Did I say something to offend you? If so, I must have missed it.

I do know about Boating Mags and all magazines because I worked for a
marketing company and we used to "buy" these PR pieces all the time.



You presumed to declare a motivation behind the article. You were wrong.

You presumed to declare that there is an advertising deal in the works between
my publisher and the battery company. You are wrong again. There is no
quid-pro-quo as you insisted.(The company that retails this product in town
*does* advertise in my publisher's magazine, and all other regional
publications, and has done so every month for about 20 years. Odds are good
that they will advertise for another 20 whether we ever mentioned their name
outside of their ad space, or not. Our revenue from that account will not
increase, or decrease ten cents as a result of the interview).

When you run a specialty publication addressing a narrow field of interest,
there will certainly be many instances when an article features a company that
is also an advertiser. I suppose to be really uptight about it, we could adopt
a policy that read,
"We will refuse to accept any advertising from your firm for one issue prior
and two issues beyond the month any editorial regarding your company appears."
Not likely to happen. We try not to be whores, but by the same token there's no
point in being a self righteous martyr.

On 16 Oct 2004 01:51:52 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

When you run a specialty publication addressing a narrow field of interest,
there will certainly be many instances when an article features a company that
is also an advertiser. I suppose to be really uptight about it, we could adopt
a policy that read,

"We will refuse to accept any advertising from your firm for one issue prior
and two issues beyond the month any editorial regarding your company appears."
Not likely to happen. We try not to be whores, but by the same token there's no
point in being a self righteous martyr.

Interesting you should mention that. When I was slowly transitioning
out of the world of corporate piracy and back stabbing, I worked for a
year with the ARRL as a Technical Editor for their main magazine "QST"
and was the de-facto editor of "QEX" which was their heavy theory and
experimental magazine.

I asked that question one time at an Editorial meeting - it was when
several manufacturers were introducing DSP into their products and we
were testing the products - how do we avoid conflicts with brand
loyalty (I was a Yaesu guy for example), etc., personal preference and
still continue to accept ads from the companies.

It was interesting how the ARRL did it. First they would buy the
radios at various retail establishments at retail. Right off the
shelf. Then, they would farm the radios out to individuals by random
lot - some of them went overseas believe it or not. There were two
random reviewers and they were given a week to play with the gear,
write a review and return the radio to HQ. It was then given to a
staffer by random lot (you had to be a minimum Advanced to get one),
given a week and write a review. Then it came to the Technical
Editors who would read the reviews, play with the rigs to see what was
what, then the review was written.

What happened was very enlightening. Once you eliminated all the "my
Kenwood does this well, but...." and "Yaesu sucks because" and "Icom
does this better than..." you got a fairly accurate view of how the
radio preformed, what the faults were and a general impression of the
quality level - a very good picture of what the equipment did, looked
and operated like.

It was very fair.

My problem with boating and fishing mags is that they depend on the
ads for a living, thus saying something like "The Ranger T-top is
undersized and didn't quite fit the center console properly causing
vibrations and their unwanted side effects" is translated into "The
Ranger T-top, while somewhat under engineered, looks good on the boat
and has four rod holders". :)

All the best,

Tom
--------------

"What the hell's the deal with this newsgroup...
is there a computer terminal in the day room of
some looney bin somewhere?"

Bilgeman - circa 2004

Tom,
What it would really read much more positive than that. Something along the
lines of:
The beautiful lines of the Ranger T-Top will protect you from UV rays while
you troll for those monster fish using the built in rod holders. The T-Top
utilizes a unique process that allows Ranger to keep the weight as low as
possible, an important consideration for anyone who tows his boat using the
family car.



"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
The Ranger T-top is
undersized and didn't quite fit the center console properly causing
vibrations and their unwanted side effects" is translated into "The
Ranger T-top, while somewhat under engineered, looks good on the boat
and has four rod holders". :)

All the best,

Tom
--------------

"What the hell's the deal with this newsgroup...
is there a computer terminal in the day room of
some looney bin somewhere?"

