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Another reason to use union crews...
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
... This week, we had about 1000 square feet of the lower level of our house tiled in ceramic tile. This is the area that comprises my home office. Tje job is first class and the price...$1000 LESS than two non-union contractors bid for the job. You need to hire a union typist, Harry. ROFL!!!!!!!! Is this an audience, or an oil painting? |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... This week, we had about 1000 square feet of the lower level of our house tiled in ceramic tile. This is the area that comprises my home office. *Lower level* of your house? So you had your basement tiled. Why not just say so. And it sounds like your first quote was off base. I would guess even a non union company would have beat it. What is so special about laying tile that you need to be union? The way you rave about the details of the work makes it obvious you have never put down tile before. Hell, my sister tiled her own counter top and back splash without a lick of problem. No need for union workers to do it for her. |
"JimH" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... This week, we had about 1000 square feet of the lower level of our house tiled in ceramic tile. This is the area that comprises my home office. *Lower level* of your house? So you had your basement tiled. Why not just say so. And it sounds like your first quote was off base. I would guess even a non union company would have beat it. What is so special about laying tile that you need to be union? Just my guess: How about the presence of formal training (apprenticeship) arrangements? That means something. Otherwise, you could end up hiring someone who, after discovering they were pretty good at it after doing their own home, decided to open a business. If you measure quality on a one to ten scale, you might be happy with a tile job that was a seven if you'd never seen a ten. Sounds like Harry got a ten. I got a ten when a union guy sheetrocked the ceiling of my dining room, working on top of plaster, rather than removing it, which would've risked the release of lead dust. They guy spent the first four hours with some sort of wacky looking arrangement of little bubble levels, wires and huge straightedges, applying various thicknesses of aluminum shims that he made at home. When it was done, it looked like the room had been flipped upside down and had the ceiling poured on, allowing gravity to level it like the surface of a quiet pond. Sure - this kind of work isn't necessarily exclusive to union workers. But, when I questioned the shimming & leveling tricks, he said he'd learned it during 3 years of training with some union guys. If YOU wanted to do that kind of work, where would you go to learn it? Would you waste time buying magazines and browsing the web, hoping to find the information, or take the most direct route to the source of training, which is probably other workers? |
"JimH" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... This week, we had about 1000 square feet of the lower level of our house tiled in ceramic tile. This is the area that comprises my home office. *Lower level* of your house? So you had your basement tiled. Why not just say so. And it sounds like your first quote was off base. I would guess even a non union company would have beat it. Why would you assume that krause is telling the truth about this when he couldn't about his wife's degrees or his "lobsta boat" What is so special about laying tile that you need to be union? The way you rave about the details of the work makes it obvious you have never put down tile before. Hell, my sister tiled her own counter top and back splash without a lick of problem. No need for union workers to do it for her. |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Doug Kanter wrote: "JimH" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... This week, we had about 1000 square feet of the lower level of our house tiled in ceramic tile. This is the area that comprises my home office. *Lower level* of your house? So you had your basement tiled. Why not just say so. And it sounds like your first quote was off base. I would guess even a non union company would have beat it. What is so special about laying tile that you need to be union? Just my guess: How about the presence of formal training (apprenticeship) arrangements? That means something. Otherwise, you could end up hiring someone who, after discovering they were pretty good at it after doing their own home, decided to open a business. Union tilesetters undergo a formal, three-year apprenticeship program. A lot of that training has to do with the safe handling of various chemicals that are rarely, if ever, used during tilesetting or maintenance in single-family homes. Pure bull****. Very few union tilesetters work single-family residential, although I have foudn the crews I've hired in my minor-league homebuilding ventures to be more skilled and efficient than the non-union crews. It is kind of humorous that Hertvik is commenting here...if you saw a photo of his house, you'd conclude that no one with a sense of design, taste or construction skill was involved...but, hey, taste is subjective,eh? We have a 4,000 square foot house constructed in 1992. If you have a picture to post please do. I have no idea how you would have obtained it, but as you have been stalking me recently I guess nothing is beyond belief with you. Tile setting is not difficult. No need for a 3 year apprenticeship program unless one is mentally challenged. |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
... Union tilesetters undergo a formal, three-year apprenticeship program. A lot of that training has to do with the safe handling of various chemicals that are rarely, if ever, used during tilesetting or maintenance in single-family homes. This is unfortunate because I *suspect* (might be wrong, though), that a builder's expectations for speed of construction and cost control might force *any* worker to take shortcuts. I suppose it depends on the situation. I lot of my son's friends live in new developments, and some of the parents are doing an inordinate amount of what I consider "basic structural" work - things a new house shouldn't need. Example: In one house, the kitchen floor's underlayment wasn't fastened correctly. All along 3 seams, it began lifting and popping the wooden tiles. He's redoing the whole thing two years after moving in. When he removed the tiles, he found water damage to the underlayment. It was 15 feet from the sink area, so obviously, it happened during construction. |
"JimH" wrote in message
... "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Doug Kanter wrote: "JimH" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... This week, we had about 1000 square feet of the lower level of our house tiled in ceramic tile. This is the area that comprises my home office. *Lower level* of your house? So you had your basement tiled. Why not just say so. And it sounds like your first quote was off base. I would guess even a non union company would have beat it. What is so special about laying tile that you need to be union? Just my guess: How about the presence of formal training (apprenticeship) arrangements? That means something. Otherwise, you could end up hiring someone who, after discovering they were pretty good at it after doing their own home, decided to open a business. Union tilesetters undergo a formal, three-year apprenticeship program. A lot of that training has to do with the safe handling of various chemicals that are rarely, if ever, used during tilesetting or maintenance in single-family homes. Pure bull****. Why do you say it's bull****? Have you gone through the process, or know anyone who has? Very few union tilesetters work single-family residential, although I have foudn the crews I've hired in my minor-league homebuilding ventures to be more skilled and efficient than the non-union crews. It is kind of humorous that Hertvik is commenting here...if you saw a photo of his house, you'd conclude that no one with a sense of design, taste or construction skill was involved...but, hey, taste is subjective,eh? We have a 4,000 square foot house constructed in 1992. What's the size go to do with the aesthetic quality of the house? ("aesthetic" means "how it looks"). |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
... and on houses with "Starting from $550,000..." Residential construction is the bottom of the barrel. We've got plenty of developments like that here. One of them was involved in an interesting scandal a few years back. It involved the builder, the bank he used to offer financing to the buyers, and the bank's assessor. They arranged for the homes to be valued at $500-700K in an area where similar homes were $200 or so. Somehow, they managed to convince not only the buyers, but the town, that it would be the next up-and-coming neighborhood. It was similar to the tulip madness in Europe in the 16th century. The best part is that so many of these homes were built that it affected the town's property tax planning. When the bottom fell out....you know the rest. Besides THAT mess, the owners are stuck with homes that they'll NEVER get their money out of when they retire and move to NOYB-land. And, the houses are built like crap. In one of my son's friends' homes, trim sections of sheetrock were glued to the beams. No screws at all. The mom said she was cooking one day and a 1x4 foot strip fell into the pot of spaghetti water. :-) |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Doug Kanter wrote: "JimH" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Doug Kanter wrote: "JimH" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... This week, we had about 1000 square feet of the lower level of our house tiled in ceramic tile. This is the area that comprises my home office. *Lower level* of your house? So you had your basement tiled. Why not just say so. And it sounds like your first quote was off base. I would guess even a non union company would have beat it. What is so special about laying tile that you need to be union? Just my guess: How about the presence of formal training (apprenticeship) arrangements? That means something. Otherwise, you could end up hiring someone who, after discovering they were pretty good at it after doing their own home, decided to open a business. Union tilesetters undergo a formal, three-year apprenticeship program. A lot of that training has to do with the safe handling of various chemicals that are rarely, if ever, used during tilesetting or maintenance in single-family homes. Pure bull****. Why do you say it's bull****? Have you gone through the process, or know anyone who has? This is hilarious. There are dozens of "hazmats" that union masonry work ers taught to handle properly. There is quite a bit of chemistry and math involved in being a journeyman. It takes 3 years for them to learn the dangers of certain cleaners and adhesives? I guess these are not the brightest bulbs in the construction trade. Very few union tilesetters work single-family residential, although I have foudn the crews I've hired in my minor-league homebuilding ventures to be more skilled and efficient than the non-union crews. It is kind of humorous that Hertvik is commenting here...if you saw a photo of his house, you'd conclude that no one with a sense of design, taste or construction skill was involved...but, hey, taste is subjective,eh? We have a 4,000 square foot house constructed in 1992.If you have a picture to post please do. I have no idea how you would have obtained it, but as you have been stalking me recently I guess nothing is beyond belief with you. What's the size go to do with the aesthetic quality of the house? ("aesthetic" means "how it looks"). Nothing nor did I say it had anything to do with how it looks. Perhaps Harry will post a picture though. He did claim to have one. |
