On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:57:31 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

Sure - this kind of work isn't necessarily exclusive to union workers. But,
when I questioned the shimming & leveling tricks, he said he'd learned it
during 3 years of training with some union guys. If YOU wanted to do that
kind of work, where would you go to learn it? Would you waste time buying
magazines and browsing the web, hoping to find the information, or take the
most direct route to the source of training, which is probably other
workers?

I am probably going to take a lot of flack for this, but I'm not
totally convinced that hiring a Union worker is the best way to go.
My results have been 50/50 with Union trades - I've already told the
story of the two Union masons and their apprentices, so I won't tell
it again.

However, because of somebody near and dear to me, is a union
supporter, worker and member and one of my friends is a IBEW type (as
in bigshot) I often try to hire Union when I need something done. I
have even hired Union Labor - just average joes who are sitting around
the Union hall looking for work.

My observation is that just like every other thing, you get good Union
workers, so-so Union workers and lousy Union workers - more so-so and
lousy than good to outstanding Union workers. That has been my
experience.

We've had a rather interesting situation here in CT of having unions
strike unions for higher pay and benefits than the parent union gives
it's own members - and get them! There is something wrong with that.

I've been in situations where Union work rules just got in the way of
simple tasks that any bozo could do - from electrical cords to
erecting a display booth - silly, stupid things that are only designed
to keep somebody busy.

So I'm ambivalent about unions. If pressed my opinion would be that
the era of big unions has passed on and that a return to local guilds
and trade groups would be more beneficial to the average tradesman or
worker.

Take care.

Tom

"The beatings will stop when morale improves."
E. Teach, 1717

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

I've been in situations where Union work rules just got in the way of
simple tasks that any bozo could do - from electrical cords to
erecting a display booth - silly, stupid things that are only designed
to keep somebody busy.

That stuff's just plain stupid. The audio store where I used to work would
have a booth at the car & boat shows here. The convention center rep gave us
a speech about how we weren't supposed to plug in our equipment. An
electrician had to do it. Once, one of us wired a fat car amp to the display
speakers with 18 gauge speaker wire. The boss told him to use the fancy
Monster Cable. Someone came over and said we had to wait for an electrician.
He turned out to be wrong (because it didn't involve an AC line), but the
guy still acted like the world was about to end.

The funny thing is that we were all installers with 10 years' of experience.
The electrician probably would've burned his car down installing some of
that stuff.

Speaking of which, we once had a car come in for repair. The old lady said
the radio kept cutting off & on. It was an aftermarket unit. When I got
under the dash, I found all sorts of nasty stuff, obviously the work of a
slob. I cleaned it all up in about 10 minutes. Then, I told the lady
"Whoever did this was a real hack. Totally incompetent. Don't let him touch
your car again". She gives me this look and says "My son did it, and I'll
have you know he's an engineer with NASA".

Oh boy. I didn't charge her. :-)

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:07:34 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .

I've been in situations where Union work rules just got in the way of
simple tasks that any bozo could do - from electrical cords to
erecting a display booth - silly, stupid things that are only designed
to keep somebody busy.

That stuff's just plain stupid. The audio store where I used to work would
have a booth at the car & boat shows here. The convention center rep gave us
a speech about how we weren't supposed to plug in our equipment. An
electrician had to do it. Once, one of us wired a fat car amp to the display
speakers with 18 gauge speaker wire. The boss told him to use the fancy
Monster Cable. Someone came over and said we had to wait for an electrician.
He turned out to be wrong (because it didn't involve an AC line), but the
guy still acted like the world was about to end.

The funny thing is that we were all installers with 10 years' of experience.
The electrician probably would've burned his car down installing some of
that stuff.

Speaking of which, we once had a car come in for repair. The old lady said
the radio kept cutting off & on. It was an aftermarket unit. When I got
under the dash, I found all sorts of nasty stuff, obviously the work of a
slob. I cleaned it all up in about 10 minutes. Then, I told the lady
"Whoever did this was a real hack. Totally incompetent. Don't let him touch
your car again". She gives me this look and says "My son did it, and I'll
have you know he's an engineer with NASA".

Oh boy. I didn't charge her. :-)

Some day we'll have to get together over pizza and swap stories about
engineers and other highly skilled technical people. :)

I've got a ton of them.

All the best,

Tom
--------------

"What the hell's the deal with this newsgroup...
is there a computer terminal in the day room of
some looney bin somewhere?"

Bilgeman - circa 2004

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:07:34 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in
message
.. .

