues swirling around in an election. One side takes a stand, to bait the other, and pretty soon you have this hubbub going on, and it may not even be around an issue that is important to either side. But you would never know from the noise. In the mean time, important issues lay lanquid on the table, crying for attention, and no one is listening! Politics is indeed strange. I really don't think that the missing explosives was a significant political issue, or stem cells, or even gay marriage. It was to some, the vocal, but not to the majority in the center. So many of these special interest appeal to a particular fringe. It would seem to me, if you could find the center, ignore the fringe, appeal to the true majority, you could win without scraping up the crumbs. There is nothing more sniveling than a crumb scraper. The coup of the CFR, is that there are Christians throughout the pie. They are not just on the fringe, or easily identified because they wear a certain hat or gown. Granted, there are some out there like that, but most are nondescript. The biggest mistake is to identify all the same, as Fundementalist. In fact by so doing, you perpetuate the myth. The myth is our strength. You give us the power of the 3%. Not that all Christians are fundementalist, but when someone speaks disparaging of one, or Lord help you a bunch, there is a whole lot more that will come swarming to their aid. After awhile the swarm achieves critical mass where they are coming faster than they are falling away, and so it grows. The solution is to certainly not continue making disparaging remarks. That just feeds the reaction. Now, I am a Christian, but I am not a Fundementalist. Do I believe in certain fundementals yes, but you would have a hard time finding many fundementalist that would feel comfortable setting down to a cup of coffee. And certainly by the end, they would be very uncomfortable. So, you want to get together for a cup of coffee? Thats for another discussion. Respectfully Tinkerntom, aka Knesisknosis Life, Live it! |
Bill Tuthill wrote in message ...
Tinkerntom wrote: I am not, nor do I know Scott Weiser. Great! and You're Probably Lucky. Welcome to the group. It's good to have more active participants here. I tried Boatertalk some, but the interface was too-time-consuming, so it's kind of a shame that this newsgroup is relatively inactive. Political threads bore me somewhat, but given that where we can paddle is a political issue, I'd say they are definitely on topic. Speaking of politics, please welcome Kevin Lewis as President of AWA! He is a (northern California) Shasta Paddler who worked on getting us scheduled late summer releases on the North Fork Feather! I appreciate your hospitality, and I do welcome Kevin. My folks were from central California, I was born in Hanford, and grew up hearing the name Shasta, and Kern River. We moved from the area, when very young, but have always wanted to come see these places. Keep them nice for me, and maybe someday I can make it out there. Welcome, and Thankyou, Tinkerntom, aka KnesisKnosis, Life, Live it! |
Keenan Wellar
Message-ID: BDC6D50F.121E5%UseAddressOnWebPageProvided@hotmai l.com If it was about sex, it would be a problem. Going to war and killing thousands of people...not an issue. Since the President doesn't gather intelligence himself, one could very legitimately state that the information was a mistake. I doubt that such is the case when you have some intern blowing you in the Oval Office. I would point out that the Clinton Administration relieved and criminally prosecuted Military Officers for the same behavior. SYOTR Larry C. |
"Tinkerntom" wrote in message m... Brian Nystrom I agree that's troubling, but it would only get worse if the Democrats controlled everything again. The only reason that government got smaller under Clinton was that he wasn't able to get Hillay's outrageous health care program through Congress. It was so outlandish that even the Democrats wouldn't vote for it. After '94, the Republicans kept him in check. Even as the current Republican Congress blocked the current President from just having his way regarding 9/11 Commission. I don't expect there is any free sliding by to be had. Of course there will be a few more R congressmen, and a few less D in the next congress, so yet to be seen how that goes! This is the rest of the story as PH says. The Ds can rant about President Bush, but the real problem is they lost more ground in the Senate and House. If they had made gains there, I suspect that we would not be hearing so much about Bush. They have to digest this double loss, and face the prospect of losing in the Supreme Court as well. An unenviable position. Indeed. But not just for the Democrat Party. That would give the Bush administration full license to take the campaign of fear and hatred to new levels and realize their dreams...like making being gay illegal...making abortion the privelege of the rich...oh, what fun they could have! Fortunately, they will go to far. Even people who have been sucked into a perpetual vortex of fear - if pushed far enough - will eventually say "to hell with it, I'm tired of being afraid" and that will be the end of it. Looking at the Bush arrogance that started two seconds after yet another thin victory, the Democrats should be able to run yet another dud next time around and manage a win. |
