junnie, abject stupidity is a troubling social issue. There are people in this
world who believe your parents should have been sterilized before age ten
because of it, while others (I am not one of them) who believe that people like
you should be helped to your earlier-than-societal-normal destination yet
earlier yet.

Gene Kearns
Date: 10/12/2004 7:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 12 Oct 2004 00:24:58 -0700, (BenC) wrote:

manufacturers of engine oil products all use sae specifications. this
is to mainly present a level playing field. when making, buying,
selling, choosing an oil product.
here is a website that explains how/why, buy the material, interesting
read.
http://www.sae.org/servlets/productD...D=J2227_200204

here is a website that the first is referring to "manufacturers specs"
omg its a marine company.

http://accessorycatalogue.penta.volvo.se/catalogue.asp

please dont let jax lead you through a conversation. his replies are
vitriolic and misleading.

Don't I know. That is essentially why I told him to "look it up."
...which he won't, of course. He'll just post some oblique response
hoping "here we go again."

Funny thing is, it is my election whether we go or not... and that
drives him nuts....

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

hoary, let one of these fumb duck "experts" waddle around in google for several
hours and they will eventually post some nonsence that plainly shows just the
opposite of what they claim is reality. Or, at best, they quote some other
fumb duck.

Harry Krause
Date: 10/12/2004 7:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

Gene Kearns wrote:
On 12 Oct 2004 00:24:58 -0700, (BenC) wrote:


manufacturers of engine oil products all use sae specifications. this
is to mainly present a level playing field. when making, buying,
selling, choosing an oil product.
here is a website that explains how/why, buy the material, interesting
read.
http://www.sae.org/servlets/productD...D=J2227_200204

here is a website that the first is referring to "manufacturers specs"
omg its a marine company.

http://accessorycatalogue.penta.volvo.se/catalogue.asp

please dont let jax lead you through a conversation. his replies are
vitriolic and misleading.


Don't I know. That is essentially why I told him to "look it up."
...which he won't, of course. He'll just post some oblique response
hoping "here we go again."

Funny thing is, it is my election whether we go or not... and that
drives him nuts....



When you decide not to, he'll declare victory. It's a characteristic...

rod, are you saying that racers deliberately use poorer quality oil than the
englightened owner of a mercruiser powered bayliner?

Gene Kearns
Date: 10/12/2004 7:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:20:45 -0700, "rmcinnis"
wrote:


"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
news
On 09 Oct 2004 23:34:23 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:


btw, race engine builders still use high price oil and still feel the
money is
well-spent even if you still don't understand why.


Why don't you address the issue. Why do they chose a single weight oil
over multi-viscosity oil?


My experience with race car crews (including the guys that build the
engines) is that they do a LOT of things based on folk lore and "that's just

the way it's done". Don't try looking for a lot of logic from racers, they
are more into superstition than science.

That said, racing presents an entirely different environment for the oil
than recreational or regular automotive. They aren't likely to get 3000
miles on an engine, so they aren't likely to care what the long term
durability of the oil is. What they do care about is how the oil reacts in
high RPM situations. A "racing" oil is formulated to reduce foaming, which
can be a critical issue on a high performance engine. You don't want to run

that in your car or boat, however, unless you intend to change your oil on a

weekly basis.

Rod


If you are going off on that tangent that there are differences in
oils formulated for different purposes, you are going to horribly
upset Jax.... he'll be calling you stupid in no time...


--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

Harry Krause wrote in message ...
Gene Kearns wrote:
On 12 Oct 2004 00:24:58 -0700, (BenC) wrote:


manufacturers of engine oil products all use sae specifications. this
is to mainly present a level playing field. when making, buying,
selling, choosing an oil product.
here is a website that explains how/why, buy the material, interesting
read.
http://www.sae.org/servlets/productD...D=J2227_200204

here is a website that the first is referring to "manufacturers specs"
omg its a marine company.

http://accessorycatalogue.penta.volvo.se/catalogue.asp

please dont let jax lead you through a conversation. his replies are
vitriolic and misleading.


Don't I know. That is essentially why I told him to "look it up."
...which he won't, of course. He'll just post some oblique response
hoping "here we go again."

Funny thing is, it is my election whether we go or not... and that
drives him nuts....



When you decide not to, he'll declare victory. It's a characteristic...

sounds more like a character flaw. he reminds me of a man i knew a few
years ago that was "fiddled" with by his priest at an early age.
bitter on society ever since.

let me guess, ben. you know for a fact the priest used multi-grade oil?

