I've got a 50 ton master's license for the Great Lakes and would like to
try to make a few bucks to offset the cost of a new boat by giving boat
rides to people on the Great Lakes. The rides could be last from an hour
to a long weekend. One source is obviously those who are doing it already.

I'm trying to find other sources in the way of publications, IRS data,
internet forums or any general advice about the idea. I'm wondering what
to charge, how to deal with the insurance, USCG unknowns, S-corp issues
and other tactics to set up a part-time business like this.

I still have to have a US laid keel or get the waiver, right? And it has
to be USCG documented.

Capt. Jeff

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:54:34 -0500, Tamaroak
wrote:

I've got a 50 ton master's license for the Great Lakes and would like to
try to make a few bucks to offset the cost of a new boat by giving boat
rides to people on the Great Lakes. The rides could be last from an hour
to a long weekend. One source is obviously those who are doing it already.

Yep - and you might want to look up a Captain's Association or similar
for the Great Lakes. Most Captains are very helpful. I know when I
got mine and was thinking of the same thing you are, several charter
guys in the area were more than helpful. Some weren't, but most were.
In CT we have a Charter Organization that tries very hard to share the
wealth.

I'm trying to find other sources in the way of publications, IRS data,
internet forums or any general advice about the idea. I'm wondering what
to charge, how to deal with the insurance, USCG unknowns, S-corp issues
and other tactics to set up a part-time business like this.

The business side is this. If you run for profit, you should put
yourself into an LLC. If this is not a run for profit, but as a break
even operation, be aware that the IRS wants to see a profit after
three years in any business situation - otherwise it's called a hobby
business and you can't take a loss - only up to the amount made, no
overages.

Insurance is somewhat problematic. I know here in CT, I've heard
everything from a minimum of $500K to $1,000,000 per passenger. I've
also heard it's hard to get. I can't speak to that because I didn't
persue it much further.

As to the USCG, you have a couple of options. With a 50 ton, you can
run OUPV which basically means that you can run with up to 6
passengers on an uninspected vessel. There is also a way, under the
OUPV rules, to actually take up to 12 passengers, but that's a loop
hole deal. If you really want to know the details, email me off list
and I'll clue you in.

Otherwise, if you want to run under your full license, you have to
have an inspected vessel approved for passenger service as detailed in
the Federal Regulations. All the life preservers, rafts, EPIRBs,
fire, sanitation, etc....

As to running a part-time business, just take a look in any of your
local boating magazines and look through the charter lists in your
marina for instance. I think you'll get the idea pretty quick - you
aren't gonna get rich at this unless you are very good or very lucky.

I still have to have a US laid keel or get the waiver, right? And it has
to be USCG documented.

Not necessarily. If you run OUPV, none is required beyond the basic
safety stuff required for SOLAS. And I don't believe you have to have
a US keel to do that either. I'm not sure about the other stuff.

In any case, good luck. I've thought about it from time-to-time, but
it's not really worth it from my perspective.

All the best,

Tom
--------------

"What the hell's the deal with this newsgroup...
is there a computer terminal in the day room of
some looney bin somewhere?"

Bilgeman - circa 2004

You may need to be documented to get the waiver, but I'm not sure you need to be doc'd
to do 6-pak style charters.


"Tamaroak" wrote in message
...
I've got a 50 ton master's license for the Great Lakes and would like to try to make
a few bucks to offset the cost of a new boat by giving boat rides to people on the
Great Lakes. The rides could be last from an hour to a long weekend. One source is
obviously those who are doing it already.

I'm trying to find other sources in the way of publications, IRS data, internet
forums or any general advice about the idea. I'm wondering what to charge, how to
deal with the insurance, USCG unknowns, S-corp issues and other tactics to set up a
part-time business like this.

I still have to have a US laid keel or get the waiver, right? And it has to be USCG
documented.

Capt. Jeff

You may need to be documented to get the waiver, but I'm not sure you need to
be doc'd
to do 6-pak style charters.

You can bareboat a foreign hull, but a crewed charter falls under the Jones
act.

Interesting note, as I remeber the Jones act it only prohibits using a foreign
hull to transit between two US ports. I'm not a maritime attorney, (and it
wouldn't hurt to consult one), but I think you can get away with a foreign hull
by departing and returning to the same port, with no intervening stops.

A sight-seeing run along the waterfront would seem to be OK.

Getting around the Jones act is no big deal. The general procedure is to make a
"campaign contribution" to a member of congress from your district, and request
that an exemption be read into the Congressional Record from the floor of
Congress. I guess that a couple of times a year they tag all those Jones act
exemptions in the record onto some other bill that's being passed, or maybe it
can handled as an administrative detail without even coming to vote. After you
pay off the congressperson and the request goes into the Confressional Record,
I'm a bit confused about the mechanics of the actual exemption.

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:54:34 -0500, Tamaroak
wrote:


I've got a 50 ton master's license for the Great Lakes and would like to
try to make a few bucks to offset the cost of a new boat by giving boat
rides to people on the Great Lakes. The rides could be last from an hour
to a long weekend. One source is obviously those who are doing it already.