"Larry Cable" wrote in message ... Keenan Wellar Message-ID: BDC6D50F.121E5%UseAddressOnWebPageProvided@hotmai l.com If it was about sex, it would be a problem. Going to war and killing thousands of people...not an issue. Since the President doesn't gather intelligence himself That's for sure! one could very legitimately state that the information was a mistake. It's easy to make such mistakes when the tail is wagging the dog. I doubt that such is the case when you have some intern blowing you in the Oval Office. Only in America would that be seen as a more serious offense than starting a war on false pretenses. |
Keenan Wellar"
Only in America would that be seen as a more serious offense than starting a war on false pretenses. You assume that because the intelligence didn't prove to be entirely correct that it was a fabrication, but I've seen no evidence of that being true. I've looked at the same intelligence, most of it is available at the UN or www.globalintelligence.com, or even at the CIA website, and it all pointed to the same conclusion, that Saddam was still pursueing programs to develop WMD. The only difference in any of the was to the extent he was being successful and how to deal with it. Intelligence is often inaccurate. The bad guys are trying to keep you from finding things out and often your source of information is indirect. Even Humintel can get chancy, these sources often have scores to settle or their own agenda. The real offense Clinton committed was that the prejured himself when questioned about the having oral sex. Even that really didn't go very far. SYOTR Larry C. |
"Larry Cable" wrote in message ... Keenan Wellar" Only in America would that be seen as a more serious offense than starting a war on false pretenses. You assume that because the intelligence didn't prove to be entirely correct that it was a fabrication, but I've seen no evidence of that being true. I've looked at the same intelligence, most of it is available at the UN or www.globalintelligence.com, or even at the CIA website, and it all pointed to the same conclusion, that Saddam was still pursueing programs to develop WMD. The only difference in any of the was to the extent he was being successful and how to deal with it. Intelligence is often inaccurate. The bad guys are trying to keep you from finding things out and often your source of information is indirect. Even Humintel can get chancy, these sources often have scores to settle or their own agenda. The real offense Clinton committed was that the prejured himself when questioned about the having oral sex. Even that really didn't go very far. SYOTR Larry C. Only in America could getting accurate confirmation of intelligence before starting a war be of greater importance than telling the truth about who you had oral sex with. |
Tinkerntom wrote:
Hillary Care was a startup program that would have cost several trillion by itself, with no guarantee that it would work, and a history of big government boondoggles and porkbarrel politics supporting programs that don't work. If I remember right, they estimated 1.7 trillion, and politician estimates are always low when they are the ones trying to sell the program! But what is another 500 billion +/-, we would have gotten, mediocre medical care, by doctors who gave up really caring, after standing in long lines, waiting for our slice of the American Pie. So how is that different from our current health care system? The current employer-based insurance-reimbursement system is a shambles. A single-payer system could very well result in a lower percentage of GDP being paid for health care. In 1990 the US spent more on health care per capita than any other western nation, and by 1996 spent even more as a % of GDP. Total 1990 Healthcare Expenditures Nation Per Capita Percent ========================================== United States $2,566 12.1 (1996=13.6%) Canada 1,770 9.3 France 1,532 8.8 Sweden 1,451 8.6 Germany 1,486 8.1 Switzerland 1,633 7.7 Italy 1,236 7.7 Norway 1,184 7.4 Japan 1,171 6.5 United Kingdom 972 6.2 [ http://www.corporatism.netfirms.com/universal.htm ] |
No Spam wrote: Ok, now I'm curious. I've been reading here (RBP, not this thread - or maybe it is this thread) for quite some time and the name is familiar - was he the sponson guy? Nope, he is a non-paddler land owner who got really angry when paddlers used "his" part of a little stream in Colorado (Was it Boulder Creek?). In one such event he described the paddlers calling him (and his mother?) names. At first he would lure (new to this forum) paddlers into "discussions" with carefully worded messages, then he'd verbally kick the **** out of them. Most of the regular visitors knew to ignore him. Lately, he got into a sad shadow of his former eloquent self, becoming verbally abusive and badly worded in his responses. I think he lost his riverside land not so long ago when his mother died. The spamson guy was just a completely different pest: he'd post the same posts hundreds of times, hijacking every thread, attacking people blindly and using disgusting arguments (the deaths of children on a paddling trip and such) to try to force paddlers (including white water paddlers!) and the Coast Guard to sell his floatation devices... Where Scott used to be pretty bright, spamson guy Timmy was a clear case of someone with at least one screw loose... It was because of the latter that I put up the trolling page. http://wilko.webzone.ru/troll.html Wilko -- Wilko van den Bergh wilko(a t)dse(d o t)nl Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe ---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.--- http://wilko.webzone.ru/ |