"JimH" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Doug Kanter wrote: "JimH" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Doug Kanter wrote: "JimH" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... This week, we had about 1000 square feet of the lower level of our house tiled in ceramic tile. This is the area that comprises my home office. *Lower level* of your house? So you had your basement tiled. Why not just say so. And it sounds like your first quote was off base. I would guess even a non union company would have beat it. What is so special about laying tile that you need to be union? Just my guess: How about the presence of formal training (apprenticeship) arrangements? That means something. Otherwise, you could end up hiring someone who, after discovering they were pretty good at it after doing their own home, decided to open a business. Union tilesetters undergo a formal, three-year apprenticeship program. A lot of that training has to do with the safe handling of various chemicals that are rarely, if ever, used during tilesetting or maintenance in single-family homes. Pure bull****. Why do you say it's bull****? Have you gone through the process, or know anyone who has? This is hilarious. There are dozens of "hazmats" that union masonry work ers taught to handle properly. There is quite a bit of chemistry and math involved in being a journeyman. It takes 3 years for them to learn the dangers of certain cleaners and adhesives? I guess these are not the brightest bulbs in the construction trade. Very few union tilesetters work single-family residential, although I have foudn the crews I've hired in my minor-league homebuilding ventures to be more skilled and efficient than the non-union crews. It is kind of humorous that Hertvik is commenting here...if you saw a photo of his house, you'd conclude that no one with a sense of design, taste or construction skill was involved...but, hey, taste is subjective,eh? We have a 4,000 square foot house constructed in 1992.If you have a picture to post please do. I have no idea how you would have obtained it, but as you have been stalking me recently I guess nothing is beyond belief with you. What's the size go to do with the aesthetic quality of the house? ("aesthetic" means "how it looks"). Nothing nor did I say it had anything to do with how it looks. Perhaps Harry will post a picture though. He did claim to have one. Harry said nothing about its size, but that's the thing you responded to. "It's green" "No. It's a big house" WTF? |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Doug Kanter wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... and on houses with "Starting from $550,000..." Residential construction is the bottom of the barrel. We've got plenty of developments like that here. One of them was involved in an interesting scandal a few years back. It involved the builder, the bank he used to offer financing to the buyers, and the bank's assessor. They arranged for the homes to be valued at $500-700K in an area where similar homes were $200 or so. Somehow, they managed to convince not only the buyers, but the town, that it would be the next up-and-coming neighborhood. It was similar to the tulip madness in Europe in the 16th century. The best part is that so many of these homes were built that it affected the town's property tax planning. When the bottom fell out....you know the rest. Besides THAT mess, the owners are stuck with homes that they'll NEVER get their money out of when they retire and move to NOYB-land. And, the houses are built like crap. In one of my son's friends' homes, trim sections of sheetrock were glued to the beams. No screws at all. The mom said she was cooking one day and a 1x4 foot strip fell into the pot of spaghetti water. It's too bad that in many counties, the building inspection department is in the back pocket of contractors. I was on a commercial jobsite last week that was run properly. You could tell by looking around. What a truly asinine statement. That shows how much you know about construction. How do you know that the GC required adequate risk transfer controls (insurance, hold harmless, named additional insured) from the subs? How do you know the GC was on top of construction quality, including materials and workmanship? How do you know if the job was on schedule? Just because there is a *safety man* (what were his qualifications btw?) walking around does not mean the job was being run properly.....but in your world I guess it does. |
On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:57:31 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: ~~ snippage ~~ Sure - this kind of work isn't necessarily exclusive to union workers. But, when I questioned the shimming & leveling tricks, he said he'd learned it during 3 years of training with some union guys. If YOU wanted to do that kind of work, where would you go to learn it? Would you waste time buying magazines and browsing the web, hoping to find the information, or take the most direct route to the source of training, which is probably other workers? I am probably going to take a lot of flack for this, but I'm not totally convinced that hiring a Union worker is the best way to go. My results have been 50/50 with Union trades - I've already told the story of the two Union masons and their apprentices, so I won't tell it again. However, because of somebody near and dear to me, is a union supporter, worker and member and one of my friends is a IBEW type (as in bigshot) I often try to hire Union when I need something done. I have even hired Union Labor - just average joes who are sitting around the Union hall looking for work. My observation is that just like every other thing, you get good Union workers, so-so Union workers and lousy Union workers - more so-so and lousy than good to outstanding Union workers. That has been my experience. We've had a rather interesting situation here in CT of having unions strike unions for higher pay and benefits than the parent union gives it's own members - and get them! There is something wrong with that. I've been in situations where Union work rules just got in the way of simple tasks that any bozo could do - from electrical cords to erecting a display booth - silly, stupid things that are only designed to keep somebody busy. So I'm ambivalent about unions. If pressed my opinion would be that the era of big unions has passed on and that a return to local guilds and trade groups would be more beneficial to the average tradesman or worker. Take care. Tom "The beatings will stop when morale improves." E. Teach, 1717 |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Doug Kanter wrote: Harry said nothing about its size, but that's the thing you responded to. "It's green" "No. It's a big house" WTF? That is actually what I say to most every one of your posts Doug. And why are you also obsessed about my house? |
"JimH" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Doug Kanter wrote: Harry said nothing about its size, but that's the thing you responded to. "It's green" "No. It's a big house" WTF? That is actually what I say to most every one of your posts Doug. And why are you also obsessed about my house? I really don't care about your house. I'm watching your interchange with Harry as a source of amusement, because you can't seem to focus on the issue. |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
... Every worker on the site was wearing steel-toed shows, safety glasses, and a hardhat. Building trash was picked up off the decks and put in barrels, the crane operator had two helpers, the sidewalk was properly controlled. *This* was the site of a GC who wanted to keep his workers' comp premiums low. On the other hand, there's Home Depot. I was there two nights ago with my 500-foot-long list of things for the new house. I turned down the tile aisle and saw a guy about to cut some tile for a customer. I wandered over because I'd never seen one of those machines in operation. The professional sales associate wasn't wearing goggles. The customer said "Hang on a second....what about goggles?" The PSA says "The machine pretty much just throws off water." Pretty much. He starts it up, moves the tile to the blade, and a small chip zings over his shoulder and makes a little "clack" as it hit the girder of the shelves behind us. :-) The guy just kept going. The other customer and I just looked at each other and shook our heads. |
On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:54:35 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Every worker on the site was wearing steel-toed shows, safety glasses, and a hardhat. Building trash was picked up off the decks and put in barrels, the crane operator had two helpers, the sidewalk was properly controlled. *This* was the site of a GC who wanted to keep his workers' comp premiums low. On the other hand, there's Home Depot. I was there two nights ago with my 500-foot-long list of things for the new house. I turned down the tile aisle and saw a guy about to cut some tile for a customer. I wandered over because I'd never seen one of those machines in operation. The professional sales associate wasn't wearing goggles. The customer said "Hang on a second....what about goggles?" The PSA says "The machine pretty much just throws off water." Pretty much. He starts it up, moves the tile to the blade, and a small chip zings over his shoulder and makes a little "clack" as it hit the girder of the shelves behind us. :-) The guy just kept going. The other customer and I just looked at each other and shook our heads. I have a full bore, top-of-the-line wood shop. I am not allowed in it unless there are people in the house ready to immediately take me to the hospital. And I'm probably the most careful, safety conscious person you will ever meet (with the single exception of seat belts). I actually wear a life preserver when I'm in any of my boats. Take care. Tom "The beatings will stop when morale improves." E. Teach, 1717 |
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