Yep - and you might want to look up a Captain's Association or similar
for the Great Lakes. Most Captains are very helpful. I know when I
got mine and was thinking of the same thing you are, several charter
guys in the area were more than helpful. Some weren't, but most were.
In CT we have a Charter Organization that tries very hard to share the
wealth.


I'm trying to find other sources in the way of publications, IRS data,
internet forums or any general advice about the idea. I'm wondering what
to charge, how to deal with the insurance, USCG unknowns, S-corp issues
and other tactics to set up a part-time business like this.


The business side is this. If you run for profit, you should put
yourself into an LLC. If this is not a run for profit, but as a break
even operation, be aware that the IRS wants to see a profit after
three years in any business situation - otherwise it's called a hobby
business and you can't take a loss - only up to the amount made, no
overages.

Insurance is somewhat problematic. I know here in CT, I've heard
everything from a minimum of $500K to $1,000,000 per passenger. I've
also heard it's hard to get. I can't speak to that because I didn't
persue it much further.

As to the USCG, you have a couple of options. With a 50 ton, you can
run OUPV which basically means that you can run with up to 6
passengers on an uninspected vessel. There is also a way, under the
OUPV rules, to actually take up to 12 passengers, but that's a loop
hole deal. If you really want to know the details, email me off list
and I'll clue you in.

Otherwise, if you want to run under your full license, you have to
have an inspected vessel approved for passenger service as detailed in
the Federal Regulations. All the life preservers, rafts, EPIRBs,
fire, sanitation, etc....

As to running a part-time business, just take a look in any of your
local boating magazines and look through the charter lists in your
marina for instance. I think you'll get the idea pretty quick - you
aren't gonna get rich at this unless you are very good or very lucky.


I still have to have a US laid keel or get the waiver, right? And it has
to be USCG documented.


Not necessarily. If you run OUPV, none is required beyond the basic
safety stuff required for SOLAS. And I don't believe you have to have
a US keel to do that either. I'm not sure about the other stuff.

In any case, good luck. I've thought about it from time-to-time, but
it's not really worth it from my perspective.

All the best,

Tom
--------------

"What the hell's the deal with this newsgroup...
is there a computer terminal in the day room of
some looney bin somewhere?"

Bilgeman - circa 2004

When I checked into this the insurance was quite expensive and was
technically based on the number of charters you did. I don't know how
they can verify it, but that's what I was told. The insurance on my 48
footer almost tripled for the short time that I carried it and it was
based on only doing a half dozen charters.

Eisboch

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 19:07:35 -0400, Eisboch
wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

When I checked into this the insurance was quite expensive and was
technically based on the number of charters you did. I don't know how
they can verify it, but that's what I was told. The insurance on my 48
footer almost tripled for the short time that I carried it and it was
based on only doing a half dozen charters.

I have a 25 ton Near Coastal (had it for years actually, just never
used it) and was seriously thinking about running a charter operation
with my Contender. Once I wrapped my brain around all the LLC stuff,
I decided to look into the insurance.

If I chose to run OUPV the insurance per passenger would have been
considerably cheaper than if I ran as an Inspected Vessel. It was
also interesting that I would have to run with one less passenger than
I would have with the OUPV due to the restrictions of the boat. It
was weird.

Then there was the question of actually running a viable business
never mind a break even business. In the last issue of "On The Water"
there were seventy one different Captains and boats for hire. And
that was just in my immediate area.

It would have been fun, but I also didn't want to lose more money than
I already do running two boats for my own amusement. :)

Take care.

Tom

"The beatings will stop when morale improves."
E. Teach, 1717

I think the Jones Act deals with cartage, whereas the Passenger Services
Act of 1886 deals with passengers and says pretty much the same stuff.

There is a waiver that was supposed to expire just about two years ago,
that supposedly was extended. It costs $300 to get, I was told.

Capt. Jeff

And a more careful reading of the Act makes me think it doesn't apply in
the Great Lakes as long as I don't let anyone disembark in Canada.

Capt. jeff

Tamaroak wrote in message ...
And a more careful reading of the Act makes me think it doesn't apply in
the Great Lakes as long as I don't let anyone disembark in Canada.

Capt. jeff


Just a note r.e. the jones act stuff....An uninspected vessel can't
carry more than 6 paying passengers. This we know...so to carry more
than 6, the vessel needs to be inspected (and you need the appropriate
ticket to do it). However, to be inspected doesn't just mean having a
US laid keel, but also conforming to some very strict guidelines for
construction and safety. The regulations for a working inspected
vessel are quite lengthy and detailed compared to those of an
uninspected one. So unless your boat was constructed with the
expectation of being a commercially operating, inspected vessel in the
first place, the chances are slim it would ever be able to do anything
more than 6-pack work, even if it is US built. I've never heard of a
waiver to get around those guidelines, and I'd be surprised if there
was one. But as someone else said, I'm not a maritime lawyer either.

Rob Welling.

"Tamaroak" wrote in message
...
I've got a 50 ton master's license for the Great Lakes and would like to
try to make a few bucks to offset the cost of a new boat by giving boat
rides to people on the Great Lakes.

Once you become self-employed, you'll have a hard time voting Democratic.
Here's an early *welcome* to the Republican party.