E-Techs in the 50-hp range
 

"John from Illinois" wrote in message
ink.net...
K. Smith, I have similar questions: I realize I'm a relatively new to
posting in this forum, but could you enlighten me/us as to how you know:

1. "They are a "modified" ficht,"

2. "they have in no manner dealt with the root cause of the ficht failures
(lean mixtures on poorly atomised low pressure injection)"

and for that matter:

3. What is your definition of (or what do you consider) "low pressure
injection"?

4. Could you please tell us what the injection pressure of E-TEC are?

John


John from Illinois,

Your first questions to Karen should be what her qualifications are, how
many FICHT's she has worked on, why she gets information from her "blokes"
but does not believe the factory, why she thinks FICHTs (later than 2000)
have problems, and how she knows anything about warranty numbers..

Most of the readers ignore her ramblings and rantings and ravings. You will
probably get 4 or 5 pages of cut and paste stuff from the last five years
that do not make any sense.

Bill Grannis
service manager

E-Techs in the 50-hp range
 

Billgran wrote:

"John from Illinois" wrote in message
ink.net...
K. Smith, I have similar questions: I realize I'm a relatively new to
posting in this forum, but could you enlighten me/us as to how you know:

1. "They are a "modified" ficht,"

2. "they have in no manner dealt with the root cause of the ficht failures
(lean mixtures on poorly atomised low pressure injection)"

and for that matter:

3. What is your definition of (or what do you consider) "low pressure
injection"?

4. Could you please tell us what the injection pressure of E-TEC are?

John


John from Illinois,

Your first questions to Karen should be what her qualifications are, how
many FICHT's she has worked on, why she gets information from her "blokes"
but does not believe the factory, why she thinks FICHTs (later than 2000)
have problems, and how she knows anything about warranty numbers..

Most of the readers ignore her ramblings and rantings and ravings. You will
probably get 4 or 5 pages of cut and paste stuff from the last five years
that do not make any sense.

Bill Grannis
service manager

I think Karen made the most revealing comments about herself recently
when she actually responded to questions about the diesel outboard motor
she imagines she manufactures.

We've been hearing about this damned motor from her for years. The only
photo I've ever seen of what she claims to be her diesel outboard shows
what looks like a clapped-out old Homelite outboard top end welded to a
jerry-rigged lower unit that looks as if it were made in a seventh-grade
shop class.

According to Karen herself:

1. She has no factory to manufacture these outboards.

2. She has no product literature about these outboards

3. She has been "manufacturing them" for several years, but has no
production numbers to offer

4. She has no distributors buying carloads of these engines

5. She has no dealers buying from distributors or even direct from the
factory. In fact, she is clueless about modern methods of distribution
and sales.

6. She has no significant news or magazine clippings to share that
indicate the outboard is in manufacture

Further

7. No one at either of the two well-known commercial enterprises in
Australia who handled diesel outboards (one imports Yanmars and the
other modifies Yanmars for the military) has ever heard of Karen
Elizabeth Smith or her "Taipan" brand of diesel outboard

8. The name she chose for her imaginary line of diesel outboards,
"Taipan," is in use by a manufacturer of tiny diesel model airplane engines

9. She is unwilling to supply a list of names of those who have
purchased one of these diesel outboards

10. She has no way of offering warranty service on these diesel
outboards if she ever does make and sell any.


Draw your own conclusions.







--
Email sent to is never read.

E-Techs in the 50-hp range
 

RG wrote:
Anyone know how many Johnson E-Techs are out there and how have they faired
so far?

I'm a week or so away from purchasing a 50 hp and hate the idea of being
the
first with new technology.
Any thoughts or comments appreciated.
RichG



Don't under any circumstances buy one!! They're experimental at
best & just another EX OMC consumer ripoff at worst.

They are a "modified" ficht, they have in no manner dealt with the
root cause of the ficht failures (lean mixtures on poorly atomised low
pressure injection) & there are good reasons to think they too will fail
at a way too high rate. You could be one of the lucky ones but ...


Don't ever expect those that sell them to tell you anything but
rosy stories about them, gee Bill a Florida dealer was telling this NG
he'd never even seen a failed Ficht at the height of the Ficht debacle!!!

As for the claimed warranties there's the proof positive that
they're suspect.

just another view:-)

Karen,

Your view stinks.While I normally just lurk, I can't stand your attitude to
reputable posters.
Why don't you offer a solution rather than the long boring posts spruiking your
biased opinion? And why don't you and your blokes build a better motor? By
reading your posts you certainly pretend to have the knowledge!
I saw the diesel outboard contraption you have been spruiking for years.If
that's a better motor than the ficht or e tech why don't your blokes bring it
to market?

I am not an OMC fan. In fact I worked for the competition for a long time. BUT
I hope they succeed. Their new products are doing well. I wonder how many you
personally have seen or worked on?

I am certain OMC would love to have you on board to solve all of their
problems. You can become a famous for turning around a wonderful company with a
great heritage.Now that would be something to be proud of.
Instead you spend your days in the newsgroup insulting nice people with your
spruiking instead of offering a solution. Do us all a favor and put you and
your blokes enormous knowledge to do some good instead of being so negative.