Bilgeman - circa 2004

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 12:58:52 GMT, "Jon Smithe"
wrote:

Tom,
What it would really read much more positive than that. Something along the
lines of:
The beautiful lines of the Ranger T-Top will protect you from UV rays while
you troll for those monster fish using the built in rod holders. The T-Top
utilizes a unique process that allows Ranger to keep the weight as low as
possible, an important consideration for anyone who tows his boat using the
family car.

In my experience, that would be considered an outright lie, but other
would be considered "truth".

Trust me on this. :)

Take care.

Tom

"The beatings will stop when morale improves."
E. Teach, 1717

SWS,

It sounds like you know what you are talking about, but what did I say was a
lie? It was all fluff with out really saying anything. When someone cuts
the gauge on metal, they put in "strengthen" ridges or corrugation type
folds to make up for lack of strength, hence "the unique process".

If someone is towing a boat with the family car, weight is important
consideration.

I don't think I lied, I just emphasized the positive and ignored the fact
that the T-Top will not be able to take a lot of excess stress, such as one
might find in strong winds or a careless boater grabbing the T-Top.





"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 12:58:52 GMT, "Jon Smithe"
wrote:

Tom,
What it would really read much more positive than that. Something along
the
lines of:
The beautiful lines of the Ranger T-Top will protect you from UV rays
while
you troll for those monster fish using the built in rod holders. The
T-Top
utilizes a unique process that allows Ranger to keep the weight as low as
possible, an important consideration for anyone who tows his boat using
the
family car.

In my experience, that would be considered an outright lie, but other
would be considered "truth".

Trust me on this. :)

Take care.

Tom

"The beatings will stop when morale improves."
E. Teach, 1717

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 13:56:23 GMT, "Jon Smithe"
wrote:

SWS,

It sounds like you know what you are talking about, but what did I say was a
lie? It was all fluff with out really saying anything. When someone cuts
the gauge on metal, they put in "strengthen" ridges or corrugation type
folds to make up for lack of strength, hence "the unique process".

If someone is towing a boat with the family car, weight is important
consideration.

I don't think I lied, I just emphasized the positive and ignored the fact
that the T-Top will not be able to take a lot of excess stress, such as one
might find in strong winds or a careless boater grabbing the T-Top.

Upon reflection, I take that back.

Good point.

Take care.

Tom

"The beatings will stop when morale improves."
E. Teach, 1717

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 10:49:07 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

My problem with boating and fishing mags is that they depend on the
ads for a living

=============================================

Its worse than that. They also depend on the builders and dealers for
test boats since they can't afford to buy them at retail. If they
start making unfavorable comments, the supply of test boats will dry
up very quickly.

The magazines, the boat builders and suppliers, and most of the general
public know of the symbiotic relationship, I am surprised that no one told
Gould about it.

..
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 10:49:07 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

My problem with boating and fishing mags is that they depend on the
ads for a living

=============================================

Its worse than that. They also depend on the builders and dealers for
test boats since they can't afford to buy them at retail. If they
start making unfavorable comments, the supply of test boats will dry
up very quickly.

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 15:20:00 GMT, "Jon Smithe"
wrote:

I am surprised that no one told
Gould about it.

=================================

Chuck is a smart guy and he knows very well. His professional
connections however, require him to go cruising in "de nile" now and
then.

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 10:41:45 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 10:49:07 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

My problem with boating and fishing mags is that they depend on the
ads for a living

=============================================

Its worse than that. They also depend on the builders and dealers for
test boats since they can't afford to buy them at retail. If they
start making unfavorable comments, the supply of test boats will dry
up very quickly.

Ok - my .02¢.

Because of time ahead and just-in-time design and production cycles,
it is almost impossible to react to consumer or critical evaluations
such that a better boat can be built incorporating those reviews.
What they can do is incorporate those design ideas forward in time,
but they cannot correct design flaws backward. And that's the major
problem.

I believe there is room for honest evaluation - you just have to work
at it, make arrangements with the manufacturers and force some issues.
Then maybe we'd get better boats for less money.

If I were still in the small boat market, I would have a boat custom
built. And I know where I would build it - Blue Fin Yachts over in
Bristol, RI. That way I could incorporate the ideas (like mounting
the fire extinguisher side ways instead of up and down) and other
things that make a good boat.

If pressed, I'd steal all the good ideas from Polar boats and have one
built by Blue Fin. :)

Later,

Tom