Dave Van wrote:
"Tinkerntom" wrote in message m... Hi, my Dutch friend Wilko, and I mean that sincerely. I took rivermans recommendation, and did some research on some of my apparent antagonist, and found that you are a well document foreigner. OMG ROFLMAO!!! -- Wilko van den Bergh wilko(a t)dse(d o t)nl Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe ---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.--- http://wilko.webzone.ru/ |
"Wilko" wrote in message ... Dave Van wrote: "Tinkerntom" wrote in message m... Hi, my Dutch friend Wilko, and I mean that sincerely. I took rivermans recommendation, and did some research on some of my apparent antagonist, and found that you are a well document foreigner. OMG ROFLMAO!!! Is there such a thing as a 'foreigner' on the internet? If there were an occassional 'yeah, baby' thrown into this guys writing I'd swear it was Austin Powers, International Man of Mystery. Life. Live it, Baby... Yeah! |
I'm certainly no expert in healthcare but I think the billing process takes
a very large chunk of the dollar paid. I used to go to an old dentist that had no staff and took only cash. If credit was needed it was from him. He wrote it in his notebook and you paid when you came back. I assume he sent you packing if the bill got too large and he felt you could pay. I do know that he wrote it off, if he knew you couldn't pay. His prices were about 50% of what other dentists charged and my father skipped the dental insurance offered by his work because there was no need. My current dentist has a full time staff of at least 4 that deal with billing because the insurance companies are such a pain to deal with (busy father-son office). So for 2 dentists and 4 hygienists he needs 4 people to do billing. That has to add up to a good percentage of the incoming cash to be eaten up in overhead related directly to the problems with collection. I don't know what the big picture solution may be but I was reading an article about a few doctors offices that have gone to a cash only system and dropped their prices accordingly. The article stated that a large number of their patients were self employed people that were more than happy to switch their coverage to catastrophic and pay cash for normal office visits and tests. The upside was the doctors actually pocketed more per patient and were able to cut their patient load to a reasonable level which provided a better level of service for their patients. .. "Bill Tuthill" wrote in message ... Tinkerntom wrote: Hillary Care was a startup program that would have cost several trillion by itself, with no guarantee that it would work, and a history of big government boondoggles and porkbarrel politics supporting programs that don't work. If I remember right, they estimated 1.7 trillion, and politician estimates are always low when they are the ones trying to sell the program! But what is another 500 billion +/-, we would have gotten, mediocre medical care, by doctors who gave up really caring, after standing in long lines, waiting for our slice of the American Pie. So how is that different from our current health care system? The current employer-based insurance-reimbursement system is a shambles. A single-payer system could very well result in a lower percentage of GDP being paid for health care. In 1990 the US spent more on health care per capita than any other western nation, and by 1996 spent even more as a % of GDP. Total 1990 Healthcare Expenditures Nation Per Capita Percent ========================================== United States $2,566 12.1 (1996=13.6%) Canada 1,770 9.3 France 1,532 8.8 Sweden 1,451 8.6 Germany 1,486 8.1 Switzerland 1,633 7.7 Italy 1,236 7.7 Norway 1,184 7.4 Japan 1,171 6.5 United Kingdom 972 6.2 [ http://www.corporatism.netfirms.com/universal.htm ] |
Ok - I remember that guy also. When I started reading here sometime last