... I've been in situations where Union work rules just got in the way of simple tasks that any bozo could do - from electrical cords to erecting a display booth - silly, stupid things that are only designed to keep somebody busy. That stuff's just plain stupid. The audio store where I used to work would have a booth at the car & boat shows here. The convention center rep gave us a speech about how we weren't supposed to plug in our equipment. An electrician had to do it. Once, one of us wired a fat car amp to the display speakers with 18 gauge speaker wire. The boss told him to use the fancy Monster Cable. Someone came over and said we had to wait for an electrician. He turned out to be wrong (because it didn't involve an AC line), but the guy still acted like the world was about to end. The funny thing is that we were all installers with 10 years' of experience. The electrician probably would've burned his car down installing some of that stuff. Speaking of which, we once had a car come in for repair. The old lady said the radio kept cutting off & on. It was an aftermarket unit. When I got under the dash, I found all sorts of nasty stuff, obviously the work of a slob. I cleaned it all up in about 10 minutes. Then, I told the lady "Whoever did this was a real hack. Totally incompetent. Don't let him touch your car again". She gives me this look and says "My son did it, and I'll have you know he's an engineer with NASA". Oh boy. I didn't charge her. :-) |
On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:07:34 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message .. . I've been in situations where Union work rules just got in the way of simple tasks that any bozo could do - from electrical cords to erecting a display booth - silly, stupid things that are only designed to keep somebody busy. That stuff's just plain stupid. The audio store where I used to work would have a booth at the car & boat shows here. The convention center rep gave us a speech about how we weren't supposed to plug in our equipment. An electrician had to do it. Once, one of us wired a fat car amp to the display speakers with 18 gauge speaker wire. The boss told him to use the fancy Monster Cable. Someone came over and said we had to wait for an electrician. He turned out to be wrong (because it didn't involve an AC line), but the guy still acted like the world was about to end. The funny thing is that we were all installers with 10 years' of experience. The electrician probably would've burned his car down installing some of that stuff. Speaking of which, we once had a car come in for repair. The old lady said the radio kept cutting off & on. It was an aftermarket unit. When I got under the dash, I found all sorts of nasty stuff, obviously the work of a slob. I cleaned it all up in about 10 minutes. Then, I told the lady "Whoever did this was a real hack. Totally incompetent. Don't let him touch your car again". She gives me this look and says "My son did it, and I'll have you know he's an engineer with NASA". Oh boy. I didn't charge her. :-) Some day we'll have to get together over pizza and swap stories about engineers and other highly skilled technical people. :) I've got a ton of them. All the best, Tom -------------- "What the hell's the deal with this newsgroup... is there a computer terminal in the day room of some looney bin somewhere?" Bilgeman - circa 2004 |
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:07:34 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message .. . I've been in situations where Union work rules just got in the way of simple tasks that any bozo could do - from electrical cords to erecting a display booth - silly, stupid things that are only designed to keep somebody busy. That stuff's just plain stupid. The audio store where I used to work would have a booth at the car & boat shows here. The convention center rep gave us a speech about how we weren't supposed to plug in our equipment. An electrician had to do it. Once, one of us wired a fat car amp to the display speakers with 18 gauge speaker wire. The boss told him to use the fancy Monster Cable. Someone came over and said we had to wait for an electrician. He turned out to be wrong (because it didn't involve an AC line), but the guy still acted like the world was about to end. The funny thing is that we were all installers with 10 years' of experience. The electrician probably would've burned his car down installing some of that stuff. Speaking of which, we once had a car come in for repair. The old lady said the radio kept cutting off & on. It was an aftermarket unit. When I got under the dash, I found all sorts of nasty stuff, obviously the work of a slob. I cleaned it all up in about 10 minutes. Then, I told the lady "Whoever did this was a real hack. Totally incompetent. Don't let him touch your car again". She gives me this look and says "My son did it, and I'll have you know he's an engineer with NASA". Oh boy. I didn't charge her. :-) Some day we'll have to get together over pizza and swap stories about engineers and other highly skilled technical people. :) I've got a ton of them. I require anchovies. |
On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:16:19 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:07:34 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message .. . I've been in situations where Union work rules just got in the way of simple tasks that any bozo could do - from electrical cords to erecting a display booth - silly, stupid things that are only designed to keep somebody busy. That stuff's just plain stupid. The audio store where I used to work would have a booth at the car & boat shows here. The convention center rep gave us a speech about how we weren't supposed to plug in our equipment. An electrician had to do it. Once, one of us wired a fat car amp to the display speakers with 18 gauge speaker wire. The boss told him to use the fancy Monster Cable. Someone came over and said we had to wait for an electrician. He turned out to be wrong (because it didn't involve an AC line), but the guy still acted like the world was about to end. The funny thing is that we were all installers with 10 years' of experience. The electrician probably would've burned his car down installing some of that stuff. Speaking of which, we once had a car come in for repair. The old lady said the radio kept cutting off & on. It was an aftermarket unit. When I got under the dash, I found all sorts of nasty stuff, obviously the work of a slob. I cleaned it all up in about 10 minutes. Then, I told the lady "Whoever did this was a real hack. Totally incompetent. Don't let him touch your car again". She gives me this look and says "My son did it, and I'll have you know he's an engineer with NASA". Oh boy. I didn't charge her. :-) Some day we'll have to get together over pizza and swap stories about engineers and other highly skilled technical people. :) I've got a ton of them. I require anchovies. You can have anything you want on yours. Later, Tom |
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... I've been in situations where Union work rules just got in the way of simple tasks that any bozo could do - from electrical cords to erecting a display booth - silly, stupid things that are only designed to keep somebody busy. Like a girls volleyball tournament that was held at the Philadelphia Convention Center. Following quoted from Philadelphia Daily News: Its organizers can set up a complete volleyball court in an hour or less with eight 14-year-old girls. But not in our Convention Center. Here, it took six union laborers two hours a court at a cost of $65 per person per hour. Because the four barrels holding down the volleyball poles are filled with water, in Philadelphia this means you involve two plumbers for two hours each to fill and place the four barrels needed for each court. The bottom line: $135,000 for 30 courts as compared to $15,000 for 54 courts in Baltimore! |
"John P Reber" wrote in message ... Doug Kanter wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... I've been in situations where Union work rules just got in the way of simple tasks that any bozo could do - from electrical cords to erecting a display booth - silly, stupid things that are only designed to keep somebody busy. Like a girls volleyball tournament that was held at the Philadelphia Convention Center. Following quoted from Philadelphia Daily News: Its organizers can set up a complete volleyball court in an hour or less with eight 14-year-old girls. But not in our Convention Center. Here, it took six union laborers two hours a court at a cost of $65 per person per hour. Because the four barrels holding down the volleyball poles are filled with water, in Philadelphia this means you involve two plumbers for two hours each to fill and place the four barrels needed for each court. The bottom line: $135,000 for 30 courts as compared to $15,000 for 54 courts in Baltimore! But didn't you know that the union guys spent 3 years learning about the hazards of water? And Harry would argue that they filled the barrels with water better than a non union person could. |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Doug Kanter wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Every worker on the site was wearing steel-toed shows, safety glasses, and a hardhat. Building trash was picked up off the decks and put in barrels, the crane operator had two helpers, the sidewalk was properly controlled. *This* was the site of a GC who wanted to keep his workers' comp premiums low. On the other hand, there's Home Depot. I was there two nights ago with my 500-foot-long list of things for the new house. I turned down the tile aisle and saw a guy about to cut some tile for a customer. I wandered over because I'd never seen one of those machines in operation. The professional sales associate wasn't wearing goggles. The customer said "Hang on a second....what about goggles?" The PSA says "The machine pretty much just throws off water." Pretty much. He starts it up, moves the tile to the blade, and a small chip zings over his shoulder and makes a little "clack" as it hit the girder of the shelves behind us. :-) The guy just kept going. The other customer and I just looked at each other and shook our heads. Maybe your Home Despot sales clerk was a high-tech worker until last year, when his US employer took advantage of a tax credit to ship his job overseas. So the fella took advantage of one of those Bush retraining programs. We have a wonderful local hardware store that I am fearful will be hurt next year when a Home Despot is scheduled to open a few miles away. But maybe not...the store survives on providing knowledge and service, and you won't find much of either at the big box stores. A couple of weeks ago, I was up there buying four sacks of fall lawn fertilizer, and got to the cash register when I realized I had forgotten my wallet. "No problem, Mr. Krause...just pay for it the next time you are in..." Try that at Home Despot. There are two real hardware stores within 5 minutes of HD here. They're both busier than ever. I use them on weekends, but during the week, they close early, so HD gets the money. There was a third store that was the best I've ever seen. It was a 3 minute walk from my first house. The owners (husband & wife) taught me everything I know about house maintenance, and probably saved me a few thousand bucks & a lot of time I would've wasted trying to get advice at Hechinger's. Unfortunately, the store was on the border of two neighborhoods. There are black people, and then there are black people whose minds are stuck