My mate and I are considering purchasing a 22' or 23' Chaparral runabout. I
was just on a business trip on the east coast and priced the SSi220 and it
was $5,000 less than in Arizona where we live.

So I get back home and the local dealer tell me the profit margin on the
boat is only 20% and he has discounted 15% and can't go any lower.

I don't mind paying anyone in business a fair profit but I would like the
truth - does any one know how much profit are in these boats?

Konnie

I don't mind paying anyone in business a fair profit but I would like the
truth - does any one know how much profit are in these boats?

Konnie

Not enough.

My suggestion: Forget all about trying to
buy a boat like an automobile. Don't worry about whether the dealer is making
$1, $100, $1000, or $10000. Shop around enough to get the *best price* (all
factors considered) that will lift the minimal number of dollars from your
wallet and then just simply enjoy the boat. Why be peeved because the gross
profit might have been more than you (surely missing some important factors in
the equation) considered "fair"? The consumers objective is to find the lowest
price, not the smallest profit. :-)

Good luck. Hope you enjoy your boat.

Be very careful what the dealers tell you. I can only speak from experience
from the dealers in my area. I wouldn't trust any of them. They are salesmen
and will maximize their profits. Find the boat you like, model number,
engine and all that comes with it including the covers, life jackets,
paddles, trailer etc etc. Call all the other dealers, get a quote on exact
same deal. Go online and email all the dealers. Let them know you are
quoting from here to Moscow and the hungry one will give you a price, then
take that price to your nearest dealer, ask them to beat it by 10%. They
will cry a bit, but will realize they will deliver it, service it, and let
them have the honor of selling you your boat. But stand behind your guns,
they will say this and that and cry broke as they drive off their property
in their Cadillac, but just stand behind your gun. I am guessing the profit
margins on a boat are around 20% if not a little more. I think a fair profit
margin would be 3 to 5%. Don't forget by you buying a boat, the end user,
there will be a long line in the supply chain of that boat that have a lot
of hungry hands out. If you squeeze the dealer, he squeezes his agent, who
squeezes the next guy who squeezes on your behalf the manufacture. Those
manufactured suggested retail prices are just that, suggested and there are
a lot of suckers who pay full pop. They make enough margins, your right.




"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
I don't mind paying anyone in business a fair profit but I would like the
truth - does any one know how much profit are in these boats?

Konnie

Not enough.

My suggestion: Forget all about trying to
buy a boat like an automobile. Don't worry about whether the dealer is
making
$1, $100, $1000, or $10000. Shop around enough to get the *best price*
(all
factors considered) that will lift the minimal number of dollars from your
wallet and then just simply enjoy the boat. Why be peeved because the
gross
profit might have been more than you (surely missing some important
factors in
the equation) considered "fair"? The consumers objective is to find the
lowest
price, not the smallest profit. :-)

Good luck. Hope you enjoy your boat.

Tuuk wrote:

Be very careful what the dealers tell you. I can only speak from experience
from the dealers in my area. I wouldn't trust any of them.


Another right-winger speaks out against the American system of selling
big-ticket items.

--
Email sent to is never read.

I think a fair profit
margin would be 3 to 5%.

3 to 5%?

Find a likely tree.
Break out fire and chisel.
Make your own dugout canoe.
That's all that would be left of the boat business at a true 3-5% margin.

The boat business is *not* the automobile business. One of the major missing
factors is volume. When I was in the car business,
it wasn't unusual for my single, medium size dealership to crank out 1000 new
cars in a year. There are a lot of manufacturers that don't sell 1000 boats in
a year, nationwide. Probably most.

When comparison shopping, it is well to remember that there is a value
associated with being considered a preferred customer- rather than the cheap
screw who beat the last $50 out of the deal and even *then* bought a boat 200
miles away.

It's important to weigh all factors when deciding on the best price. Some
dealers can offer more value than others, even while selling the exact same
product and options.