year, I think RPB was in a cycle of posts from him. Followed by a round from the other guy. I stopped reading for a while until it died down - I also had paddling to do, so it was not all their fault ; Thanks for the reply, I liked your page too, it was very informative. Ken "Wilko" wrote in message ... No Spam wrote: Ok, now I'm curious. I've been reading here (RBP, not this thread - or maybe it is this thread) for quite some time and the name is familiar - was he the sponson guy? Nope, he is a non-paddler land owner who got really angry when paddlers used "his" part of a little stream in Colorado (Was it Boulder Creek?). In one such event he described the paddlers calling him (and his mother?) names. At first he would lure (new to this forum) paddlers into "discussions" with carefully worded messages, then he'd verbally kick the **** out of them. Most of the regular visitors knew to ignore him. Lately, he got into a sad shadow of his former eloquent self, becoming verbally abusive and badly worded in his responses. I think he lost his riverside land not so long ago when his mother died. The spamson guy was just a completely different pest: he'd post the same posts hundreds of times, hijacking every thread, attacking people blindly and using disgusting arguments (the deaths of children on a paddling trip and such) to try to force paddlers (including white water paddlers!) and the Coast Guard to sell his floatation devices... Where Scott used to be pretty bright, spamson guy Timmy was a clear case of someone with at least one screw loose... It was because of the latter that I put up the trolling page. http://wilko.webzone.ru/troll.html Wilko -- Wilko van den Bergh wilko(a t)dse(d o t)nl Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe ---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.--- http://wilko.webzone.ru/ |
Is there such a thing as a 'foreigner' on the internet?
Linux and Apple users maybe? Sorry, when I'm not on the water, I sideline as a techie nerd. I couldn't help myself. - I will also plead insanity as I have not been able to get out on the water for about 2 months and my brain is beginning to rot. Ken "Dave Van" wrote in message link.net... "Wilko" wrote in message ... Dave Van wrote: "Tinkerntom" wrote in message m... Hi, my Dutch friend Wilko, and I mean that sincerely. I took rivermans recommendation, and did some research on some of my apparent antagonist, and found that you are a well document foreigner. OMG ROFLMAO!!! Is there such a thing as a 'foreigner' on the internet? If there were an occassional 'yeah, baby' thrown into this guys writing I'd swear it was Austin Powers, International Man of Mystery. Life. Live it, Baby... Yeah! |
Hey Wilko,
I'm glad to hear from you again, and I am glad that my last post brought you so much laughter. Laughter is good for the heart, so you should be in good shape, at least for awhile. Let me know when you need some more, and I'll see what I can come up with. When you are ROTFLMAO, be sure and wear your elbow pads. I would hate to be the cause of you incurring a carreer ending injury! I did do some googling on Weiser also, and found that usenet has a killfile on him, so it appears that he has gone other places, since he can't get thru here so easily. Also I heard that he no longer has the ranch, but that could just be one of the urban legends. He worked in Boulder for the Boulder Camera, and I found some interviews. I'll let you check them out if your interested, no point jambing things up here. But I found that he is still posting on some of the other systems, and hasn't changed his tune. Before, I came here to the RBP, I had run into Timmy's Sponsons on some of the other boards, but haven't seem him around recently at all. Checked them out because I was not really familiar with their strategy, and some one thought I may be one or the other. Glad to say I am not, but now Dave Van is comparing me to Austin Powers, International Man of Mystery,and I am not him either. As far as you being a foreigner, no offense met! To me in USA, you are from another country, hense a foreigner. Now if I had said, that you are strange, I may or may not be right, for there definitly are some strange ones on the net. I am sure Dave is right though, there are no foreigners on the internet. and now just for Dave, .....Life,.... Live it! Yeah ....Baaby! TnT |
Only in America could getting accurate confirmation of intelligence before
starting a war be of greater importance than telling the truth about who you had oral sex with. Keenan, I think you meant ....Lesser importance .... in order to maintain the sarcasm. We may not have our facts straight, but at least you could keep your sarcasm straight!! TnT |
Bill, we have a good friend here in town who is a world famous doctor,
and Half of what he makes is paid out for mal-practice insurance. What is desparately needed is tort-reform. He is a specialist, and the procedures run over $50,000/ procedure. You can imagine the cost of the insurance. He could not work the way your dentist did if he wanted too. Almost 200 employees in his practice, and your right, a large accounting office to handle the medical claims insurance. Highly trained people who can handle all the different types of insurance issues. Like they say, there ain't no free lunch! But then think of all the jobs that are created. Somebody has to count all that money down at the insurance company, and the Lawyers are sure happy! all the way to their bank. He gets sued at least 10 times a year, by some malcontent gold digger! And another one for Dave, ..... Yeah, Baaby..!! Live.., Live it! TnT Thanks Dave, I like that, I'll use it some more! |
"No Spam" wrote in message news:mKQod.4765$K36.4509@trndny03...