(BenC)
Date: 10/12/2004 9:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

Harry Krause wrote in message
...
Gene Kearns wrote:
On 12 Oct 2004 00:24:58 -0700, (BenC) wrote:


manufacturers of engine oil products all use sae specifications. this
is to mainly present a level playing field. when making, buying,
selling, choosing an oil product.
here is a website that explains how/why, buy the material, interesting
read.

http://www.sae.org/servlets/productD...D=J2227_200204

here is a website that the first is referring to "manufacturers specs"
omg its a marine company.

http://accessorycatalogue.penta.volvo.se/catalogue.asp

please dont let jax lead you through a conversation. his replies are
vitriolic and misleading.


Don't I know. That is essentially why I told him to "look it up."
...which he won't, of course. He'll just post some oblique response
hoping "here we go again."

Funny thing is, it is my election whether we go or not... and that
drives him nuts....



When you decide not to, he'll declare victory. It's a characteristic...

sounds more like a character flaw. he reminds me of a man i knew a few
years ago that was "fiddled" with by his priest at an early age.
bitter on society ever since.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
rod, are you saying that racers deliberately use poorer quality oil than
the
englightened owner of a mercruiser powered bayliner?

Who said the racing oil was poorer quality? I sure didn't. I said that
racers prefer to use an oil formulated for racing because they believe it
won't foam up as bad. Ask the typical racer why standard oil might foam up
and you might really shake your head at the answer. Note that these would
be the same people who tell you that you shouldn't set a battery on the
ground.....

I attended a seminar once that was put on by Pennzoil targeting a group of
race car owner/drivers. This was about 30 years ago so things might have
changed a little, but the gist of what they said back then was that the
racing oil was formulated to withstand higher temperatures and to resist
breakdown if contaminated with Nitromethane or alcohol. It was NOT a
"detergent" oil and they did not recommend it for the family car.

Oh, and in a previous post you said:
" tell us which major oil companies produce oil specifically for
use in 4-cycle gas engines used in a marine environment, and how that oil
differs from the same company's oil produced for the same engines used in
say
highway driving."

I can't tell you how its different, and I suspect that the only difference
is the word "MARINE" on the bottle, but Pennzoil sells a Marine oil.... :
http://www.pennzoil.com/products/mar...ycleHDoil.html


Rod

dont waste your breathe rod. jax' only motivation is to get under your
skin.
he is the resident short bus kid. if he replies its quite possible he
isnt talking to anyone in particular either as the names he uses are
his imaginary friends. anyone that does have intelligent replies are
met only by the semi coherent reply of a lonely old man.




"rmcinnis" wrote in message ...
"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
rod, are you saying that racers deliberately use poorer quality oil than
the
englightened owner of a mercruiser powered bayliner?

Who said the racing oil was poorer quality? I sure didn't. I said that
racers prefer to use an oil formulated for racing because they believe it
won't foam up as bad. Ask the typical racer why standard oil might foam up
and you might really shake your head at the answer. Note that these would
be the same people who tell you that you shouldn't set a battery on the
ground.....

I attended a seminar once that was put on by Pennzoil targeting a group of
race car owner/drivers. This was about 30 years ago so things might have
changed a little, but the gist of what they said back then was that the
racing oil was formulated to withstand higher temperatures and to resist
breakdown if contaminated with Nitromethane or alcohol. It was NOT a
"detergent" oil and they did not recommend it for the family car.

Oh, and in a previous post you said:
" tell us which major oil companies produce oil specifically for
use in 4-cycle gas engines used in a marine environment, and how that oil
differs from the same company's oil produced for the same engines used in
say
highway driving."

I can't tell you how its different, and I suspect that the only difference
is the word "MARINE" on the bottle, but Pennzoil sells a Marine oil.... :
http://www.pennzoil.com/products/mar...ycleHDoil.html


Rod

junnie, go argue with the engine manufacturers. 100 years of experience for
them and you with 1/2 year's experience repeated 18 times.

Gene Kearns
Date: 10/13/2004 5:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:10:30 -0700, "rmcinnis"
wrote:


I can't tell you how its different, and I suspect that the only difference
is the word "MARINE" on the bottle, but Pennzoil sells a Marine oil.... :
http://www.pennzoil.com/products/mar...ycleHDoil.html


It's a shame that you did Jax's homework for him. Now he will never
learn. He won't find the correct figures and post a retraction of his
fallacious argument.