" Tuuk" wrote in message ...
Be very careful what the dealers tell you. I can only speak from experience
from the dealers in my area. I wouldn't trust any of them. They are salesmen
and will maximize their profits. Find the boat you like, model number,
engine and all that comes with it including the covers, life jackets,
paddles, trailer etc etc. Call all the other dealers, get a quote on exact
same deal. Go online and email all the dealers. Let them know you are
quoting from here to Moscow and the hungry one will give you a price, then
take that price to your nearest dealer, ask them to beat it by 10%. They
will cry a bit, but will realize they will deliver it, service it, and let
them have the honor of selling you your boat. But stand behind your guns,
they will say this and that and cry broke as they drive off their property
in their Cadillac, but just stand behind your gun. I am guessing the profit
margins on a boat are around 20% if not a little more. I think a fair profit
margin would be 3 to 5%. Don't forget by you buying a boat, the end user,
there will be a long line in the supply chain of that boat that have a lot
of hungry hands out. If you squeeze the dealer, he squeezes his agent, who
squeezes the next guy who squeezes on your behalf the manufacture. Those
manufactured suggested retail prices are just that, suggested and there are
a lot of suckers who pay full pop. They make enough margins, your right.

For Christ's sake. Just make your best deal.

You are displaying the same ingnorance that I hear, even from some
people that work for me, over what profit is. Seem to think that
anything over what the dealer pays is "profit". That's my favorite
line about mark-ups being *PURE*PROFIT*

No. It's margin. We refer to it where I work as operating margin. I
would be out of business in a heartbeat if I only had a 3%-5%
operating margin on what I sell. You think the difference between
what the dealer pays and what he sells for is just going into his
swiss bank acount?

So what if the guy if the guy drives a Caddilac? Doesn't a boat
dealer (even a boat salesman) have a right to make a good living -
just like you?

"Hey! You could give me a better deal on this boat if you were
driving a Yugo. I'll take my business elsewhere!"

I am not saying that you have an obligation to pay more than you want
to. You can walk away from any deal YOU THINK is unfair. Make your
best deal. Find the guy that will sell you the boat at the cheapest
price and give you the service you want/need. But spare us any
definition of "fair" profit - there is no such thing - Especially on
luxury items like boats.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
I don't mind paying anyone in business a fair profit but I would like the
truth - does any one know how much profit are in these boats?

Konnie

Not enough.

My suggestion: Forget all about trying to
buy a boat like an automobile. Don't worry about whether the dealer is
making
$1, $100, $1000, or $10000. Shop around enough to get the *best price*
(all
factors considered) that will lift the minimal number of dollars from your
wallet and then just simply enjoy the boat. Why be peeved because the
gross
profit might have been more than you (surely missing some important
factors in
the equation) considered "fair"? The consumers objective is to find the
lowest
price, not the smallest profit. :-)

Good luck. Hope you enjoy your boat.

Yes there is such a thing as "Fair Profit" , I understand the terms margins,
operating margins, profit margins, etc etc. But it has been known since the
beginning of time that once you own a boat, all parts, simply because they
are "marine" parts are priced way out of wack. So I do not understand why
you defend such a gouging practice. Just because someone can afford a boat,
doesn't mean everyone can afford a boat. I understand you targeting that
corporate executive who keeps his/her boat down there at the yacht club and
calls ahead for the marina guy to have his boat all fueled up and ready for
turn key and go. All cleaned up and maintained. Yes, you can rape that
person. But for the most part, that is a profit strategy that you boat
dealers use overall. I had to once buy a water pump for an old OMC 165hp
I/O. Now the marina told me it was 300 dollars because it had a bronze
impeller, the automotive dealer told me he could supply me with an exact
pump as my sample which was cast iron impeller for 25 dollars with swap. I
chose the marina because I am always in salt water. I picked it up at the
marina and it had a cast iron impeller, the marina purchased it from the
same auto guy I spoke to and turned around and charged me the OMC 300 dollar
price. Of course I told him what he could do with the pump, he sent it back
to the auto parts guy where I purchased it for 25 dollars, same price he
purchased it for, or he probably got a discount, that is fair.
You dealers are doing this steady, your margins are high, and due to
globalization and internet shopping, your forced to be more efficient and
add more value. Now you don't like it so you cry the blues. Hey, if you
cannot run your business ethically and profitably then why are you in the
business. Go sell flowers or something. But do not badmouth the consumer who
doesn't want to be raped by you and know it.







"Curtis CCR" wrote in message
m...
" Tuuk" wrote in message
...
Be very careful what the dealers tell you. I can only speak from
experience
from the dealers in my area. I wouldn't trust any of them. They are
salesmen
and will maximize their profits. Find the boat you like, model number,
engine and all that comes with it including the covers, life jackets,
paddles, trailer etc etc. Call all the other dealers, get a quote on
exact
same deal. Go online and email all the dealers. Let them know you are
quoting from here to Moscow and the hungry one will give you a price,
then
take that price to your nearest dealer, ask them to beat it by 10%. They
will cry a bit, but will realize they will deliver it, service it, and
let
them have the honor of selling you your boat. But stand behind your
guns,
they will say this and that and cry broke as they drive off their
property
in their Cadillac, but just stand behind your gun. I am guessing the
profit
margins on a boat are around 20% if not a little more. I think a fair
profit
margin would be 3 to 5%. Don't forget by you buying a boat, the end
user,
there will be a long line in the supply chain of that boat that have a
lot
of hungry hands out. If you squeeze the dealer, he squeezes his agent,
who
squeezes the next guy who squeezes on your behalf the manufacture. Those
manufactured suggested retail prices are just that, suggested and there
are
a lot of suckers who pay full pop. They make enough margins, your right.

For Christ's sake. Just make your best deal.

You are displaying the same ingnorance that I hear, even from some
people that work for me, over what profit is. Seem to think that
anything over what the dealer pays is "profit". That's my favorite
line about mark-ups being *PURE*PROFIT*

No. It's margin. We refer to it where I work as operating margin. I
would be out of business in a heartbeat if I only had a 3%-5%
operating margin on what I sell. You think the difference between
what the dealer pays and what he sells for is just going into his
swiss bank acount?

So what if the guy if the guy drives a Caddilac? Doesn't a boat
dealer (even a boat salesman) have a right to make a good living -
just like you?

"Hey! You could give me a better deal on this boat if you were
driving a Yugo. I'll take my business elsewhere!"

I am not saying that you have an obligation to pay more than you want
to. You can walk away from any deal YOU THINK is unfair. Make your
best deal. Find the guy that will sell you the boat at the cheapest
price and give you the service you want/need. But spare us any
definition of "fair" profit - there is no such thing - Especially on
luxury items like boats.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
I don't mind paying anyone in business a fair profit but I would like
the
truth - does any one know how much profit are in these boats?

Konnie

Not enough.

My suggestion: Forget all about trying to
buy a boat like an automobile. Don't worry about whether the dealer is
making
$1, $100, $1000, or $10000. Shop around enough to get the *best price*
(all
factors considered) that will lift the minimal number of dollars from
your
wallet and then just simply enjoy the boat. Why be peeved because the
gross
profit might have been more than you (surely missing some important
factors in
the equation) considered "fair"? The consumers objective is to find
the
lowest
price, not the smallest profit. :-)

Good luck. Hope you enjoy your boat.

" Tuuk" wrote in message ...
Yes there is such a thing as "Fair Profit"

On a boat? Bull****. The guy is entitled to make as much money as he
can by selling a boat. He is under no obligation to sell you a boat
at less than his asking price any more than you are under any
obliagtion to buy the boat at any price. If the next customer through
the door is willing to pay a price the dealer will accept, even if
it's 25% percent over cost, then it's fair.

I understand the terms margins,
operating margins, profit margins, etc etc.

Tuuk" wrote in . net..."I am guessing the profit margins on a boat are around 20% if not a little more. I think a fair profit margin would be 3 to 5%..."

....leads me to believe you don't understand at all.

A 3% to 5% margin would probably leave a lot of dealers in the red
after after expenses are paid. If you can find a dealer with the
volume and overhead structure that allows him to sell it to you for 3%
over his cost, by all means buy the boat. But don't try to tell me
he's making 3% profit on it. Profit is what the business owners get
to keep in their pockets as personal enrichment. He'd probably like
to keep making his Cadallac payment as much as you want a boat.

But it has been known since the
beginning of time that once you own a boat, all parts, simply because they
are "marine" parts are priced way out of wack. So I do not understand why
you defend such a gouging practice.

Both of those sentences are untrue.

All parts are not more expensive simply because they are "marine"
parts. Certain parts cost more for very good reason. They may be
specially built for a specific marine application (less likely to
corrode, blow up). Other parts may simply be marked up because people
will pay it. Many parts are no more expensive.

If you don't want to buy the marine part, go to the auto parts store,
or hardware store for you items instead of the local marine dealer or
chandelry.

The other day, I blew a fuse in my car. Maybe 50 cents at an auto
parts store. Because I didn't want to drive an additional 20 minute
(round trip) to the closet auto parts store I went to the West Marine
that's a block from my office and paid $2 for two fuses. Same fuse as
the one that blew - nothing special. Probably made by the same
company that makes the one at the auto parts store - just repackaged
under a marine brand name. I didn't have to pay the higher price - I
chose too. Likewise if I needed that same fuse on the boat, I could
have purchased it for 50 cents at the auto store (and I have).

Just because someone can afford a boat,
doesn't mean everyone can afford a boat.

And you're not entitle to a boat. So if you can't afford one, don't
get one.

I understand you targeting that
corporate executive who keeps his/her boat down there at the yacht club and
calls ahead for the marina guy to have his boat all fueled up and ready for
turn key and go. All cleaned up and maintained. Yes, you can rape that
person.

So a boat price should be based on the size of the buyer's checkbook?
I smell another damned political thread startin here.

But for the most part, that is a profit strategy that you boat
dealers use overall.

What the hell makes you think I am boat dealer. My only connection
with the boating industry is as a customer.

I had to once buy a water pump for an old OMC 165hp
I/O. Now the marina told me it was 300 dollars because it had a bronze
impeller, the automotive dealer told me he could supply me with an exact
pump as my sample which was cast iron impeller for 25 dollars with swap. I
chose the marina because I am always in salt water. I picked it up at the
marina and it had a cast iron impeller, the marina purchased it from the
same auto guy I spoke to and turned around and charged me the OMC 300 dollar
price. Of course I told him what he could do with the pump, he sent it back
to the auto parts guy where I purchased it for 25 dollars, same price he
purchased it for, or he probably got a discount, that is fair.

Yeah. That's fair. And if you felt you needed that bronze impellor
you were more than welcome to shop around for it. If you decide that
the $25 automotive pump was suitable, then you paid the same price
whether it was going in a boat or a car.

This individual case you described as nothing to do with profit
margin. That marina dealer was probably committing fraud. Trying to
sell you something that wasn't was he said it was.

You dealers are doing this steady, your margins are high, and due to
globalization and internet shopping, your forced to be more efficient and
add more value. Now you don't like it so you cry the blues.

Who's crying? Sound like you are. "My boat parts are soooo
expensive.... boooo hoooo." "The boat dealer is driving a nice car.
He must be ripping me off. Boooo Hooooo. It's not faaaair!"

So go buy your boat on the internet.

Hey, if you
cannot run your business ethically and profitably then why are you in the
business.

There is nothing unethical about a business making a profit. Nothing
unethical about selling boat at 20% margin.

I don't think it's ethical to call someone a rapist just because he
won't price his products at a loss or break even.

Go sell flowers or something.

You'd probably bitch about the raping you took at the flower shop too.

But do not badmouth the consumer who
doesn't want to be raped by you and know it.

You gotta a thing about "rape"?

Even using it metaphorically, it isn't rape if you can say "no" and
walk away. Never heard of a dealer forcing someone to buy a boat.