the Democrats should be able to run yet another dud next time around and manage a win. That is my biggest fear, that they will not even try to find the right person for the job, just somebody that can win and that may very well be anyone. As a disclaimer I will state that I am a Republican, but I vote for every office based on merit not affiliation. I have never voted straight party and probably never will. I would love to have 2 worthy candidates to choose from next time but I will not hold my breath. There are a few very worthy democrats out there, I hope that one of them makes it to the front-runner this time. I'm sorry but Kerry was not a choice I could make. Of the Dems in the running this time I kind of liked Lieberman, but since he did not make it to the front, I am sorry to say I don't know enough about him to say for sure if I would have voted for him, but from what I do know, I believe I would have. The primary system just does not seem to be bringing the best forward and I don't know what might change that, but I'm hoping someone in the right places knows how and does it. I would love to have the problem of deciding between 2 candidates that I like next time, instead of figuring out who I think is the lesser evil Ken. Ken, not No Spam? See we're getting on speaking terms, and you were an R all the time. Like Eddy Murphy said, "You Devil, you" Threw that in for Dave! You are right, US politics is based on who can get nearest the center of the merry-go-round, and the others will get spun off. There is less and less difference between candidates from a true issue basis. But that does not mean the candidate wants to be known as a moderate, since that has come to mean you don't believe in anything. So there is this turf war going on for a 1% advantage at the center. So usually it breaks down to who combs his hair a certain way, and catch phrases, and Madison AVE. marketing. Why would the best come and want to be put forward, for a not-so-free ride in the washing machine, we call American poitics, where the wash cycle never ends, escept with a spin cycle, and then another wash! So we have to either choose the lesser of two evils, or the better known, and that means the incumbemt has an advantage, which means He is the lesser at stake choice for most voters! Its been fun, outa here for now, Life, Live it! Tinkerntom |
Bill here is an example of our tax dollars at work, solving pertinent
health care issues, http://9news.com/acm_news.aspx?OSGNA...7-c589c01ca7bf We here in Colorado are going to be so much healthier, at least from the rampant plague hitting the central high plains, Broken Toe Syndrome! TnT |
"Tinkerntom" wrote in message m... Only in America could getting accurate confirmation of intelligence before starting a war be of greater importance than telling the truth about who you had oral sex with. Keenan, I think you meant ....Lesser importance .... in order to maintain the sarcasm. We may not have our facts straight, but at least you could keep your sarcasm straight!! TnT Er. Thanks. I'm not being sarcastic. It's true. I can't think of any other country where the sexual habits of the president would be more important than the waging of war. |
Bill Tuthill provided useful information
[which I proceeded to snip] Bill, you didn't tell him "the rest of the story". Here are two more columns, for two of the primaary indicators of health care *quality*. Of the nations cited, the US ranks first in costs, and worst in infant mortality and longevity 1990 Healthcare Infant Deaths 2000 Life Expenditures per 1K Live Expectancy Nation Per Capita [1] Births [2] (years)[3] ================================================== ======= United States $2,566 6.75 77.1 Canada 1,770 4.88 79.4 France 1,532 4.37 78.8 Sweden 1,451 3.42 79.6 Germany 1,486 4.23 77.4 Switzerland 1,633 4.36 79.6 Italy 1,236 6.19 79.0 Norway 1,184 3.87 78.7 Japan 1,171 3.30 80.7 United Kingdom 972 5.28 77.7 [1] http://www.corporatism.netfirms.com/universal.htm [2] http://www.geographyiq.com/ranking/r..._Rate_aall.htm [2] http://geography.about.com/library/weekly/aa042000b.htm Check out Japan: for 45% of our cost they manage to have 50% of our infant mortality and a 5% greater life expectancy. -Richard, His Kanubic Travesty -- ================================================== ==================== Richard Hopley Winston-Salem, NC, USA rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters ================================================== ==================== |
|
On 24-Nov-2004, "Keenan Wellar" wrote:
I can't think of any other country where the sexual habits of the president would be more important than the waging of war. Well, that's the same country that enshrines guns in the Constitution but considers a woman's bare breast to be a threat to children. Mike |
"Michael Daly" wrote in message ... On 24-Nov-2004, "Keenan Wellar" wrote: I can't think of any other country where the sexual habits of the president would be more important than the waging of war. Well, that's the same country that enshrines guns in the Constitution but considers a woman's bare breast to be a threat to children. Mike Ooo. That's a good one. Also there's the opposition to stem cell research but support for the death penalty. |
Tinkerntom wrote:
Hi, my Dutch friend Wilko, and I mean that sincerely. Tinkerntom, to call someone my friend, I need to like someone a lot, feel that I want to respect them, and I require them to respect me. I don't take friendship lightly. I don't feel the need to make many friends, IMO quality means a lot more than quantity in that respect, although I tend to be in touch with a decent amount of people. I have made a couple of friends on RBP, some of which I couldn't differ more from in my views, but I respect them and I'd go paddle with them at the blink of an eye at every opportunity that presents itself. For you to come barging into this newsgroup like you did, attacking people that you felt disagreed with your political opinion, and then pull the "nice boater" out of the hat is not exactly helping me to take a friendly stance towards you. Maybe that will change over time, but for the time being I'm skeptical about being called your "friend". I took rivermans recommendation, and did some research on some of my apparent antagonist, and found that you are a well document foreigner. Looks like you found out that calling someone a foreigner on an international newsgroup (that admittedly sees a lot of U.S. posters) isn't exactly the most appropriate expression one could come up with... :-) snipped stuff about my website My only regret is that I waited until 50 to get started. You ask do I paddle, and the answer is yes. Do I paddle as much as I would like, NO! Will I ever be as proficient as you. Never! I am 55 now, and the old muscles don't work as good, and the bones don't heal so fast, but I do love paddling. IMO it doesn't matter at what age you started paddling as long as you did start. :-) Will I ever paddle the rivers you have paddled, probably not. As for the proficiency or skill level of what you paddle, who cares as long as you have fun? There are probably millions of paddlers better than me, but I have fun doing what I do, and I sure hope that they do too. A bit later I got my Overflow, and was all excited about getting on the river. Until an aquaintance that was kayaking caught a barbed wire strand that had been strung acoss the river to keep out kayakers. It basically took his head off! My wife said no way was I going to do anything that would end like that! Being in the unfortunate position where running creeks with barbed wire is one of the standard issues to deal with, I don't see any reason to stop paddling white water. I have become more aware when paddling in an area where flooded creeks tend to get out of the riverbed and flow through fenced meadows or in between trees. It's not something that i consciously think about any more, it's just that hair at the back of the neck feeling that keeps me alert. Turns out there is a long running battle here about river access and passage. The landowners say no kayaker, they ruin the river ecology and environment. I've paddled in Colorado, and I'm aware of the battle that takes place there. Reminds me of the situations in Britain, Belgium and Germany... :-( Does this qualify as paddling in your book, you tell me, maybe when you're 55! And personally I do prefer this kind of a post! I guess it does qualify, and I bet you would have gathered a lot more goodwill if you had first entered this forum with a post with a similar tone and subject... :-) Wilko -- Wilko van den Bergh wilko(a t)dse(d o t)nl Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe ---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.--- http://wilko.webzone.ru/ |
Tinkerntom wrote:
I'm glad to hear from you again, and I am glad that my last post brought you so much laughter. Actually, it was Dave's hilarious reply to your post that brought forth the laughter... I did do some googling on Weiser also, and found that usenet has a killfile on him, so it appears that he has gone other places, since he can't get thru here so easily. I doubt that's the case... It's not how things work. I think he should still be able to bother everyone here, but I'm sure he's found more fertile trolling grounds by now. Before, I came here to the RBP, I had run into Timmy's Sponsons on some of the other boards, but haven't seem him around recently at all. Checked them out because I was not really familiar with their strategy, and some one thought I may be one or the other. Glad to say I am not, but now Dave Van is comparing me to Austin Powers, International Man of Mystery,and I am not him either. "Dave Van"? big grin Do a little search and you'll find the rest of Dave's family name, and take it from me, it's not "Van". As far as you being a foreigner, no offense met! To me in USA, you are from another country, hense a foreigner. Now if I had said, that you are strange, I may or may not be right, for there definitly are some strange ones on the net. I am sure Dave is right though, there are no foreigners on the internet. And especially on an international forum like RBP... -- Wilko van den Bergh wilko(a t)dse(d o t)nl Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe ---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.--- http://wilko.webzone.ru/ |
I switched my screen name to no spam and broke up my email address to try to
stem the tide of garbage that posting to the groups was causing to hit my in-box. Ken "Tinkerntom" wrote in message m... "No Spam" wrote in message news:mKQod.4765$K36.4509@trndny03... the Democrats should be able to run yet another dud next time around and manage a win. That is my biggest fear, that they will not even try to find the right person for the job, just somebody that can win and that may very well be anyone. As a disclaimer I will state that I am a Republican, but I vote for every office based on merit not affiliation. I have never voted straight party and probably never will. I would love to have 2 worthy candidates to choose from next time but I will not hold my breath. There are a few very worthy democrats out there, I hope that one of them makes it to the front-runner this time. I'm sorry but Kerry was not a choice I could make. Of the Dems in the running this time I kind of liked Lieberman, but since he did not make it to the front, I am sorry to say I don't know enough about him to say for sure if I would have voted for him, but from what I do know, I believe I would have. The primary system just does not seem to be bringing the best forward and I don't know what might change that, but I'm hoping someone in the right places knows how and does it. I would love to have the problem of deciding between 2 candidates that I like next time, instead of figuring out who I think is the lesser evil Ken. Ken, not No Spam? See we're getting on speaking terms, and you were an R all the time. Like Eddy Murphy said, "You Devil, you" Threw that in for Dave! You are right, US politics is based on who can get nearest the center of the merry-go-round, and the others will get spun off. There is less and less difference between candidates from a true issue basis. But that does not mean the candidate wants to be known as a moderate, since that has come to mean you don't believe in anything. So there is this turf war going on for a 1% advantage at the center. So usually it breaks down to who combs his hair a certain way, and catch phrases, and Madison AVE. marketing. Why would the best come and want to be put forward, for a not-so-free ride in the washing machine, we call American poitics, where the wash cycle never ends, escept with a spin cycle, and then another wash! So we have to either choose the lesser of two evils, or the better known, and that means the incumbemt has an advantage, which means He is the lesser at stake choice for most voters! Its been fun, outa here for now, Life, Live it! Tinkerntom |
"Keenan Wellar" wrote in message news:BDCA9664.12630%UseAddressOnWebPageProvided@ho tmail.com... in article G09pd.15037$Gw.11523@trndny09, No Spam at wrote on 11/24/04 6:43 PM: Well that is where we will have to agree to disagree. I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing. I would really like to understand how George W Bush could be less evil than John Kerry. I mean, I watch George with one of his little speeches where he makes an obnoxious statement and then goes "heh heh heh" with that evil grin....it just gives me the willies! ==================== But a self-confessed war criminal doesn't phase you at all? Quite a selective set of knee-jerks you have there, eh? snippage... |
in article t, rick etter
at wrote on 11/24/04 9:17 PM: "Keenan Wellar" wrote in message news:BDCA9664.12630%UseAddressOnWebPageProvided@ho tmail.com... in article G09pd.15037$Gw.11523@trndny09, No Spam at wrote on 11/24/04 6:43 PM: Well that is where we will have to agree to disagree. I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing. I would really like to understand how George W Bush could be less evil than John Kerry. I mean, I watch George with one of his little speeches where he makes an obnoxious statement and then goes "heh heh heh" with that evil grin....it just gives me the willies! ==================== But a self-confessed war criminal doesn't phase you at all? Quite a selective set of knee-jerks you have there, eh? You mean because Kerry was a soldier in Vietnam? You really think that equates to making Presidential decisions? It's particularly ironic considering what Bush was doing while Kerry was in Vietnam. |
Wilko wrote in message ...