I've been in situations where Union work rules just got in the way of
simple tasks that any bozo could do - from electrical cords to
erecting a display booth - silly, stupid things that are only designed
to keep somebody busy.

That stuff's just plain stupid. The audio store where I used to work
would
have a booth at the car & boat shows here. The convention center rep gave
us
a speech about how we weren't supposed to plug in our equipment. An
electrician had to do it. Once, one of us wired a fat car amp to the
display
speakers with 18 gauge speaker wire. The boss told him to use the fancy
Monster Cable. Someone came over and said we had to wait for an
electrician.
He turned out to be wrong (because it didn't involve an AC line), but the
guy still acted like the world was about to end.

The funny thing is that we were all installers with 10 years' of
experience.
The electrician probably would've burned his car down installing some of
that stuff.

Speaking of which, we once had a car come in for repair. The old lady
said
the radio kept cutting off & on. It was an aftermarket unit. When I got
under the dash, I found all sorts of nasty stuff, obviously the work of a
slob. I cleaned it all up in about 10 minutes. Then, I told the lady
"Whoever did this was a real hack. Totally incompetent. Don't let him
touch
your car again". She gives me this look and says "My son did it, and I'll
have you know he's an engineer with NASA".

Oh boy. I didn't charge her. :-)

Some day we'll have to get together over pizza and swap stories about
engineers and other highly skilled technical people. :)

I've got a ton of them.

I require anchovies.

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:16:19 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:07:34 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in
message
.. .

I've been in situations where Union work rules just got in the way of
simple tasks that any bozo could do - from electrical cords to
erecting a display booth - silly, stupid things that are only designed
to keep somebody busy.

That stuff's just plain stupid. The audio store where I used to work
would
have a booth at the car & boat shows here. The convention center rep gave
us
a speech about how we weren't supposed to plug in our equipment. An
electrician had to do it. Once, one of us wired a fat car amp to the
display
speakers with 18 gauge speaker wire. The boss told him to use the fancy
Monster Cable. Someone came over and said we had to wait for an
electrician.
He turned out to be wrong (because it didn't involve an AC line), but the
guy still acted like the world was about to end.

The funny thing is that we were all installers with 10 years' of
experience.
The electrician probably would've burned his car down installing some of
that stuff.

Speaking of which, we once had a car come in for repair. The old lady
said
the radio kept cutting off & on. It was an aftermarket unit. When I got
under the dash, I found all sorts of nasty stuff, obviously the work of a
slob. I cleaned it all up in about 10 minutes. Then, I told the lady
"Whoever did this was a real hack. Totally incompetent. Don't let him
touch
your car again". She gives me this look and says "My son did it, and I'll
have you know he's an engineer with NASA".

Oh boy. I didn't charge her. :-)

Some day we'll have to get together over pizza and swap stories about
engineers and other highly skilled technical people. :)

I've got a ton of them.

I require anchovies.

You can have anything you want on yours.

Later,

Tom

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...


I've been in situations where Union work rules just got in the way of
simple tasks that any bozo could do - from electrical cords to
erecting a display booth - silly, stupid things that are only designed
to keep somebody busy.


Like a girls volleyball tournament that was held at the Philadelphia
Convention Center.

Following quoted from Philadelphia Daily News:

Its organizers can set up a complete volleyball court in an hour or less
with eight 14-year-old girls. But not in our Convention Center. Here, it
took six union laborers two hours a court at a cost of $65 per person
per hour. Because the four barrels holding down the volleyball poles are
filled with water, in Philadelphia this means you involve two plumbers
for two hours each to fill and place the four barrels needed for each court.

The bottom line: $135,000 for 30 courts as compared to $15,000 for 54
courts in Baltimore!

"John P Reber" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in
message
...


I've been in situations where Union work rules just got in the way of
simple tasks that any bozo could do - from electrical cords to
erecting a display booth - silly, stupid things that are only designed
to keep somebody busy.


Like a girls volleyball tournament that was held at the Philadelphia
Convention Center.

Following quoted from Philadelphia Daily News:

Its organizers can set up a complete volleyball court in an hour or less
with eight 14-year-old girls. But not in our Convention Center. Here, it
took six union laborers two hours a court at a cost of $65 per person per
hour. Because the four barrels holding down the volleyball poles are
filled with water, in Philadelphia this means you involve two plumbers for
two hours each to fill and place the four barrels needed for each court.

The bottom line: $135,000 for 30 courts as compared to $15,000 for 54
courts in Baltimore!

But didn't you know that the union guys spent 3 years learning about the
hazards of water? And Harry would argue that they filled the barrels with
water better than a non union person could.