"Curtis CCR" wrote in message
m...
" Tuuk" wrote in message
...
Be very careful what the dealers tell you. I can only speak from
experience
from the dealers in my area. I wouldn't trust any of them. They are
salesmen
and will maximize their profits. Find the boat you like, model number,
engine and all that comes with it including the covers, life jackets,
paddles, trailer etc etc. Call all the other dealers, get a quote on
exact
same deal. Go online and email all the dealers. Let them know you are
quoting from here to Moscow and the hungry one will give you a price,
then
take that price to your nearest dealer, ask them to beat it by 10%. They
will cry a bit, but will realize they will deliver it, service it, and
let
them have the honor of selling you your boat. But stand behind your
guns,
they will say this and that and cry broke as they drive off their
property
in their Cadillac, but just stand behind your gun. I am guessing the
profit
margins on a boat are around 20% if not a little more. I think a fair
profit
margin would be 3 to 5%. Don't forget by you buying a boat, the end
user,
there will be a long line in the supply chain of that boat that have a
lot
of hungry hands out. If you squeeze the dealer, he squeezes his agent,
who
squeezes the next guy who squeezes on your behalf the manufacture. Those
manufactured suggested retail prices are just that, suggested and there
are
a lot of suckers who pay full pop. They make enough margins, your right.

For Christ's sake. Just make your best deal.

You are displaying the same ingnorance that I hear, even from some
people that work for me, over what profit is. Seem to think that
anything over what the dealer pays is "profit". That's my favorite
line about mark-ups being *PURE*PROFIT*

No. It's margin. We refer to it where I work as operating margin. I
would be out of business in a heartbeat if I only had a 3%-5%
operating margin on what I sell. You think the difference between
what the dealer pays and what he sells for is just going into his
swiss bank acount?

So what if the guy if the guy drives a Caddilac? Doesn't a boat
dealer (even a boat salesman) have a right to make a good living -
just like you?

"Hey! You could give me a better deal on this boat if you were
driving a Yugo. I'll take my business elsewhere!"

I am not saying that you have an obligation to pay more than you want
to. You can walk away from any deal YOU THINK is unfair. Make your
best deal. Find the guy that will sell you the boat at the cheapest
price and give you the service you want/need. But spare us any
definition of "fair" profit - there is no such thing - Especially on
luxury items like boats.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
I don't mind paying anyone in business a fair profit but I would like
the
truth - does any one know how much profit are in these boats?

Konnie

Not enough.

My suggestion: Forget all about trying to
buy a boat like an automobile. Don't worry about whether the dealer is
making
$1, $100, $1000, or $10000. Shop around enough to get the *best price*
(all
factors considered) that will lift the minimal number of dollars from
your
wallet and then just simply enjoy the boat. Why be peeved because the
gross
profit might have been more than you (surely missing some important
factors in
the equation) considered "fair"? The consumers objective is to find
the
lowest
price, not the smallest profit. :-)

Good luck. Hope you enjoy your boat.

"Konnie" wrote in message

My mate and I are considering purchasing a 22' or 23' Chaparral runabout.

At whatever price, arrange to take delivery 'launch ready' at least 60 to 90
days before you anticipate your true boating season to begin. Based on my
reading of this and other boating fora, it will take at least that long to
resolve warranty claims with a new boat.

JG

You've been reading some bad fora. Early problems are usually due to
dealer set-up and rigging and are easily remedied. Warranty issues become
apparent over the first couple of boating seasons and require more extensive
solutions.
My 2001 model suffered a shift problem that under went several reasonable
"fixes". This summer I decided I had reached the end of my rope. I now have
a new 2004 outboard with a full 3 year warranty.

"John Gaquin" wrote in message
...

"Konnie" wrote in message

My mate and I are considering purchasing a 22' or 23' Chaparral runabout.

At whatever price, arrange to take delivery 'launch ready' at least 60 to 90
days before you anticipate your true boating season to begin. Based on my
reading of this and other boating fora, it will take at least that long to
resolve warranty claims with a new boat.

JG