in the 1960s and who think Al Sharpton is god. That last type - they'd come to the store and say "You made me these keys yesterday, but I don't need 'em. I want my money back." They'd get REALLY ****y when he'd point to the sign saying "No refunds on keys". He'd politely explain that if the key didn't work, he'd be happy to make them another one, but that usually didn't satisfy the "customer". I was there one day when a woman of grandma age said "You cracker asshole! You got a real problem with black folks, don't ya?" The owner of the gun shop next door heard the ruckus and stopped over, just in case..... Once, he explained to another key return customer that he was a licensed locksmith, and that if he took the time to examine returned keys, he could probably find a few that he could reuse, but with a busy store, that wasn't likely to happen. The customer said "That's bull****!" and stormed out the door. Another time, I watched as a woman pulled out one of those multi-compartment drawers full of assorted washers, let it dump on the floor, smiled, said "Oops!" in a really snotty way, and walked out the door. My son was with me that day. He was 4 at the time, so he was close to the ground. He sorted out the washers and put them back in the drawer. Finally, the owner and his wife had enough and closed the place. |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:16:19 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message . .. On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:07:34 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message .. . I've been in situations where Union work rules just got in the way of simple tasks that any bozo could do - from electrical cords to erecting a display booth - silly, stupid things that are only designed to keep somebody busy. That stuff's just plain stupid. The audio store where I used to work would have a booth at the car & boat shows here. The convention center rep gave us a speech about how we weren't supposed to plug in our equipment. An electrician had to do it. Once, one of us wired a fat car amp to the display speakers with 18 gauge speaker wire. The boss told him to use the fancy Monster Cable. Someone came over and said we had to wait for an electrician. He turned out to be wrong (because it didn't involve an AC line), but the guy still acted like the world was about to end. The funny thing is that we were all installers with 10 years' of experience. The electrician probably would've burned his car down installing some of that stuff. Speaking of which, we once had a car come in for repair. The old lady said the radio kept cutting off & on. It was an aftermarket unit. When I got under the dash, I found all sorts of nasty stuff, obviously the work of a slob. I cleaned it all up in about 10 minutes. Then, I told the lady "Whoever did this was a real hack. Totally incompetent. Don't let him touch your car again". She gives me this look and says "My son did it, and I'll have you know he's an engineer with NASA". Oh boy. I didn't charge her. :-) Some day we'll have to get together over pizza and swap stories about engineers and other highly skilled technical people. :) I've got a ton of them. I require anchovies. You can have anything you want on yours. Later, Tom If you guys decide upon Pepe's on Wooster Street in New Haven...I might join you. Pepe's has the pizza worth burning the roof of your mouth upon, to coin a phrase. Only if there's a strip club nearby. And, if you invite JohnH, I'll kill you, Harry. I'll cut your heart out with the sharp edge of the pizza crust. :-) |
"WaIIy" wrote in message ... On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:11:54 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: Finally, the owner and his wife had enough and closed the place. Your story is the elephant in the living room. What???? |
"WaIIy" wrote in message ... On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:27:41 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "WaIIy" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:11:54 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: Finally, the owner and his wife had enough and closed the place. Your story is the elephant in the living room. What???? Reading your story was interesting and not uncommon from what I've seen and heard around here. The elephant in the living room is the main theme of your story that many people deny. Oh...OK. Actually, even black leaders including our excellent mayor are talking about it here lately, which is refreshing. |
"JimH" wrote in message ...
"Harry Krause" piedtypecase@a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=yahoo%20com" onmouseover="window.status='yahoo.com'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"yahoo.com/a wrote in message ... Doug Kanter wrote: "JimH" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... This week, we had about 1000 square feet of the lower level of our house tiled in a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=ceramic%20tile" onmouseover="window.status='ceramic tile'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"ceramic tile/a. This is the area that comprises my a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=home%20office" onmouseover="window.status='home office'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"home office/a. *Lower level* of your house? So you had your basement tiled. Why not just say so. And it sounds like your first quote was off base. I would guess even a non union company would have beat it. What is so special about laying tile that you need to be union? Just my guess: How about the presence of formal training (apprenticeship) arrangements? That means something. Otherwise, you could end up hiring someone who, after discovering they were pretty good at it after doing their own home, decided to open a business. Union tilesetters undergo a formal, three-year apprenticeship program. A lot of that training has to do with the safe handling of various chemicals that are rarely, if ever, used during tilesetting or maintenance in single-family homes. Pure bull****. Very few union tilesetters work single-family residential, although I have foudn the crews I've hired in my minor-league homebuilding ventures to be more skilled and efficient than the non-union crews. It is kind of humorous that Hertvik is commenting here...if you saw a photo of his house, you'd conclude that no one with a sense of design, taste or construction skill was involved...but, hey, taste is subjective,eh? We have a 4,000 square foot house constructed in 1992. If you have a picture to post please do. I have no idea how you would have obtained it, but as you have been stalking me recently I guess nothing is beyond belief with you. Tile setting is not difficult. No need for a 3 year apprenticeship program unless one is mentally challenged. As usual, you are wrong. Dead wrong. Look below, taken from http://www.calmis.cahwnet.gov/file/occguide/TILESET.HTM ENTRANCE REQUIREMENTS AND TRAINING Tile Setters usually begin as helpers until they enter an apprenticeship program. After completing a three or four-year program that includes both practical and classroom education, the apprentice can advance to full journey-level status. An apprenticeship program usually consists of on-the-job training and related classroom instruction in blueprint reading, layout, and basic mathematics. To become an apprentice, a candidate must be at least 18 years old and be physically able to perform the work of the trade. Good vision, color perception, and manual dexterity are important assets. Though there are no formal educational requirements, employers usually prefer high school graduates. Job applicants should know basic math and be able to read and write. Helpful high school classes include shop and mechanical drawing. The ability to read blueprints is also a desirable skill. In areas where there are no union apprenticeship programs, many Tile Setters acquire skills informally by working as helpers to experienced workers. So, as you can see, you, again, don't have a damned clue what you are talking about. |
"basskisser" wrote in message om... "JimH" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" piedtypecase@a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=yahoo%20com" onmouseover="window.status='yahoo.com'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"yahoo.com/a wrote in message ... Doug Kanter wrote: "JimH" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... This week, we had about 1000 square feet of the lower level of our house tiled in a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=ceramic%20tile" onmouseover="window.status='ceramic tile'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"ceramic tile/a. This is the area that comprises my a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=home%20office" onmouseover="window.status='home office'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"home office/a. *Lower level* of your house? So you had your basement tiled. Why not just say so. And it sounds like your first quote was off base. I would guess even a non union company would have beat it. What is so special about laying tile that you need to be union? Just my guess: How about the presence of formal training (apprenticeship) arrangements? That means something. Otherwise, you could end up hiring someone who, after discovering they were pretty good at it after doing their own home, decided to open a business. Union tilesetters undergo a formal, three-year apprenticeship program. A lot of that training has to do with the safe handling of various chemicals that are rarely, if ever, used during tilesetting or maintenance in single-family homes. Pure bull****. Very few union tilesetters work single-family residential, although I have foudn the crews I've hired in my minor-league homebuilding ventures to be more skilled and efficient than the non-union crews. It is kind of humorous that Hertvik is commenting here...if you saw a photo of his house, you'd conclude that no one with a sense of design, taste or construction skill was involved...but, hey, taste is subjective,eh? We have a 4,000 square foot house constructed in 1992. If you have a picture to post please do. I have no idea how you would have obtained it, but as you have been stalking me recently I guess nothing is beyond belief with you. Tile setting is not difficult. No need for a 3 year apprenticeship program unless one is mentally challenged. As usual, you are wrong. Dead wrong. Look below, taken from http://www.calmis.cahwnet.gov/file/occguide/TILESET.HTM ENTRANCE REQUIREMENTS AND TRAINING Tile Setters usually begin as helpers until they enter an apprenticeship program. After completing a three or four-year program that includes both practical and classroom education, the apprentice can advance to full journey-level status. An apprenticeship program usually consists of on-the-job training and related classroom instruction in blueprint reading, layout, and basic mathematics. To become an apprentice, a candidate must be at least 18 years old and be physically able to perform the work of the trade. Good vision, color perception, and manual dexterity are important assets. Though there are no formal educational requirements, employers usually prefer high school graduates. Job applicants should know basic math and be able to read and write. Helpful high school classes include shop and mechanical drawing. The ability to read blueprints is also a desirable skill. In areas where there are no union apprenticeship programs, many Tile Setters acquire skills informally by working as helpers to experienced workers. So, as you can see, you, again, don't have a damned clue what you are talking about. I never disputed the fact that they had a 3 year apprenticeship, only that the trade is certainly not one requiring 3 years of training as tile setting is not a skilled trade imo. Try reading for content next time and stick to the issue 'Bassy. |
"JimH" wrote in message
... only that the trade is certainly not one requiring 3 years of training as tile setting is not a skilled trade imo. That's rich. Ever seen a tile job that falls into the category of cob job, like you see in perhaps 90% of hotel bathrooms and 50% of homes? |
"JimH" wrote in message ... "basskisser" wrote in message om... "JimH" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" piedtypecase@a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=yahoo%20com" onmouseover="window.status='yahoo.com'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"yahoo.com/a wrote in message ... Doug Kanter wrote: "JimH" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... This week, we had about 1000 square feet of the lower level of our house tiled in a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=ceramic%20tile" onmouseover="window.status='ceramic tile'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"ceramic tile/a. This is the area that comprises my a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=home%20office" onmouseover="window.status='home office'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"home office/a. *Lower level* of your house? So you had your basement tiled. Why not just say so. And it sounds like your first quote was off base. I would guess even a non union company would have beat it. What is so special about laying tile that you need to be union? Just my guess: How about the presence of formal training (apprenticeship) arrangements? That means something. Otherwise, you could end up hiring someone who, after discovering they were pretty good at it after doing their own home, decided to open a business. Union tilesetters undergo a formal, three-year apprenticeship program. A lot of that training has to do with the safe handling of various chemicals that are rarely, if ever, used during tilesetting or maintenance in single-family homes. Pure bull****. Very few union tilesetters work single-family residential, although I have foudn the crews I've hired in my minor-league homebuilding ventures to be more skilled and efficient than the non-union crews. It is kind of humorous that Hertvik is commenting here...if you saw a photo of his house, you'd conclude that no one with a sense of design, taste or construction skill was involved...but, hey, taste is subjective,eh? We have a 4,000 square foot house constructed in 1992. If you have a picture to post please do. I have no idea how you would have obtained it, but as you have been stalking me recently I guess nothing is beyond belief with you. Tile setting is not difficult. No need for a 3 year apprenticeship program unless one is mentally challenged. As usual, you are wrong. Dead wrong. Look below, taken from http://www.calmis.cahwnet.gov/file/occguide/TILESET.HTM ENTRANCE REQUIREMENTS AND TRAINING Tile Setters usually begin as helpers until they enter an apprenticeship program. After completing a three or four-year program that includes both practical and classroom education, the apprentice can advance to full journey-level status. An apprenticeship program usually consists of on-the-job training and related classroom instruction in blueprint reading, layout, and basic mathematics. To become an apprentice, a candidate must be at least 18 years old and be physically able to perform the work of the trade. Good vision, color perception, and manual dexterity are important assets. Though there are no formal educational requirements, employers usually prefer high school graduates. Job applicants should know basic math and be able to read and write. Helpful high school classes include shop and mechanical drawing. The ability to read blueprints is also a desirable skill. In areas where there are no union apprenticeship programs, many Tile Setters acquire skills informally by working as helpers to experienced workers. So, as you can see, you, again, don't have a damned clue what you are talking about. I never disputed the fact that they had a 3 year apprenticeship, only that the trade is certainly not one requiring 3 years of training as tile setting is not a skilled trade imo. Try reading for content next time and stick to the issue 'Bassy. Asslicker ought to read his own posts...... "In areas where there are no union apprenticeship programs, many Tile Setters acquire skills informally by working as helpers to experienced workers." Pretty much sums up your point that there is no NEED for an apprenticeship program. ONce again, asslicker shows why he retains the crown as "King of the NG idiots" |
"P.Fritz" wrote in message
... "In areas where there are no union apprenticeship programs, many Tile Setters acquire skills informally by working as helpers to experienced workers." Pretty much sums up your point that there is no NEED for an apprenticeship program. Uh oh. It's Fritz logic again. Let's see if I understand you correctly: If something doesn't exist in a certain place, that means there's no need for it? And, what if the only tile installers in a small town have marginal skills, but more than a guy who's interested in entering the trade and needs training? Would you say there is a need for GOOD training, or should he just throw up his hands and say "Oh well. I'll learn from someone who's just a year ahead of where I am now"? |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Bert Robbins wrote: I still make more money than you! If that thought makes you feel good, keep on deluding yourself. It's not a delusion and you know it! |
"P.Fritz" wrote in message ...
"JimH" wrote in message ... "basskisser" atl_man2@a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=yahoo%20com" onmouseover="window.status='yahoo.com'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"yahoo.com/a wrote in message om... "JimH" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" piedtypecase@a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=yahoo%20com" onmouseover="window.status='yahoo.com'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"yahoo.com/a wrote in message ... Doug Kanter wrote: "JimH" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... This week, we had about 1000 square feet of the lower level of our house tiled in a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=ceramic%20tile" onmouseover="window.status='a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=ceramic%20tile" onmouseover="window.status='ceramic tile'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"ceramic tile/a'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"ceramic tile/a. This is the area that comprises my a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=home%20office" onmouseover="window.status='a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=home%20office" onmouseover="window.status='home office'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"home office/a'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"home office/a. *Lower level* of your house? So you had your basement tiled. Why not just say so. And it sounds like your first quote was off base. I would guess even a non union company would have beat it. What is so special about laying tile that you need to be union? Just my guess: How about the presence of formal training (apprenticeship) arrangements? That means something. Otherwise, you could end up hiring someone who, after discovering they were pretty good at it after doing their own home, decided to open a business. Union tilesetters undergo a formal, three-year apprenticeship program. A lot of that training has to do with the safe handling of various chemicals that are rarely, if ever, used during tilesetting or maintenance in single-family homes. Pure bull****. Very few union tilesetters work single-family residential, although I have foudn the crews I've hired in my minor-league homebuilding ventures to be more skilled and efficient than the non-union crews. It is kind of humorous that Hertvik is commenting here...if you saw a photo of his house, you'd conclude that no one with a sense of design, taste or construction skill was involved...but, hey, taste is subjective,eh? We have a 4,000 square foot house constructed in 1992. If you have a picture to post please do. I have no idea how you would have obtained it, but as you have been stalking me recently I guess nothing is beyond belief with you. Tile setting is not difficult. No need for a 3 year apprenticeship program unless one is mentally challenged. As usual, you are wrong. Dead wrong. Look below, taken from http://www.calmis.cahwnet.gov/file/occguide/TILESET.HTM ENTRANCE REQUIREMENTS AND TRAINING Tile Setters usually begin as helpers until they enter an apprenticeship program. After completing a three or four-year program that includes both practical and classroom education, the apprentice can advance to full journey-level status. An apprenticeship program usually consists of on-the-job training and related classroom instruction in blueprint reading, layout, and basic mathematics. To become an apprentice, a candidate must be at least 18 years old and be physically able to perform the work of the trade. Good vision, color perception, and manual dexterity are important assets. Though there are no formal educational requirements, employers usually prefer high school graduates. Job applicants should know basic math and be able to read and write. Helpful high school classes include shop and mechanical drawing. The ability to read blueprints is also a desirable skill. In areas where there are no union apprenticeship programs, many Tile Setters acquire skills informally by working as helpers to experienced workers. So, as you can see, you, again, don't have a damned clue what you are talking about. I never disputed the fact that they had a 3 year apprenticeship, only that the trade is certainly not one requiring 3 years of training as tile setting is not a skilled trade imo. Try reading for content next time and stick to the issue 'Bassy. Asslicker ought to read his own posts...... "In areas where there are no union apprenticeship programs, many Tile Setters acquire skills informally by working as helpers to experienced workers." Pretty much sums up your point that there is no NEED for an apprenticeship program. ONce again, asslicker shows why he retains the crown as "King of the NG idiots" I wish you had more than a third grade mentality, then perhaps you'd know something, and something could be explained to you. Know wonder your wife ran you off. |
"P.Fritz" wrote in message ...
"JimH" wrote in message ... "basskisser" atl_man2@a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=yahoo%20com" onmouseover="window.status='yahoo.com'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"yahoo.com/a wrote in message om... "JimH" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" piedtypecase@a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=yahoo%20com" onmouseover="window.status='yahoo.com'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"yahoo.com/a wrote in message ... Doug Kanter wrote: "JimH" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... This week, we had about 1000 square feet of the lower level of our house tiled in a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=ceramic%20tile" onmouseover="window.status='a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=ceramic%20tile" onmouseover="window.status='ceramic tile'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"ceramic tile/a'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"ceramic tile/a. This is the area that comprises my a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=home%20office" onmouseover="window.status='a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=home%20office" onmouseover="window.status='home office'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"home office/a'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"home office/a. *Lower level* of your house? So you had your basement tiled. Why not just say so. And it sounds like your first quote was off base. I would guess even a non union company would have beat it. What is so special about laying tile that you need to be union? Just my guess: How about the presence of formal training (apprenticeship) arrangements? That means something. Otherwise, you could end up hiring someone who, after discovering they were pretty good at it after doing their own home, decided to open a business. Union tilesetters undergo a formal, three-year apprenticeship program. A lot of that training has to do with the safe handling of various chemicals that are rarely, if ever, used during tilesetting or maintenance in single-family homes. Pure bull****. Very few union tilesetters work single-family residential, although I have foudn the crews I've hired in my minor-league homebuilding ventures to be more skilled and efficient than the non-union crews. It is kind of humorous that Hertvik is commenting here...if you saw a photo of his house, you'd conclude that no one with a sense of design, taste or construction skill was involved...but, hey, taste is subjective,eh? We have a 4,000 square foot house constructed in 1992. If you have a picture to post please do. I have no idea how you would have obtained it, but as you have been stalking me recently I guess nothing is beyond belief with you. Tile setting is not difficult. No need for a 3 year apprenticeship program unless one is mentally challenged. As usual, you are wrong. Dead wrong. Look below, taken from http://www.calmis.cahwnet.gov/file/occguide/TILESET.HTM ENTRANCE REQUIREMENTS AND TRAINING Tile Setters usually begin as helpers until they enter an apprenticeship program. After completing a three or four-year program that includes both practical and classroom education, the apprentice can advance to full journey-level status. An apprenticeship program usually consists of on-the-job training and related classroom instruction in blueprint reading, layout, and basic mathematics. To become an apprentice, a candidate must be at least 18 years old and be physically able to perform the work of the trade. Good vision, color perception, and manual dexterity are important assets. Though there are no formal educational requirements, employers usually prefer high school graduates. Job applicants should know basic math and be able to read and write. Helpful high school classes include shop and mechanical drawing. The ability to read blueprints is also a desirable skill. In areas where there are no union apprenticeship programs, many Tile Setters acquire skills informally by working as helpers to experienced workers. So, as you can see, you, again, don't have a damned clue what you are talking about. I never disputed the fact that they had a 3 year apprenticeship, only that the trade is certainly not one requiring 3 years of training as tile setting is not a skilled trade imo. Try reading for content next time and stick to the issue 'Bassy. Asslicker ought to read his own posts...... "In areas where there are no union apprenticeship programs, many Tile Setters acquire skills informally by working as helpers to experienced workers." Pretty much sums up your point that there is no NEED for an apprenticeship program. ONce again, asslicker shows why he retains the crown as "King of the NG idiots" What to **** do you think that "working as helpers to experienced workers" is, anyway???? |
"basskisser" wrote in message om... "P.Fritz" wrote in message ... "JimH" wrote in message ... "basskisser" atl_man2@a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=yahoo%20com" onmouseover="window.status='yahoo.com'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"yahoo.com/a wrote in message om... "JimH" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" piedtypecase@a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=yahoo%20com" onmouseover="window.status='yahoo.com'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"yahoo.com/a wrote in message ... Doug Kanter wrote: "JimH" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... This week, we had about 1000 square feet of the lower level of our house tiled in a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=ceramic%20tile" onmouseover="window.status='a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=ceramic%20tile" onmouseover="window.status='ceramic tile'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"ceramic tile/a'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"ceramic tile/a. This is the area that comprises my a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=home%20office" onmouseover="window.status='a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=home%20office" onmouseover="window.status='home office'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"home office/a'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"home office/a. *Lower level* of your house? So you had your basement tiled. Why not just say so. And it sounds like your first quote was off base. I would guess even a non union company would have beat it. What is so special about laying tile that you need to be union? Just my guess: How about the presence of formal training (apprenticeship) arrangements? That means something. Otherwise, you could end up hiring someone who, after discovering they were pretty good at it after doing their own home, decided to open a business. Union tilesetters undergo a formal, three-year apprenticeship program. A lot of that training has to do with the safe handling of various chemicals that are rarely, if ever, used during tilesetting or maintenance in single-family homes. Pure bull****. Very few union tilesetters work single-family residential, although I have foudn the crews I've hired in my minor-league homebuilding ventures to be more skilled and efficient than the non-union crews. It is kind of humorous that Hertvik is commenting here...if you saw a photo of his house, you'd conclude that no one with a sense of design, taste or construction skill was involved...but, hey, taste is subjective,eh? We have a 4,000 square foot house constructed in 1992. If you have a picture to post please do. I have no idea how you would have obtained it, but as you have been stalking me recently I guess nothing is beyond belief with you. Tile setting is not difficult. No need for a 3 year apprenticeship program unless one is mentally challenged. As usual, you are wrong. Dead wrong. Look below, taken from http://www.calmis.cahwnet.gov/file/occguide/TILESET.HTM ENTRANCE REQUIREMENTS AND TRAINING Tile Setters usually begin as helpers until they enter an apprenticeship program. After completing a three or four-year program that includes both practical and classroom education, the apprentice can advance to full journey-level status. An apprenticeship program usually consists of on-the-job training and related classroom instruction in blueprint reading, layout, and basic mathematics. To become an apprentice, a candidate must be at least 18 years old and be physically able to perform the work of the trade. Good vision, color perception, and manual dexterity are important assets. Though there are no formal educational requirements, employers usually prefer high school graduates. Job applicants should know basic math and be able to read and write. Helpful high school classes include shop and mechanical drawing. The ability to read blueprints is also a desirable skill. In areas where there are no union apprenticeship programs, many Tile Setters acquire skills informally by working as helpers to experienced workers. So, as you can see, you, again, don't have a damned clue what you are talking about. I never disputed the fact that they had a 3 year apprenticeship, only that the trade is certainly not one requiring 3 years of training as tile setting is not a skilled trade imo. Try reading for content next time and stick to the issue 'Bassy. Asslicker ought to read his own posts...... "In areas where there are no union apprenticeship programs, many Tile Setters acquire skills informally by working as helpers to experienced workers." Pretty much sums up your point that there is no NEED for an apprenticeship program. ONce again, asslicker shows why he retains the crown as "King of the NG idiots" What to **** do you think that "working as helpers to experienced workers" is, anyway???? Do you argue with people just for the sake of arguing with them? |
"JimH" wrote in message ... "basskisser" wrote in message om... "P.Fritz" wrote in message ... "JimH" wrote in message ... "basskisser" atl_man2@a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=yahoo%20com" onmouseover="window.status='yahoo.com'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"yahoo.com/a wrote in message om... "JimH" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" piedtypecase@a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=yahoo%20com" onmouseover="window.status='yahoo.com'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"yahoo.com/a wrote in message ... Doug Kanter wrote: "JimH" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... This week, we had about 1000 square feet of the lower level of our house tiled in a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=ceramic%20tile" onmouseover="window.status='a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=ceramic%20tile" onmouseover="window.status='ceramic tile'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"ceramic tile/a'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"ceramic tile/a. This is the area that comprises my a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=home%20office" onmouseover="window.status='a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=home%20office" onmouseover="window.status='home office'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"home office/a'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"home office/a. *Lower level* of your house? So you had your basement tiled. Why not just say so. And it sounds like your first quote was off base. I would guess even a non union company would have beat it. What is so special about laying tile that you need to be union? Just my guess: How about the presence of formal training (apprenticeship) arrangements? That means something. Otherwise, you could end up hiring someone who, after discovering they were pretty good at it after doing their own home, decided to open a business. Union tilesetters undergo a formal, three-year apprenticeship program. A lot of that training has to do with the safe handling of various chemicals that are rarely, if ever, used during tilesetting or maintenance in single-family homes. Pure bull****. Very few union tilesetters work single-family residential, although I have foudn the crews I've hired in my minor-league homebuilding ventures to be more skilled and efficient than the non-union crews. It is kind of humorous that Hertvik is commenting here...if you saw a photo of his house, you'd conclude that no one with a sense of design, taste or construction skill was involved...but, hey, taste is subjective,eh? We have a 4,000 square foot house constructed in 1992. If you have a picture to post please do. I have no idea how you would have obtained it, but as you have been stalking me recently I guess nothing is beyond belief with you. Tile setting is not difficult. No need for a 3 year apprenticeship program unless one is mentally challenged. As usual, you are wrong. Dead wrong. Look below, taken from http://www.calmis.cahwnet.gov/file/occguide/TILESET.HTM ENTRANCE REQUIREMENTS AND TRAINING Tile Setters usually begin as helpers until they enter an apprenticeship program. After completing a three or four-year program that includes both practical and classroom education, the apprentice can advance to full journey-level status. An apprenticeship program usually consists of on-the-job training and related classroom instruction in blueprint reading, layout, and basic mathematics. To become an apprentice, a candidate must be at least 18 years old and be physically able to perform the work of the trade. Good vision, color perception, and manual dexterity are important assets. Though there are no formal educational requirements, employers usually prefer high school graduates. Job applicants should know basic math and be able to read and write. Helpful high school classes include shop and mechanical drawing. The ability to read blueprints is also a desirable skill. In areas where there are no union apprenticeship programs, many Tile Setters acquire skills informally by working as helpers to experienced workers. So, as you can see, you, again, don't have a damned clue what you are talking about. I never disputed the fact that they had a 3 year apprenticeship, only that the trade is certainly not one requiring 3 years of training as tile setting is not a skilled trade imo. Try reading for content next time and stick to the issue 'Bassy. Asslicker ought to read his own posts...... "In areas where there are no union apprenticeship programs, many Tile Setters acquire skills informally by working as helpers to experienced workers." Pretty much sums up your point that there is no NEED for an apprenticeship program. ONce again, asslicker shows why he retains the crown as "King of the NG idiots" What to **** do you think that "working as helpers to experienced workers" is, anyway???? Do you argue with people just for the sake of arguing with them? He's to dumb to realize when he has defeated his own arguement. That boy continues to prove he is dumber than a tree stump. |
"P.Fritz" wrote in message ...
"JimH" wrote in message ... "basskisser" atl_man2@a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=yahoo%20com" onmouseover="window.status='yahoo.com'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"yahoo.com/a wrote in message om... "P.Fritz" wrote in message ... "JimH" wrote in message ... "basskisser" atl_man2@a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=yahoo%20com" onmouseover="window.status='yahoo.com'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"yahoo.com/a wrote in message om... "JimH" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" piedtypecase@a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=yahoo%20com" onmouseover="window.status='yahoo.com'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"yahoo.com/a wrote in message ... Doug Kanter wrote: "JimH" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... This week, we had about 1000 square feet of the lower level of our house tiled in a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=ceramic%20tile" onmouseover="window.status='a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=ceramic%20tile" onmouseover="window.status='a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=ceramic%20tile" onmouseover="window.status='ceramic tile'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"ceramic tile/a'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"ceramic tile/a'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"ceramic tile/a. This is the area that comprises my a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=home%20office" onmouseover="window.status='a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=home%20office" onmouseover="window.status='a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=home%20office" onmouseover="window.status='home office'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"home office/a'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"home office/a'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"home office/a. *Lower level* of your house? So you had your basement tiled. Why not just say so. And it sounds like your first quote was off base. I would guess even a non union company would have beat it. What is so special about laying tile that you need to be union? Just my guess: How about the presence of formal training (apprenticeship) arrangements? That means something. Otherwise, you could end up hiring someone who, after discovering they were pretty good at it after doing their own home, decided to open a business. Union tilesetters undergo a formal, three-year apprenticeship program. A lot of that training has to do with the safe handling of various chemicals that are rarely, if ever, used during tilesetting or maintenance in single-family homes. Pure bull****. Very few union tilesetters work single-family residential, although I have foudn the crews I've hired in my minor-league homebuilding ventures to be more skilled and efficient than the non-union crews. It is kind of humorous that Hertvik is commenting here...if you saw a photo of his house, you'd conclude that no one with a sense of design, taste or construction skill was involved...but, hey, taste is subjective,eh? We have a 4,000 square foot house constructed in 1992. If you have a picture to post please do. I have no idea how you would have obtained it, but as you have been stalking me recently I guess nothing is beyond belief with you. Tile setting is not difficult. No need for a 3 year apprenticeship program unless one is mentally challenged. As usual, you are wrong. Dead wrong. Look below, taken from http://www.calmis.cahwnet.gov/file/occguide/TILESET.HTM ENTRANCE REQUIREMENTS AND TRAINING Tile Setters usually begin as helpers until they enter an apprenticeship program. After completing a three or four-year program that includes both practical and classroom education, the apprentice can advance to full journey-level status. An apprenticeship program usually consists of on-the-job training and related classroom instruction in blueprint reading, layout, and basic mathematics. To become an apprentice, a candidate must be at least 18 years old and be physically able to perform the work of the trade. Good vision, color perception, and manual dexterity are important assets. Though there are no formal educational requirements, employers usually prefer high school graduates. Job applicants should know basic math and be able to read and write. Helpful high school classes include shop and mechanical drawing. The ability to read blueprints is also a desirable skill. In areas where there are no union apprenticeship programs, many Tile Setters acquire skills informally by working as helpers to experienced workers. So, as you can see, you, again, don't have a damned clue what you are talking about. I never disputed the fact that they had a 3 year apprenticeship, only that the trade is certainly not one requiring 3 years of training as tile setting is not a skilled trade imo. Try reading for content next time and stick to the issue 'Bassy. Asslicker ought to read his own posts...... "In areas where there are no union apprenticeship programs, many Tile Setters acquire skills informally by working as helpers to experienced workers." Pretty much sums up your point that there is no NEED for an apprenticeship program. ONce again, asslicker shows why he retains the crown as "King of the NG idiots" What to **** do you think that "working as helpers to experienced workers" is, anyway???? Do you argue with people just for the sake of arguing with them? He's to dumb to realize when he has defeated his own arguement. That boy continues to prove he is dumber than a tree stump. Why don't you answer the question, then, Fritz? Do you consider working as helpers to experienced workers as apprenticeship or not? If not, why? Jeez, it's no wonder your wife ran you off. |
"JimH" wrote in message ...
"basskisser" atl_man2@a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=yahoo%20com" onmouseover="window.status='yahoo.com'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"yahoo.com/a wrote in message om... "P.Fritz" wrote in message ... "JimH" wrote in message ... "basskisser" atl_man2@a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=yahoo%20com" onmouseover="window.status='yahoo.com'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"yahoo.com/a wrote in message om... "JimH" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" piedtypecase@a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=yahoo%20com" onmouseover="window.status='yahoo.com'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"yahoo.com/a wrote in message ... Doug Kanter wrote: "JimH" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... This week, we had about 1000 square feet of the lower level of our house tiled in a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=ceramic%20tile" onmouseover="window.status='a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=ceramic%20tile" onmouseover="window.status='a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=ceramic%20tile" onmouseover="window.status='ceramic tile'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"ceramic tile/a'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"ceramic tile/a'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"ceramic tile/a. This is the area that comprises my a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=home%20office" onmouseover="window.status='a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=home%20office" onmouseover="window.status='a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=home%20office" onmouseover="window.status='home office'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"home office/a'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"home office/a'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"home office/a. *Lower level* of your house? So you had your basement tiled. Why not just say so. And it sounds like your first quote was off base. I would guess even a non union company would have beat it. What is so special about laying tile that you need to be union? Just my guess: How about the presence of formal training (apprenticeship) arrangements? That means something. Otherwise, you could end up hiring someone who, after discovering they were pretty good at it after doing their own home, decided to open a business. Union tilesetters undergo a formal, three-year apprenticeship program. A lot of that training has to do with the safe handling of various chemicals that are rarely, if ever, used during tilesetting or maintenance in single-family homes. Pure bull****. Very few union tilesetters work single-family residential, although I have foudn the crews I've hired in my minor-league homebuilding ventures to be more skilled and efficient than the non-union crews. It is kind of humorous that Hertvik is commenting here...if you saw a photo of his house, you'd conclude that no one with a sense of design, taste or construction skill was involved...but, hey, taste is subjective,eh? We have a 4,000 square foot house constructed in 1992. If you have a picture to post please do. I have no idea how you would have obtained it, but as you have been stalking me recently I guess nothing is beyond belief with you. Tile setting is not difficult. No need for a 3 year apprenticeship program unless one is mentally challenged. As usual, you are wrong. Dead wrong. Look below, taken from http://www.calmis.cahwnet.gov/file/occguide/TILESET.HTM ENTRANCE REQUIREMENTS AND TRAINING Tile Setters usually begin as helpers until they enter an apprenticeship program. After completing a three or four-year program that includes both practical and classroom education, the apprentice can advance to full journey-level status. An apprenticeship program usually consists of on-the-job training and related classroom instruction in blueprint reading, layout, and basic mathematics. To become an apprentice, a candidate must be at least 18 years old and be physically able to perform the work of the trade. Good vision, color perception, and manual dexterity are important assets. Though there are no formal educational requirements, employers usually prefer high school graduates. Job applicants should know basic math and be able to read and write. Helpful high school classes include shop and mechanical drawing. The ability to read blueprints is also a desirable skill. In areas where there are no union apprenticeship programs, many Tile Setters acquire skills informally by working as helpers to experienced workers. So, as you can see, you, again, don't have a damned clue what you are talking about. I never disputed the fact that they had a 3 year apprenticeship, only that the trade is certainly not one requiring 3 years of training as tile setting is not a skilled trade imo. Try reading for content next time and stick to the issue 'Bassy. Asslicker ought to read his own posts...... "In areas where there are no union apprenticeship programs, many Tile Setters acquire skills informally by working as helpers to experienced workers." Pretty much sums up your point that there is no NEED for an apprenticeship program. ONce again, asslicker shows why he retains the crown as "King of the NG idiots" What to **** do you think that "working as helpers to experienced workers" is, anyway???? Do you argue with people just for the sake of arguing with them? Care to answer the question? YOU are the one arguing. I asked a question. |
"basskisser" wrote in message m... "JimH" wrote in message ... "basskisser" atl_man2@a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=yahoo%20com" onmouseover="window.status='yahoo.com'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"yahoo.com/a wrote in message om... "P.Fritz" wrote in message ... "JimH" wrote in message ... "basskisser" atl_man2@a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=yahoo%20com" onmouseover="window.status='yahoo.com'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"yahoo.com/a wrote in message om... "JimH" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" piedtypecase@a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=yahoo%20com" onmouseover="window.status='yahoo.com'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"yahoo.com/a wrote in message ... Doug Kanter wrote: "JimH" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... This week, we had about 1000 square feet of the lower level of our house tiled in a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=ceramic%20tile" onmouseover="window.status='a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=ceramic%20tile" onmouseover="window.status='a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=ceramic%20tile" onmouseover="window.status='ceramic tile'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"ceramic tile/a'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"ceramic tile/a'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"ceramic tile/a. This is the area that comprises my a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=home%20office" onmouseover="window.status='a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=home%20office" onmouseover="window.status='a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=home%20office" onmouseover="window.status='home office'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"home office/a'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"home office/a'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"home office/a. *Lower level* of your house? So you had your basement tiled. Why not just say so. And it sounds like your first quote was off base. I would guess even a non union company would have beat it. What is so special about laying tile that you need to be union? Just my guess: How about the presence of formal training (apprenticeship) arrangements? That means something. Otherwise, you could end up hiring someone who, after discovering they were pretty good at it after doing their own home, decided to open a business. Union tilesetters undergo a formal, three-year apprenticeship program. A lot of that training has to do with the safe handling of various chemicals that are rarely, if ever, used during tilesetting or maintenance in single-family homes. Pure bull****. Very few union tilesetters work single-family residential, although I have foudn the crews I've hired in my minor-league homebuilding ventures to be more skilled and efficient than the non-union crews. It is kind of humorous that Hertvik is commenting here...if you saw a photo of his house, you'd conclude that no one with a sense of design, taste or construction skill was involved...but, hey, taste is subjective,eh? We have a 4,000 square foot house constructed in 1992. If you have a picture to post please do. I have no idea how you would have obtained it, but as you have been stalking me recently I guess nothing is beyond belief with you. Tile setting is not difficult. No need for a 3 year apprenticeship program unless one is mentally challenged. As usual, you are wrong. Dead wrong. Look below, taken from http://www.calmis.cahwnet.gov/file/occguide/TILESET.HTM ENTRANCE REQUIREMENTS AND TRAINING Tile Setters usually begin as helpers until they enter an apprenticeship program. After completing a three or four-year program that includes both practical and classroom education, the apprentice can advance to full journey-level status. An apprenticeship program usually consists of on-the-job training and related classroom instruction in blueprint reading, layout, and basic mathematics. To become an apprentice, a candidate must be at least 18 years old and be physically able to perform the work of the trade. Good vision, color perception, and manual dexterity are important assets. Though there are no formal educational requirements, employers usually prefer high school graduates. Job applicants should know basic math and be able to read and write. Helpful high school classes include shop and mechanical drawing. The ability to read blueprints is also a desirable skill. In areas where there are no union apprenticeship programs, many Tile Setters acquire skills informally by working as helpers to experienced workers. So, as you can see, you, again, don't have a damned clue what you are talking about. I never disputed the fact that they had a 3 year apprenticeship, only that the trade is certainly not one requiring 3 years of training as tile setting is not a skilled trade imo. Try reading for content next time and stick to the issue 'Bassy. Asslicker ought to read his own posts...... "In areas where there are no union apprenticeship programs, many Tile Setters acquire skills informally by working as helpers to experienced workers." Pretty much sums up your point that there is no NEED for an apprenticeship program. ONce again, asslicker shows why he retains the crown as "King of the NG idiots" What to **** do you think that "working as helpers to experienced workers" is, anyway???? Do you argue with people just for the sake of arguing with them? Care to answer the question? YOU are the one arguing. I asked a question. LOL! |
"JimH" wrote in message ... "basskisser" wrote in message m... "JimH" wrote in message ... "basskisser" atl_man2@a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=yahoo%20com" onmouseover="window.status='yahoo.com'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"yahoo.com/a wrote in message om... "P.Fritz" wrote in message ... "JimH" wrote in message ... "basskisser" atl_man2@a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=yahoo%20com" onmouseover="window.status='yahoo.com'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"yahoo.com/a wrote in message om... "JimH" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" piedtypecase@a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=yahoo%20com" onmouseover="window.status='yahoo.com'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"yahoo.com/a wrote in message ... Doug Kanter wrote: "JimH" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... This week, we had about 1000 square feet of the lower level of our house tiled in a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=ceramic%20tile" onmouseover="window.status='a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=ceramic%20tile" onmouseover="window.status='a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=ceramic%20tile" onmouseover="window.status='ceramic tile'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"ceramic tile/a'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"ceramic tile/a'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"ceramic tile/a. This is the area that comprises my a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=home%20office" onmouseover="window.status='a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=home%20office" onmouseover="window.status='a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=home%20office" onmouseover="window.status='home office'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"home office/a'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"home office/a'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"home office/a. *Lower level* of your house? So you had your basement tiled. Why not just say so. And it sounds like your first quote was off base. I would guess even a non union company would have beat it. What is so special about laying tile that you need to be union? Just my guess: How about the presence of formal training (apprenticeship) arrangements? That means something. Otherwise, you could end up hiring someone who, after discovering they were pretty good at it after doing their own home, decided to open a business. Union tilesetters undergo a formal, three-year apprenticeship program. A lot of that training has to do with the safe handling of various chemicals that are rarely, if ever, used during tilesetting or maintenance in single-family homes. Pure bull****. Very few union tilesetters work single-family residential, although I have foudn the crews I've hired in my minor-league homebuilding ventures to be more skilled and efficient than the non-union crews. It is kind of humorous that Hertvik is commenting here...if you saw a photo of his house, you'd conclude that no one with a sense of design, taste or construction skill was involved...but, hey, taste is subjective,eh? We have a 4,000 square foot house constructed in 1992. If you have a picture to post please do. I have no idea how you would have obtained it, but as you have been stalking me recently I guess nothing is beyond belief with you. Tile setting is not difficult. No need for a 3 year apprenticeship program unless one is mentally challenged. As usual, you are wrong. Dead wrong. Look below, taken from http://www.calmis.cahwnet.gov/file/occguide/TILESET.HTM ENTRANCE REQUIREMENTS AND TRAINING Tile Setters usually begin as helpers until they enter an apprenticeship program. After completing a three or four-year program that includes both practical and classroom education, the apprentice can advance to full journey-level status. An apprenticeship program usually consists of on-the-job training and related classroom instruction in blueprint reading, layout, and basic mathematics. To become an apprentice, a candidate must be at least 18 years old and be physically able to perform the work of the trade. Good vision, color perception, and manual dexterity are important assets. Though there are no formal educational requirements, employers usually prefer high school graduates. Job applicants should know basic math and be able to read and write. Helpful high school classes include shop and mechanical drawing. The ability to read blueprints is also a desirable skill. In areas where there are no union apprenticeship programs, many Tile Setters acquire skills informally by working as helpers to experienced workers. So, as you can see, you, again, don't have a damned clue what you are talking about. I never disputed the fact that they had a 3 year apprenticeship, only that the trade is certainly not one requiring 3 years of training as tile setting is not a skilled trade imo. Try reading for content next time and stick to the issue 'Bassy. Asslicker ought to read his own posts...... "In areas where there are no union apprenticeship programs, many Tile Setters acquire skills informally by working as helpers to experienced workers." Pretty much sums up your point that there is no NEED for an apprenticeship program. ONce again, asslicker shows why he retains the crown as "King of the NG idiots" What to **** do you think that "working as helpers to experienced workers" is, anyway???? Do you argue with people just for the sake of arguing with them? Care to answer the question? YOU are the one arguing. I asked a question. LOL! What a mar00n.............somebody sell that tree stump a clue. |
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