Thank you, Happy Holidays.
BR

E-Techs in the 50-hp range
 

John,

I'm no fan of Karen and as a Johnson owner and DFI fan considering
purchasing a new motor I've challenged her here to provide the kind of
backup info Bill and others have demanded... to no avail. However,
what I have decided is that right or wrong there's a sizable number of
people who are leery J/E in general and of Ficht/E-Tec in particular.
More importantly a portion of those would never buy one, new or used.
If you never plan to sell your boat, and you trust Bombardier and/or
the new owners then by all means who gives a sh*t about anyone else's
opinion. But if you ever plan to sell, you will cutting out a portion
of potential buyers and probaly will get a lower price if there's a
J/E on the back, and even more if its Ficht/E-tec.

Sorry Bill - I just call'em as I see'em, and selling a boat is a pain
enough w/o the added burden of a big 'ol question mark hangin on the
transom.

Even though I could probably save a few grand going w/ an E-tec (a
year ago my local J/E dealer qoted me a "deal" at $14,700 for a 225
that now I see on sale for $9950 plus gimmicks), I've decided to
re-power w/a Yamaha HPDI instead... unless I change my mind and decide
to squeak another year out of my carbuerated Johnson smoke machine...

FishFan

E-Techs in the 50-hp range
 

"Boatriggr" wrote in message
...

Your view stinks.While I normally just lurk, I can't stand your
attitude to
reputable posters.
Why don't you offer a solution rather than the long boring posts
spruiking your
biased opinion? And why don't you and your blokes build a better
motor? By
reading your posts you certainly pretend to have the knowledge!
I saw the diesel outboard contraption you have been spruiking for
years.If
that's a better motor than the ficht or e tech why don't your blokes
bring it
to market?

I am not an OMC fan. In fact I worked for the competition for a long
time. BUT
I hope they succeed. Their new products are doing well. I wonder how
many you
personally have seen or worked on?

I am certain OMC would love to have you on board to solve all of their
problems. You can become a famous for turning around a wonderful
company with a
great heritage.Now that would be something to be proud of.
Instead you spend your days in the newsgroup insulting nice people
with your
spruiking instead of offering a solution. Do us all a favor and put
you and
your blokes enormous knowledge to do some good instead of being so
negative.

Thank you, Happy Holidays.
BR

As a man of science and a neutral mercury owner, let me try to summarize
the background.

OMC was a large and well respected manufacturer of Outboard motors
(don't laugh clams) with stockholders and many long time employees.
Long about the time the EPA put emission limits on outboards they came
out with a line of outboards based on FICHT technology which they
purchased, along with the company, from its german inventors. FICHT was
based on a solenoid forcing gas through an orifice directly into the
cylinder.

At about the same time, 1998 model year, OMC had quality and reliability
problems, especially with the 150 hp Ficht motors. These and other
problems culminated with OMC filing bankruptcy and liquidating, with the
assets being purchased by Bombardier. During this difficult time OMC
and the boating press and allegedly some of the dealer related folks on
rec.boats were less than forthcoming about the scope and cause of the
problems. Several rounds of fixes were rolled out to the field, and
modifications were made to following years' models.

Now Bombardier is selling the line of motors and once again the public
is being told that the problems are in the past and the motors are
reliable. And there is this new or modified technology that is even
better. The press is writing glowing articles.

I am unaware of any comprehensive objective data available to the public
on the reliability and quality of various models and vintages of OMC
products. This is also true for Mercury, Yamaha, and all other brands.

Karen has a personal distaste for the dealer system, and in addition
believes that there is a fundamental problem which prevents an emissions
clean two stroke from being reliable. She says this is due to the high
heat produced by lean operation leading to detonation on throttle up.

The OMC employees, customers, and stockholders paid a high price for the
mismanagement and problems of the past. One cannot help feeling sorrow
for their experience. Who has the story right shall be revealed in the
next few years.

As an individual with no data except a past mea culpa from OMC
management, it is impossible for me to know what the truth is. I guess
you pays your money and you takes your chances.

del cecchi

E-Techs in the 50-hp range
 

My only question is how, how, how could you but and OMC product over a
Yamaha or Mercury product in this environment?
Maybe in 2 years you'll want to sell your current boat...

E-Techs in the 50-hp range
 

"Jim and Becky" wrote in message et...
My only question is how, how, how could you but and OMC product over a
Yamaha or Mercury product in this environment?
Maybe in 2 years you'll want to sell your current boat...

Very easily. First of all, Bombadier has been in the business a VERY
long time, with a long list of highly regarded equipment. Aircraft,
for one.
Also, there are millions of very nice running, no problems kind of
OMC's out there. I have one that is a 1974, 135 hp, and runs
fantastic, as it always has. How long has Yamaha been in the outboard
motor game? Answer, not NEAR as long as OMC. Mercury? There a decent
motor, just like OMC is. Yamaha? good motors, again, but very painful
to buy parts for.

E-Techs in the 50-hp range
 

Just MHO here, but in terms of resale value, buying and selling a boat isn't
any different than buying or selling a car. As soon as you pull off the
dealers lot, the equipments value begins to plummet. As technologies
advance in leaps and bounds it seems units only a few years old are already
obsolete. The used boat market appears to be flooded with "over-priced"
boats and motors. The only way to make them move is to drop the price.

Now regarding "OMC products", while there certainly are millions of units
still out there, there is no longer an OMC - they're history. The outboard
assets of OMC were puchased out of bankruptcy by Bombardier, who recently,
due to the slumping airline industry sold off the entire (and very
profitable) Recreational Products division, which not only includes Evinrude
& Johnson, but also Sea-Doo, Ski-Doo, Bombardier ATV and Sport Boats. (just
a slight clarification del). BTW, del brought up some excellent points, we
will all see where it goes in the next few years.

I am still compelled though to point out, it doesn't matter which product
brand you purchase, they all have their issues. For example on the fishing
tournament circuits here in the U.S., it seems that Mercury can't keep
Opti-Max's from swallowing reed valves, Evinrude has a recall for a fuel
rail and Yamaha appears to have an oiling issue with their HPDI causing
cylinder failures. The 4-strokes also have their issues with corossion and
stuck throttle bodies, which also required a safety recall. I saw a recall
or a bulletin for Honda's last year, something about a problem with the
engine block as I recall.

The Evinrudes have a 3-year non-declining warranty, the Yamaha's a 3-year
pro-rated warranty and I'm not sure what Mercury is offering at the moment
and I believe Suzuki's warranty is also pro-rated.

As with anything these days, it's always buyer-beware.

-John


"Jim and Becky" wrote in message
t...
My only question is how, how, how could you but and OMC product over a
Yamaha or Mercury product in this environment?
Maybe in 2 years you'll want to sell your current boat...

E-Techs in the 50-hp range
 

John from Illinois wrote:


I am still compelled though to point out, it doesn't matter which product
brand you purchase, they all have their issues. For example on the fishing
tournament circuits here in the U.S., it seems that Mercury can't keep
Opti-Max's from swallowing reed valves, Evinrude has a recall for a fuel
rail and Yamaha appears to have an oiling issue with their HPDI causing
cylinder failures. The 4-strokes also have their issues with corossion and
stuck throttle bodies, which also required a safety recall. I saw a recall
or a bulletin for Honda's last year, something about a problem with the
engine block as I recall.

My 2003 Yamaha F225 was just winterized, and I happened to see the
plastic bag full of little plastic parts that were part of the sticking
throttle recall. About 50 cents worth of parts, maybe.

While the mechanic had the hood off, I looked very carefully for signs
of any sort of corrosion that might be visible. Nothing. The hood does
fit tightly. I've had no issues with this engine in its first season.

I agree with your point that virtually *every* manufacturers' line of
new, high-tech engines, whether two cycle or four cycle, has had
birthing issues. We have lots of very active fishermen where we are, and
I see manynew Yamahas, Mercs, Evinrudes, fewer Hondas and some Suzukis
in the higher horsepower ranges. Mercs and Yamahas lead in sales.
Honda's problem is that it doesn't seem to have many packaging
relationships with boat manufacturers, so its market penetration up here
on Chesapeake Bay seems small. The few large (225 hp) Hondas I have seen
around seem to operate just fine.


--
Email sent to is never read.

E-Techs in the 50-hp range
 

As a man of science and a neutral mercury owner, let me try to summarize
the background.


(snip)

Del, that was nicely stated.

My biggest concern is that Bombardier has the marine engine portion of their
business on the selling block. This is the same business they bought just
three years ago out of OMC's bankruptcy, and the same business they advertised
as one they are investing in, in order to reassure potential customers.
Remember the Bombardier ads where the newly acquired motors all had to "pass an
audition."

So, here we are, just a short while later, and the company has a line of new
DFI motors. They are advertising that the the injector technology is different
and improved, and the metalurgy is different and improved, to withstand higher
temps. Frankly, that advertising claim gives credence to some of Karen's
long-argued points about Ficht. While Bomb and it's interested parties have
been telling us Ficht has been fine for a couple of years now, Bomb saw fit to
reengineer the engines in ways that specifically support Karen's past arguments
about inherent design flaws.

Hmmm. Maybe we need to give Karen some credit for sticking to her guns despite
enormous abuse by many here.

Also, when a company is selling off a division, it's not unusual for the
employees in that division to spend time worrying about what their future
holds, instead of thinking about quality control, engineering, production, etc.
That behavior, while natural and understandable, doesn't usually result in the
best products on the market.

E-Tec may turn out to be a good product. But, it's very hard to look at the
history and the current circumstances and conclude that it's as safe a purchase
as competing brands.


-- Rich Stern
www.nitroowners.com - The Nitro and Tracker Owners Web Site
www.mypontoon.com - The Pontoon Boat Web Site
www.fishingreportdatabase.com - The Fishing Report Database
www.mysporttrac.com - The Sport Trac Web Site