Tinkerntom wrote: Hi, my Dutch friend Wilko, and I mean that sincerely. Tinkerntom, to call someone my friend, I need to like someone a lot, feel that I want to respect them, and I require them to respect me. I don't take friendship lightly. I don't feel the need to make many friends, IMO quality means a lot more than quantity in that respect, although I tend to be in touch with a decent amount of people. I have made a couple of friends on RBP, some of which I couldn't differ more from in my views, but I respect them and I'd go paddle with them at the blink of an eye at every opportunity that presents itself. For you to come barging into this newsgroup like you did, attacking people that you felt disagreed with your political opinion, and then pull the "nice boater" out of the hat is not exactly helping me to take a friendly stance towards you. Maybe that will change over time, but for the time being I'm skeptical about being called your "friend". ................. Does this qualify as paddling in your book, you tell me, maybe when you're 55! And personally I do prefer this kind of a post! I guess it does qualify, and I bet you would have gathered a lot more goodwill if you had first entered this forum with a post with a similar tone and subject... :-) Wilko I apologize my friend, for jumping on a provocative thread, and blasting away without realizing that there were so many tender souls in the way. The fact that everyone was firing this way and that, I misunderstood, and took sort of personal myself. However, I had been lurking on this board, for a while watching the various paddling post, and usually finding them very informative and fun, and the posters most civil. And so was caught off guard by the Donnebruk going on, on this thread. I watched this thread even then, from the 3rd to the 13th, before just jumping in, and only then when it seemed that some of my CR compatriots were being ganged up on, and attacked by some with Automatic weapons, and RPGs. My only point when I jumped in was, that the Dems were going to have to adjust their game plan following the election, and that any concern and plan for the environment would be reflected in that new game plan. I found myself then being attacked, so excuse me for defending myself and fighting back. However I would point out, as you all now know me better, I love a good Donnebruk! I again apolgize though, for overall, I find you all however disparate, a noble band of brothers, and worthy of friendship. Do I know you well, no, but I am sure we will get to know each other better, given time, so I extend the hand of friendship. We all need as many friends as we can get. There needs to be fewer, lower walls between us. That is true Internationalism, we are all on that all to small life boat, called Earth. That is also true environmentalism, for if we don't know how to get along together, what difference will it make if we save all the trees and rivers and wildplaces, if I could only experience them alone. There are times when it is great to be alone, but there are other times to have all our friends around. Have a Happy Thanksgiving. Tinkerntom |
"Keenan Wellar" wrote in message news:BDCAAD29.1265C%UseAddressOnWebPageProvided@ho tmail.com... in article t, rick etter at wrote on 11/24/04 9:17 PM: "Keenan Wellar" wrote in message news:BDCA9664.12630%UseAddressOnWebPageProvided@ho tmail.com... in article G09pd.15037$Gw.11523@trndny09, No Spam at wrote on 11/24/04 6:43 PM: Well that is where we will have to agree to disagree. I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing. I would really like to understand how George W Bush could be less evil than John Kerry. I mean, I watch George with one of his little speeches where he makes an obnoxious statement and then goes "heh heh heh" with that evil grin....it just gives me the willies! ==================== But a self-confessed war criminal doesn't phase you at all? Quite a selective set of knee-jerks you have there, eh? You mean because Kerry was a soldier in Vietnam? ===================== No, stupid, because he admitted to participating in, and performing *war crimes*. Did you miss that little part of his sordid past, or were you just determined to not hear anything contrary to the 'good feelings' he gave you? You really think that equates to making Presidential decisions? It's particularly ironic considering what Bush was doing while Kerry was in Vietnam. ================== Pray tell, what would that have been, fool? |
"No Spam" wrote in message news:f39pd.1607$zm4.1438@trndny02...
I switched my screen name to no spam and broke up my email address to try to stem the tide of garbage that posting to the groups was causing to hit my in-box. Ken Ken, I know what you mean, a certain anonimity is nice on the web, and this board posting the email address, causes some problems. I suppose some email bot is out there now gathering my address, and preparing to bomb my bailbox. I have had this address though for a long time, and the damage has already been done, so I suppose I should just learn to filter out the junk. For those involved actively, and truthfully on this site, I would be willing to be more than Austin Powers, International man of Mystery, but on the other hand it has it's advantages. Oh yeah,....Baaby, Tnt |
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