Anyway, since you did, check out the spec sheet for that particular
oil:


http://www.pzlqs.com/Tech/Pdsheet/Do...ils/pdf/Pennzo
ilMarineMotorOil.PDF

Note that the 30W oil has a lower viscosity index at 40 degrees C than
the 10W-40... it pumps quicker. This bears out the folly of what Jax
has been posting about "pumpability" and multi-vis oils. Also, note
that the 40W oil has a higher viscosity at 100 degrees C than the
10W-40... thus, more protection... less likelihood of boundary
lubrication.

Another notable benefit of the single weight oils is higher flash
point.

Note that low temperature pumping and viscosity are only recorded for
the 10W-40 oil.... that is what the "W" means... it has been tested.

The multi-vis oil does have a lower recorded pour point, so for those
of you boating at temperatures less than -38 degrees F, I suggest you
adopt that oil. Otherwise use the straight weight like the
manufacturer suggested...

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

go argue with the engine manufacturers, if you could. they usually don't speak
with engine geniuses who live in 40 year old single wides.

(BenC)
Date: 10/13/2004 9:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

dont waste your breathe rod. jax' only motivation is to get under your
skin.
he is the resident short bus kid. if he replies its quite possible he
isnt talking to anyone in particular either as the names he uses are
his imaginary friends. anyone that does have intelligent replies are
met only by the semi coherent reply of a lonely old man.




"rmcinnis" wrote in message
...
"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
rod, are you saying that racers deliberately use poorer quality oil than
the
englightened owner of a mercruiser powered bayliner?

Who said the racing oil was poorer quality? I sure didn't. I said that
racers prefer to use an oil formulated for racing because they believe it
won't foam up as bad. Ask the typical racer why standard oil might foam up

and you might really shake your head at the answer. Note that these would

be the same people who tell you that you shouldn't set a battery on the
ground.....

I attended a seminar once that was put on by Pennzoil targeting a group of
race car owner/drivers. This was about 30 years ago so things might have
changed a little, but the gist of what they said back then was that the
racing oil was formulated to withstand higher temperatures and to resist
breakdown if contaminated with Nitromethane or alcohol. It was NOT a
"detergent" oil and they did not recommend it for the family car.

Oh, and in a previous post you said:
" tell us which major oil companies produce oil specifically for
use in 4-cycle gas engines used in a marine environment, and how that oil
differs from the same company's oil produced for the same engines used in
say
highway driving."

I can't tell you how its different, and I suspect that the only difference
is the word "MARINE" on the bottle, but Pennzoil sells a Marine oil.... :
http://www.pennzoil.com/products/mar...ycleHDoil.html


Rod

junnie, the manufacturer of the engine used in mercruiser conversations
recommends multi-grade oil. mercruiser is not the engine manufacturer.

"Gene Kearns"
Date: 10/14/2004 9:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 14 Oct 2004 01:22:56 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

junnie, go argue with the engine manufacturers. 100 years of experience for
them and you with 1/2 year's experience repeated 18 times.

Gene Kearns
Date: 10/13/2004 5:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:10:30 -0700, "rmcinnis"
wrote:


I can't tell you how its different, and I suspect that the only difference

is the word "MARINE" on the bottle, but Pennzoil sells a Marine oil.... :

http://www.pennzoil.com/products/mar...ycleHDoil.html


It's a shame that you did Jax's homework for him. Now he will never
learn. He won't find the correct figures and post a retraction of his
fallacious argument.

Anyway, since you did, check out the spec sheet for that particular
oil:


http://www.pzlqs.com/Tech/Pdsheet/Do...ils/pdf/Pennzo
ilMarineMotorOil.PDF

Note that the 30W oil has a lower viscosity index at 40 degrees C than
the 10W-40... it pumps quicker. This bears out the folly of what Jax
has been posting about "pumpability" and multi-vis oils. Also, note
that the 40W oil has a higher viscosity at 100 degrees C than the
10W-40... thus, more protection... less likelihood of boundary
lubrication.

Another notable benefit of the single weight oils is higher flash
point.

Note that low temperature pumping and viscosity are only recorded for
the 10W-40 oil.... that is what the "W" means... it has been tested.

The multi-vis oil does have a lower recorded pour point, so for those
of you boating at temperatures less than -38 degrees F, I suggest you
adopt that oil. Otherwise use the straight weight like the
manufacturer suggested...

What is the last sentence I wrote? I'll give you a hint, it is the
sentence immediately above this one.
--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.linksysnet.com Real Time
Pictures at My Marina
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide